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Thread: Give us a Game not a Movie.

  1. #26
    I think it is a fine balance. I quite like having fast paced sections of gameplay that you have to apply controls in new ways like the den or the river section from TR2013. The bit I don't like is too many QTE's or the game 'playing itself'. That really then detracts from the experience so I would rather that we got to control Lara through normal controls even if there is chaos is going on around her.
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  2. #27
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    I actually forgot all about the movie. I don't care for another TR movie especially since the director isn't one of my favourites (at all lol) so my expectations for this movie are low anyway. I'd rather them spend that budget on the games instead of a film

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pittsburgh1 View Post
    The only thing I can think of to change is the 'boss' idea. This idea has been around for the last 25 years or more in gaming. There has to be a better way to have a finale for a level or scene. A boss in a game today immediately reminds me that it is a game like super mario. And we are way beyond that now.

    Come up with something new.
    We are "way beyond boss battles"? Nonsense! There's nothing wrong with boss battles. In fact, it gives the game a thrilling end, and if done right, leaves the player satisfied and feeling like he accomplished something.

    Boss battles aren't exclusive to Mario type of games. And boss battles have served the TR franchise well for nearly 20 years now. You don't change a winning formula

    Quote Originally Posted by Gitb97 View Post
    I actually forgot all about the movie. I don't care for another TR movie especially since the director isn't one of my favourites (at all lol) so my expectations for this movie are low anyway. I'd rather them spend that budget on the games instead of a film
    But those budgets are entirely different. No money from the TR games budget is going into making the movies. Those are funded by big Hollywood film studios, not SE/CD.

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  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Driber View Post
    We are "way beyond boss battles"? Nonsense! There's nothing wrong with boss battles. In fact, it gives the game a thrilling end, and if done right, leaves the player satisfied and feeling like he accomplished something.

    Boss battles aren't exclusive to Mario type of games. And boss battles have served the TR franchise well for nearly 20 years now. You don't change a winning formula



    But those budgets are entirely different. No money from the TR games budget is going into making the movies. Those are funded by big Hollywood film studios, not SE/CD.
    Agreed. I enjoy a good boss battle. Can you picture 'MGS1' without a boss battle? Man, that game would be a totally different animal without them.
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  5. #30
    chip5541 is offline Battlestations: Midway Lieutenant Commander
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    "Boss Battles" are fine. It is a way of tying up the story being told.

  6. #31
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    I love Boss Battles, especially if you need to be smart, I like them long and fair, and if there's multiple things you can do to the boss to take him down
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  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gitb97 View Post
    I actually forgot all about the movie. I don't care for another TR movie especially since the director isn't one of my favourites (at all lol) so my expectations for this movie are low anyway. I'd rather them spend that budget on the games instead of a film
    This thread isn't discussing the movie that's in the works, it's about how the thread starter felt there were too many cut scenes in TR and how they'd prefer less of a 'movie' feel in Rise.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by WinterSoldierLTE View Post
    Agreed. I enjoy a good boss battle. Can you picture 'MGS1' without a boss battle? Man, that game would be a totally different animal without them.

    Great comparison, man, it needed to be said. I can't imagine for example seeing Natla as the main antagonist in previous games and then not fighting her at all in the end. If there's something big and bad in Lara's way, I want to defeat it.


    Back on topic with the cutscenes, they should do something about the way they're implementing them. I don't want that feeling of not knowing whether I'm still in charge of Lara or not. Someone here also already said that everything new is introduced with cutscenes. Especially with enemies, slow mo kills the skills. What's wrong with being jumped by the enemy? I'd like that part of gameplay back.

  9. #34
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    I do agree to a certain extent, Ivana. I have no problem with story cut scenes. Love 'em in fact. But yeah, I agree that not every new thing needs a cut scene. One such scene that comes to mind in TR was the introduction to rope arrows. Lara needed rope, so, oh there it is in front of us, cue scene of Lara finding it then slow motion, must immediately use. And yet some scenes worked, like the scene in the helicopter when she finds the lighter. That scene added a little to the story. Then there are instances where there's a certain overlap between player control and what's essentially a cut scene. Take the radio tower scene. It is basically an interactive cut scene, but not quite a QTE. I'm still undecided if I minded that. I prefer it to button promoted QTEs, yet there should really have been complete player control, I think. And I enjoyed the wolf fight when Lara is trapped in the bear trap *conflicted*

    I certainly hope there is more of letting the player find needed items ourselves, rather then cinematic reveals.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rai View Post
    I do agree to a certain extent, Ivana. I have no problem with story cut scenes. Love 'em in fact. But yeah, I agree that not every new thing needs a cut scene. One such scene that comes to mind in TR was the introduction to rope arrows. Lara needed rope, so, oh there it is in front of us, cue scene of Lara finding it then slow motion, must immediately use. And yet some scenes worked, like the scene in the helicopter when she finds the lighter. That scene added a little to the story. Then there are instances where there's a certain overlap between player control and what's essentially a cut scene. Take the radio tower scene. It is basically an interactive cut scene, but not quite a QTE. I'm still undecided if I minded that. I prefer it to button promoted QTEs, yet there should really have been complete player control, I think. And I enjoyed the wolf fight when Lara is trapped in the bear trap *conflicted*

    I certainly hope there is more of letting the player find needed items ourselves, rather then cinematic reveals.
    Yes, all of the scenes you mentioned are the ones I remember made me feel disappointed. Rope arrow is perfect example, really. Finding a lighter needed a cutscene, that I agree, but the tower climbing? That was a part where I really didn't know whether Lara moves because of me or not. It was so wrong that the player couldn't move camera all around, decided which way to climb the tower or even jump down to see the epic scene of Lara screaming as she falls.
    Also, did you notice that there are many parts where camera gets stuck and player has to do only one thing - hold the forward button and that's it? Walking at the edges of cliffs and inside the caves is done that way, IMO wrong.

