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Thread: new perk and scout running as speedy gonzales, seriusly devs?

new perk and scout running as speedy gonzales, seriusly devs?

  1. #1

    new perk and scout running as speedy gonzales, seriusly devs?

    seriously, a dev must ask "what if" when do changes to its game.

    what if i add this insane penalty for leaving and a player have network issue?

    what if i add this insane penalty for leaving and a player need to play esl in private serve and is banned in the public?

    stuff like this a dev dont need the community feedback, need only some logic and ask some questions.

    the same about the running scout, why no dev ask "what if" the scout start run so fast is impossible to meele him?

    as deceiver vs certain scout i cannot meele they at all, if they run, they run so fast they gain fast distance from me and they can even affort to run without cut angles, anyway i cannot meele they even if i cut angles and they not.

    why?why in god name no dev ask himself "what if" about the running speed of humans?

    seriously i find myself screaming like the angry german kid and insulting gods and all angels, lol, after some time running like crazy half map i was unable to finish him and in the end the other human killed me, i was almost to smash the new mouse, lol, then i close the damn game (yeah i leaved, dont care of penality if the game angry me so much, i dont want play it anymore when upset me so much).

    the run is essential to gameplay balance, why you keep ignore this and keep give player ways to exploit the run speed to be able as human to choose if to engage or to run without possibility to be meeled? why? why you dont ask "what if"???

    before if you meele a human, you slow him down a bit so was possible if you connect a meele, slow him, now this is impossible, keep run fullspeed even if you meele him 1 time...

    why no dev ask "what if" when the dev team choose to cut this from game, the slow down of human run when meeled 1 time?
    Last edited by riccetto80; 29th Sep 2015 at 07:20.

  2. #2
    Don't chase after him, cut him off. He might be able to run away from you at first, but as long as he's running away he's also not able to shoot you. Let him run, climb a rooftop, catch him by surprise at another time. He needs to heal eventually, camp the nearby health stations. Pick reaver and pounce him, kidnap him as a sentinel, kill one of his party members and have one guy chasing him while your team finishes off the rest of the humans. It's not impossible to adjust to

    He gets the benefit of being able to run away, at the cost of not having one of the other benefits.
    Last edited by GrayPhilosophy; 29th Sep 2015 at 11:57.

  3. #3
    If you can't devise a way to catch him, he deserves to get away.

  4. #4
    Honestly...this "speedy gonzales" problem was much worse b4 "Talents"...because all humans had sprint perk and could buff weapons for sprint.
    At least now it's only the scout that can do this

  5. #5
    Originally Posted by ParadoxicalOmen
    Honestly...this "speedy gonzales" problem was much worse b4 "Talents"...because all humans had sprint perk and could buff weapons for sprint.
    At least now it's only the scout that can do this
    Kinda makes sense that it'd be the Scout to do this. They grew and trained in the mountains around/in Dark Eden, didn't they? They'd surely need to develop mobility to survive there.

  6. #6
    Ah the good old justify game balance changes with lore angle. The scout should be targeted before he gets the opportunity to use this perk, however in pub games with lesser players it leads to a lot of frustration when a scout can lead someone across the entire map and not be caught.

    I don't think this perk should exist, and I don't know why Psionix has this compulsion to give humans speed perks, take them away/nerf them, then give them back at full strength again.

    This design team does on many occasions seem to use a wheel of fortune wheel to decide on balance changes.

  7. #7
    Originally Posted by --Ram--
    Ah the good old justify game balance changes with lore angle. The scout should be targeted before he gets the opportunity to use this perk, however in pub games with lesser players it leads to a lot of frustration when a scout can lead someone across the entire map and not be caught.

    I don't think this perk should exist, and I don't know why Psionix has this compulsion to give humans speed perks, take them away/nerf them, then give them back at full strength again.

    This design team does on many occasions seem to use a wheel of fortune wheel to decide on balance changes.
    Wasn't justifying a thing. Just making an observation.

    If these 'lesser players' are frustrated, they should take steps to become better players. Cut off the Scout's escape path then deal out the melee blows. Failing that, have a Tyrant charge him, a Reaver pounce him, a Summoner throw an Abyssal Bolt to slow him, a Deceiver use Dominate Mind to reel him in (or Shroud to sneak in close)...There are many options. This isn't some ruinous thing.

    Failing all of that, rather than a futile chase over half the map accomplishing nothing, just go kill somebody else.

    Though on their part, Psyonix could be more decisive with their changes too. Keep it, remove it, nerf it, just do it then be done.

  8. #8
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    I think it would be good to have a limit for how long a human can sprint in a single instance. They are only human after all and no one can run forever without falling victim to fatigue, especially while carrying all that gear.

  9. #9
    by the time you figure out a path to cut off the scout or even climb up a wall, hes already half way to his spawned teammates , if not his cooldown for his knives or mines are reset, which can slow you down and give him another headstart to run even if you catch up. especially if its from the try hard pay2win ppl who will keep rolling for that cooldown/sprint/stun resist buffs.

