Thread: Vampyr Sentinel Skin

Vampyr Sentinel Skin

  1. #26
    Originally Posted by CountEyokir
    Right - my two cents on this. -- (and warning - I am going to be angry here so I am not going to be diplomatic)

    Sorry but on THIS series its not the older fans who have to bend to accommodate the newer ones. Oh no. Its the newbies who either do or not not assimilate with us. We won't rewrite the LoK franchise just to have 'cool stuff' to play with. Nosgoth is sort of our pitch effort to get newer fans interested in its lore so we can get a proper SP game. You don't like that.. let me show you the door.
    ^This.

    I said before that LoK might be too smart for you, too difficult to comprehend; that's fine there are hundreds of "easier" games out there.

  2. #27
    Originally Posted by CountEyokir
    Right - my two cents on this.
    Originally Posted by NickTsiou
    I said before that LoK might be too smart for you, too difficult to comprehend; that's fine there are hundreds of "easier" games out there.
    Watch it there. I've already explained multiple times how none of this (and even much more complicated things than that) can be used without having to change a single dent in the original story. Your defensiveness is uncalled for, your franchise isn't at risk, and no new guy here is trying to change the world to his likeness.

    As I've said I'm not ignorant of the rich story from the Legacy of Kain nor do I want to change its universe, and assuming that what I commented is going to do that is something only a wounded, attacked person would do. Is that you? I don't think so. You're not at risk here, nor the game, nor the franchise.

    If you don't like it, that's... Cool, I suppose. That is your right, just don't panic over it. Nothing bad is gonna happen.
    By the Ancients... If someone posed as a developer came in here and made the same topic with some witless, rushed up makeshift story for it you'd go all "Yaaaay..." So what is the matter?

  3. #28
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    Originally Posted by GoldenXan
    If someone posed as a developer came in here and made the same topic with some witless, rushed up makeshift story for it you'd go all "Yaaaay..."
    I'm not so sure of that.
    "A return to Nosgoth is not necessarily always welcome: only the attainment of that final gnosis will satisfy us." – Sam Zucchi

  4. #29
    Right. Some people would that, that's what I mean.
    Make it official and suddenly it's not that terrible, was my point.

  5. #30
    Originally Posted by GoldenXan
    By the Ancients... If someone posed as a developer came in here and made the same topic with some witless, rushed up makeshift story for it you'd go all "Yaaaay..." So what is the matter?


    George Kellion might tell you another story there

  6. #31
    Originally Posted by CountEyokir
    Right - my two cents on this. -- (and warning - I am going to be angry here so I am not going to be diplomatic)

    No...... flatly...no. The Ancient's or even their likeness have no business being in this era whatsoever. And as for interpretations..... no. Wanting them in this era simply for the gameplay sake is pure . That isn't a reinterpretation that's a full blown retcon. It messes with the franchise' very solid established timeline and turns it upside down.

    Sorry but on THIS series its not the older fans who have to bend to accommodate the newer ones. Oh no. Its the newbies who either do or not not assimilate with us. We won't rewrite the LoK franchise just to have 'cool stuff' to play with. Nosgoth is sort of our pitch effort to get newer fans interested in its lore so we can get a proper SP game. You don't like that.. let me show you the door.
    Originally Posted by NickTsiou
    ^This.

    I said before that LoK might be too smart for you, too difficult to comprehend; that's fine there are hundreds of "easier" games out there.
    These are full exaggeration and wrong assumptions. A bit sad for the proper discussion before.

    Your "dont like it, get out" attitude is not likely to get you new titles. Its more likely to get you budgets and or whole projects (Dead sun?) cut.



    Tradition is means passing on the fire and not watching the ashes.

  7. #32
    I haven't seen so many posts saying that Sentinels and Prophets don't belong here, so yes, I'm serious. Of course, there were a pretty good background for them, and I know that there will be for any future content as well.

    I'm glad you're having such a good time CountEyokir, I like to make people feel happier when I can.

  8. #33
    First off dead sun can go burn. I am glad that project was cancelled and will gladly pour more oil onto its smouldering ashes to get it blazing again.

    Secondly - having Ancient Vampires appear in Kain's empire isn't just reinterpretation or being clever. That is fanfiction. There is no reason for them to be here at all. They're extinct. It'd be like having dinosaurs leap in to start fighting. If you wanna do 'Nosgoth 2' and have them against Hylden classes (during another era of Nosgoth's history ) then go right ahead. There are new clever entries you can make yes, such as Prophets and alchemists for example - then there are elements that are just plain ridiculous.

    If LoK's survival means turning its story upside down to please new viewers then I say let it stay dead.

