Thread: Let's discuss Vampire skill ideas!

Let's discuss Vampire skill ideas!

  1. #1
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    Let's discuss Vampire skill ideas!

    Hey guys,
    I've made a list of skills which might be a nice addition to the loadouts in Nosgoth (no human skills because I don't like playing humans that much...although I might post some ideas in the next days for them as well).
    After the name of each character I gave a short explanation about the mindset and intentions I had while thinking about the skills.
    I also wrote on which key I imagined every skill (Right Mouse Button, Q, F) and their Cooldown time (CD).

    Please note that I chose names for the skills that in my opinion resemble what the skill is supposed to do. There are
    most likely better names for the described skills. Also take into account, that all numbers are just a rough estimation
    and probably need further adjustment (I'm far from a competitive player, so if you are one feel free to leave an opinion on the numbers)

    Feel free to discuss my ideas or describe you own ones

    -Moltenmarble




    Deceiver:
    I think it is a good idea to let a character which is called "Deceiver" actually deceive his opponent.
    But Shroud (I know it does damage, but I am 100% sure at least half of you already smile because they know the so called "high damage potential" of Shroud)
    really does not deceive experienced players and honestly, don't even start talking about Illusions...
    Also Deceiver is, as far as I know, probably the least viable vampire in lvl 40s play (of course a good Deceiver will be ok,
    but imho a good Tyrant, Reaver or Sentinel will always be a better choice).
    In theory Deceiver is designed as a high risk-high reward character, but as soon as you play against better opponents he soon is more like
    high risk- even more risk character (especially since you can see his HP bar once you hit him during Disguise).
    So I tried to give Deceiver new skills which would make him more viable but also do match his intended image.


    "Relocate"
    Key: RMB
    CD: 12 seconds (triggered after 2nd klick/ on destruction)
    On first klick, a spectral image of the deceiver is created where he stands.
    This image lasts for 10 (?) seconds. On the second klick the Deceiver returns to the place where the image is located (chargeup like Shadowstep).
    The Image has X HP (roughly as much as 1 Illusion) and can be destroyed by humans (so the Deceiver can no longer escape).


    "Deceive"
    Key: RMB
    CD: 15 seconds
    The Deceiver instantly disguises himself as a random human character. He also creates 2 illusions, which also look like (different) random humans.


    "Cheap Trick"
    Key: F
    CD: 25 seconds
    Works similiar to Dominate Mind. The targeted Human looks like a vampire to his teammates and runs towards the nearest of them.




    Sentinel:
    Sentinel is a tough one, because he has a very unique playstyle (he flies...). I believe that this very distinct playstyle should be found in all of his skills.
    Maybe it is also good to know, that the Razielim (= descendants of Raziel in Legacy of Kain lore= Sentinel) were supposed to be dragon-like creatures, not, as many
    people think, bats. So if you can come up with skills that fit this pattern,just post them below^^ (but please nothing like "He can breath fire" or "He can kidnap and hide virgin princesses").
    I couldn't come up with skills for "dragon-vampires", so I tried to at least empower the aerial combat aspect of this character. And I also am sure, that Echolocation (that funny skill nobody ever uses)
    is a good thing at its core, so I made an alternative skill, for which people might be more willing to lose their precious bomb slot (F).

    "Charging Kick"
    Key: RMB
    CD: similiar to Kidnap
    The Sentinel flies in a straight line (parallel to the ground; can not change direction; range roughly 2/3 of charge). The first enemy
    that is hit will be kicked by the Sentinel. He takes ~300 damage and is knocked back (Sentinel should hold position for a short moment or else
    it would probably be op).


    "Screech"
    Key: F
    CD: like Echolocation
    Soundwaves deal 100 damage to nearby enemies (radius ~300? = a little smaller than grenades from Hunter). Marks all enemies in a 2000 radius for the Sentinel (4 seconds).
    Can be used mid-air.




    Tyrant:
    We already had to learn, that Tyrant is no tanky guy, who is "soaking up damage" like his description suggests. By now, I'm ok with that.
    Now I think of him as a bull-necked brawler guy who is built around CC (Crowd-Control, like staggers and knockdowns) and exploding (if he tries to initiate without marathon).


    "In Your Face!"
    Key: RMB
    CD: 18 seconds
    The Tyrant deals a heavy hit to the enemy in front of him, deals ~380 damage and staggers the opponent(similiar animation and range as Throw; can't use skills immediately after this skill).

    "Headnut"
    Key: Q
    CD: similiar to Throw
    The Tyrant grabs a human and gives him a massive headnut. The human takes damage (290?) and receives the Debuff Blind (like Alchemists Vial or Hunters Blinding Shot) due to the impact.

