Thread: Fledgling and Adult

Fledgling and Adult

  1. #1

    Fledgling and Adult

    Would anyone else like to see this implemented in game?

    I would love it if the current Vamps were the fledglings and we could get adults which played closer to their evolved counterparts. This would be like adding a second character to the class, giving it a completely different power set, but letting you still choose from the existing powers. Turelim would have tk based abilities, dumahim would have the tongue attacks and wrist clubs, and so on.

    Maybe, just maybe, the only way to get these characters was a prestige system? Once you get your character up to the top level (and conveniently unlock the evolved skin), you get the option to prestige them and start over as the adult version, ranking them up again, possibly unlocking an even further evolved skin, bringing it even closer to soul reaver.

    What do you guys think? It would be fun to progress beyond the max level, it would add more characters to play as, as well as more value in playing your favorite characters.

  2. #2
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    To be fair, I think some of the things you've mentioned are already in there or have been previously discussed as potential future developments.

    The initial models have been acknowledged as at the 'fledgling' stage of their vampire development, retaining much of their humanity whilst gradually developing their dark gifts and distinctive clan abilities (purely from a lore perspective - they don't gain anything extra in gameplay though it could be argued you gain more as you are able to get other abilities) - the only exception to this generally are the Razielim whose blood starvation has led to a more ragged initial appearance.

    The evolved skins that are currently available when you level up to level 25 are intended to be the first impressions of the adults of the clan and there has been several suggestion about making cosmetic changes to the attacks of the evolved skins to reflect their skills (so for example the Tyrants shockwave attack would become a more obvious TK bolt instead of a crack along the ground). I'm not sure wholesale changes to the gameplay of abilities when levelling up would necessarily be viable unless there was a base ability to upgrade as this would mean a lot more development and testing.

    On the other hand the possibility of different classes within the clans with different attributes and abilities has also been suggested (so there would be Tyrants and another class within the Turelim hierarchy) but it would be a way off if they do decide to go that route because I think it's intended that all 6 clans should be represented first - it's not particularly been suggested they be elder adults but with differing abilities and traits has. There was also at one stage the suggestion that there might be further 'elder' or 'elite' skins further down the line, again representing a step up in evolution, but again quite a way off if they even go down that path.

    Prestiging systems have been suggested as well and though I quite personally quite like them and the suggestions you've put forward for them, I'm not sure that one was as popular as other ways of showing the SR1 classes
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  3. #3
    oh... nice. Well then, keep up the good work. I honestly look forward to seeing how they progress the characters in this game.

  4. #4
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    DEFINITELY WANT THIS IMPLEMENTED. I mean, it just makes leveling a class more satisfying. Having a special alternate version of a class with its own set of balanced skills would be amazing and feel rewarding as . Maybe add one more prestige skin (that can't be purchased) along the way. Just for those who want the default class.

  5. #5
    It would take a lot of work for sure, but It will add whole another layer to the game with much more progression and variety.

  6. #6
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    Originally Posted by TAli0n
    It would take a lot of work for sure, but It will add whole another layer to the game with much more progression and variety.
    Exactly why I want this to be implemented. Hope someone in touch with Psyonix sees this.

  7. #7
    If it means spidery Zephonim, all for it.

  8. #8
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    Originally Posted by Ygdrasel
    If it means spidery Zephonim, all for it.
    I totally agree with you, and it was mentionned in the past.
    We need more diversity : for example, climbing : it could be different when you're a tyrant or a deceiver.
    This could make the classes really uniques !

    Something else : it's really bothering me, and can't be unseen... the reaver looks like a kid.
    I mean... he's really short compared to other vampires, and even humans.

    Is it possible for the future to see the evolved skins modified/upgraded ?
    The Zephonim, Melchiahim and now Hunter are just awesome, but the "old" ones are now looking cheap compared to them.

  9. #9
    I don't think improved climbing should behave as a built-in perk. It would need the nerfs to the over abilities to keep it balanced unless it was a timed thing like haste or enrage. It would have some sort of additional effect like increased speed, partial camoflage or kicking off the wall to a nearby enemy, but it would have a limit to it's use like any other ability.
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  10. #10
    Originally Posted by Le_loup
    I totally agree with you, and it was mentionned in the past.
    We need more diversity : for example, climbing : it could be different when you're a tyrant or a deceiver.
    This could make the classes really uniques !

    Something else : it's really bothering me, and can't be unseen... the reaver looks like a kid.
    I mean... he's really short compared to other vampires, and even humans.

    Is it possible for the future to see the evolved skins modified/upgraded ?
    The Zephonim, Melchiahim and now Hunter are just awesome, but the "old" ones are now looking cheap compared to them.
    Not sure why climbing would be different for a Tyrant but the Deceiver could use some special climbing ability. I wouldn't mind the ability to cling onto walls for a time, especially if Psyonix is going to keep insisting that Dominate Mind must be aimed from the .

    The Reaver looks nothing like a kid. That is simply untrue. And I think the non-evolved skins look fine, mostly. Though the Tyrant and Reaver variations are considerably less interesting than Deceiver and Sentinels...

  11. #11
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    Originally Posted by Ygdrasel
    Not sure why climbing would be different for a Tyrant but the Deceiver could use some special climbing ability. I wouldn't mind the ability to cling onto walls for a time, especially if Psyonix is going to keep insisting that Dominate Mind must be aimed from the .

    The Reaver looks nothing like a kid. That is simply untrue. And I think the non-evolved skins look fine, mostly. Though the Tyrant and Reaver variations are considerably less interesting than Deceiver and Sentinels...
    I was meaning : more variations, globally. I would like to see a deceiver climbing a wall and moving horizontally, for example.
    "A human move like that", "a vampire climb like that"... I wouldn't mind more diversity, as the classes/clans themselves are pretty different. I remind you that a large majority of the people here was saying that "the range/melee rule will never be broken", until the summoner came in...

