Thread: Deadeye issue

Deadeye issue

  1. #1

    Deadeye issue

    Simply put, it is too strong. Combine it with a 10% reduction on your hunter xbow/priest pistols and your shots turn into perfectly accurate shots that you can snipe people with.

    Now I can understand the point of humans having range and vampires having melee, but this single perk turns the scout class into something that is really worthless. Why go scout when you can snipe people will full view as a priest or hunter with no negatives. At best I think it should only be 5% with a possible 10% on weapon or 10% perk with 5% on weapon. Either way, the total needs cut in half at least if not more. I'd honestly be super happy with only a 10% possible w/ perk and weapon combined. You want choices to be balanced, not have clear winners.

    One could also increase the cone for those weapons as well to make it fair to scouts. So if you want to snipe people at range, go scout. If you want mid range poke, go pistol/xbow and if you want cqc fighting go grenade launcher. It would make things FAR more interesting in terms of play styles as well.

    I mean the perk is so strong it is hard to tell if it is skill, just the perk/weapon that is making someone seem to never miss or an aimbot. And with a game that is considering esports.. having a high skill ceiling is something you want to strive for. And this perk does nothing but remove that and make it too easy to use.

    I do also mean that the whole perk system needs rebalanced. As it honestly seems to be kinda willy nilly and just have random stats in various ones. This is a typical problem with games that have a lot of options to customize your play style.

  2. #2
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    Deadeye was nerfed already, it was suppose to be 25% now 20%. It's funny how a lot of new players always complain about this OP that OP. Trust me once you get used to the game mechanic and know how to play as a team you don't feel like anything is too OP. However, since Psyonix is nice and will be willing to nerf everything for the enjoyment of new players but screw the oldies right? No but kidding aside It's fine how it is now, I played with a lot of new players and most of them just walk and don't even roll, it's like a walking target sign, it doesn't take an expert to hit them. Learn to dodge first and once you know and you still get hit 24/7 then complain again. Btw DEADEYE IS SOOOOO LAST MONTH, IT'S ALL ABOUT REDUCE RECOIL NOW =P

  3. #3
    I don't think Deadeye is that much of an issue, personally I find Fleet Footed to be much stronger because generally if you dodge to the side and start sprinting the vampires will almost never catch me, I can't say how many times this has saved my life. I don't care what people say... Fleet Foot is really good. Meanwhile I can still play as Scout and still nail people across the map.

  4. #4
    Originally Posted by shootzz
    Deadeye was nerfed already, it was suppose to be 25% now 20%. It's funny how a lot of new players always complain about this OP that OP. Trust me once you get used to the game mechanic and know how to play as a team you don't feel like anything is too OP. However, since Psyonix is nice and will be willing to nerf everything for the enjoyment of new players but screw the oldies right? No but kidding aside It's fine how it is now, I played with a lot of new players and most of them just walk and don't even roll, it's like a walking target sign, it doesn't take an expert to hit them. Learn to dodge first and once you know and you still get hit 24/7 then complain again. Btw DEADEYE IS SOOOOO LAST MONTH, IT'S ALL ABOUT REDUCE RECOIL NOW =P
    Actually I have a player level of 31.. so I'm not quite that new. I've put a LOT of time in and it is a perk that makes things too easy. The recoil one has yet to be worth my pickup because well.. most things don't recoil in a horrible way that I cannot just adjust myself with no issues. While the reduction in my cone of shooting is HUGE since I know how to aim.

    You telling me nothing feels OP is quite wrong, I was also one that made a post on how the grenade needed a rebalancing because it does too much damage in a far to big of an area. Which people laughed at me for.. but look.. it got nerfed for the same things I was talking about. Balancing is ALWAYS an ongoing issue for games. Especially games that are in closed beta still. To think otherwise is just silly.

    The deadeye perk completely removes a lot of the aiming skill and tactical advantages of another class just by existing. With the ability to get 30% total reduction that turns everything into an easy walk in the park for weapons that actually worry about it, the pistols and xbows. The first time I figured that out when I was leveling up my avg damage per round shot up 4k+ because of it. That is just 1 perk and my damage increased in a crazy amount. It made picking off anything at range a joke. Yes I am one of those guys now that is shooting you as you are flying around on the other side of the map and I catch a glimpse of you.

