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Thread: What's your wishlist to make Mankind Divided the perfect Deus Ex experience for you?

What's your wishlist to make Mankind Divided the perfect Deus Ex experience for you?

  1. #1

    Lightbulb What's your wishlist to make Mankind Divided the perfect Deus Ex experience for you?

    *Reposting this from old DE:HR forum (hoping there is a better audience in here).

    TL;DR - I want a believable, more complex, more intelligent conspiracy theory with better developed characters and motivations. A more immersive world and affecting side-quests would also be great.

    What do you guys want to see?

    For me there is nothing more important than the story. The graphics in the last game were fine. The AI were okay. The augs were kind of disappointing but I ignored half of them. There was a ton I'd change about the gameplay mechanics and 3rd person, but I managed to adapt.

    All of this however pales in importance to the story. That first data cube in Human Revolution signposted the whole patient X thing within the first minute of player control. You knew Megan was alive early on. If you didn't peg that Darrow was up to no good from the get go you should be ashamed of your conspiracy theory loving ass. Getting that ominous, shady aug update thing later in the game was also only reserved for the stupid (or 2nd playthroughs). I'm not going to talk about the endings... I'm not!

    Overall, it was fine. But I've said it before and I will say it again. Fine is not good enough for Deus Ex.

    It missed out on creating great supporting characters like the original. Morgan Everett, Tracer Tong, Smuggler, the team back at Unatco etc. Even smaller roles stood out like Louis Pan, or the Rentons. Killing JoJo Fine was a brilliant feeling, it still blowing up in my face was devastating. We need characters that make the world worth saving. Human Revolution didn't have that.

    Realising that this game was not black and white by showing you another side to the Unatco v NSF story was brilliant. I wandered into the demo of this game thinking it was a cool shooter RPG. Then everything about gaming changed for me forever when I watched that interrogation of the NSF soldier in Unatco HQ. I wasn't playing the game I thought I was. It was playing me! It made players think about their actions, it could make you regret your previous decisions and agonize over your choices because they could come back to haunt you in a very real way.

    I played that demo for months before the actual game came out. Every nook and cranny was explored every possible approach attempted, every conversation root followed. One 'level' was literally months of play.

    That game whisked you along in a way you didn't know what was coming up next. I felt smarter for playing it and I learned about experimental sciences, philosophy, literature and politics. I want that experience back.

    If you're reading this Mary DeMarle, this is for you. More like The Missing Link please.

    Rest of the hit list:
    Better, more functional augs - I really want to see a detachable hand spider that can be upgraded to act as a camera or grenade delivery system (but that's just me).

    Better functionality for people who just want to play in 1st person. 3rd person should be entirely optional.

    No quicktime events! See Far Cry for 1st person takedowns. We don't need all that acrobatic martial arts flash. Keep it simple.

    Leaning!

    Bring back skills.

    PC first development


    If for some reason you're interested in an in depth look at what (I thought) was wrong with the last game's story and characters I made a post on the old forum that got pretty involved;

    http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=122221
    Password's enough, pal. Don't think you know something about the Lady I don't.

  2. #2
    I'll be brief with my list of wishes:

    1. Third person cover/takedowns optional;
    2. Better balancing of stealthy/shooty gameplay - in HR the "guns blazing" approach was very hard and offered very little reward;
    3. Get rid of the hacking minigame;
    4. Have some follow up on the TML/Janus storyline - that was very interesting and I don't want it dropped completely;
    5. Better balance to the weapons, i.e. done't make the pistol a better sniping rifle than the actual sniping rifle;
    6. For the love of god no Megan - that storyline was a wreck, she was a horrible character, don't bring her back.
    7. That being said, at least a cameo appearance for Sarif and/or Pritchard - someone from the previous game - would be nice.
    8. MOAR conversation duels!
    9. Have random people on the streets talk about subjects other than augmentation. People in HR really had one track minds and it made the world feel kinda gamey.
    10. This is going to be controversial, but pipe down the conspiracy stuff. I never liked it in the original, and HR woulda worked a lot better as a simple corporate/political espionage story.

