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Thread: 3rd Person Cover System & Take Downs

3rd Person Cover System & Take Downs

  1. #1

    3rd Person Cover System & Take Downs

    We need to have a serious talk about it.

  2. #2
    Well I am not big fan of TPP takedowns.I would rather go with crowbar or baton.

  3. I'm fine with 3rd person cover - I think it works great for gameplay. The takedowns I like too, but if they could be more interactive or have a chance to not play out perfectly (increase risk that someone might be able to break the move or reverse it), that'd be cool. He's supposed to be able to do bad-ass stuff like the takedowns. I'd be fine if they didn't change, but if they somehow improved it that'd be great.

  4. #4
    I don't mind 3rd person cover either. But takedowns need to be 1st person... people didn't like them in HR and they didn't like the arial ones in Thief either, I don't see any reason why they need to be in 3rd.

  5. #5
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    I just hope they'll get rid of the energy bar requirements for non-lethal takedowns, it was a real royal pain in the arse to actually do a complete stealth+pacifist run when ammo often became limited...
    Fear is freedom! Subjugation is liberation! Contradiction is truth! These are the truths of this world! Surrender to these truths, you pigs in human clothing!

  6. #6


    Man, I am so glad we're still having the same discussions we were having back in 2008. I know that sounds like sarcasm, but it's not: I'm genuinely glad that people are still saying "these are problems! Come up with a better solution!" rather than letting it die.

    This old soldier's fought for too long*, but keep up the fight, friends! I don't think it'll go anywhere, but sometimes, the fight is worth it for its own sake!

    *Also he dislikes this forum enough that he can't be bothered to post a million times a day like he used to.

  7. #7
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    3rd person cover should never ever change. I feel like I know my character better if I get to see him occasionally and the view from the cover is great that way.

    However, those takedowns need some more interaction, like mashing the button for example. I'm not a fan of QTE but even that would work better than to just watch everything happen.


    Originally Posted by Ashpolt


    Man, I am so glad we're still having the same discussions we were having back in 2008. I know that sounds like sarcasm, but it's not: I'm genuinely glad that people are still saying "these are problems! Come up with a better solution!" rather than letting it die.
    Well, it's time for us new members to discuss it now. I mean, I was there but I wasn't.

  8. #8
    I think the 3rd person cover-view is awesome, and the take-downs in Human Revolution looked great. I would actually prefer to play the whole game in 3rd person, because I think the character looks so DAMN COOL!!!!! Really not a big fan of 1st person games, but I REALLY enjoyed Human Revolution anyway. The 3rd person cover view helped a lot in that regard.

    Next gen = Could it be possible to change the view from 1st to 3rd person with the click of a button? That would be amazing - and a way to reach a wider audience.

    My first post in any game-forum by the way.... Human Revolution was one of my favorite games of all time. Great work Square Enix. Looking forward to the next chapter. The first trailer looks incredible!!!

  9. #9
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    Originally Posted by Agerholm
    I think the 3rd person cover-view is awesome, and the take-downs in Human Revolution looked great. I would actually prefer to play the whole game in 3rd person, because I think the character looks so DAMN COOL!!!!! Really not a big fan of 1st person games, but I REALLY enjoyed Human Revolution anyway. The 3rd person cover view helped a lot in that regard.
    I actually play mostly 3rd person games and you are my soulmate at the moment.


    Originally Posted by Agerholm
    Next gen = Could it be possible to change the view from 1st to 3rd person with the click of a button? That would be amazing - and a way to reach a wider audience.
    Well, if anyone here remembers Iron Storm...


    1st person - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SerusLwM7Gw
    vs.
    3rd person - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPlfEsDWNAs

  10. #10
    I think the 3rd person takedowns and cover need to go (or at least become optional). That wasn't my stance at the time of Human Revolution, because back them I thought that it was impossible to make 3rd person melee animation that would look and feel visceral and authentic. I changed my mind after playing Far Cry 3&4. Melee animations are fantastic there, and 1st person cover system is simple and elegant. I'd rather EM took a few hints from them and stopped switching from the 1st to the 3rd person view all the time. It is indeed distracting.

    3rd person cutscenes could stay. Far be it from me to say no to some Adam ogling every once in a while. ))

  11. #11
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    The third person cover I was fine with. The takedowns, however, were probably my least favorite aspect of Human Revolution's gameplay. It's a video game, you should keep the player engaged and in control as much as possible and the scripted takedown sequences cheapened the experience for me. Just bring back melee weapons like the crowbar, baton and yes The Dragon Tooth or atleast an early prototype of it so it fits within the context of the universe.

  12. #12
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    Originally Posted by Psychomorph
    We need to have a serious talk about it.
    (chuckles) Oh, boy...

    I think I'm just going to have to go back to lurking on these boards. I don't have the energy to fight this fight again. It's not as if it did one single bit of good last time.

  13. #13
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    Why bother. I'm just going to use the silent run aug, with the invisible cloaking, and blitz my way through the whole levels, taking down enemies from the other side of the wall with my advanced wall-o-vision. They'll never know what hit them!
    To lose one parent, Mr Worthing, may be regarded as a misfortune; to lose both looks like carelessness

  14. #14
    As Wildcat said, there is no point for a discussion. It's not like anything suggested here will mean anything to the devs.

  15. #15
    I disabled the third person cover. Its cheating and cheesing the game there is no way to argue anything other than that. If you want to see around corners then you use the vision mod and use the energy bar up. TPP is something for people to abuse to see around corners and over cover that they normally wouldn't be able to see and that NPCs can't see either. I don't care if its in the game for people who want it but definitely leave in the option to disable it.