    If this is something I can do now, before I hit the possible ceiling cap in skill for the game.. what does that say about the challenge of the game and how viable it is for esports? It needs a far higher skill ceiling and this perk is slap in the face to that idea. The recoil could be considered the same as it reduces skill to play the game. Perks should be more unique in my mind and right now balanced better. Personally I wouldn't mind seeing deadeye go away totally either, as well as the recoil perk. And just say, think of some more interesting perks that don't just give straight up easy damage.

  5. #5
    Originally Posted by shootzz
    Deadeye was nerfed already, it was suppose to be 25% now 20%.
    Just because it's been nerfed before doesn't mean it's perfect.

    Originally Posted by shootzz
    However, since Psyonix is nice and will be willing to nerf everything for the enjoyment of new players but screw the oldies right?
    Usually when something gets nerfed, it's a direct reaction to it becoming overpowerd due to core changes; Such as vampire melee aim assist being tuned down, or humans overall DPS being lowered.

    Perks on the other hand, have had little to no balance passes since entering Closed Beta (to my knowledge). Which is bad since that's when they introduced weapon chests with passive buffs. I have a rare Repeater with -8% spread, stack that with Deadeye and i have -28% spread reduction; a better reduction than the pre-nerfed Deadeye.

    Then there's the fact that passive buffs on human weapons are much higher than on vampire abilities; I just don't understand the logic there.

    Originally Posted by SexualPanther
    I don't think Deadeye is that much of an issue, personally I find Fleet Footed to be much stronger...
    It depends on the class. Deadeye is barely of use to Scouts and Alchemists, but it is the default for any skilled Hunter and among the better choices for Prophets.

  6. #6
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    Like I said, you are still new even if you are lvl 31 epesically if you have exp boost (dunno if you have) you can get to that lvl in less than a few days. However lvl is irrelevant in this game it's how much time you spend playing it and get experience with the mechanics. I don't complain about anything being too OP because it honestly isn't. You need to adapt to the game first instead of wanting the game to adapt to you. The only time I encounter anything close to OP is when I'm playing a group of well organized experienced players who know what they are doing. Guess what? That's exactly what Psyonix did, they screwed the party system up to try to satisfy new players and many alpha players stop playing cause of that.

    I am not saying you don't have a point, but I don't get hit as much because I use the environment around me to shield me instead of running in the opens and get shot at like most new players do. Also if you are smart you would wait for your whole team to strike unlike more SOLO players out there that rush it by themselves. Don't play this game if you are not into team play. New players who play the Sentinel class are quite easy target because they don't use any air maneuver while flying a.k.a don't dodge projectiles.

    If you want to complain about stuff being OP I can give you a list of stuff that's OP in this game in my opinion if I have to nitpick everything.

  7. #7
    I have -8% spread on many of my weapons but I can still hit people with them just fine.

  8. #8
    this aint COD where aiming skills is everything.... decision making and teamplay plays a huge part in this game than just merely point and shoot / point and slash. Perks is there to enhance your playstyle , just because there is 1 perk that general a lot of people find it easier to fit their playstyle doesnt mean is OP , and yeah there is also tactical maneuvers like using environment to your advantage or wait for an opening to commit , if you prefer guerrilla tactics then be prepared for retaliation , there is no engagement you dont come out without losing some health, is the norm here even though i am also lvl 30+ everyday there is new tactics , class mix up and approaches to learn.

    Other than personal improvement , you'd still need teamwork commitment and synchronization play to emerge an engagement as the fittest to survive, simply not dying is already an achievement to the victory page at the end of each round , example : i've been always at the lowest rank in result screen as tyrant , all my kills counts has been low , but seeing that mad assist points and damage satisfies me because is the best proof that i have played my part well as initiator , although sometimes i still have to initiate even i am at half health most of the time, all thats left is brushing up on re-engaging after first initiation in helping to get some kills.

    The point i want to get through is , team play , class variation and approaching tactics makes a larger factor in determining a winning team than personal skill.

  9. #9
    Originally Posted by shootzz
    Like I said, you are still new even if you are lvl 31 epesically if you have exp boost (dunno if you have) you can get to that lvl in less than a few days. However lvl is irrelevant in this game it's how much time you spend playing it and get experience with the mechanics. I don't complain about anything being too OP because it honestly isn't. You need to adapt to the game first instead of wanting the game to adapt to you. The only time I encounter anything close to OP is when I'm playing a group of well organized experienced players who know what they are doing. Guess what? That's exactly what Psyonix did, they screwed the party system up to try to satisfy new players and many alpha players stop playing cause of that.