    Totally, look at the reaver correctly in classes preview or noscam please, he looks like a hobit. Saying "that's simply untrue" is easy. An approximation : sentinels and deceivers seems to be like 1,80m, the tyrant 2m, and the reaver... 1m50-60. But anyway, I was just giving my opinion, and I doubt any similar bases will change in the future.

    Well again, they do look fine, indeed, but the recent hunter, deceiver and summoner skins are really and clearly the most detailed skins we have (except for the deceiver skin with a naked woman on the helmet, which is amazing), so I was just wondering...

  12. #12
    Originally Posted by Le_loup
    I was meaning : more variations, globally. I would like to see a deceiver climbing a wall and moving horizontally, for example.
    "A human move like that", "a vampire climb like that"... I wouldn't mind more diversity, as the classes/clans themselves are pretty different. I remind you that a large majority of the people here was saying that "the range/melee rule will never be broken", until the summoner came in...

    Totally, look at the reaver correctly in classes preview or noscam please, he looks like a hobit. Saying "that's simply untrue" is easy. An approximation : sentinels and deceivers seems to be like 1,80m, the tyrant 2m, and the reaver... 1m50-60. But anyway, I was just giving my opinion, and I doubt any similar bases will change in the future.

    Well again, they do look fine, indeed, but the recent hunter, deceiver and summoner skins are really and clearly the most detailed skins we have (except for the deceiver skin with a naked woman on the helmet, which is amazing), so I was just wondering...
    There is a vast expanse between "short" and "kid" and "hobbit". One is a matter of height, one of youth, and one of weird proportions and furry feet.

    The Dumahim always seemed a bit shorter than say, the Melchahim and Zephonim. And given their preference for armor (which, by Soul Reaver, seems to have merged directly with flesh in addition to making them somewhat hunched) may have rendered a shorter stature a preferable evolution to better balance the weight. Meanwhile Tyrants are huge and Deceivers are lanky. Reavers are certainly shorter but it seems appropriate.

    The Summoner only broke that rule when people played the class badly, clinging to the bloody rooftops. It's still primarily melee. But more diversity in abilities should be a priority. There should be enough options to create numerous highly differentiated loadouts for each class. As-is, there are enough for two different loadouts per class if that.

    As for the skin thing, the recent skins are prestige and evolved skins. That degree of detail likely couldn't go into every skin or else they'd never get around to any non-skin content.

  13. #13
    actually it Zephonim is higher than two meters, you do not notice because it is always curved, but it is very high, this thing perfectly reflects the Zephonim of SR1 which are very high indeed, the Dumahim keeps human height standard more or less, I do not seem so low, maybe you from this illusion because it takes your legs slightly bent and always seems lower. The Turelim, well, are huge in SR1 and explains that those fighting like gladiators (so much in Crucible so that there's even an arena style in the Coliseum) then develop those muscles bestial, then Turel was terribly strict with his clan , I made them fight and weaker ones perished as a result there are only the biggest.

  14. #14
    The Dumahim look shorter and bulkier in SR1 because of their oversized boots, gauntlets and shoulder guards and the fact that their heads are also disproportionality large.



    You can see from these (Dreamcast) images, especially the first one, that their armor masks their real proportions.
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  15. #15
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    Here is something a particularly talented artist on deviantart made. It's the devolved Razielm. Psyonix has to add this now. I will never believe this game has reached its true potential without devolution.


    (click image to enlarge)
    Last edited by Lord_Aevum; 24th Apr 2015 at 17:34. Reason: please use the thumb feature for large images

  16. #16
    Originally Posted by Cody_The_Wiser
    Here is something a particularly talented artist on deviantart made. It's the devolved Razielm. Psyonix has to add this now. I will never believe this game has reached its true potential without devolution.
    the vamps are not yet devolved in this timeline though
    Last edited by Lord_Aevum; 24th Apr 2015 at 17:32. Reason: please do not duplicate massive images from the immediately preceding post
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  17. #17
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    Originally Posted by Sanguise23
    the vamps are not yet devolved in this timeline though
    Timeline does not matter, it´s the amount of years it takes for the devolution to start.

  18. #18
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    As much as I would like to see the first stages of devolution for the vampires as the next chapter of their development, I don't know if I have it in me to grind out another x number of levels to get there (the last 5 levels were brutal). It's not a valid reason to say no; but its the only reason I would say no.

  19. #19
    Originally Posted by RainaAudron
    Timeline does not matter, it´s the amount of years it takes for the devolution to start.
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  20. #20
    I always had the impression that the player has control over fledgelings, which would explain their relative weakness.

    As for having a mechanic that somehow makes a difference between fledgeling and adult vampires, it would obviously unbalanced unless an entire gameplay mode was dedicated to it. I don't think it makes sense to implement. The evolved skins look a lot closer to the SR1 originals than the others do, though.

  21. #21
    Originally Posted by Mayhzon
    I always had the impression that the player has control over fledgelings, which would explain their relative weakness.

    As for having a mechanic that somehow makes a difference between fledgeling and adult vampires, it would obviously unbalanced unless an entire gameplay mode was dedicated to it. I don't think it makes sense to implement. The evolved skins look a lot closer to the SR1 originals than the others do, though.
    Evolved abilities don't have to be more powerful than the regular ones. They just need to be more closely matched with the type of creatures they were evolving into. It's purely an aesthetic thing, with a bit of gameplay variety included for good measure. There's no need to include any increase in raw power unless there's a tradeoff like every existing ability already does.
    "If events are matched closely enough to course, they have a way of restructuring themselves to familiar outcomes." ~ Scorpius, Farscape