Thread: Balancing of weapons - some numbers

Balancing of weapons - some numbers

  1. #1

    Balancing of weapons - some numbers

    First off, a snippet with the numbers: http://pastebin.com/W75JudNs

    Second off, to me this suggests a couple of obvious issues, namely:

    Fullbore Cannon fires slower, has less ammo, and does marginally more damage, ultimately being pretty much outright inferior to the Hand Cannon, especially if you consider the fact that higher damage per shot = higher overkill.

    Hunter. Siege Bow fires slower, which increases accuracy somewhat, but makes it harder to use to less spam, and it also has a longer reload and less ammo. Making it overall, at best, a minor slightly weaker variation towards the Repeater.

    Scout. Compound Bow is noticeably weaker than the other weapons, War Bow in particular being an offender - it is a straight upgrade with no downsides over the Compound Bow. To a lesser extent, the same is the case with Swiftbow

    Prophet. There exists no reason altogether to opt for Heavy Pistols over Piercing Pistols, they're essentially useless in the presence of other options.

    Also, please buff the poor Tyrant, he's so weak

  2. #2
    You're not taking into account clip size, for one thing. Compound bow having 2 extra shots over the War bow is significant.

  3. #3
    Originally Posted by Llamageddon
    Fullbore Cannon fires slower, has less ammo, and does marginally more damage, ultimately being pretty much outright inferior to the Hand Cannon, especially if you consider the fact that higher damage per shot = higher overkill.
    Fullbore comes with the advantage of dealing 250 damage, which is the threshold to interrupt many abilities in the game. The hand cannon would require two shots to reach this threshold

    Originally Posted by Llamageddon
    Scout. Compound Bow is noticeably weaker than the other weapons, War Bow in particular being an offender - it is a straight upgrade with no downsides over the Compound Bow. To a lesser extent, the same is the case with Swiftbow
    Each bow has its use in my opinion. The compound bow when charged will punish a vampire much harder than a swift bow. A single swiftbow hit can largely be regenerated. Also if you have used to war bow you would be aware of several huge disadvantages. Those being longer charge up time and lower clip capacity over any other bow.

    Originally Posted by Llamageddon
    Prophet. There exists no reason altogether to opt for Heavy Pistols over Piercing Pistols, they're essentially useless in the presence of other options.
    Would have to agree with heavy pistol being the superior choice in almost all situations.

  4. #4
    2 ammo/chargetime difference between compound and warbow is a huge deal, it also decides your game tactic and skill set.

    Prophet. There exists no reason altogether to opt for Heavy Pistols over Piercing Pistols, they're essentially useless in the presence of other options.
    My reason:


  5. #5
    Originally Posted by Llamageddon
    First off, a snippet with the numbers: http://pastebin.com/W75JudNs

    Second off, to me this suggests a couple of obvious issues, namely:

    Fullbore Cannon fires slower, has less ammo, and does marginally more damage, ultimately being pretty much outright inferior to the Hand Cannon, especially if you consider the fact that higher damage per shot = higher overkill.

    Hunter. Siege Bow fires slower, which increases accuracy somewhat, but makes it harder to use to less spam, and it also has a longer reload and less ammo. Making it overall, at best, a minor slightly weaker variation towards the Repeater.

    Scout. Compound Bow is noticeably weaker than the other weapons, War Bow in particular being an offender - it is a straight upgrade with no downsides over the Compound Bow. To a lesser extent, the same is the case with Swiftbow
    I don't agree with any of this ... particularly because those numbers are very misleading. They don't take into consideration the advantage of having a high burst damage with fullbore, they ignore Scout full draw DPS, and they don't factor in things like clip size or reload time.

    Prophet. There exists no reason altogether to opt for Heavy Pistols over Piercing Pistols, they're essentially useless in the presence of other options.
    Do you mean the opposite? Because I would agree piercing pistols are rather useless.

    Also, please buff the poor Tyrant, he's so weak
    I think the problem has more to do with Tyrant being difficult to play (rather than being weak.) I do think he may be a little too squishy without Ignore Pain.
    Last edited by PencileyePirate; 5th Oct 2014 at 06:20.

