Thread: New "End Of Match" scoring - July 16th 2015

New "End Of Match" scoring - July 16th 2015

  1. #26
    Originally Posted by CraneL
    I agree that people often complain more than they praise, but that doesn't mean the complaints should be ignored. Oftentimes the complaints are designed to provide constructive feedback.

    Prematurely ending rounds is absolutely **not** a wise change. Look at Nightmare Jay's experience of having to play one side far more than the other side. It's ridiculous. For anyone who wants to play both sides equally as we used to be able to do, the best strategy is to not play to win during Round 1. Instead, we are encouraged, if not forced, to play worse if we're winning so that the first round ends 30:29 or 29:30. That way we get to play the other side for the full round like we're supposed to be able to.

    What is the point of playing a game that encourages you to play badly? What is the point of playing a game that encourages you to train yourself to play badly?

    I love Nosgoth. I've been playing it almost daily since Closed Beta and think it is one of the best F2P multiplayer games out there. This is why it is so important for people to give constructive criticism when the dev team makes mistakes. I don't want the game to end up dead because it was mismanaged and butchered.
    All of this.

    As someone who's played the game since the closed beta, I agree that it is the most fun F2P online game out there. The gameplay is solid, and because it's solid it's fun. I play this game to have fun, and although I have to wait a considerable amount of time to find a lobby then wait for people to join the lobby, this feature effectively cuts the amount of time I actually spend playing the game by a significant margin.

    We aren't complaining, we're providing feedback in a constructive manner with fair points just like the Dev's asked us for. I hope they remove this feature or implement the optional surrender. Because what is active now simply detracts from the fun of playing the game.

  2. #27
    I would say that while in theory this is a good idea that could relieve tension.. it doesn't work with the current model that Nosgoth runs for statistics. This game is primarily a round based game, winning the game doesn't mean you'll win the round.

    Second round could require you to score 21 to win, but if you opponent had 25 already.. or even is behind you with like 18 they could still win the round which goes toward their statistics in game. Now if they implemented some kind of trigger on the gap, like.. fifteen kill difference during the round, then maybe that would be worthwhile. Perhaps even a surrender option as suggested by other would be preferable.

  3. #28
    I see the point of the new end match scoring but it really takes a lot out of the game for me.

    1. I like playing human class better and this really shortens the time I get to play one class over another.
    2. The matches lose the fun of trying to make a big comeback in the second half.
    3. It just feels really abrupt when the game ends so suddenly.

    Just wanted to give some feedback on this new change. While overall, this game is awesome, I really hope this feature gets retracted or at least a vote system.

  4. #29
    Originally Posted by CraneL
    I agree that people often complain more than they praise, but that doesn't mean the complaints should be ignored. Oftentimes the complaints are designed to provide constructive feedback.

    Prematurely ending rounds is absolutely **not** a wise change. Look at Nightmare Jay's experience of having to play one side far more than the other side. It's ridiculous. For anyone who wants to play both sides equally as we used to be able to do, the best strategy is to not play to win during Round 1. Instead, we are encouraged, if not forced, to play worse if we're winning so that the first round ends 30:29 or 29:30. That way we get to play the other side for the full round like we're supposed to be able to.

    What is the point of playing a game that encourages you to play badly? What is the point of playing a game that encourages you to train yourself to play badly?

    I love Nosgoth. I've been playing it almost daily since Closed Beta and think it is one of the best F2P multiplayer games out there. This is why it is so important for people to give constructive criticism when the dev team makes mistakes. I don't want the game to end up dead because it was mismanaged and butchered.
    Your plan to PROLONG your playtime is to spend a chunk of that time intentionally playing in a manner that isn't enjoyable to you? That seems a bit self-defeating, does it not?

    Yes, this system will force people to play as the side they're worse with more often than not, and that could be an issue at lower levels where it seems easier to excel as a vampire than as a human. If this were deemed too problematic, a couple of decent options are available: we could use the old system in the new recruit bracket, or we could confine the new system to league play and either apply it to the entire league or to the mid/upper tiers. This would allow the less experienced players get their full vampire fix in while letting the rest of us have higher quality games.

    The main question we must ask is this: Is it more unenjoyable to have a higher playtime as the team that one is bad at playing, or is it more unenjoyable to sit through a twenty-five minute beatdown with an awful team? I would definitely say that the latter is worse.

  5. #30
    Its a competitive game and i really dont get it, why everyone is crying so hard.
    Prematurely ending rounds IS ABSOLUTELY a wise change. It doesnst make sense to play a already lost game in a competitive game.
    You play it mainly for the win (and ofc fun)! I dont know much about flashpoint or other gamemodes, but for TDM this is a good change!
    And yes ... i get the point with the missing exp and that you cant play every side till the end (humans or vamps).