  9. #34
    Originally Posted by GoldenXan
    I haven't seen so many posts saying that Sentinels and Prophets don't belong here, so yes, I'm serious. Of course, there were a pretty good background for them, and I know that there will be for any future content as well.

    I'm glad you're having such a good time CountEyokir, I like to make people feel happier when I can.
    Wait, are you saying you think the Sentinals and Prophets are already so far fetched that anything goes and that you're now just giving sarcastic suggestions?

    Maybe you're not saying that. Have I just misunderstood?
    "If events are matched closely enough to course, they have a way of restructuring themselves to familiar outcomes." ~ Scorpius, Farscape

  10. #35
    Originally Posted by FireWorks911
    These are full exaggeration and wrong assumptions. A bit sad for the proper discussion before.

    Your "dont like it, get out" attitude is not likely to get you new titles. Its more likely to get you budgets and or whole projects (Dead sun?) cut.



    Tradition is means passing on the fire and not watching the ashes.

    If only you would know what Dead Sun would be you wouldn't say that (or perhaps you would cause you don't seem to care about the lore so much, only pew pew). This attitude is about preserving the magnificence of the saga, WE actually are only a handful of people that try to pass the fire, where you suggest to put it out and light a new one and pretend it is the same.

    GoldenXan: I have voiced my opinion on the prophets and the skins for the Razielim, and their silly lore, so many times so just don't suppose things please.

  11. #36
    Originally Posted by Vampmaster
    Maybe you're not saying that. Have I just misunderstood?
    Yes, I'm not saying that. No, they are definitely not far fetched, but they are not far fetched because they (Psyonix) created stories for them. There were no Razielim at all as far as we are concerned with the original games, you see, yet they found their way in, and I think they are great. I think the team was creative at putting them, and I'm saying they can do that same thing for whatever they think it's good enough and important enough to be made real.

    Originally Posted by NickTsiou
    GoldenXan: I have voiced my opinion on the prophets and the skins for the Razielim, and their silly lore, so many times so just don't suppose things please.
    Hum... Alright then. I won't do that anymore. I was talking in general terms, you see.

  12. #37
    In general terms then, the average person playing Nosgoth is a COD/CS fan, what do you expect? they are all in for a bazooka-class that rides a tank and is a cyborg.

  13. #38
    Originally Posted by GoldenXan
    Yes, I'm not saying that. No, they are definitely not far fetched, but they are not far fetched because they (Psyonix) created stories for them. There were no Razielim at all as far as we are concerned with the original games, you see, yet they found their way in, and I think they are great. I think the team was creative at putting them, and I'm saying they can do that same thing for whatever they think it's good enough and important enough to be made real.
    The difference is that Kain never actually said "Yeah, I killed them all myself single handedly". It was made clear that Kain was goading Raziel into a fight. If he had said something like that (phrased a bit better, anyway), I'd probably be right there yelling and screaming with everybody else when Psyonix tried to bring them back.
    "If events are matched closely enough to course, they have a way of restructuring themselves to familiar outcomes." ~ Scorpius, Farscape

  14. #39
    Yes that's why the fact that the Razielim are present is the least of my concerns. My primary problem with them is their default 5 fingered skin that still has wings and the lame excuses/lore behind it; though this is not the time nor the place for this conversation. As it seems we have much serious problems, with people that are willing to break the lore (a la breaking the law :P ) in order to add cool things.

  15. #40
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    I'll just add that even the original Ancients were called vampires, not ''vampyrs''. Daniel Cabuco used the term ''Vampyre'' but that only appeared in the concept art, in the game they are refered to as ''Ancient vampires'', ''the Ancients'' or simply vampires.

    And about including them in the game... Devs already said they won't add the Ancients nor Hylden to the game because those races are not present during this time.

  16. #41
    Well, I'm sure you'd know this better than I do, but I could have sworn that I've heard the term Vampyr and Vampyre multiple times in Soul Reaver 2. However, I was a little surprised that the term wasn't really mentioned at the Wiki that much.

    Again, I wasn't saying to add Ancients or Hylden, but something that was visually akin to an Ancient out of coincidence, not a real bloodline or cultural relationship, but I won't be discussing this anymore, the idea was laid out extensively and I've explained myself multiple times. Perhaps I should have done it better in the original post, but I thought that -esque-ish was indication enough of what I was talking about.

    If you are curious enough to want to know what I've said, take a look at my answers to lucinvampire.

    Edit: I think that the term Vampyr might have been a misinterpretation from whoever wrote the game's subtitles, and I took it for granted. Not sure.