    As an aside, I always feel confused when people praised the supporting characters in Deus Ex. Really? I can't even remember half of their names, and I played the game several times. Gunther and Helios (if you can call him/it a supporting character) were the only ones who were memorable enough. And Paul I guess but only for the fact that he was your bro. Sarif alone is worth more as a character than the entire Deus Ex supporting cast combined.

  3. #3
    I am on board with most of this.

    I actually liked the hacking minigame. It wasn't amazing but I never got bored solving the puzzles for the whole game which has to count for something, I like the level of involvement required as opposed to a multitool in the original. Something more engaging would be great though and it should definitely happen in real time with a view of the game world around you whatever it is.

    If Megan is back I will not play. That story killed any shred of hope I had left for the story turning around and not being what I thought all along.

    I'd say we'll get a good few cast members back and I'm cool with that but how very dare you say the support cast weren't memorable! I fought hard to save that world for people like Jaime Reyas and the Rentons. Jock! I had to go for a walk after that! I was out for Walton Simon's blood and that prick Manderly could not get PS20d fast enough. Anna Navarra exploding in my LAM trap on that plane was the best surprise ever! I went out of my way for Smuggler and Stanton Dowd. I fought and fought to save Paul and executed Maggie Chow gleefully after her tricking me. Have you forgotten Louis Pan! *** LOUIS PAN MAN!

    Conspiracy is a cornerstone of the Deus Ex Franchise. It doesn't have to have aliens or anything but for me the 'old men playing at running the world' trope is important. Business and politics in cahoots to instate the Illuminati and control the world through various channels is cool, despite the whole ILLURMENURTAY bull the web likes to joke about. Deus Ex was the first time I heard about the Templars and the Illuminati theory. It is rich and exciting lore, it just needs to be handled sensibly. Use history and real world examples, even if they are bull. Make it believable, make it possible, make it rich and complex and interesting and you have my money. You can't really have espionage of any sort without conspiracy of some form.
    Last edited by CHERNO-B1LL; 9th Apr 2015 at 14:34. Reason: Emphasis
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  4. #4
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    Originally Posted by Avenging_Teabag
    As an aside, I always feel confused when people praised the supporting characters in Deus Ex. Really? I can't even remember half of their names, and I played the game several times. Gunther and Helios (if you can call him/it a supporting character) were the only ones who were memorable enough. And Paul I guess but only for the fact that he was your bro. Sarif alone is worth more as a character than the entire Deus Ex supporting cast combined.
    I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say you are in a very small minority on this opinion.

  5. #5
    Much blasphemy. The HR fanboys are staging a coup! Stay strong brothers!
    *** random bums in Deus Ex are more memorable than the majority of HR characters.
    "Get out! I've got a bum!"

  6. #6
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    Deus Ex had way more memorable side characters or even just random NPC's. More funny at least. Human Revolution had...I dunno, dogmentation?

  7. #7
    I concur especially that guy in the bar in DE1. Interesting conversation.

    (click image to enlarge)

  8. #8
    Originally Posted by CHERNO-B1LL
    I'd say we'll get a good few cast members back and I'm cool with that but how very dare you say the support cast weren't memorable! I fought hard to save that world for people like Jaime Reyas and the Rentons. Jock! I had to go for a walk after that! I was out for Walton Simon's blood and that prick Manderly could not get PS20d fast enough. Anna Navarra exploding in my LAM trap on that plane was the best surprise ever! I went out of my way for Smuggler and Stanton Dowd. I fought and fought to save Paul and executed Maggie Chow gleefully after her tricking me. Have you forgotten Louis Pan! *** LOUIS PAN MAN!
    Well, that was, with all respect, just your personal reaction. A good character is not just someone who tells you something interesting every now and then. A good character should, first of all, be beliveable as a person - we should know their desires, intentions, quirks. it doesn't need to be very detailed, what character X likes for breakfast or what his favorite toy was when he was in kindergarten is irrelevant, but we should knpw the details that affect the story. We should know why this particular person - and noone else - ended up making those particular kind of actions. In other words, a good character has to have a solid motivation.

    Now let's look, for example, at Morgan Everett and his almost direct HR counterpart, Bill Taggart. What do we know about them?