    "Unstoppable"
    Key: F
    CD: 25 seconds
    The Tyrant takes reduced damage (35%? There should definitely be a significant difference to Ignore Pain) and can't be knocked down or staggered (Bola and Hex Shot still work. The idea is that this skill makes Jump more viable and provides new options for a rather tanky Tyrant.
    This is why it is assigned to the F key. It mightbe a option to only enable other skills but no melee attacks during Unstoppable's duration).


    Reaver
    The Dumahim (= Reaver) really like their weapons, killing devices and fighting techniques. So I think this tendency should be found in their skillset.

    "Splitter Bomb"
    Key: RMB or Q
    CD: around 20 seconds; depends on skillslot
    The Reaver throws a bomb that explodes after a short moment at the target location and shoots shrapnels in close distance.
    Humans in the area take up to 200 damage (depending on where the stand; area of explosion should be smaller than Sentinels bomb)
    In addition, Humans near the center of the explosion are staggered.

    "Garrote/Strangle"
    Key: RMB
    CD: similiar to Savage pounce
    The Reaver strangles his opponent with a string of metal. He must stand behind the enemy to use this skill. This skill has a short cast time (like shadowstep).
    The enemy receives damage similiar to Savage pounce (but only little ticks of damage, not ~400 instant). The Reaver can move slowly with his victim (similiar to movement speed during Hex Shot debuff).
    "There's some grim satisfaction in infuriating you." -Raziel

  2. #2
    I still think Echolocation needs to be relabeled as something that Turel didn't already have in Defiance. Sound was always his domain.

    The Turelim need tome sort of telekinetic ability even it it's not the projectiles. A Tug-Of-War type ability that gradually pulls enemies towards him would compliment his slow movement very well. Also an ability to levitate boulders that float along side his fists to increase melee range and damage.

    For the Razielim, there should be some sort of crop duster ability that does damage on the fly (pardon the pun). It should resemble flame as if from a dragon.

    The Zephonim should be able to enter a climbing mode where they can cling on to walls and move quickly in any direction without falling. It would have a time limit like haste and ignore pain.
    Last edited by Vampmaster; 17th Dec 2014 at 16:58.
    "If events are matched closely enough to course, they have a way of restructuring themselves to familiar outcomes." ~ Scorpius, Farscape

  3. #3
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    For the deciever I would like a mass hallucination skill, summons a round of vampires to attack humans, deal no damage, attacks pass through and dispersed early by explosives.

    I like the flying kick for sentinel, as he needs a skill that either lets him engage with his team, or combo's with dive bomb as an engage. I also think air strike could be tweaked to drop a cluster of timed bombs below the sentinel rather than a single grenade.

    The tyrant: I like the idea of the tyrant becoming a telekinetic black hole similar like vamp master said, but as an aura. Immobile humans would be pulled to him, humans running away would have reduced speed, humans running towards would have increased speed.

    I'm stuck for reaver though. Maybe something like a blink strike?
    In-game: Sirshua, being a sir everywhere.

  4. #4
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    Originally Posted by Vampmaster
    I still think Echolocation needs to be relabeled as something that Turel didn't already have in Defiance.

    Sound was his domain. The Turelim need tome sort of telekinetic ability even it it's not the projectiles. A Tug-Of-War type ability that gradually pulls enemies towards him would compliment his slow movement very well. Also an ability to levitate boulders that float along side his fists to increase melee range and damage.

    For the Razielim, there should be some sort of crop duster ability that does damage on the fly (pardon the pun). It should resemble flame as if from a dragon.

    The Zephonim should be able to enter a climbing mode where they can cling on to walls and move quickly in any direction without falling. It would have a time limit like haste and ignore pain.
    I can fully agree with you, it would be nice to make this game more according to LoK and the Vampires closer to their original idea. I especially like your skill idea for Sentinel, I imagine it like greek fire from above. Giving vampires skills that require at least SOME (d)evolution would also create some nice possibilities for the Rahabim design. The struggle with these guys is, that you can't give them skills according to lore which would make them unique, because all of their key features require relatively high (d)evolution. And at this point in Nosgoth, where even the Razielim and Turelim are relatively low (d)evolved, you can't make the offsprings of other lieutnants high evolved (here: 4th in birthorder Rahab can't get shark jaw and skin + spitting acid or sticky mucus)... this probably needs a separate thread XD I'll probably post a longer text in the (existing) Rahabim thread tomorrow.

    The idea about the Zephonim is also very nice, I could imagine a time-limited ability to climb the roof at the inside of buildings to snatch humans from above^^ But I don't know if this can work with the way Nosgoth is programmed, Psyonix probably won't change the whole code for one skill for us "LoK fanboys"...