    I am not saying you don't have a point, but I don't get hit as much because I use the environment around me to shield me instead of running in the opens and get shot at like most new players do. Also if you are smart you would wait for your whole team to strike unlike more SOLO players out there that rush it by themselves. Don't play this game if you are not into team play. New players who play the Sentinel class are quite easy target because they don't use any air maneuver while flying a.k.a don't dodge projectiles.

    If you want to complain about stuff being OP I can give you a list of stuff that's OP in this game in my opinion if I have to nitpick everything.
    Nope, not dropped a dime on the game yet. It is still too new for me to do that. There are still a lot of improvements that can be made and the game is still changing. Once things have settled I may consider spending money. I got a CB key and got in that way.

    But I have yet to see any serious argument to counter the fact of what the deadeye perk does. Just that it isn't OP because I've played longer. That isn't any form of me understanding how it isn't. The best I've seen is that Exiled does make a good point that it isn't solo play that makes the game but team effort. But again, that doesn't change what the perk does.

    The perk makes playing 2 classes FAR easier than it should make them to play. I am not someone upset because I've been beaten by this, I am a player saying I feel like I am abusing the system because of this perk. I am sniping people with ease with both pistols and xbows at range with little to no problems doing it. This causes more issues than just easy aiming which reduces skill cap but also reduces the point to one of the classes that the humans have. The scout is supposed to be the premier ranged attacker. Thus he loses FoV while using his standard attacking and charging it up. Problem is I can do the same dmg with the pistols and xbow without losing ANY FoV currently. This is a HUGE advantage over playing scout.

    I respect the fact that the devs want to keep humans with ranged weapons. But I think they can tone back how good the pistols and xbows are. And a big place to start is with one perk. Something that turns those weapons into a cake weapon to use even at range. Poke is a huge part of playing as human for obvious reasons. If you can get a vamp down to half health before the initiation then that vamp is either sitting it out to heal or they are down a half a person in a sense.

    I swear I think people may consider me a hack because of sniping them with the pistol from range w/ the heavy pistols. It's actually hard to miss, specially if you zoom as well which brings in the cone even more yet!

    Over all the perks need a look at, and the deadeye perk has been a thorn in my mind since I read they wanted to be esport friendly. That perk is not esport friendly. It removes skill straight up and turns guns that should be mid range into long range. The balance of all of it just boggles my mind. That is totally worth the same as taking less fall damage.....

    I am really looking forward to when they take a true look at their perk system, as it is currently unbalance in my opinion. While I understand deadeye is really only exceptional on hunter, great on the priest and not worth snot on the rest, it still is too good. If they want the hunter and priest to be that accurate, they should just build it stock into them and drop it all together so they can choose more interesting options as perks.

  10. #10
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    Originally Posted by Illusa
    Nope, not dropped a dime on the game yet. It is still too new for me to do that. There are still a lot of improvements that can be made and the game is still changing. Once things have settled I may consider spending money. I got a CB key and got in that way.

    But I have yet to see any serious argument to counter the fact of what the deadeye perk does. Just that it isn't OP because I've played longer. That isn't any form of me understanding how it isn't. The best I've seen is that Exiled does make a good point that it isn't solo play that makes the game but team effort. But again, that doesn't change what the perk does.

    The perk makes playing 2 classes FAR easier than it should make them to play. I am not someone upset because I've been beaten by this, I am a player saying I feel like I am abusing the system because of this perk. I am sniping people with ease with both pistols and xbows at range with little to no problems doing it. This causes more issues than just easy aiming which reduces skill cap but also reduces the point to one of the classes that the humans have. The scout is supposed to be the premier ranged attacker. Thus he loses FoV while using his standard attacking and charging it up. Problem is I can do the same dmg with the pistols and xbow without losing ANY FoV currently. This is a HUGE advantage over playing scout.

    I respect the fact that the devs want to keep humans with ranged weapons. But I think they can tone back how good the pistols and xbows are. And a big place to start is with one perk. Something that turns those weapons into a cake weapon to use even at range. Poke is a huge part of playing as human for obvious reasons. If you can get a vamp down to half health before the initiation then that vamp is either sitting it out to heal or they are down a half a person in a sense.