    So please... stop blindly on this change and make constructive critic ! (a few people have it already..)

    My suggestions are :

    1. The premature ending system should atleast stay to 100% for League system (Solo or whatever queue)
    2. Give casualplayers their oldsystem on TDM like a fun mode (Unranked)
    3. Give us a setting option for privat matches... so we can decide , if we want to play the old system or the new premature ending system (For Scrims or Trainings).

    Some other thoughts:

    - This will splitt the playerbase, but on the other side nosgoth shouldn´t balancing itself for this low playerbase. I think most people aren´t thinking for the future and only see the current state.

    - Please dont forget that this game is first of all a COMPETITIVE game and nosgoth should balance itself around the main gamemode (current TDM)! I know i repeat myself ... but it doesnt make sense on the competitive side to play a game which is already lost. This is only dragging out time, that could better spended on a new round where you can win ( competitive view) . Yes for playing just for fun it would make sense, but the main objective isn´t a J4F game, but rather a comeptitive game! Keep that in mind !

    I hope you got my point...

    Please calm a bit down and be gentle

    (keep every grammatical error for yourself.. latenight despair post ftw ! :/ )

    PS: i love genocidepete for his 10/10 posts... they are really intelligent and long-sighted!
    Last edited by RainaAudron; 17th Jul 2015 at 11:03.

  6. #31
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    I'm a bit mixed on this change. I've seen people asking for it for a long time and I understand the thinking behind it; but I play to play (win or lose) and I'm sure I'm not alone.

    Perhaps once that mark (where victory/defeat in the match is a certainty) has been passed, the players could be allowed to individually leave on their own and without penalty?
    Last edited by GenFeelGood; 17th Jul 2015 at 03:32.

  7. #32
    Originally Posted by Toadzillasenpai
    Its a competitive game and i really dont get it, why everyone is crying so hard.
    Prematurely ending rounds IS ABSOLUTELY a wise change. It doesnst make sense to play a already lost game in a competitive game.
    You play it mainly for the win (and ofc fun)! I dont know much about flashpoint or other gamemodes, but for TDM this is a good change! ...
    +1 (whole post actually)

    I was playing FP yesterday without reading the patch notes and I was totally astounded that the match ended right after the necessary score was reached... and I felt a moment of joy not had in months of Nosgoth patches.

    One of the best changes in the history of Nosgoth in my opinion! It was so annoying to stay in a lost game (especially in Flashpoint)...

    And I really don't know how so many of you want to stay in the game for your personal honor. Which game are you playing? In 90% of those games I played, someone just left the game, switched to his twink character for exp or just didn't play eager enough anymore...

    I'd say it will take some time to get used to it for some, but it is the only logical thing to do in a competitive game.

    But yeah it should be switchable for private matches...

  8. #33
    Originally Posted by GenocidePete
    People generally put far more effort into complaining on forums than extolling a game's virtues. I imagine the devs are probably aware of this, but I hope they don't put too much stock into the feedback received here. This was a wise change.
    No, i try the system and people who write here have right.

    The community was upset about match where you are being stomped, match where you are 1 vs 4 and no one join and there are only a waste of time, things like this.

    this system dont do almost anything about this kind of match, a stomp will be anyway till round 2, a match ruined from leavers will continue anaway till round 2, when need to finish in round 1 as soon is clear there is no turning back and the math is terrible unbalanced.

    much better will be a vote system to surrender, soa team can manage this kind of match on its own.

    today i play a match who was very close, and the suddend finish of it was bad, i wanted to see the match till the end, was a good match and fun gameplay, but this new system cut it as soon a team had the win "mathematical", so cut also the fun of the few match who are competitive, making the match finish sooner

  9. #34
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    Originally Posted by GenFeelGood
    Perhaps once that mark (where victory/defeat in the match is a certainty) has been passed, the players could be allowed to individually leave on their own and without penalty?
    Great! That's a genious idea!
    That way the winning team can just sit there for however long it takes and wait until it goes back to lobby...

    (In case that wasn't obvious enough - #Sarcasm)

  10. #35
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    Originally Posted by Da_Wolv
    Great! That's a genious idea!
    That way the winning team can just sit there for however long it takes and wait until it goes back to lobby...

    (In case that wasn't obvious enough - #Sarcasm)
    No but the TEAM that lost can get an option/vote for surrender or finish the game. It's honestly damn boring that it just ends. winning or losing, you miss out on a lot.

  11. #36
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    I personally think this is a bad idea. Win or lose, it doesn't matter. What really matters is the player's experience. (IE: Learning from their mistakes.). "But I hate learning, I just want to play casually!" You might be thinking, well leveling up and gaining gold is everyone's interest. We'll now get less of that on a loss.

