Thread: Your Favourite Clan/Class/Faction

Your Favourite Clan/Class/Faction

  1. #26
    Originally Posted by -Shiro-
    It doesn't surprise me Can you develop your choice about the Rahabim ? It's a character I don't know well.
    He's one of the smartest of the Lieutenants. He's eager to explore and learn and overcome his limitations. He makes wise choices rather than rash decisions. He understands the value of knowledge and reason more than all the other brethren do. A trait he has in common with Kain.

    I appear to be wrong about the maladjusted thing. I discussed it recently and concluded Raziel was referring to Rahab's tendency to do his own way rather than conform with the others.

    I've actually focused on him more lately because of his raw deal with the devs and getting his clan represented in Nosgoth. I tend to support the underdog.
    Last edited by Vampmaster; 6th Nov 2015 at 12:28.
    "If events are matched closely enough to course, they have a way of restructuring themselves to familiar outcomes." ~ Scorpius, Farscape

  2. #27
    The sooner we`ll get Rahabim, the better

  3. #28
    Rahab and Rahabim ftw

  4. #29
    Somebody proposed once in "New game mode"(or something like that) that we should get game mode where human team hunts down for example Dumah(AI controlled) and vampire team tries to prevent this. So why not? For once we`d get feeling that our fighting really makes any difference in Nosgoth history
    And before you even start- i hate when i win as human team, and next i have to basically swap sides, and try to basically "destroy" my previous work- really break climate for me
    Is there any human faction where you fight vampires and are not fanactic?

  5. #30
    Originally Posted by Heretic_13
    Is there any human faction where you fight vampires and are not fanatic?
    The factions in Nosgoth are hardly fanatic, relatively speaking. But if you're asking if there's a possibility for human soldiers to not be dedicated to the destruction of the slavery-enforcing monsters ruining their lives and world? No.

    And given that we've already seen how this plays out, I'd wager any attempt at feeling like it makes a difference is futile. Humans will be reduced to the Citadel, plus a few stray hunters or vampire worshippers. The remnants of Raziel's clan will be betrayed. The Melchahim will fail to save themselves from decay. Dumah's clan will be scattered. Turel's clan will be scattered.

    That said, such a game mode could be fun if done well. Ideally, the AI-controlled Lieutenant would do more than just run away or wait someplace though. Some minor intervention, some dialogue...

  6. #31
    Originally Posted by Ygdrasel
    The factions in Nosgoth are hardly fanatic, relatively speaking. But if you're asking if there's a possibility for human soldiers to not be dedicated to the destruction of the slavery-enforcing monsters ruining their lives and world? No.

    And given that we've already seen how this plays out, I'd wager any attempt at feeling like it makes a difference is futile. Humans will be reduced to the Citadel, plus a few stray hunters or vampire worshippers. The remnants of Raziel's clan will be betrayed. The Melchahim will fail to save themselves from decay. Dumah's clan will be scattered. Turel's clan will be scattered.

    That said, such a game mode could be fun if done well. Ideally, the AI-controlled Lieutenant would do more than just run away or wait someplace though. Some minor intervention, some dialogue...
    When Raziel witnessed what the Sarafan/Mercenaries were doing to the vampires in SR2, he pointed out that they were not the uncontested predators his kind had been and that the attacks on the vampires of there era were ruthless persecution, do you think he was entirely wrong?

    I don't think any sort of mercy would be shown on any side at the point in time Nosgoth is set in though. Maybe a purified Kain wouldn't be quite as cruel as he and his empire had been previously. They'd still need to feed (which can be done without killing), or course, but perhaps they wouldn't keep slaves anymore, avoid killing the young, unnecessary torture and stuff like that. Kain would still probably need to keep the humans from declaring war somehow, so maybe he'd just kill the ones who challenge him.
    Last edited by Vampmaster; 11th Nov 2015 at 12:00.
    "If events are matched closely enough to course, they have a way of restructuring themselves to familiar outcomes." ~ Scorpius, Farscape

  7. #32
    Originally Posted by Vampmaster
    When Raziel witnessed what the Sarafan/Mercenaries were doing to the vampires in SR2, he pointed out that they were not the uncontested predators his kind had been and that the attacks on the vampires of there era were ruthless persecution, do you think he was entirely wrong?

