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Thread: Continuing Soul Reaver and Legacy of Kain Tribute

Continuing Soul Reaver and Legacy of Kain Tribute

  1. #1
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    Continuing Soul Reaver and Legacy of Kain Tribute

    To not derail the previous anniversary thread, and to update this section with a bit of my work not really seen here, I'll make this happy, little thread.

    Many have seen my redo of the GlyphX Kain model from the Soul Reaver games:


    (click image to enlarge)


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    More pics and the process of Elder Kain

    And a couple better rendered images from my Lieutenant Raziel model seen back in September (sidetracked by things, which was unfortunate):


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    Early process conceptualizing Raziel

    I'm set to work again on it to finish his details. I've gotten a human Kain done, all skin and hair finished. I'm going to put redoing his armor on the back burner until I get Raziel's forms done, or at least start on wraith Raziel. Human Kain, rendered in Marmoset Toolbag 2:


    (click image to enlarge)

    Zbrush high poly:


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    With Armor:

    thumb=http://thehylden.deviantart.com/art/Human-Kain-Last-Hope-Armor-WIP-497129736][/thumb]


    More WIP pics from Zbrush

    More with the armor


    I've also done the Soul Reaver, which I am texturing for the various ages it was seen in. So, it's going to get progressively more craggy and worn. I've modeled it to take out the areas it chips in, and it can split in half, as seen in Soul Reaver 2. This is it newly forged, rendered in Marmoset:


    (click image to enlarge)


    So, there's more that I've done. I'll show Raziel when he's detailed as Kain is, and continue on the torch for remembering the series. Since it is the 15th anniversary of Soul Reaver, might as well keep it going this year.

    Maybe I'll be able to get back to the Pillars I was modeling

    Vae Victis!
    Last edited by The_Hylden; 1st Sep 2015 at 13:08. Reason: Fixing links and such

  2. #2
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    U tease! A new soul reaver game with the tech today would make a awesome story EVen more awesome!

    (click image to enlarge)

  3. #3
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    Make it the size of Skyrim, imagine playing Kain in Blood Omen and trying to find the Pillars for the 1st time by moving towards them as you keep your eyes on them as they stretch up into the clouds.

  4. #4
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    This work is all mindblowing as ever, Patrick, needless to say. Love the new Raziel. Hope you keep it up.
    "A return to Nosgoth is not necessarily always welcome: only the attainment of that final gnosis will satisfy us." – Sam Zucchi

  5. #5
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    Thanks, people Yes, I'll keep going. So many models left to do

  6. #6
    I imagine the other Lieutenants would be fairly easy once Raziel's done, since other than their heads, they would only need some tweaks to their proportions and stuff. It would be great to see a cutscene with these or even just a scene.
    "If events are matched closely enough to course, they have a way of restructuring themselves to familiar outcomes." ~ Scorpius, Farscape

  7. #7
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    This is sooooooooo AMAZING!!!!!!!!!! you have done absolutely amazing work - can't wait to see how things progress...keep going...really can’t wait to see more

  8. #8
    Well done!
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    Thanks, people I'd love to see a scene with these, too, Vampmaster. I've got everything in my head, from shot directions, to pacing. It's frustrating to not be able to bring it to life in a timely fashion.

  10. #10
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    The_Hylden, what software did you use to model/ texture ? They are lovely.

  11. #11
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    Hi, thanks

    I use Zbrush for the bulk of the modeling and texturing. For topology and initial UVing, 3D-Coat, fixes in 3Ds Max and Maya. I finish the texturing in Photoshop. A lot of bouncing around... But the majority of the high end stuff is in Zbrush.

  12. #12
    Wow, the best models I've seen!!!!! Great!
    I just joined this forum when I sow your work. I'm mechanical engineer, with huge passion for Legacy of Kain saga.
    I always wanted to make a real sword model (steel), and also 3D printed replica.
    As I am an engineer I use SolidWorks for modeling .



    This is the 3D model I have made couple of years ago in SolidWorks, but I never completed it since I was not able to model real looking scull for the model (not good with modeling such things, this scull model was downloaded I just added fangs).... I can make it with 3D printer, and later make real steel model... I just do not want to have it with ordinary looking scull, so I newer produced it. (I've seen a lot of real models online that are just not it without proper looking scull)

    Off course, I am open to suggestions on how to create or get the right model of the head for producing.
    I would really love to see the model come to life!
    Last edited by Lord_Aevum; 9th Jan 2015 at 23:52. Reason: merging consecutive posts

  13. #13
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    Hi deus-nemesis,

    Sorry that I haven't responded. I've been pretty busy with (thankfully) some paid commission work that sprung up. I've put the LoK stuff temporarily on hold while I do that.

    Anyway, the model for your sword looks very nice. I don't have SolidWorks, but the biggest suggestion I can make is if it has the ability to bring in a reference image to model from, placed on a plane within the scene, then definitely do that with the render from SR1's Reaver. That is how I made sure my own model was precisely the right dimensions. I agree that the scull has to be right or it doesn't feel like the real sword. It's not just the scull that makes the sword unique, the wings and how they wrap around it also truly bring the character of the Reaver to life. I hope the above helps, anyway.