    I'd like to see a surrender option vs this current one. You could also remove the 30 cap and make it always possible to win. 20 minute matches aren't that long compared to many other games.

    Just my suggestions though, take them for what you will.

  12. #37
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    Originally Posted by ZittoN_
    No but the TEAM that lost can get an option/vote for surrender or finish the game. It's honestly damn boring that it just ends. winning or losing, you miss out on a lot.
    Yes - that would be great. (For real this time)

  13. #38
    Originally Posted by Victim130
    well leveling up and gaining gold is everyone's interest. We'll now get less of that on a loss.
    What? You understand that if games are shorter, you'll earn MORE gold, yes? The gold bonus for one's score is trivial in comparison to the 50/75 from the game ending. You'll get resources and weapon drops faster as well. Don't worry, bud, you're still locked inside your Skinner Box with the new system.

  14. #39
    Originally Posted by GenocidePete
    What? You understand that if games are shorter, you'll earn MORE gold, yes? The gold bonus for one's score is trivial in comparison to the 50/75 from the game ending. You'll get resources and weapon drops faster as well. Don't worry, bud, you're still locked inside your Skinner Box with the new system.
    The same doesn't go for XP though. That part depends mostly on kills and assists, which will be less with shorter games.
    "If events are matched closely enough to course, they have a way of restructuring themselves to familiar outcomes." ~ Scorpius, Farscape

  15. #40
    Originally Posted by Vampmaster
    The same doesn't go for XP though. That part depends mostly on kills and assists, which will be less with shorter games.
    If the game is short, that means one side is dominating the other, which also means that only one side is reaping the XP benefits of a longer game. These arguments fail on every level.

  16. #41
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    Originally Posted by Saikocat
    Hi everyone,

    With today's patch (July 16th, 2015) we're introducing a new adjustment to the End Of Match scoring, based on feedback we've received from players. With this adjustment, you'll now find that a match ends once the guaranteed win point has been reached. If a team reach the number of kills/points needed in round 2 to guarantee a win, the match will end rather than continue on.

    For example, in round 1, the Vampire team get 30 kills and the Human team get 10. On the second round, the then-Human team will only need to get 11 kills to guarantee a win, and it's no longer possible for the other team to win at that stage. Rather than continue, the match will now end at that point.

    This is a new adjustment, so we're very eager to hear what you think of it. This is the introduction of this change, so it will be improved going forward, pending feedback and how everyone gets on with it. Currently, this will be enabled for all modes.

    Please do share your thoughts on this once you've tried it out. Thank you!
    ====THIS IS A VERY BAD IDEA=====

    if the 1 Team as vampire go rampage and kills 30-11,in the second round as humans they need 11-0 and win the match???at 7-8.00 time?i played many matches when in the last seconds SECONDS we win or succeded a DRAW when the score was 10-19 at 2.00 time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    i dont get how players say frustration from what frustration?from the 1 round where as Vampire u get 15-3 kills and at 2 round u realize u big time as human(or at least more than the other team did)???
    i tell u about my frustration:
    1st from bot players/afk players/noob players
    2st entering in matches allready played by others, allways in the loosing team bcz that guy left the match
    so i hate playing 3 vs 4
    or in a pt where 1 mate just sit and do nothing
    CONCLUSION
    the match 20 minutes is so much time to play each version VAMPIRE/HUMANS to see who is better?
    if the 1 round the enemy team as vampire get FULL 10 minutes I want my team to get the same time as vampire as well--simply not fair 1 team as vampire to get full time and reach high kill score than rest easy as humans second round for 3-6 kills left.
    i to i have the felling staying more in lobby than playing the game bcs all the above bot/afk/noob players,i dont mind loosing a round as human simply bcz the enemy is much good,staying togeter asssiting each other and still loosing IM FINE with that,but when i see my team 1 go to west other east and the 3rd is afk OMG
    Implement surrender button that give the loosing team 1 kill point or think something to balance the 3 vs 4 matches give advantage for the 3 players team that loosing team power,time etc.until the whole team is set again.
    Last edited by Bazielim; 17th Jul 2015 at 12:26. Reason: format and language

  17. #42
    I continue to not enter in the lobby even with this patch :S

  18. #43
    OMFG...readin all this people here complaining about their lost xp makes me want to bump some heads against a wall.
    If you guys want more XP, start playin better, get more dmg, get more assists, get more kills - it's so easy. And since last patch you can do 3 matches in the same amount of time you would only have been able to play 2 matches before.

    The guys cryin for XP here, are the same guys eatin while full hp just for the xp...
    And I'm sorry to tell you, this game is not about winning as vamps or humans, it's about winning as both of them. Who cares about your damn statistics? Psyonix should remove the whole player statistics...they are just cancer to the community. People start to think more about their stats than the match they are playin.