    I don't think any sort of mercy would be shown on any side at the point in time Nosgoth is set in though. Maybe a purified Kain wouldn't be quite as cruel as he and his empire had been previously. They'd still need to feed (which can be done without killing), or course, but perhaps they wouldn't keep slaves anymore, avoid killing the young, unnecessary torture and stuff like that. Kain would still probably need to keep the humans from declaring war somehow, so maybe he'd just kill the ones who challenge him.
    I...Didn't even say anything about the Sarafan. But...No, no I don't. I'd certainly disagree that they weren't uncontested predators though, as they very much appeared to be exactly that.

    Not sure where the subject of mercy sprang from either but there would certainly be none in this time period.

    A purified Kain, assuming that he couldn't find a way to undo the Hylden's curse altogether (thus removing the bloodthirst outright), would either set up a religion around himself (being Nosgoth's savior and all) and sway the humans toward tribute in the form of humans given as food...Or, in lieu of all that, simply set up new rules for his children that forbids draining any human dry. He shows in Blood Omen that small drinks can be had (though his sadism by BO2's time negates any attempt at this) and Raziel can even 'sip' souls in SR.

  8. #33
    What if "Nosgoth" is set in third Paradox timeline- it`s not really explored, and there is possibility for changing history at least a bit. There is no Kain anymore- and he is tactician, leader and mastermind behind vampires winning war, so maybe, and i stress, maybe, If whole war is set in third timeline, there is possibility for turning tables.
    And that way, hunters of Iron Guard would be my favourite now. I finally got my hands on decent crossbow- Siegebow with spread reducing enchant, and finally i can take on bloodsuckers during matches. Along with whip and sticky granade i can do, what i always wanted- kill them from very short distance
    If there was class in "Nosgoth" wielding sword or daggers as main weapon- that would be my favourite
    And i am still very much in love with Dumahim from vampire perspective, and even when all of Nosgoth goes to hell- even though there are slight contradictions in "LoK" and "Nosgoth" lore- Dumahim are now "dexterious predators, not shackled by notions of honor", while it was Dumah described by Raziel in SR1 as great warrior, and in Sarafan Keep his mural was the only one where he chased off demon with only showing it his sword, plainly stating he was best when it came to fight(i know Raziel was worst boss in SR2, but...)

  9. #34
    Originally Posted by Heretic_13
    What if "Nosgoth" is set in third Paradox timeline- it`s not really explored, and there is possibility for changing history at least a bit. There is no Kain anymore- and he is tactician, leader and mastermind behind vampires winning war, so maybe, and i stress, maybe, If whole war is set in third timeline, there is possibility for turning tables.
    And that way, hunters of Iron Guard would be my favourite now. I finally got my hands on decent crossbow- Siegebow with spread reducing enchant, and finally i can take on bloodsuckers during matches. Along with whip and sticky granade i can do, what i always wanted- kill them from very short distance
    If there was class in "Nosgoth" wielding sword or daggers as main weapon- that would be my favourite
    And i am still very much in love with Dumahim from vampire perspective, and even when all of Nosgoth goes to hell- even though there are slight contradictions in "LoK" and "Nosgoth" lore- Dumahim are now "dexterious predators, not shackled by notions of honor", while it was Dumah described by Raziel in SR1 as great warrior, and in Sarafan Keep his mural was the only one where he chased off demon with only showing it his sword, plainly stating he was best when it came to fight(i know Raziel was worst boss in SR2, but...)
    IMO, the Turelim are like barbarians and the Dumahim are like ninjas. Both warriors, but with very different styles.
    "If events are matched closely enough to course, they have a way of restructuring themselves to familiar outcomes." ~ Scorpius, Farscape