    It certainly would be great to see your sword made into an actual steel sword.

  14. #14
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    Reviving this long, long dormant thread. A lot of time and events passed since last I posted, but I have finally updates to show. The dead links above are now live again and Vampire Raziel is ready to show. I technically didn't make it before the 15th anniversary of Soul Reaver was up, but a few days ago I was ready to show my recreation of the GlyphX Lieutenant vampire Raziel, having him in a neutral pose/stance and all parts finally working to my liking. He's rigged, mostly, so I'll be updating final poses to come. The wings will be tricky to pose. Maya's cloth systems -- well, most everything Maya -- causes issues on my computer...

    Without further ado:


    (click image to enlarge)


    (click image to enlarge)


    More pictures and the final process

    Additionally, since the human Raziel's skin was completely first, here is Raziel's floating human torso


    Besides Raziel, I've modified and finalized human Kain's proportions and skin. Here are those images:


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    (click image to enlarge)

    More pics at Hylden-Dimension


    I'll be working on his armor, finally. This is the armor in concept form from Zbrush, as I apparently never showed that here:


    (click image to enlarge)



    Aaaand, in further, further addition to this all, I might as well show the preliminary animation test of elder vampire Kain, after finally learning how to achieve it. Rigged and animated in Maya:






    More coming soon.


    ... VAE VICTIS!!



    (click image to enlarge)
    Last edited by The_Hylden; 1st Sep 2015 at 15:09.

  15. #15
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    You sir are a gawd!

    Pwetty pwease pull some strings and make sure theres a sequal to Defiance!

    (click image to enlarge)

  16. #16
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    Thanks I definitely do try to pluck whatever string I come across for interest in the series. It certainly deserves to have life again.

  17. #17
    been fallowing your work for quite a while and to be honest with you,
    I thought the first image was from the cgi cutscene O.o

    http://hylden-dimension.net/i-am-raz...s-lieutenants/

    I was trying to compare the other pics to the one on the top left and realized all of them were done in real time D:

    I was like man!! why does the cgi look so sharp? :P LOL!!!

    and then I notice the skin and shoulder pad look like candle wax, (that's probably new techniques for more realistic skin? : /)
    either way, I really appreciate how the fans always make fictional characters look more realistic.

    devs usually go the other way around regardless of horse power,
    they would rather make fictional characters look more fictional, and realistic characters more realistic.

    great job on the character models,
    I doubt we'll ever get a lok game that looks this good but great job anyway

  18. #18
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    Thanks Marmoset does have a tendency to make things a little waxy. It's a physically accurate renderer, though. I've never seen a perfect skin render really from it. This guy is about as close as I can imagine it getting:


    (click image to enlarge)

    By Glauco Longhi.

    Part of it is I'm attempting to simulate the high key sunlight of the intro with gets a little hot in spots and doesn't wind up feeling totally like the sun would, but anyway. It's a very good renderer for the price. Most of them are very expensive and you can't render in real time anyway. I'm thinking of trying to see what these models look like in Unity. The goal is to get these to work also for the Soul Revenant fan remake of SR1 that Raina Audron and team have been working on, and they're using Unity.


    It's interesting that you mention the realism aspect. SR2, while it could not match today's polygon counts, lighting, and shaders, what they were able to achieve in a lot of the texture work was aiming for a very gritty realism that, if they had similar polygon counts and resolutions, might be on par with Witcher 2-3 detail, or something like Dark Souls. So, I think it was a limitation of the time, more than anything. I think Soul Reaver 2, especially, was grasping ahead of its time in the fidelity department. Were a remake, or continuation to happen, I'd definitely want to return to that scope. I'm pretty adamant that every detail has to be right, also.

  19. #19
    Soul Reaver 2 seemed to use vertex colours, normals and the material colour all at the same time when the more common shader algorithms generally use one or the other. Some of the models even have a mysterious invisible layer that I suspect is to do with a secondary lighting effect.
    "If events are matched closely enough to course, they have a way of restructuring themselves to familiar outcomes." ~ Scorpius, Farscape

  20. #20
    Originally Posted by The_Hylden
    It's interesting that you mention the realism aspect. SR2, while it could not match today's polygon counts, lighting, and shaders, what they were able to achieve in a lot of the texture work was aiming for a very gritty realism that, if they had similar polygon counts and resolutions, might be on par with Witcher 2-3 detail, or something like Dark Souls. So, I think it was a limitation of the time, more than anything. I think Soul Reaver 2, especially, was grasping ahead of its time in the fidelity department. Were a remake, or continuation to happen, I'd definitely want to return to that scope. I'm pretty adamant that every detail has to be right, also.
    I don't know, I guess what I meant was.......


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    ever since the oddworld games went 3D,
    just looking at the cgi I really wish they would make more games like it.
    we get these new generation consoles/pc hardware and instead of shooting for realism,
    we get games looking more and more like cartoon/cell shaded..... : /

    maybe one day somebody might surprise me,
    maybe a new open world LOK with Zelda clone mechanics and cgi graphics?
    or maybe something else...... fingers crossed for new LOK :P

  21. #21
    That, Sir, is some marvelous work!