    [EDIT] Maybe Echolocation should be completely removed from Sentinel. I don't like that they are pictured as bats although they should resemble dragons... Maybe it can be reused as a "blood smelling" skill for the shark-like Rahabim (which does not change the fact that this skill in its current state is useless)

    Originally Posted by Razaiim
    For the deciever I would like a mass hallucination skill, summons a round of vampires to attack humans, deal no damage, attacks pass through and dispersed early by explosives.

    (...)

    I'm stuck for reaver though. Maybe something like a blink strike?
    1. If there only was a skill like this, only 2 copies running towards the enemy would be so nice....:P
    2. I think for Reaver basically everything that involves different (rather silent) killing devices (Claws, Garrote, Bomb, My Little Pony DVDs...) or martial arts stuff can work (but please no more kicks or pounces XD)
    Last edited by Persiphas; 17th Dec 2014 at 01:10.
    "There's some grim satisfaction in infuriating you." -Raziel

  5. #5
    Hi guys,
    Been a while since I wanted to see a thread like this! Here's what I had lurking in my head for some time, hope you like some of those.

    DISCLAIMER: a couple of ideas - and please keep in mind that's exactly what they are - ideas! No lore or careful balance reasoning included, just some skills/moves/mechanics that could be cool if incorporated in some way.

    Tyrant:

    Boulder Toss [Q] - Break off a piece of debris from the surrounding environment and flung it towards your enemies, crushing the targets hit. Enemies close to the centre of the impact are staggered for a short duration.

    Bullrush [RMB] - Charge into battle, picking up the first target you collide with and slamming them into the ground or into a wall for additional bonus damage at the end of the ability. Other targets are knocked off upon contact.
    (NOTE: all credit goes to Bitey, I just really loved the idea and wanted to post it here for more people to see. You can read more about it and his other suggestions in his post - http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/sho...d.php?t=149028)

    Deceiver:

    Ghost [F] - Deceiver fades into darkness, teleporting forward for a short distance. For the next 5 seconds Deceiver can activate the ability again for the second time. A versatile offensive/escape tool. Visually it'll create a cool looking shadow (similar to those in the alternative execution) at the end of each teleport and hopefully will have some haunting sound.
    - Cast time: very fast
    - Travel distance: a little longer than a charged attack
    - Cooldown: 25 sec (inclusive of the first 5 sec where the ability can be activated for the second time)

    Assault [Q] - lunge onto an enemy, stabbing them with dual energy blades and knocking them off their feet, dealing damage (325 or so). While colliding with the target and knocking them down, Deceiver rolls forward. The skill would work similarly to Summoner's ability showcased in the demo: a very fast target circle appears and then the skill goes off. Usable from short roofs, if the target is in range.

    Clone [F] - a more aggressive version of Illusions, and a distraction/initiation tool. Once again, mechanics are similar to Summoner's: target a Human and create a Clone behind them. The Clone will emerge from stealth and open with a fake equipped [Q] ability (Backstab/Infect), followed by melee attacks. Not sure about the health pool and whether it should deal some low damage, but the point of the ability is to make the Clone *feel* real to increase the chance people will actually react to it.

    Asphyxiate [Q] - Invade your target's mind, making them think they have no air to breathe. A short incapacitate effect with low damage-over-time. I know how broken this can be, but a Human suddenly falling on their knees and gasping for breath would look pretty awesome on the battlefield. Like I said in the disclaimer, no balance considerations, just ideas!

    I also wanted to see a lot more magical abilities in the game. Initially I thought of these as Deceiver tools (my favourite class in case you haven't noticed yet), but now it looks like they'll aesthetically fit better with the Summoner:

    Void Tear [F] - Summon a blast of abyssal energy in the area, dealing damage (200 or so) and applying a slow effect on all the targets hit. Mechanics work similarly to Prophet's Disabling Curse, except for a slightly wider range.

    Death's Grasp / Void Grasp [F] - a single target variation of the above skill. Targets one Human and roots them in place for a short duration, dealing damage over time.

    Extras - these abilities are just thoughts, but I can't seem to place them into any particular class. Once again, I can imagine some of them being silly/owerpowered, it's just a concept/mechanic.

    Death Sentence [Q or F] - Cast a death wish on an enemy target, increasing damage dealt to them by X% for Y sec. While active, you take same increased damage. The last part of the ability is my attempt to balance it out. Additionally (similarly to Scout's Mark Target), the Human team will be able to see the endangered target, knowing that they need to protect them.

    Madness [F] - Fall into a state of bloodlust for the next 6 sec, increasing your damage dealt by 5% for each successful melee attack (up to a maximum of 20-25% extra damage). The duration, buff amount per stack and maximum bonus damage are obvious balance components. It takes time to ramp up to get the most out of the ability, so that the threat better get dealt with fast. Not sure whether it will fit better with Tyrant or Reaver, as to me it feels like a hybrid of Haste/Enrage.