  10. #35
    Originally Posted by Vampmaster
    IMO, the Turelim are like barbarians and the Dumahim are like ninjas. Both warriors, but with very different styles.
    True- but from we can deduce from SR1 Dumahim were all kind of hardened soliders, that would head straight on in to the fray, and Turelim is kind of rare and i`d dare say "precious" vampires tasked with important stuff- like makin this gargantuan Smokestack, engeenering and co.
    Instead we have dumb brute looking Turelim, that cannot even wipe thier chin, and Dumahim that basically took Zephonim schtick- they were the ones to drop on our heads in SR1, taking us by suprise.
    How i`d like to see Turelim in more slender, but still powerful form, and Dumahim with thier heavy, thick bulid a la SR1- if you ask me balance of raw strenght should be like this: 1. Turelim, with moderate to high ability to recive damage. 2. Dumahim, second in terms of strenght, but first in terms of ability of reciving damage, 3. Rahabim/Razielim moderate offensive and deffensive ability, as they have other abilities, that allow them to escape or attack rather quickly, 4. Melchiahim/Zephonim least hp and strenght power, but lots of wierd, outworldy tricks allowing them attacking diffrently than just by hand-to-hand

  11. #36
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    Originally Posted by Heretic_13
    What if "Nosgoth" is set in third Paradox timeline- it`s not really explored, and there is possibility for changing history at least a bit. There is no Kain anymore- and he is tactician, leader and mastermind behind vampires winning war, so maybe, and i stress, maybe, If whole war is set in third timeline, there is possibility for turning tables.
    Interesting thought, but we were specifically told in early interviews that it was the second timeline - or after the first paradox (effectively meaning it fits directly between the opening and gameplay of SR1).
    Earlier interviews had said that the Soul Reaver era didn't really change from the paradoxes, so the 2nd-4th will have only minor differences - and the 3rd wouldn't be much different, but it is specifically the '2nd' version we are seeing.
    Most of the objection to direct Hylden activity comes from this - because they only escape the Demon Realm in the 4th, so we can't directly mention that or related events (Defiance/BO2) even if this time period is virtually identical, because it didn't happen in the 2nd or 3rd.
    Last edited by Bazielim; 16th Nov 2015 at 17:00.
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  12. #37
    Fine. Then fight doesn`t really matter anymore. Clans will scatter, and spread to the point of not being able to control anything beside territories closest to thier patriarch(well, aside of Dumahim, of course, but they aren`t real threat to anyone in thier SR1 state), and humanity will end up enclosed in few strongholds(i don`t belive Citadel was the only one, maybe the biggest, but i`m sure, not the only one). Dandy

  13. #38
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    It's not so much the fight doesn't matter really - they've got centuries before that future happens and could provide human freedom for generations. But yes eventually the vampire clans will be scattered and the human confined to a single walled citadel....Unfortunately it does seem to be specified as a singular walled citadel in manuals - "the few humans that still exist have taken refuge in the fortified city to the north"
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  14. #39
    Originally Posted by Heretic_13
    Fine. Then fight doesn`t really matter anymore. Clans will scatter, and spread to the point of not being able to control anything beside territories closest to thier patriarch(well, aside of Dumahim, of course, but they aren`t real threat to anyone in thier SR1 state), and humanity will end up enclosed in few strongholds(i don`t belive Citadel was the only one, maybe the biggest, but i`m sure, not the only one). Dandy
    And why is that a problem? So it's a foregone conclusion that the war ultimately fails. It's foregone too that the Razielim never restore their prestige and die either by betrayal or otherwise.

    And as Bazielim says, it's quite possible that the war does succeed in freeing the humans - for a time. After all, we've got at least five-hundred years between Raziel's execution and return.

    This idea of yours that muscle mass is inversely proportional to intellect continues to puzzle me. There is absolutely nothing to back up such an idea, nor is there anything to suggest that the Turelim cannot wipe their chins.