    I didn't indulge into discussion about Syria demo because it seemed like a big interactive cutscene from the start. Killed the excitement in me.

  11. #36
    I don't have concrete examples offhand to backup my points, but I really feel that Tomb Raider did a great job of providing a continuous gameplay experience. I feel that other games, when they go to cutscenes, can sometimes really break the player out of feeling "I'm the one having this experience, I'm a part of this." Other games can really separate you from the player character, and make you feel like you're watching a movie.

    And the reason Tomb Raider DOESN'T make me feel that way is BECAUSE of all those different ranges of camera, where on the whole, really the vast majority of the time we're in a normal gameplay position, but then we have those moments where the camera gets closer, anywhere from mid-range all the way to close-up, but we're still in control. To me, that really helps connect me to Lara as a real character, and not just a little person that is running around the screen. It puts me in touch with what she's feeling and what she's experiencing, so that I feel that I'm really experiencing this situation with her. I'd rather have that variety, have that control in those moments - even if it's more limited control - than have those moments go to cutscenes.

    The Tomb Raider reboot (and now Rise) has such a significant amount of story and character that I'd classify it primarily as a story-driven, character-driven ("action/adventure") game, which is what appealed to me about it more than the previous Tomb Raider games - it's not just a platformer, or a puzzle game, or a combat game - and this is what modern gaming is now really excelling at compared to previous gaming generations - creating a combined, balanced experience. I love games and I've been a gamer all my life, but I love stories more - and so to tell a rich story in an interactive medium that I get to participate in is the most amazing thing for me. This makes those cutscene moments that do break away slightly necessary and important, and I really feel they're far less prevalent and much better integrated than so many other games. And those moments that aren't story cutscenes, but are short moments where the player doesn't have control and the camera is pointing out something to the player - I accept those as part of the cinematic experience and part of trying to grade the difficulty curve, where the game has to do a certain amount of acclimation of the player to the environment, likely more often earlier in the game or when you first enter an area.

    Tomb Raider couldn't be further away from a "movie" game. I really feel that they have a perfect balance of all the elements they're playing with. There are so many games that run the gamut of really putting the player into a passive position whether it's a significant amount of the time or almost exclusively. I love the cinematic Tomb Raider experience and I don't think we're anywhere near being in danger of becoming a passive "movie" game.

    Sorry for all the rambling and lack of specific examples or direct comparisons!
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  12. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rai View Post
    This thread isn't discussing the movie that's in the works, it's about how the thread starter felt there were too many cut scenes in TR and how they'd prefer less of a 'movie' feel in Rise.
    Would love to be able to play through many of the cut scenes. Many of the Cut Scenes in TR2013 made us do things twice which broke the pace of the gameplay because when these events happened the player was taken out of the game. For example when approaching the log at the start or the plane we need to view these events twice. Once to watch the cut scene of approaching the log, then we cross the log.

    TR2013 was less of an exploration game with more action focused elements since the last TR seemed to focus more on a COD approach. Not a bad thing at all, but when entering almost every area or a tomb instead of exploring the tomb to experience it first, were shown wide sweeping cameras of the tomb or the whole area. Its kind of like the game continually spoilered in that way. Maybe a way to encourage the adventurey feel would be to let us explore those areas without the cinematics? Then its kind of a balance so players can experience those areas by playing through them which is good for that awesome explorer type of feeling we all love from the lara croft games?

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rai View Post
    This thread isn't discussing the movie that's in the works, it's about how the thread starter felt there were too many cut scenes in TR and how they'd prefer less of a 'movie' feel in Rise.
    Oh, sorry I confused this thread and the other movie thread then by the looks of it.
    In that case, I like a movie feel.

    Quote Originally Posted by Driber View Post
    But those budgets are entirely different. No money from the TR games budget is going into making the movies. Those are funded by big Hollywood film studios, not SE/CD.
    True, who is even writing the hollywood movie?

  14. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gitb97 View Post

    True, who is even writing the hollywood movie?
    Evan Daugherty is the "current" writer for the upcoming TR movie. That can change and might, but right now that is the current individual. Not unusual for other writers to come in and hone a script or alter it after its written thats just the way it goes in the big biz of hollywood. Evan is pretty awesome though! Took alot of movies that should have never made it and made them work! Hes known for putting in alot of effort into projects, being able to work under pressure, and still pull it off in the end so fingers crossed we all get something were really gonna like! xDDD

  15. #40
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    ^ I'm guessing you like him a lot?
    Thanks for telling me

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