    That's it for now, thanks for creating the threat as I was holding on to those for a long time! Looking forward to see more ideas from more people. I'll come back with more if my poor imagination has an enlightenment (really want to come up with something new for Sentinel RMB).

    P.S.: Love the "Relocate" suggestion for Deceiver!
    Last edited by -Konf-; 17th Dec 2014 at 04:00.

  6. #6
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    @ Konf

    What if for Boulder Toss, we make use of the new lore that says the Turelims use geomancy? The Tyrant hold out his hand and a vortex pulls in earth, then fuses it together to form the boulders.

  7. #7
    @ GenFeelGood

    Oh, true, geomancy! That links it well with the new lore, like you said. Calls for some spectacular animation! The mention of geomancy also gave an idea to:

    Earthquake [Q] - Use your geomancy power to create a tremor at a target location, causing eruption that deals damage and staggers nearby enemies. In order to not turn this into a complete ranged harass, the maximum cast distance should be a little farther than Shockwave's total reach. Mechanics and targeting similar to Prophet's Disabling Curse (maybe with a slightly wider area).

  8. #8
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    I've had an idea kinda similiar to "Madness", I wanted to spare it for a Rahabim post (one way to implement Rahabim without breaking the lore or creating redundant skills would be to make him a melee-poison-expert). But I think it might also work for Deceiver:
    The skill would be something like:
    "Poison Claws"
    CD: 25 seconds
    The Deceiver dips his claws into venomous liquid. For 6? seconds his melee attacks create 1 stack of a stacking debuff on the target (max 3 stacks). For each stack a DoT is placed on the target (sth like 5 damage per stack every 0.75 seconds -- rather low damage). If 3 stacks are accumulated on a target it suffers 200? instant damage and the debuff is removed.
    "There's some grim satisfaction in infuriating you." -Raziel

  9. #9
    Ooh this sounds fun :U

    For deceiver: Hinder Mind (special ability)
    Works like Dominate Mind, except instead of mind-controlling the human, it blurs their vision and slows their movement and attack speed for a few seconds. The deceiver is free to move as soon as he casts the skill. For balance's sake, the charge time is a little longer.

    I just wanted an alternate that's different enough from Dominate Mind that it's unique, but still be related to Dom. Mind.

    Also for deceiver: Distortion (second ability)
    Similar to Shroud in that the AoE is centered around the deceiver, but larger. Also, instead of turning semi-invisible and damaging nearby humans for 20 damage/tick, the deceiver's hands and eyes glow purple and nearby humans get their vision distorted (fish-eye lens effect, etc). This skill does not disable human attacks or skills. The deceiver is able to attack while using this skill. Bolas, knives, hex shot, etc. cancels the effect.

    Since deceivers traditionally have no reliable escape skill, I decided to play up that idea and make a high-risk skill entirely devoted to close-range harassment. I imagine this skill to be helpful with 1v1's and team fights.

    A human affected by both these skills would be put out of team fights for a good solid few seconds, unless saved by a teammate. Hinder Mind/Infect/Distortion would be the ultimate support kit for a deceiver. The only thing that might be an issue is motion sickness for players affected by these skills :x

    For sentinel: Screech (first ability) (also, sorry. bothering your other sentinel skill name)
    The sentinel screeches at humans in a large frontal AoE, much larger than Wing Flap. Holding down the first ability key channels this skill for a maximum of a few seconds; releasing the key puts the skill on cooldown. It does little damage, but any humans caught in the AoE are unable to move or attack. The effect ends as soon as the duration is over. Humans outside the AoE can cancel the skill with bola, knives, hex shot, etc.

    Trying to add team synergy to the sentinel's kit, besides dropping humans for allies to finish off and Dive Bomb/Takeoff, which are rarely used.

  10. #10
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    Hm. Deceiver definitely needs a few more skills, and so does Tyrant. I like Tyrant having some kind of pull ability to compensate for slowness, based in telekinesis - it fits the lore and also might compensate a bit for slowness. Balance wise though, not sure.

    Deceiver - he really needs some extra skills. The problem I have when I play it (admittedly I am not that great), is that you haven't got the manoeuvrability of the Reaver, and that Shroud and Illusions don't work amazingly well for escape etc. when things get hairy. Something that complemented Dominate Mind might be quite good, some kind of better way of dividing and conquering the humans by getting them to separate from each other more, or stay in one place when everyone else has to move. Something really wacky would be cool, but not sure about the animation side of things.
    Last edited by Sluagh; 18th Dec 2014 at 13:36.
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