    The character design in Nosgoth is decidedly different from what SR1 shows us but at this point, we may just have to live with that. Frankly, I just assume their forms underwent dramatic shifts over the next five-hundred years. Turelim legs shrunk as they took to using their telekinesis for movement, upper bodies grew strong from the manual work with the Smokestack and such.

    The rarity of the Turelim in SR1 is, design-wise, a result of time constraints. They couldn't complete the Turelim territory in time to ship the game but still wanted to make use of the already-designed Turelim. But it's never really explained storywise why they scattered. Some seem to reside near to the Drowned Abbey though. I think it was mentioned somewhere that Turelim controlled the Abbey before Rahab had it flooded. Should it ever become a map - and it could, as Nosgoth may be set prior to its flooding - I'd like to see signs of that miniature civil war.

  15. #40
    You ask me why i see problem. Well let`s just say i don`t like the fact that all my work is in vain- even in video games. If LoK ending ever came, and we`d get conclusion that Elder God, or Hyldens win after all- i`d be very angry at series, maybe even to the point of abandoning it altogether. Some may think that end dosen`t matter, only the path ones take to get there, and it`s true in many situations- physical traning for example
    But not every time. Sometimes we need to get our little "reward", or we`ll just became disappointed and just walk away. I don`t know, how this is comforting to anyone, knowing what will happen after all
    Turelim are wise, or smart at least- and thier design speaks otherwise. Tell me- if you`d see a guy walking down the street with muscles big enough, for him to have problems with puting his phone next to his ear and low forehead- would you think "Now, that is an educated fellow. Bet he can do brain surgery"?
    No, you`d think it`s another musclebound moron with steroids eating his brain. I do know why Tyrants look, how they do- threatening, powerful, tyranical- hoewer stupid it may sound. But good ol` Turelim also looked like they could pull your liver through your nose instead
    And i understand how someone would like Turelim- hell, i like them. They don`t beat around the bush, don`t back stab, don`t use wierd tricks and magic- they just go straight at you. I just don`t like thier look

  16. #41
    Originally Posted by Heretic_13
    You ask me why i see problem. Well let`s just say i don`t like the fact that all my work is in vain- even in video games. If LoK ending ever came, and we`d get conclusion that Elder God, or Hyldens win after all- i`d be very angry at series, maybe even to the point of abandoning it altogether. Some may think that end dosen`t matter, only the path ones take to get there, and it`s true in many situations- physical traning for example
    But not every time. Sometimes we need to get our little "reward", or we`ll just became disappointed and just walk away. I don`t know, how this is comforting to anyone, knowing what will happen after all
    Turelim are wise, or smart at least- and thier design speaks otherwise. Tell me- if you`d see a guy walking down the street with muscles big enough, for him to have problems with puting his phone next to his ear and low forehead- would you think "Now, that is an educated fellow. Bet he can do brain surgery"?
    No, you`d think it`s another musclebound moron with steroids eating his brain. I do know why Tyrants look, how they do- threatening, powerful, tyranical- hoewer stupid it may sound. But good ol` Turelim also looked like they could pull your liver through your nose instead
    And i understand how someone would like Turelim- hell, i like them. They don`t beat around the bush, don`t back stab, don`t use wierd tricks and magic- they just go straight at you. I just don`t like thier look

    Your aversion to 'weird tricks' is also puzzling to me. Drawing imaginary lines of killing etiquette and arbitrary boundaries of 'clean' fighting. I'd be British right now if you'd been born as George Washington. :P Bless that sneaky dirty-fighting Yankee.

    Um...If the LoK ended, everyone would abandon the series. Because there'd be no more series. o.O

    And you are exaggerating the Turelim design. Their foreheads aren't that low (sloping back, really) and their muscles are no more freakish than a particularly dedicated body builder (perhaps one a bit too fixated on the back...). Though I don't think many really "like" the look of Nosgoth's vampires anyway. I basically just settle for them and I'd wager the same is true of others. Too late to complain.