    Edit 2:
    Originally Posted by GoldenXan
    But hey, here's food for thought. Vampires were originally humans... They devolve (or evolve) into something else, but they all started with five fingers and five toes, right? Is it really such a coincidence, then, that all of them acquire two pointy toes and three pointy bony fingers when they evolve, just like the Vampyrs, or is it that their curse does somehow passes something of their physical attributes to the current Vampires?
    Last edited by GoldenXan; 5th Jul 2014 at 18:29.

  17. #42
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    The only written form of vampire as ''vampyre'' is in the concept art for the stained glass mural of Janos being murdered, but it was never written like that in any of the games.

    Yeah, I know you mentioned that, I wasn't specifically replying to you.. Just expressing thougths that we should try to avoid putting those races in just for the ''cool'' effect. However, I think also there is no reason why should they look any similar to the Ancients (Raziel had no idea what they looked like until he travelled back in time) and explaining it just as a ''coincidence'' doesn't cut it for me.

    As to the question about the vampires: No, it is not an coincidence. Ancient Vampires had three fingers+2toes and this characteristic was carried upon the newly created vampires from humans (it took a long time to acquire those features). Humans who were turned into vampires all start with 5fingers and toes bec. they were humans at first, unlike the Ancients.

  18. #43
    I see.
    Raziel (and others) compared himself, as far as I remember, to the Ancients at some points because he also happened to be blue and winged. That's one connection that made me think about something comparable but not exactly related.

    I also happened to have played both Soul Reaver games in portuguese, so there's that.

    And I find this idea that they passed along some traits to be very interesting. Could that not be good enough reason to explain certain similarities then? Of course, the fingers are things which every regular Vampire has, but in time they all took different evolutionary paths, so could not a ramification have taken more traits from them, or traits that happened to be more visually comparable?
    Like I said, creativity can bring anything to life, really. I'm not hoping for this though, I happen to be almost indifferent, I'm just adding to the possibility.

  19. #44
    In the Razielim lore you find this:

    "Away from the eyes of the world, the Razielim festered in the darkness for decades. Starved of blood and sapped of life, the beautiful forms with which they had emerged from their pupation began to warp and degenerate. Once fair skin became hardened and chitinous, digits became disjoined and bone came to protrude from their new wings, lending them an appearance more demonic than Vampiric. Fearful that their mental faculties would deteriorate along with their physical form, the Razielim were left with but one recourse – they would have to claw their way out." -Found Here.

    Would this mean that if they now made new Razielim vampires and they emerged from pupation and actually got fed, they would have their former more beautiful forms? And if so, would this be grounds for a new skin?
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  20. #45
    That's a good point but I think that the ones who actually got fed became what the Evolved Skin looks like, more human in their appearance.

  21. #46
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    Originally Posted by Makignian
    Would this mean that if they now made new Razielim vampires and they emerged from pupation and actually got fed, they would have their former more beautiful forms? And if so, would this be grounds for a new skin?
    Originally Posted by GoldenXan
    That's a good point but I think that the ones who actually got fed became what the Evolved Skin looks like, more human in their appearance.
    Yes, that's correct.

  22. #47
    I'm all for keeping the lore intact w/ respect to the timeline, but I would like to see an evolved Razielim skin color variation with hints toward the ancients (rather than a skin intended to represent an ancient.)

    For example, slightly bluish skin with ashen wings and light colored clothing. None of these things are necessarily exclusive to the ancients, and don't really need to be justified by the lore ... much like the cowl or tear-marks, they would merely be visual cues to represent their ancestry. Besides, similar stretches on skin-tone and dress are already exhibited by the existing skins (i.e. I don't remember any white Turelim in the original games except Turel himself.)
    Last edited by PencileyePirate; 6th Jul 2014 at 05:25.

  23. #48
    The truth is that variety on evolved skins would be awesome, even though blueish skin isn't my cup of tea. They could be just available with runestones as far as I care, but certainly more attention to that would be more than welcomed. After all the moment I got my evolved skins I almost lost any interest in the game as I had nothing left to pursue.

  24. #49
    Bro, who cares about lore? Lore is for nerds. Just make cool looking skins. The current ones suck.

    /thread

  25. #50
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    Originally Posted by BR0sephStalin
    Bro, who cares about lore? Lore is for nerds. Just make cool looking skins. The current ones suck.
    Welcome to the Legacy of Kain fandom
    Story and lore have been the primary concern of the series for about 18 years so naturally people are a bit protective of it and loads of people care about it. The trick is to make things cool without rubbishing it.
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    Join us and help write the history of Nosgoth at the Legacy of Kain Wiki encyclopedia

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