  19. #44
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    First: Good change, it rly helps to end imbalenced matches far quicker. Close matches will still take 20min to end


    btw ... Some guys never want to surrender ... what it leads to idling ppl who wait for thous 2 guys to finish "there match" ... so nice :/


    Originally Posted by Deyusx
    ====THIS IS A VERY BAD IDEA=====

    if the 1 Team as vampire go rampage and kills 30-11,in the second round as humans they need 11-0 and win the match???at 7-8.00 time?i played many matches when in the last seconds SECONDS we win or succeded a DRAW when the score was 10-19 at 2.00 time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    You can still get the win / draw / loose in the second round with the new system ...
    Last edited by Wolf_the_Legend; 17th Jul 2015 at 14:15.
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  20. #45
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    I’m in two minds about this change; I think for some instances its good but for others not so much.

    Originally Posted by Recine
    Just add "surrender vote" option in game.
    I'd prefer a surrender option for the loosing team, this then gives them the option and it’s not just an instant boot.

    I’m not so happy with the long wait now to return to the lobby, it’s like ha you lost now wait a minute and stare at your failing scores

    Originally Posted by Vampmaster
    Maybe there should just be zero XP and zero gold for any loss. That would solve all of these problems and get rid of any one who can't play to the required standard.
    ...welp that's me gone then

  21. #46
    Originally Posted by lucinvampire
    ...welp that's me gone then
    Me too, but "substandard" teams are the underlying rationale behind most of the complaints.
    "If events are matched closely enough to course, they have a way of restructuring themselves to familiar outcomes." ~ Scorpius, Farscape

  22. #47
    the talk about xp/gold are ridiculous for 2 reason:

    1- you play for fun, you are not, i hope, a korean online farmer who grind xp and gold as work, to have food to eat the evening, lol...
    2- if they will keep this "end of match" solution, they will adjust xp and gold, if really you earn less for match

    but i repeat i think ia "surrender" vote can be much better of this solution, will solve more issue and will give more options to players

  23. #48
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    I wouldn't mind the premature round end being a League-only feature. After all, League is supposed to be competitive. But in unranked matches I'd rather play a full round, even if that means suffering through a stomp. Winning or losing isn't as important to me as playing. And as I said earlier, a great time to try new builds and tactics out is when my team is getting absolutely destroyed, since obviously what I was doing before wasn't working and it doesn't matter if the new idea fails, because we are already completely screwed.

    Edit: Why am I marked as a new player on this forum? I've been playing the game for almost a year now.

  24. #49
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    Originally Posted by Da_Wolv
    Great! That's a genious idea!
    That way the winning team can just sit there for however long it takes and wait until it goes back to lobby...

    (In case that wasn't obvious enough - #Sarcasm)
    I'm talking score wise, when that kill threshold is met in the second round. Time should never be a factor in allowing players to leave.

    Example
    Team A beats Team B at 30/17 in round 1 and in round 2 Team A score 18 kills, which means they have won the match no matter what number of kills Team B scores in round 2. From that point, any who want to leave from either team have the option to do so without penalty or lose of reward, while those who wish to continue playing* (for fun and what ever xp there is left to be had) may do so.

  25. #50
    So I haven't had the chance to try the new system yet as I'm away from my computer, but I wanted to post my thoughts anyway.

    I have really wanted this change a LOT for a long time. This is a GOOD change. So I've been reading most comments here wide eyed wondering what the hell their authors are talking about.

    Playing a match after the outcome has been decided is boring boring boring and POINTLESS. Thank you for not forcing me to do it anymore.

    Just to quickly touch on some of the "arguments" which were mentioned:

    1. "less xp"
    You may be getting slightly less xp for a match, but you get to start a new match sooner where you can earn more xp in a game that actually has a point. Also as Pete pointed out, if a match is very imbalanced only one side gets their delicious xp, the other is walking away with nothing. On the other hand, more games = more gold, more chances for drops. In the end, shorter games give you more.

    2. "I get to play one side less"
    Sometimes you'll start as vamps, other times you'll start as humans, it'll balance out in the long run.

    3. "waah my stats"
    WHO CARES?

    4. "where's my chance for a comeback"?
    Oh, you want to lose 60-50 instead of 50-38? That is SOOOO much better. I don't remember ever having a game where people were like "oh, we just lost, I HAVE SUDDENLY FOUND THE STRENGTH TO TURN IT ALL AROUND". Makes no sense.

    And someone would have to explain to me how the new system is bad for scrims/tournament/private matches, cause the way I see it it's even more needed there.

    Tl;dr: change good, stop crying.
    Last edited by Ysanoire; 17th Jul 2015 at 16:22.

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