Thread: Nosgoth - the mission statement

Nosgoth - the mission statement

  1. #1

    Nosgoth - the mission statement

    This is something of a thread intended for long term Legacy of Kain fans but any advice from those unfamiliar with the series would be welcome as well.

    From the start, it was repeatedly stated that Nosgoth's mission statement; its reason for existing in the eyes of the community, was that it would bring in new fans to bolster the community appreciating the Legacy of Kain series.

    Has it done this? Will it yet if not?

    I ask this because of the very format of the game itself, fast paced team based gameplay. For older fans, seeing stuff like a statue of Turel or Raziel or a mural of Kain holding the Reaver is lovely and very welcome but that seems to be the current extent of involvement of visual cues. Do many players have the time or inclination to stop and observe these cues in game? If they do, they do so at the expense of the game itself because you only half ten minutes per match to fight and you leave yourself open to attack.

    Not only that but Nosgoth offers more things for new players then the lore to become involved in, such as the leagues system being implemented as well as the unlockable glowey effects of various types. It'll be these things that'll keep a serious multiplayers attention, not the history behind the map he's playing in or the significance of a statue he'll use for cover and not much else.

    There is indeed quite a bit of Lore on the Nosgoth blog but...that's it. Its just sitting there on the blog. What incentive do new players have to go read it? Do they even know it exists and even if they did, what in game would prompt them to become invested in wanting to learn more?

    At the very least I think what we need in Nosgoth in what a lot of previous Legacy of Kain games has - an unlockable Dark Chronicle, with various models displaying elements in the lore along with explanations behind them. Perhaps you can spend gold or it opens when you have sufficient XP in a certain class. Say - you level up to level 15 as a Reaver and you get some details about Dumah etc etc.
    Ideally though, I feel that if Nosgoth is truly to bring in new people to bolster the Legacy of Kain fanbase it needed to have some level of immersion it currently does not possess


    I now open the floor for discussion

  2. #2
    I think that so far Nosgoth has created some interest in the Legacy of Kain universe. I know it's gotten several of my friends interested in the rest of the lore, but no, I don't think it's generated enough interest in the main series yet. I think Nosgoth will ultimately bring a lot of positive attention to the series, but Psyonix needs to get people more involved with it. The unlockable lore content you've mentioned has been brought up before, and I believe we'll get it eventually, but I don't think it's very high up on the priority list at the moment. The game is still quite rough, so I think Pysonix will work on polishing it and adding more content before getting around to adding lore, which will not have any effect on gameplay. I think their first priority is to make a game that can hold its own and be profitable, and then after that they may focus on bringing more attention to building up interest in another proper LoK game.

    A few of my friends have purchased the other LoK games since they were introduced to the franchise by Nosgoth, but none of them really got far in them. The problem wasn't that the games or the stories were bad (they actually really enjoyed the stories), it was that the PC ports of the games made them virtually unplayable. Square should focus a group of people on fixing those up (HD collection anybody?!) if they really want more interest in the franchise.

    The things that I've noticed to have drawn the most attention of my newly indoctrinated friends were the vampires themselves. They seemed very interested in the background of the clans, and they seemed to enjoy seeing the clans evolve. I've shown people the statues of Raziel and Turel, and carvings of Kain, and they seemed quite interested in it, but that may have been because they had someone explaining it to them. The statues are a nice touch, but they aren't going to explain themselves, so there is definitely a need for lore. I think expounding on the clans and on the lieutenants themselves would bring a lot of interest to the series, and could open up the possibility of a single player game set in the era of Kain's empire, either before Raziel's execution, or one set during the events of Nosgoth.

    tl;dr - Nosgoth is generating interest in the series, but needs more lore.