    Gen has a good idea ^^^

    also be aware that some have a slight speed hack, and just increase there speed a bit so its not totally noticeable

  10. #10
    It is easy to say "just cut him off" or "just leap him" but I can just as easily say "run a different way" or "dodge the leap". Then we are just back to a scout running around like speedy gonzales in a game where vamps are designed to outrun humans.

    I just watched ESL final games where Pubstars made Deadsun players look like retards chasing the scout and dying after they land right next to him needing only 1 more hit. That was mainly Deadsun's fault and Pubstars are a more skillful team generally, but it is still silly to have this perk allowing road runner scouts and I just don't see why it needs to be in the game.

  11. #11
    Originally Posted by GenFeelGood
    I think it would be good to have a limit for how long a human can sprint in a single instance. They are only human after all and no one can run forever without falling victim to fatigue, especially while carrying all that gear.
    Stamina meter. Nice idea. As long as it's not some big ugly thing added to the HUD. Keep it subtle.

  12. #12
    Where did you watch that, Ram? I don't see it on Dead Sun's Youtube or ESL page.
    Orange liches from Blood Omen in Nosgoth asap pls

  13. #13
    Originally Posted by GenFeelGood
    I think it would be good to have a limit for how long a human can sprint in a single instance. They are only human after all and no one can run forever without falling victim to fatigue, especially while carrying all that gear.
    God damn, this! VG should have lowest charge, because of weight of his equipment. Scout highest

    riccetto80, i can feel your pain =( I got same feelings when only survived scout keep running from me.

    Originally Posted by Ygdrasel

    If these 'lesser players' are frustrated, they should take steps to become better players. Cut off the Scout's escape path then deal out the melee blows. Failing that, have a Tyrant charge him, a Reaver pounce him, a Summoner throw an Abyssal Bolt to slow him, a Deceiver use Dominate Mind to reel him in (or Shroud to sneak in close)...There are many options. This isn't some ruinous thing.

    Failing all of that, rather than a futile chase over half the map accomplishing nothing, just go kill somebody else.
    He can dodge charge and keep running; reaver need time to charge pounce so it's not solution; if summoner using abbysal bolt it's failfish Even if scout will get hit by it, he can just roll out and keep running. Dominate mind is not instant cast, so scout will run away before cast bar will be full.

    by the time you figure out a path to cut off the scout or even climb up a wall, hes already half way to his spawned teammates , if not his cooldown for his knives or mines are reset, which can slow you down and give him another headstart to run even if you catch up.
    This =)

  14. #14
    Originally Posted by Grisamentum
    Where did you watch that, Ram? I don't see it on Dead Sun's Youtube or ESL page.
    Found it on hexme's twitch page
    http://www.twitch.tv/hexmeh/profile

    No charge for spruiking your channel Hex

  15. #15
    Now just to explain once and be sure you understand:

    This game rely on attack/defense, human have long range advantage, vampire short rang advantage...
    Vampire must close the distance to be effective, in close this distance you risk much as vampire.

    Once you finally are able to close this distance, the simple fact a human can choose to run and disengage is a huge unbalance.

    NOT ONLY, the human can run full speed and in meantime RELOAD the guns, RECHARGE the abilities, REGROUP with the humans who just spawned... can even afford to get meeled without lost the full speed (before if you connect a meele, the human slow down, who is also logic, being hit to slow down, so was possible kill an human connecting a single meele and slowing down him enough to connect also the other meele, if him dont jump somewhere or roll in a clever direction/timing, now this is impossible).

    In meantime the chasing vampire is exposed, in open field, on the floor, to anything another humans can trow at him from long distance... Not only, the running human can reload and turn and shoot you in the face or use the special abilities recharged thanks to the precius second he was on the run, so is not just a danger the new spawned human but also the running human who while you miss to meele him 2 time already reloaded his gun.

    So, in chasing the vampire is hugely disadvantaged.

    On the other side as human, is insane advantage being able to outrun a vampire and NO, NO AND NO, climb a building is not a solution at all, even the most naab human know to move close the walls to avoid being easily detected from vampire over the building, as soon you climb something you lost visual contact with the running human.

    Even the most naab human know if is running and dont hear anymore the vampire trying to meele him mean is climbing up or changing route and human will adjust too changing route or entering inside a building, so, climb will help you ZERO, maybe just vs very very naab human player, "bot level" lol.

    Plus how can you talk about coordinate? a human running is 80% of time after the 2 team engage, both team have losses and only few survive, you cannot coordinate if you are the only one left of team, or the other must feed.

    The other 20% are "robin hood scout" who stay far from team and cover from distance, and when you go and try to kill they they run and you cannot do about, nice this too, but at least this scenario if you coordinate a little you can kill they.

    this are stuff you MUST KNOW, if you are at least a decent player, not a good one, a medium one.