  6. #6
    For the Tyrant, move the camera back and up during charge to make it easier to see where he's going. Show off his TK by floating rocks along side him to increase his melee range (either in a variation of charge or a new move altogether). Give him a slight speed increase. A mild telekinetic vortex or conveyor belt would be great for bringing his enemies into his melee range.
    "If events are matched closely enough to course, they have a way of restructuring themselves to familiar outcomes." ~ Scorpius, Farscape

  7. #7
    Originally Posted by Llamageddon
    First off, a snippet with the numbers: http://pastebin.com/W75JudNs
    A lot of these weapons are wrong, you put in the wrong fire rates.... Enter them in correctly next time, then we'll discuss.

    You are also clearly forgetting important things like clip size/damage per clip and reload speed (and unseen values like recoil or damage falloff at long distances) when trying to determine the "best" weapon.

  8. #8
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    Mmm, oh boy here we go...

    Originally Posted by Llamageddon
    Hunter. Siege Bow fires slower, which increases accuracy somewhat, but makes it harder to use to less spam, and it also has a longer reload and less ammo. Making it overall, at best, a minor slightly weaker variation towards the Repeater.
    Siege Bow is good where it is. It's a hard to control weapon that deals a lot of damage. 95 per shot. The RoF on it is fine. It ranks up there with Repeater if it is used in the right hands (Repeater is more forgiving you miss). If I were to rank crossbows, it would probably be repeater > Siege bow > bolt thrower > multibow.

    Originally Posted by Llamageddon
    Scout. Compound Bow is noticeably weaker than the other weapons, War Bow in particular being an offender - it is a straight upgrade with no downsides over the Compound Bow. To a lesser extent, the same is the case with Swiftbow
    Compound bow is the best bow aside from Swiftbow. Why? Drawback time. War and Stormbows have WAY too long of a drawback time to be effective. Not to mention the clip size is very precious to a scout. War is the biggest offender of the drawback time. Stormbow has a delayed damage effect just making it ghastly to use, it more than often naught gets you killed.

    Originally Posted by Llamageddon
    Prophet. There exists no reason altogether to opt for Heavy Pistols over Piercing Pistols, they're essentially useless in the presence of other options.
    Dual pistols are the best for prophet, because of clip size, RoF, damage, etc. They are also easier to control. If you miss a shot on heavy pistols, you might be screwed, whereas if you miss a shot on dual pistols you might have some grace.

    Numbers =/= playing with the weapons. You have to factor things like recoil and spread in as well, as well as many other things.
    Last edited by RazielWarmonic; 4th Oct 2014 at 15:52.

  9. #9
    Originally Posted by RazielWarmonic
    Dual pistols are the best for prophet, because of clip size, RoF, damage, etc. They are also easier to control. If you miss a shot on heavy pistols, you might be screwed, whereas if you miss a shot on dual pistols you might have some grace.

    Numbers =/= playing with the weapons. You have to factor things like recoil and spread in as well, as well as many other things.
    Personally I find heavies better than duals, but that just goes to show that there isn't one definitively best choice.

    As for reasoning (for any who are curious) I find my aim is more precise when I concentrate on high accuracy burst fire; it's easier to control her recoil and I have a little more time between shots to make sure the cross-hair is on point. The increased ROF of duals seems to yield a higher percentage of missed shots w/ my play-style.

  10. #10
    Originally Posted by RazielWarmonic
    Compound bow is the best bow aside from Swiftbow. Why? Drawback time. War and Stormbows have WAY too long of a drawback time to be effective. Not to mention the clip size is very precious to a scout. War is the biggest offender of the drawback time. Stormbow has a delayed damage effect just making it ghastly to use, it more than often naught gets you killed.
    The stormbow has the same drawback time as the compound bow. And the delayed damage can be a detriment, sure, but "more often than *not" is an exaggeration; it also has the benefit of telling a vampires position for longer.

    Originally Posted by RazielWarmonic
    Dual pistols are the best for prophet, because of clip size, RoF, damage, etc. They are also easier to control. If you miss a shot on heavy pistols, you might be screwed, whereas if you miss a shot on dual pistols you might have some grace.

    Numbers =/= playing with the weapons. You have to factor things like recoil and spread in as well, as well as many other things.
    Missing a shot with heavies might be more damage lost than with the other pistols, but each shot hit is more damage done as well. This is essentially the only difference between the weapons, so it's mostly a matter of personal preference.
    And spread & recoil are numbers, btw.

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