  3. #3
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    I do see this as the first step back into LOK universe. What the next step in the universe will be, who knows. Has it been successful in bringing interest back and exposing it to new generations of gamers, I say yes but not completely like many of us fans are hoping for. I've had people asking in the lobbies what I am talking about when I refer to the vamps by their clan name instead of their class name, so we got people interested in playing but not too invested in anything but gameplay. I would love it if there was a story game for this era to go with Nosgoth. The story, action, and drama that is in this era could potentially be on the same level as Game Of Thrones.

  4. #4
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    Originally Posted by CountEyokir
    At the very least I think what we need in Nosgoth in what a lot of previous Legacy of Kain games has - an unlockable Dark Chronicle, with various models displaying elements in the lore along with explanations behind them. Perhaps you can spend gold or it opens when you have sufficient XP in a certain class. Say - you level up to level 15 as a Reaver and you get some details about Dumah etc etc.
    Yep, been saying this for ages, I 100% agree and would love this! Or at least for now make it easier to find entries on the blog site, so you can find the ones about classes/maps rather than having to click through all the years worth of entries to find the ones you're after.

  5. #5
    Of course I think that honestly, a Dark Chronicle is the bare bones minimum lore immersion for Nosgoth to hit. Ideally what I would like to see IN ADDITION TO IT are lore based cooperative or even single player mods with unique assets and missions to make new players want to learn more. I appreciate that currently getting the game to be the best it can be by itself is a priority, but honestly something like THIS is a major priority as well. Otherwise, in terms of Nosgoth's repeated mission statement - the game has no right to exist.

  6. #6
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    Originally Posted by CountEyokir
    Of course I think that honestly, a Dark Chronicle is the bare bones minimum lore immersion for Nosgoth to hit. Ideally what I would like to see IN ADDITION TO IT are lore based cooperative or even single player mods with unique assets and missions to make new players want to learn more. I appreciate that currently getting the game to be the best it can be by itself is a priority, but honestly something like THIS is a major priority as well. Otherwise, in terms of Nosgoth's repeated mission statement - the game has no right to exist.
    Yeah, I completely agree. I too would love for there to be some sort of story based element (either AI or player related missions), such as class related stories on current maps or something relating to LoK would be nice. I though completely understand that this would currently be far too costly for them to do any time soon, but for now I’d be happy for a Dark Chronicle of some kind, either you win bits or buy with runes/gold.

  7. #7
    Originally Posted by CountEyokir
    Of course I think that honestly, a Dark Chronicle is the bare bones minimum lore immersion for Nosgoth to hit. Ideally what I would like to see IN ADDITION TO IT are lore based cooperative or even single player mods with unique assets and missions to make new players want to learn more. I appreciate that currently getting the game to be the best it can be by itself is a priority, but honestly something like THIS is a major priority as well. Otherwise, in terms of Nosgoth's repeated mission statement - the game has no right to exist.
    If Psyonix can get a few more maps out and a survival mode with AI, then a single player mode might be a bit more feasible at that point. Psyonix don't do single player, but they could share the assets like they originally would have done with Dead Sun. Maybe SE Montreal could work on that part of things, since they've already worked on some parts of the game.

    I once worked on a PC game on a very short timescale which was originally only a few missions long but was gradually build up to a full length multi-platform game by combining it with successive installments. Seemed like a good low risk strategy.
    Last edited by Vampmaster; 27th Jul 2015 at 15:16.
    "If events are matched closely enough to course, they have a way of restructuring themselves to familiar outcomes." ~ Scorpius, Farscape

  8. #8
    How high is the chance that a Coin would land on the 3rd Side ? I would Love to see some more Lore.
    Serafans, who are they

  9. #9
    Originally Posted by Rago600
    How high is the chance that a Coin would land on the 3rd Side ? I would Love to see some more Lore.
    Serafans, who are they
    Sarafan you mean


    Any sort of Dark Chronicle would have to focus of course on the setting of the game, so having explorations of the clans would be a top priority. Raziel got his own statue and there are many who think the statues in the Crucible are Turel. But I can't see why we can't have statues of all the Lts. If they're not used in a map they can certainly be put in a chronicle to be easily pivoted around for easy viewing while there is a text box off to one side, explaining them.