    Originally Posted by --Ram--
    This design team does on many occasions seem to use a wheel of fortune wheel to decide on balance changes.
    Yeah, seems they do random stuff and wait the community feedback, seems there is not a dev who have a specific vision about the gameplay of the game and try to follow this vision, seems they trow random changes and then adjust as the community want, but this is not how a good game is made, a good made rely on community feedback, but first on a good vision and a dev capable to push in the vision direction.

    happen about the meele changes and speed changes they do some months ago, when they in my opinion broke the vampire meele macanics and then partially revert because of feedback community... if you do changes you must do because you follow a vision for the gameplay, if you then revert 50% of the changes you dont follow the vision t all.

    happen with the perk modify, with perk CLEARLY unbalanced

    and in other occasion happen this, seems really random changes trow in the game without follow a idea or logic.
    Last edited by Bazielim; 4th Oct 2015 at 14:23.

  16. #16
    It might be an interesting idea to have human ability recharge times slowed while sprinting.
    Last edited by Bazielim; 4th Oct 2015 at 14:23.

  17. #17
    Originally Posted by TheDreamcrusher

    However, it might be an interesting idea to have human ability recharge times slowed while sprinting.
    Well...Why not ?) But it will be fair what vampires will get same penalty if they attacking.

  18. #18
    Originally Posted by Firehex
    Well...Why not ?) But it will be fair what vampires will get same penalty if they attacking.
    Sprinting and attacking are two entirely different actions. If anything, that penalty would apply while climbing which is the vampiric equivalent of sprinting, providing faster coverage of distance and higher escape chances.

    Besides, the point isn't to punish vampires for killing stuff. It's to stop humans sprinting 24/7. I still vote for the stamina meter.

  19. #19
    another day, another 10 Usain Bolt scouts, running away after a normal sure kill combo. Sentinel perfectly grabs a scout, flies him away to kill, drops him, puncture, roll to avoid knives, and try to last hit the scout, but oh what surprise the scout already runs away with 800 mph and there is no hope of reaching him before he gets to his teammates, who butcher you the moment they see u running after the scout. Srsly? who thought this was a good idea? ppl already complained about way too fast scouts before the talent patch, but now its even worse, they only way to solo-kill a scout now is to hope for him to be dumb enough not to run away. pls fix this a human should never be fast enough to outrun a vampire, even with one leg the vamp should be faster....and its not like humans arent already strong enough.

  20. #20
    I've encountered a few now. Sure they're fast, but predictable. Got the jump on a few of them, then they start running away at low health. Pay attention to which direction they run in and make your way to the nearest health station in that general direction. Lo and behold, everytime I did, there they were trying to patch themselves up and vulnerable to attack. I don't understand why you're having so much trouble with them.

  21. #21
    A player know FIRST to regroup THEN cure (if the teammates dont heal him already), only bot player choose to go alone to healing station while short before a vampire was chasing they.

    Myself time to try i act like im patching myself while in fact i have enough energy to absorb 1 or 2 meele, but i have reload abilities and gun, killed a lot of vampire like you, lol.
    Last edited by Bazielim; 4th Oct 2015 at 14:26.

  22. #22
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  23. #23
    Did I seriously just read how a sentinel was unable to finish off a scout because the scout ran away? You have wings for christs sake...use them! LOL. Only class that maybe has a case here against the scout is the summoner, and that's because the summoner has no pounce, charge, shadowstep, haste, etc. And if you are the summoner and you really, really must kill this scout the simple solution is to pick a class that has one of these aforementioned abilities and go get'em.

  24. #24
    Originally Posted by BlitzingLlama
    Did I seriously just read how a sentinel was unable to finish off a scout because the scout ran away? You have wings for christs sake...use them! LOL.
    you mean fly?....so climb, jump and fly, k cool.....now ill just get that sco.....o wait he ran back to his team already and he's half way healed....maybe you meant Takeoff ability, its more of an escape than an instant way to fly seen as it shoots you so far up.

    Also the summoner is one of the faster moving vamps and a scout using pursuit still outruns her vastly, it looks ridiculous a human out running a vampire as easily as he does, he just takes off like a sprinter running on a flat escalator...

  25. #25
    Originally Posted by ApollosBow
    you mean fly?....so climb, jump and fly, k cool.....now ill just get that sco.....o wait he ran back to his team already and he's half way healed....maybe you meant Takeoff ability, its more of an escape than an instant way to fly seen as it shoots you so far up.

    Also the summoner is one of the faster moving vamps and a scout using pursuit still outruns her vastly, it looks ridiculous a human out running a vampire as easily as he does, he just takes off like a sprinter running on a flat escalator...
    Yeah I mean fly. I've done that countless times for a fast running scout. He may be running back to his team, but when you kidnap him and fly him back he's not close to his team anymore.

    I've chased those scouts with reavers, sentinels and tyrants. If I'm playing deceiver or summoner, I usually don't bother but he's running away away anyhow so my team can still feed and reengage wherever he runs off to join his team.

    People need to stop resorting to the nerf threads whenever they have problems dealing with something. Figure it out...other people have. I like the diversity of the human teams now. Scouts are fast...so what? The other humans' can't have the sprint perk anymore..so that's 4 less speedy gonzales'...amirite?

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