  17. #42
    @Heretic, if you're concerned about all the magic the vampires can do in Nosgoth, but not in Soul Reaver, the explanation is that the vampires in Soul Reaver had gone feral by then and were no longer able to cast spells or at the very least they could only cast a few very basic ones. This isn't something that the Nosgoth team have made up; the original devs talked about it many times.

    I think the Psyonix went a bit OTT with the Tyrants as well (except for the ears). It's too late to change the skins they have, but since they need more variety anyway, perhaps a few more intelligent looking ones could be added or some slimmer ones too. It would have to stay with in the constraints of the evolved ones, as that's the most variation in hitbox size they can tolerate without effecting gameplay.
    Last edited by Vampmaster; 18th Nov 2015 at 10:58.
    "If events are matched closely enough to course, they have a way of restructuring themselves to familiar outcomes." ~ Scorpius, Farscape

  18. #43
    I know this- and many people pointed it out, that i whine about lost powers too much. Thats is my personal opinion, and as we all can see, nobody have to agree. And i like vampires that rely more on dexterity, strenght and skill rather than "Control Mind" power- Ygdrasel will laugh at me- because he think i am person who would walk in single file in to battle disregarding bullets and bayonets pointed at me
    First of all i am more of a XIV, XV century man sword, dagger and buckler rather than musket and bayonet
    Second when i get in to brawl, i like it to be one-on-one rather than me being beaten up by bunch of morons, attacking me from behind, who wouldn`t stand a chance alone- granted it`s much quicker and effective, but it`s also cowardly, and you won`t impress laides by ganging up, and you risk that someone will take revenge by ganging up on you.
    So when i have "duel" with vampire- Reaver slashing me up with claws, or Tyrant trying to smash my head into my shoulders, i whip him, throw sticky granade at him, he uses choking chaze on me/ground slam- and suddenly some Melchiahim or Zephonim attack me from behind, killing me 1-2 shots away from me winning the fight- i am pretty mad. Or i stand and wait for them to show up, and suddenly someone takes control over me and march me straight in to bunch of vampires- before i even have chance to fight back. And it`s really stupid i can`t fight back even a little bit
    For you it`s "good team work", for me they are "bunch of . So do forgive me- i prefer Tyrants, Sentinels and Reavers- they at least have pretty "honest" abilities
    Last edited by Bazielim; 19th Nov 2015 at 10:59.

  19. #44
    Originally Posted by Heretic_13
    it`s also cowardly, and you won`t impress laides by ganging up, and you risk that someone will take revenge by ganging up on you.

    For you it`s "good team work", for me they are "bunch of .
    For someone so disdainful of the Tyrant's brutish ways, you do seem very fixated on the concept of impressing ladies by showing off how well you can excel at violence...

    And it sounds like in that scenario with the vampires ganging up on you, you need better teammates. I'm curious though, if your side bested them, what would your reaction be? "Good teamwork", right? You did admit to enjoying use of Shadow Step despite it being "unfair", after all. There is no honesty, and a fair deal of cowardice, in a double standard.

    Not sure why you'd assume anyone's a homosexual for beating you...That just doesn't make any kind of sense at all.
    Last edited by Bazielim; 19th Nov 2015 at 11:00.