  10. #10
    +1 for this

    I suggested an "extras" tab in-game, where in it would be all the blog post...organized and stuff...Would be really if it was an unlockable, like you could unlock the Razielim back-story after you purchased/unlocked the Sentinel etc.

    I do quite like the other ideas i've read here also

  11. #11
    In sort I can not ring the 'immersion' bell hard enough. If widening the fanbase is truly the goal, then immersion has to be a top priority.

  12. #12
    The often suggested idea of full cutscenes depicting lore seems a bit much for Psyonix' size/budget but a series of still image murals depicting the blog lore w/ some narrated audio (provided Psyonix can find someone with a suitably great voice) as they scroll through could be neat.

    That aside, a plain old Dark Chronicle to put the blog lore in-game would be acceptable. Ultimately though, I'd think some manner of single-player AI mode would be the best way to handle slow unlocking of the other games' lore in a similar chronicle.

  13. #13
    Originally Posted by Ygdrasel
    The often suggested idea of full cutscenes depicting lore seems a bit much for Psyonix' size/budget but a series of still image murals depicting the blog lore w/ some narrated audio (provided Psyonix can find someone with a suitably great voice) as they scroll through could be neat.

    That aside, a plain old Dark Chronicle to put the blog lore in-game would be acceptable. Ultimately though, I'd think some manner of single-player AI mode would be the best way to handle slow unlocking of the other games' lore in a similar chronicle.
    This is why I say the a Dark Chronichle is the bare minimum they need to do. Ideally I would like to see a single player vs AI mode if it was lore based, that would give far more reason to want to learn more. Sorry to say but elements like these are 110% necessary. Nosgoth's reason for existing is to bring in more LoK fans. If it does not do this then it failed its mission and I don't think it can accomplish that mission without all necessary immersion elements.

  14. #14
    Originally Posted by CountEyokir
    This is why I say the a Dark Chronichle is the bare minimum they need to do. Ideally I would like to see a single player vs AI mode if it was lore based, that would give far more reason to want to learn more. Sorry to say but elements like these are 110% necessary. Nosgoth's reason for existing is to bring in more LoK fans. If it does not do this then it failed its mission and I don't think it can accomplish that mission without all necessary immersion elements.
    I like lucin's idea for class-based missions.

    Prophets: Roxen's original bail-out from Avernus, going up against sorcerers and demons with Azimuth as a final boss (Kain or Mortanius could even have a visual cameo here if it occurred not long after Azimuth lost her mind).

    Scouts: Andris' fighting his way free of the Crucible with the finale being a super-powered marked Turelim - or even one uniquely deformed the way the Hylden deformed Mortanius during the 'dark entity' battle.

    Sentinel: The aftermath of the human raid on Coorhagen, perhaps. The Sentinels drop in to fight back the human occupation. Obviously the canonical end must be a human victory, forcing retreat to report to Dumah and company but...

    Vanguard: The hellish island assault that spawned them is ripe for mission material, of course.

    Or if going for more than simple 'kill stuff' fare, some manner of objective-based missions (would still involve killing, mind). Maybe the Summoners need to lure free-floating souls to a ritual space for usage in their experiments, while fighting off/evading human assaults (my mind strays to Payday 2 here, with missions serving multiple objectives punctuated at intervals by enemy assaults). After a given number are successfully lured, a short scene plays of the humans being overrun by ghoul hordes or depicting the soul-melding ritual that creates the ghouls. Game set, match, vamps win.


    Or the missions could be entirely new content with new backstory attached. Whatever works.
    Last edited by Ygdrasel; 30th Jul 2015 at 18:49.

  15. #15
    I had the same sort of thought. Grudge matches. Various factions have grudges against another. Drowning men vs Raziel for example. Alchemists vs Summoners in the desert Hinterlands. There is absolutely no reason NOT to do something like this.

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