    We know quite a bit about Taggart - he's a Mormon from Utah, so it's fair to assume he's quite right-wing in his politics. We don't know if he's actively religious, but his stance on augmentation indicates that Christian influence in his beliefs is strong - i.e. "don't tamper with God's creation". That's motivation. His wife was murdered by an npz addict - again, motivation. He's not particularly charismatic, but being a psychologist by trade, he knows how human mind works, therefore he's quite an effective manipulator. Now, Everett (and maybe I'm forgetting something, since it's been many years since i've played Deus Ex) - what do we know about him? Why is he doing all the stuff he's doing? Why is he opposing Bob Page, instead of just running away, or joining him, or doing something else? Who is he? Just a conspiracy guy doing conspiracy stuff and giving us pointers over the radio. That's not a good character by any definition of the word.

    Originally Posted by CHERNO-B1LL
    Conspiracy is a cornerstone of the Deus Ex Franchise. It doesn't have to have aliens or anything but for me the 'old men playing at running the world' trope is important. Business and politics in cahoots to instate the Illuminati and control the world through various channels is cool, despite the whole ILLURMENURTAY bull the web likes to joke about. Deus Ex was the first time I heard about the Templars and the Illuminati theory. It is rich and exciting lore, it just needs to be handled sensibly. Use history and real world examples, even if they are bull. Make it believable, make it possible, make it rich and complex and interesting and you have my money. You can't really have espionage of any sort without conspiracy of some form.
    In this case we're more or less in agreement. More or less something in the Taggart vein of reasoning that conspiracies are just a short name for influential people bending the word to their will. I can roll with that as long as there's no aliens and other really weird stuff.

  9. #9
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    I'm gonna have to strongly disagree with you here, Teabag.

    Compare similar characters between DX1 and DXHR. Let's look at Anna Navarre and Gunther Hermann vs. Barrett and Fedorova:

    Anna and Gunther have multiple rich character moments (the vending machine conversation, the e-mail exchanges, the journals and datacubes and such from other characters, etc). Barrett? You kill him the first time you encounter him, not counting the brief glimpse in the pre-mission at the beginning. Fedorova? She's mute. She never says or does anything memorable at all. These are not characters. They are simply bosses to be killed.

    Gunther, though? I felt genuinely sorry for the guy before I killed him. A much more well-written, well-rounded character.

    Everett is a bad example (similar to Bob Page) because they show up so late in the game. But Tracer Tong? Alex Jacobson? Jaime Reyes? Jock? These guys are with you almost throughout the entire game and have lots of rich character moments.

  10. #10
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    I want Malik back.

  11. #11
    Originally Posted by WildcatPhoenix

    Gunther, though? I felt genuinely sorry for the guy before I killed him. A much more well-written, well-rounded character.

    Everett is a bad example (similar to Bob Page) because they show up so late in the game. But Tracer Tong? Alex Jacobson? Jaime Reyes? Jock? These guys are with you almost throughout the entire game and have lots of rich character moments.
    Such as? That's an honest question, I really don't remember. What were Alex's rich character moments, for example? Those moments that really help explaining his personality, making us understand why he does the things he does in game? If somewhere along the way he says that he's used to be a ballet dancer when he was a kid, for example, that's just a random factoid that has no bearing on anything. Not character development.

    Gunther I give you, as for the rest...

    Originally Posted by Barrier_Maiden
    I want Malik back.
    All I'm saying, this better be Malik:

    ,
    or SE has a lot to answer for. Though in the final frames the craft seems to be taking off empty-handed, leaving Jensen behind...
    Last edited by Avenging_Teabag; 14th Apr 2015 at 06:29.

  12. #12
    Malik being canonically dead would suck giant augmented balls. I liked her (((

  13. #13
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    bro i dont want malik back she was like a third wheel between david and adam and it was bad no romantic drama or something how about u add a plot where adam dumped david in order to have a great relationship with ben saxophone

  14. #14
    Story is #1 for me as well. Make it good, have characters with conflicts with themselves, other people and the world. Give them all different motivations and let us dive into this wonderful world.

    My second big WANT is to have this game to not giving me the option to even come close to having all augs/skills. It should be extremely rewarding being able to upgrade yourself in anyway. Make it count, not just have use gain endless points by going into every back room in a store.