  20. #45
    Ygdrasel, please do tell me, what gender are you- i am "neither" by the forum settings but you plainly can see by my ways i am male. It`s not sexist or anything- i`m just curious. Depending on your answer it could explain to me mystery- why we are polar opposite almost on ever possible subjects? And i am not angry at that or anything, i like having intellignet opponent who points me my thinking flaws
    I do not "enjoy" Shadowstep. I use it because i can. It`s like you`d acuse me of cowardice, when i smash face of someone who do not train martial arts- i am clearly stronger in that aspect- so i have "ability". And because he dosen`t know how throw a punch, dosen`t mean i should dumb myself down to his level. Tough luck. But i think of using Evade, or Haste after all- since i started using Shadow Step there is fair amount of matches where i started to lead- point wise- as Dumahim, just because i can fly away after i pounce someone. I don`t think it`s fair, and i don`t think i deserve high places, as i overuse Shadow Step IMHO- it has to short cool down, so i basically fly around the map all the time
    I didn`t state i am not brutish. Au contraire, my friend in medieval times i`d be the one with berdysh in front line, screaming my head off, yelling insults at enemy, and then bashing skulls(At least i know i am not rapist- i detest the mere thought). I do enjoy hitting someone who deserves it though.
    But I stated that Turelim shouldn`t be looking like simpletons and brutes as they are clearly very inteligent- and strong. Deadly combination. And i do agree that skins are already implemented, and we have to live with them.
    Who, and what i am is complety separate matter
    If someone gangs up on me, because they cannot take me on one by one, i call them very different names XD accusing them of homosexuality is only one option on the list. Why, somethimes event thier mothers and every female ancestor up to 10 generations in the past recives thier fair share of insults
    Oh, and the only way to impress girls with violence, is when you defend them. Win, loose- dosen`t matter, i win the moment i show i will not step down because they are threatened. Thats why i never start brawls. I sometimes manage to end them, and sometimes they end me, but thats is just my "wierd" ideas of being fair

  21. #46
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    Guys, I hate to be a bore but can we try to keep it a little more to topic? Perhaps a little less on the anecdotes of homosexual insults and impressing ladies with violence, and a little more on how said violence equates to the videogames in question? Thanks.
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  22. #47
    Violence-wise, the Zephonim win out bar none.
    They keep their place very efficient, kills stored with minimal mess.
    And they're acrobatic which is fun.
    Though Soul Reaver does not show it off very much unless Raziel climbs up on a ledge.

  23. #48
    Originally Posted by Ygdrasel
    Violence-wise, the Zephonim win out bar none.
    They keep their place very efficient, kills stored with minimal mess.
    And they're acrobatic which is fun.
    Though Soul Reaver does not show it off very much unless Raziel climbs up on a ledge.
    True- "Soul Reaver" don`t show many things that vampires are capable of- adult Dumahim don`t use tounge to attack, nor they use thier constrict ability

  24. #49
    Originally Posted by Heretic_13
    nor they use thier constrict ability
    Their. /petpeeve

    And that's actually accurate. Dumahim do not have that ability. It is an ability specifically developed by Dumah during his time as a wraith, never passed to offspring. And the lack of tongue action is something I would love to see remedied in Nosgoth - or a future game, should Kain return to the SR era to find his children maddened beyond recognizing him - someday.

  25. #50
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    About your (awesome) speech about "xxx tactics", "honest abilities" and so on, Heretic...

    I practice kendo and iaïdo for more than ten years now. I can assure you that it's very frontal and can be both savage and full of finesse. I learned to fight with direct stikes and "honesty", yet deceiver is one of my favourites classes. Let's recap : reavers are fighters, tyrants are warriors and deceivers are nightmares.

    He's the most vicious of them, sure, but sneaking is part of the war. Speaking of war, this game is based on a "war for Nosgoth", not a duel with some noble-mindedness étiquette, right ? One man sneaking to kill the general can be more efficient than a hord of soldiers charging brainlessly. That's part of what I learned by reading works from tacticians/philosophers such as Sun Tzu, Miyamoto Musashi or Takuan Sohô.

    I prefer a solo deceiver isolating and killing me than two clickspamming reavers charging me while I'm at a healthstation. The deceiver is already weaker and actually have to be in direct contact with humans (except for DM, but it's a very vulnerable ability). My build is disguise - infect - illusions, so I don't backstab. I infect ennemies so they can be visible for the mates, and it's already a way to poke them. That's teamplay, just like DM a warbow scout in order to allow attack from sents (for example) is.

    As Corey once said, vampires were designed with that state of mind : "what could I do against someone with a gun when I have none ?". Shadowstep, air superiority, combo with stuns or roofspamming aren't very noble. And why should they be ? It's an asymmetric PvP.

    One thing is sure : the deceiver fulfil its intended purpose, as it... deceive you (badum tss ).
    Last edited by -Shiro-; 26th Nov 2015 at 14:01.

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