    I have to admit, I was really eager to see the finalized version of the Lieutenant Raziel model, when I first discovered this thread and saw all the effort already put into the Kain model! Simply amazing!

    Couldn't help but start fangirling a little... hahaha xD *puts on Ozar Midrashim*


    I applaud you! Hats off!
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    Thank you I appreciate it. I wish I could do more faster.

    @ Chulo86 I like that pseudo realistic version of cartoon characters, too. That reminds me, it was a shame that the realistic Zelda trailer for the Wii was nothing but a demo reel...

  23. #23
    Originally Posted by The_Hylden
    Thank you I appreciate it. I wish I could do more faster.

    @ Chulo86 I like that pseudo realistic version of cartoon characters, too. That reminds me, it was a shame that the realistic Zelda trailer for the Wii was nothing but a demo reel...
    for some reason I feel the gamecube and wii u tech demo's both ended up as twilight princes.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qUavULj4Bo

    I'm not too sure where did the boss fight for the gamecube took place but I do recognize the water temple with giant spider boss was from twilight princess.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_fyOkrteqM

    if you don't have any other projects is wraith raziel part of your to do list? :3

    man! just talking about this makes me really want a new game in the series. sequel, prequel, remake or spin off.....
    with real time cgi graphics like these!!! D:

    I think it's possible, the order 1886 can do it, so can halo 5, metal gear solid V, batman arkham knight, until dawn, uncharted 4.

    sigh. I still don't know what it's like to play nosgoth because it's not on consoles yet......
    but I hope psyonix can finish up so they can get started on LOK VI already.

  24. #24
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    I can't believe I missed this topic this whole time since I loved your last one. Great work as always, The Hylden. I just have to ask, how do you make all these things on Kain move? I know that the answer probably involves a lot of stuff I know nothing about and that I would have no clue what you even mean with your terms, but I just wonder looking at your Kain. Did you have to choose how his eyebrows would move frame by frame? Is there some program that helps with this? This is always one of the things I've wondered about. It seems like it would take a ton of time just to animate a few seconds.

  25. #25
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    Hi Zulg. My Internet was terrible for a bit and it took me some time to get something finally working. I forgot to get to this thread to answer you, but I wanted to when I had the ability to show some examples with a working Internet connection.


    What you have to do is create a skeleton, with is a series of points called joints, or bones, within the mesh. Then you bind the mesh to those joints via skinning. So, certain sections are mapped to certain joints and you blend to the next to get a soft, natural way the model moves. I mean, if 100% of the shoulder is mapped to one joint, that entire section will move at the same rate, and it will look terrible. You do this different ways in different programs. In Maya, which is what I'm using, you "paint" the weights, meaning you use a brush and kind of paint the falloff with a gradient over the body on what section you want to work with what joint. You can also soft select a group of the polygon vertices to do the same, which is more what 3Ds Max does, though you can in Maya to a degree, too. There are different ways to rig the face, but mine is also done with joints.

    Beyond that, after testing how the mesh moves, inevitably there will be parts that do not move naturally, even with a proper skinning, and so the other way to fix this is with blend shapes, or also called morph targets. That means I take a copy of the model in a pose and sculpt out the fixes for what it should look like, say when the arm is bent. This also allows me to bulge his bicep out when the arm is bent, or bulge out his tricep when it's fully straight, for instance. This is great, sine Maya's muscle system didn't want to work for me. The program can them blend in that model with the original as the arm bends when animated. The face is also using a muscle spline system, which is essentially the program doing the deforming more like muscles would when the face moves.

    For the face, I saved poses for each phoneme, or the visual equivalent, viseme, which are standardized sounds that make up words. Like, ah, er, ee, etc. They wind up looking something like this:


    (click image to enlarge)

    Not quite as animated as that and I posed Kain's face to feel more like how Simon Templeman's mouth moves and someone speaking high tongue British, which would be a bit different than an American movement. So, I get those poses saved and also some expressions with the eyebrows, or him roaring, and then I can quickly call those poses up along the timeline. I can also blend between them to create new looks. I can also further tweak any joint at any time. With the sound added to a track of the animation, I sink up the poses at the start of him speaking, or the start of a sound, and as it plays, the program can blend between the poses. So, no it's not frame-by-frame. It's done with keyframes at certain sections. Sometimes, it can wind up being consecutive frames for a certain movement in the body that's not blending right, but mostly it's every few frames, or so.

    And with all of that in text form, here's an example video of what I mean:

    (start at 12 minutes 14 second in)

    Just the basics of how the animation blends between keyframes. It didn't take too long to do the animation once I did have the model rigged and the poses stored.




    I'm setting up hopeful treatment for my health issues, finally. I haven't, until recently, been going all-out on the models, but I am working on human Kain's armor and I hope it's a week out, roughly, from being able to show. Or so...
    Last edited by The_Hylden; 4th Oct 2015 at 22:27.

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