  16. #16
    I really hope they completely rethink the concept and just stick to 1st person only, with natural stealth perks (leaning, listening to sound) and technical stealth perks (sensory augmentation, camouflage, etc).

    If not, than at least a "hard" difficulty option where there is no 3rd person.

  17. #17
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    I liked 3rd-person takedowns because they looked cool and the game takes the controls away from you anyway - why not get a great view of that coat or the augs? Does it feel a bit out-of-place in a mostly first-person game? Yes. Does it make things just different enough to keep things from becoming monotonous? Also yes.

    I'm on the fence with this one. I can see the arguments for both.

  18. #18
    Originally Posted by Stellazira
    I liked 3rd-person takedowns because they looked cool and the game takes the controls away from you anyway - why not get a great view of that coat or the augs? Does it feel a bit out-of-place in a mostly first-person game? Yes. Does it make things just different enough to keep things from becoming monotonous? Also yes.

    I'm on the fence with this one. I can see the arguments for both.
    First person takedowns look cool too (see Dishonored).
    Also if you need to add something that "doesn't fit" primarily to prevent your game (or action & stealth gameplay if you desire to be specific) from being monotonous, then you're not a very good game designer. Of course, that is probably not EM's perspective, they probably think the diversity is beneficial, but I see it as mixing vodka and milk (first person & third), at least when it comes to gameplay.

  19. #19
    Originally Posted by Stellazira
    I liked 3rd-person takedowns because they looked cool and the game takes the controls away from you anyway - why not get a great view of that coat or the augs? Does it feel a bit out-of-place in a mostly first-person game? Yes. Does it make things just different enough to keep things from becoming monotonous? Also yes.

    I'm on the fence with this one. I can see the arguments for both.
    Actually, what if there's an option where you can set whether you see the take downs from the 3rd or 1st person. Same animation, just the 1st person has the camera in Adam's head.

    Personally I'm not as much opposed to take downs, as they're just a sequence, where the cover system has an impact on gameplay and immersion (for me negatively).

    What I find a bit frustrating though is that the take downs have no non-take-down equivalent. If you want to just take out the guard with your arm blades, because you have those, you can't.


    In any case:

    watch from 0:33
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...2yH7Jilbo#t=32

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5yqGnnY3eA
    Last edited by Psychomorph; 9th Apr 2015 at 05:27.

  20. #20
    Originally Posted by Psychomorph
    What I find a bit frustrating though is that the take downs have no non-take-down equivalent. If you want to just take out the guard with your arm blades, because you have those, you can't.
    Yes you can, there's just no logical reason to do so except to see the oh-so "Stylish" animations, or if you take your roleplaying seriously and want a murderous bastard playthrough to be complete. Hold the takedown key down as opposed to pressing it.

    "Actually, what if there's an option where you can set whether you see the take downs from the 3rd or 1st person. Same animation, just the 1st person has the camera in Adam's head."
    This isn't really ideal from any particular standpoint. Creating unique animations exclusive to both perspectives would be the proper way, if it were going to be done.

  21. #21
    What's up everybody? It's good to see some familiar names from the Eidos forums.

    I think the game needs a separate melee system where we simply push the attack button to swing melee weapons (and/or Adam's fist) in addition to automated takedowns, if auto takedowns are too "cool" to be removed outright.

    I understand if some people found the takedowns fun but as the ENTIRE melee combat system, they were vastly inadequate in HR, the takedown animations teleported Adam and his enemies around, and to make things "balanced", more specifically, to prevent chain takedowns, the team had to cripple the entire energy system.

    I'm not a big fan of sticky cover either, but I'd be lying if I said I never used it in HR. It was useful at times. I'd love an option to keep it in first person, though.
    Why contain it?
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  22. #22
    Originally Posted by besyuziki
    I understand if some people found the takedowns fun but as the ENTIRE melee combat system, they were vastly inadequate in HR, the takedown animations teleported Adam and his enemies around, and to make things "balanced", more specifically, to prevent chain takedowns, the team had to cripple the entire energy system..
    Oh sheeet Cap'n, you instilled fear in my mind of chain semi-automated takedowns being a thing in this new Deus Batman Creed Ex, at least the trailer hints at it...but may certainly not be the case, that sequence of ass-kicking could involve actual continuous player skill to pull off. I'm not hopeful though. The awesome button persists.

  23. #23
    ^ We can't kill progress. Button - awesome - button - awesome.
    Why contain it?
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  24. #24
    Why contain it?

  25. #25
    This is a game about transcending human capability through technology and augmentation. What in the actual f*%k is Adam using to hover three feet behind himself?

    If they want a way to give you an advantage behind cover than you should have to get an aug for it, some sort of little drone would be great.

    For me it's cheating and it makes it less tense. You can see everything, line up shots, pop up and nail a guy in the dome and be back down in cover. It's a lot more tense when you have to risk being seen by leaning out or peeping over and relying on senses and augs to hear or see where the enemy is. It's a thrill to feel like you are hiding instead of waiting.

    For immersion purposes the idea is you are Adam. Not someone playing Adam, everytime the view point shifted and I could see my avatar I remember I'm playing a game. The original had a drone that flew out and spied for you, that and seeing yourself in a mirror or during conversations was the only time I saw myself, but I was seeing me through in world mechanics not gameplay mechanics. I will always think that works better.
    Password's enough, pal. Don't think you know something about the Lady I don't.

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