    I swear I think people may consider me a hack because of sniping them with the pistol from range w/ the heavy pistols. It's actually hard to miss, specially if you zoom as well which brings in the cone even more yet!

    Over all the perks need a look at, and the deadeye perk has been a thorn in my mind since I read they wanted to be esport friendly. That perk is not esport friendly. It removes skill straight up and turns guns that should be mid range into long range. The balance of all of it just boggles my mind. That is totally worth the same as taking less fall damage.....

    I am really looking forward to when they take a true look at their perk system, as it is currently unbalance in my opinion. While I understand deadeye is really only exceptional on hunter, great on the priest and not worth snot on the rest, it still is too good. If they want the hunter and priest to be that accurate, they should just build it stock into them and drop it all together so they can choose more interesting options as perks.
    I haven't been too vocal here, but this really reads like a bunch of weirdly argued and confused feedback. You want to raise the skill ceiling by introducing higher random factors into gameplay? I really don't see how that would increase the skill ceiling since randomness reduces the impact of any actual edge in skill you could have over competition.

    If anything, the damage drop-off could be looked at so hunters/prophets sniping across the map would do neglible damage at larger distances thus empowering the scout once more in the long range game.

    In regards to hunters/prophets replacing the scout: That's just not true. Drawn shots still do a hell of a lot of damage and it only takes a second of visibility for you to be down 40-50% of your HP. I don't really see hunters/prophets matching that in any way unless the vampire's not using cover to advance, which should be a given for everyone at any time when closing distance.

  11. #11
    Originally Posted by PeglegSue
    I haven't been too vocal here, but this really reads like a bunch of weirdly argued and confused feedback. You want to raise the skill ceiling by introducing higher random factors into gameplay? I really don't see how that would increase the skill ceiling since randomness reduces the impact of any actual edge in skill you could have over competition.

    If anything, the damage drop-off could be looked at so hunters/prophets sniping across the map would do neglible damage at larger distances thus empowering the scout once more in the long range game.

    In regards to hunters/prophets replacing the scout: That's just not true. Drawn shots still do a hell of a lot of damage and it only takes a second of visibility for you to be down 40-50% of your HP. I don't really see hunters/prophets matching that in any way unless the vampire's not using cover to advance, which should be a given for everyone at any time when closing distance.
    By that arguement all weapons should be hitscan and have zero randomness. Which obviously doesn't work well for skill based games because simply put the mobility in the game isn't high enough to counter people with good hitscan aim. Which isn't really that hard since we've been playing like that for years now. A little bit of rng can increase skill and tactical play.

    So yes you can solve some of the issues deadeye is causing by decreasing the bullet drop off time, aka make it hit for less sooner. Thus since I can easily snipe people with any weapon in the game short of the grenade launcher, it won't do a ton of damage unless it is the scout's bow. As that is one form of check and balance. Another form is to simply not make it easy to do it, which is my argument about the deadeye perk. It makes it too easy because it nearly turns your weapons into pin point accurate weapons while even spamming them.

    And while a scout potentially could take half the health from most of the vampires in one shot (depends on what bow used), the negative of having very little FoV doesn't make up for the fact that the priest and hunter keep the FoV and can quickly do near the same damage while losing no battlefield awareness. Which hugely increases the potential for having a solid fight on a vamp initiation because it is far easier to see what is going on around you. About the only thing the scout really has going for him is he has a weapon that can be full charged to do a CC.

    If the weapons are meant to be that accurate, make them that accurate and drop the perk so you can balance around it that way. The perk changes the core dynamics between the classes on the human side. This is a serious balance issue. None of the rest of the perks are quite as detrimental as the deadeye perk. I am more than willing to bet that if the devs track damage numbers during each perk rotation on the daily option that they probably see a huge spike in damage from hunters and priest during the times that deadeye is free to use.

    Also I am FAR from a fan of hitscan perfectly/near perfectly accurate weapons. They are easy to abuse and why many games have issues with weapons like those in terms of balancing. People are good at pointing at a pixel and hitting it quickly. We've trained to do it for years now. It isn't as hard as many people make it seem. The hardest part to the game is the fact it is server side prediction and not client side. Thus the whole skill to aiming in nosgoth is just understanding your lag and where to aim based on that. Which won't even be hard in the esport scene because it would be lan battle tournies/games and lag wouldn't be an issue at all. So where is the skill in that? Hitscan perfectly accurate weapons are NOT skill. I'm sorry, it simply is too easy to do in Nosgoth because the hitboxes are big and the players move slow.