  15. #15
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    Originally Posted by Avenging_Teabag
    Such as? That's an honest question, I really don't remember. What were Alex's rich character moments, for example? Those moments that really help explaining his personality, making us understand why he does the things he does in game? If somewhere along the way he says that he's used to be a ballet dancer when he was a kid, for example, that's just a random factoid that has no bearing on anything. Not character development.
    Lots of things. For example, the tiny little details in his office (e-mails from hackers, the sly references to "online jukeboxes" and such, his reluctance to help you until Anna is taken care of/his reaction to you killing Anna on the 747, etc). Ultimately he's there to serve as a "giver of mission info," but he's no less a well-developed character than Pritchard. They are essentially the same character- Pritchard is just a jerk while Alex is more likeable.

  16. #16
    1) If you have to include automated takedowns in the game, please make them first-person. Dishonored handled takedowns pretty well; lethal takedowns were quick but quite noisy, whereas non-lethal was quieter but took a lot longer to complete. Also the world should not freeze while you do a takedown...
    2) NO CUTSCENES! Please! The pre-rendered cutscenes in HR are like PS2-quality cutscenes...
    3) Ability to talk your way out of boss fights and/or run away from them, like in Deus Ex 1. I realise that this means that the story will have to be written in such a way as to accommodate these things, but the fans will love you for it. This is what emergent gameplay is all about.
    4) More meaningful augmentations and upgrades; I want to feel like I'm really building my character and become more powerful throughout the game.
    5) More objects that you can pick up. I know that the engine in HR had a lot of technical limitations, but I think it would be really cool if you could interact with more objects in the world. It can also make the world feel less "static".
    6) More subtlety in the storytelling. As someone else said, the Patient X thing was literally at the beginning of the game. Why would you do that?! Was I supposed to be surprised by the "big reveal" later on during that optional side-mission?
    7) The ability to remove weapon attachments. I'm sure this will be in the game, but I'm putting it down anyway.
    7.1) The laser sight on your gun should alert enemies. You should be able to toggle it off to avoid detection. It was weird how I could be aiming my pistol with this giant as heck laser at some enemy and no-one would give a damn.
    8) Leaning with the Q/E buttons. Come on, please?
    9) Optional third-person cover system. Based on that screenshot that came out, it looks like you're keeping the cover system from the previous game. That's fine, I guess, but when I use it I feel like I'm cheating at stealth. I rely less on my wits and senses when using a third-person camera in a stealth game.
    10) I was a big fan of the hacking minigame, so I was thinking of maybe randomising it so that you don't get the same "hack map" each time?
    11) A more balanced XP system. HR heavily favours stealth and hacking players. I think I managed to unlock almost every single aug in the game by cheesing at every opportunity.
    12) Stealth should be hard. Enemies should not be forgiving.
    13) Options to customise your UI and HUD, e.g. size scaling, colour schemes etc.
    14) Option to set a soft framerate cap without turning on Vsync.
    15) I liked how you could bind two different keys/buttons to one function in HR. Please bring this back if possible.
    16) The main menus of HR had you scrolling a lot because of its console-focused design. It's a minor thing, but it would be nice to have menus that feel right on PC. I suppose some good examples of PC menu styles would be GTA IV and Unreal Tournament 2004.
    17) A climbing/mantling system would be cool. I'm thinking of Dishonored here as a good example.
    Last edited by Dr_Bob; 10th Apr 2015 at 22:35.

  17. #17
    Originally Posted by Avenging_Teabag
    6. For the love of god no Megan - that storyline was a wreck, she was a horrible character, don't bring her back.
    This. Just this. But I saw her briefly in the demo, and when I did my heart sank.

    I feel obliged to go into bat for Pritchard. He was such a jerk, but I just loved the b-tchy dynamic he and Jensen had. I also would love to see Malik return, but I guess if you got her killed in DX:HR that would be kind of problematic.

    If I'm going to ask for one more thing, it would be please, please, please no 'choose option one' type ending.

  18. #18
    If some people ponder to what kind of player HR was made. I guess it was for people like me. I liked most of it. The hacking mini game, the 3rd person take downs. I actually never liked 1st one as much as I happened to play Morrowind before and after this DX1 may felt a let down tech-wise and I lost the awe moment in process, maybe, but I never connected to it as I did with later games.

    For me perfect DX game would be better story in general. I hated Megan by the end of it and I wish I could have ... don't know get rid of her. She should have died in some accident. She abused my trust and my character. I disliked Megan by the end of the game in manner I didn't dislike even the bad-guys same way.

    Better game balance is in due to. Playing DX difficulty only added need to eat energy bars for stealth+double take downs. The bosses died same way within 2 typhoons. The rest of game was doable same way. All it added was ... need to eat more.

  19. #19
    Originally Posted by WildcatPhoenix
    Lots of things. For example, the tiny little details in his office (e-mails from hackers, the sly references to "online jukeboxes" and such, his reluctance to help you until Anna is taken care of/his reaction to you killing Anna on the 747, etc). Ultimately he's there to serve as a "giver of mission info," but he's no less a well-developed character than Pritchard. They are essentially the same character- Pritchard is just a jerk while Alex is more likeable.
    And how did all these things inform his actions in game? So, he's a hacker who got emails from other hackers, awesome. Why is he reluctant to help untill Anna is no longer in the picture? Why is he willing to throw his life and career to the dogs and follow JC? Do we have a slightest idea what kind of a person he is beside "a hacker"? And actually Pritchard is not just "a jerk" - he's a jerk specifically to Jensen, because he doesn't like Jensen personally, and we know exactly why. With time, they learn to be at least cordial with each other. So no, Pritchard and jacobson are not the same character, not even remotely. They fulfill the same role, but Pritchard is an actual character, while Jacobson is just a function.

    Originally Posted by --Xas--
    This. Just this. But I saw her briefly in the demo, and when I did my heart sank.
    I'm holding out hope that he just remembered her like "someone he couldn't save" in connection with the yellow hoodie guy begging for help. But for the love of god, dragging out the romance thing any longer would be unbearable.
    Last edited by Avenging_Teabag; 11th Apr 2015 at 19:07.

  20. #20
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    I hope Pritchard returns, perhaps he's gone freelance after the collapse of Sarif Industries. I hope he bails Jensen out of a sticky situation or something.

    I get the feeling that it will be a bit alienating for Adam and for the people who played Human Revolution seeing their favorite characters gone, but perhaps it will be part of Jensen's new character development.

    I wonder if we'll see any other returning characters.

  21. #21
    I would very much like to meet Quinn again, but he was a DLC character. I don't know how would they introduce him to the players who didn't play TML.

  22. #22
    Originally Posted by Avenging_Teabag
    I would very much like to meet Quinn again, but he was a DLC character. I don't know how would they introduce him to the players who didn't play TML.
    Well question is if they go by 'vanilla' or directors cut. I always thought devs see DC as the final product to go by. I can as well be wrong.

  23. #23
    Originally Posted by Avenging_Teabag
    But for the love of god, dragging out the romance thing any longer would be unbearable.
    The romance thing was weird, but the strangest about her was the defection to the enemy team and her sudden camaraderie with Namir. It's not explained in any real way. That is one of my major problems with HR. There are a lot of pieces of information missing from the plot.
    Rule 30: A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.

  24. #24
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    Adam shows up to rescue Megan. "Adam what are you doing here...oh right. Rescue. Uhh...yup. Take me away from these err...bad guys"

  25. #25
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    Not only bring back all the weapons but have the ability to customize the ammunition for certain weapons. I would love to put tranquilizer darts in the 10mm hand gun so I dont have to kill anyone. As for take downs I think they should not require a bar but also if all the bars could recharge that would be a far trade off. When it comes to replay I would say let all the things you have acquired carry over( yes weapons, augmentations and upgraded weapons included). Have more side missions. Give the ability to take off the trench coat or not lol. And of course new augmentations. Make one where you can drain energy from a robot to recharge an energy cell. Make the cut scenes graphics as good as the trailer graphics. Make the graphics really good aka native 1080p+. This is only wishful thinking but make the in game graphics as good as the trailer cg graphics.

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