  12. #12
    At this point the easy fix I see to this issue is setting a cap for how much a weapon's accuracy can be buffed by. Leave deadeye at like 20% and have the total cap of accuracy at like 25%. this way those people with the weapons with like 10% accuracy don't end up with 30% total, but instead just 25%.

    But beyond that, a lot of the human weapons need some tweaks or something. Anyone notice that ALL the hunter's weapons have the same spread? All of them? There needs to be ups and downs between the weapons beyond just damage and mag capacity, knowing the recoil of the weapon would be nice as well.

  13. #13
    Originally Posted by Hixlysss
    At this point the easy fix I see to this issue is setting a cap for how much a weapon's accuracy can be buffed by. Leave deadeye at like 20% and have the total cap of accuracy at like 25%. this way those people with the weapons with like 10% accuracy don't end up with 30% total, but instead just 25%.

    But beyond that, a lot of the human weapons need some tweaks or something. Anyone notice that ALL the hunter's weapons have the same spread? All of them? There needs to be ups and downs between the weapons beyond just damage and mag capacity, knowing the recoil of the weapon would be nice as well.
    I don't think any weapon should have it's accuracy increased by more than 10%... and even that is not something I'd like to see. You are freely giving skill to a player when you do that. That is NOT something the game should be doing. There is a difference between side grades and straight up clear buffs that any idiot knows they should take. If all the perks were more utility and less straight up defense or power, they would be a LOT more interesting and far easier to balance.

    So if the devs want a weapon to have the potential to be X accurate w/ buffs.. then they need to rebalance those weapons with the idea in mind that a perk should only add so much of a buff. Not turn it from something so so to something godly.

    To give an idea, the vampires get a perk that increases melee attack speed by 5%. That doesn't even really compare to the 20% accuracy bonus for the humans. Granted the vampire perk any vampire could use while the accuracy bonus is only good on 2 humans. But that still doesn't make it balanced because only 2 player classes can use it. Because the team can be made up of 4 ppl from the same class. Thus the entire team could get a bonus of 20% accuracy. Toss on the fact the vampires have to also have to close the gap on the humans to start to use their ability, where as the humans 20% bonus is always doing it's job as long as there is something to shoot.

    Over all, the whole perk system needs looked at. It isn't competitively friendly from a balanced standpoint. Half the problem it seems is that the devs want to have some HUGE positive gains in the perks. Which makes it hard to balance utility vs dmg vs defense. While it could be a "cool" perk, that doesn't make it an effective one for the game in terms of balance and play. And things shouldn't just be made because they are cool, but also because it is fun to use and have used against you. That is saying that if a person is using X and it makes them better at A but worse at B. Thus the person fighting against that can have fun by counter playing X by equipping Y that is better at B and then play to the style that favors B.

    Perks like Berserker have interesting counter play because to get that extra damage you have to be at 1/3 health or less. Which as a vampire that can range from roughly 315 to close to 500. Which means you are able to be killed in 1 ability or a few stock shots. Thus it isn't something you want to use often, but can possibly save you in the few seconds you probably will have it before you die.

    I think I should just do a solid look at the perk system and come up with some ideas for the devs. Granted I have no clue what their intentions are with perks and the core they want them to play because they don't really talk much.

  14. #14
    I think both Deadeye and Steadiness should be removed, Deadeye is too strong on hunter comparing to other perks and steadiness is almost useless on any class other than hunter and prophet

    Quick hands perk is human equivalent for Frenzy in my opinion

    And am I right that all weapons except grenade launcher are instant straight line hitscan? That sucks you know, I loved my bow in TF2
    Last edited by Grockr; 20th Aug 2014 at 19:57.
    Spread out. Find them. Kill them.

  15. #15
    Deadeye is just fine (same to steadiness.) Neither are OP whatsoever, period. It boggles my mind how people can nit-pick on such a small feature and then argue it's hugely important to game balance as a whole.
    Last edited by PencileyePirate; 20th Aug 2014 at 06:12.