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Thread: Ideas for the new Deus Ex

Ideas for the new Deus Ex

  1. #26
    Originally Posted by johntravoltadenton
    Also, there should be some tributes to original DX. Like grenade climbing. Imagine the situation: you level up, buy yourself a skill "grenade climbing", walk up to the wall, and, if you have at least 4 grenades (will explain later why 4), you climb up the wall!

    Why 4? It shouldn't look like in DX where you just walked on a grenade and then on the next one. It's 2014 at all. There should be 4 grenades necessary, 2 for legs and 2 for arms. See, you first attach the leg grenades, then arms grenades, climb up, then you take one leg grenade, attach it on a higher point, grab it, put one leg on free arm-grenade, take second leg-grenade, attach it higher, put second leg on second arm-grenade, climb up and again from the beginning. In 3-rd person game it would look awesome (and a little funny easter-eggy too), but in 1st person game it would rock too.
    I...I just....NO!

    *sigh*

  2. #27
    Originally Posted by johntravoltadenton
    IMO DX4 should be a decent game for stealth-fans. Decent stealth game is game in which:
    1. You don't have to kill, or even attack (unconscious) ANY character. So no bosses.
    2. You can complete the game not being seen by anyone
    3. If you do the above, noone in the game is even be aware of your existence. No talking like "I heard Sarif's god, Adam Jensen, can disappear when he wants"
    4. You don't even have to directly talk to anyone (extension of rules 2. and 3.)

    Also, it should be a decent cyberpunk RPG game. So:
    1. You can hack anything and retrieve any information
    2. You can complete most (if not all) missions by espionage and using of information
    3. You can communicate (not necessarily talk, look stealth rule 4) with people from some kind of Underground (I assume there will be Underground in DX4) and give them information you retrieved to influence the story/ending.
    4. You encounter morally difficult decisions.

    THAT would be an awesome game.
    I thought you were describing DX for a moment there. Only like 2 of your points that aren't in the game.

  3. #28
    Grenade... climbing... ?

    Huh wtf?

    Grenade Climbing, that's what you came up with?

  4. #29
    Originally Posted by Adrian Shephard
    I thought you were describing DX for a moment there. Only like 2 of your points that aren't in the game.
    None of those points is in original DX. You can't complete all quests (side-quests inluded) not attacking anyone. You can't even do that in half of the missions available. You can't complete the game not being seen. Most obvious example is getting arrested by Gunther, but there is a thousand more examples of that. No matter how hard you try, people will be also aware of your existence (both in DX and DXHR - I didn't play Invisible War so don't know how's there). You can't also complete ANY mission in DX not talking to anyone.

    In original DX you can hack every computer, but in most cases it's not worth time. You can't do anything with most of information retrieved. Also, in DX there was no real espionage and using of information. This game was never meant to be like that. You can't give the NSF any valuable information in DX (as far as I remember), and none of the decisions you make in DX is morally difficult - all of them are really obvious.

    Tl;dr while original DX is a great game, it didn't meet any of my requirements for a (stealth-based) game to be remembered for all times.

  5. #30
    Then why does it consistently top lists of greatest games of all time? Many of your points are decidedly un-Deus Ex, like the idea of not ever talking to anyone. The game is not about avoiding interaction. It's a stealth-action game, not a pure stealth game. It always has been.

    The game you're describing is much more similar to Thief or Dishonored.
    Speed up the accelerating returns, 'cause carbon doesn’t work, I want to evolve and operate at terahertz.

  6. #31
    Tl;dr while original DX is a great game, it didn't meet any of my requirements for a (stealth-based) game to be remembered for all times.
    The "my requirements" are the key words in your sentence.

    1. You don't have to kill, or even attack (unconscious) ANY character. So no bosses.
    I think there is a way to not kill anyone in the original DX (not using killphrases either). Other than that, you don't have to attack anyone in the original game if you don't count killphrases.

    2. You can complete the game not being seen by anyone
    You can do this, though I don't know if you literally mean "seen" or if you're implying "detected". If it's the latter, than yes you can do this. If it's the former, then I don't know why you don't want to be seen in a FPS...even Splinter Cell had times where you were seen.

    Most obvious example is getting arrested by Gunther, but there is a thousand more examples of that.
    There aren't "a thousand more examples". Maybe 1 or 2, but I'm sure not more.

    3. If you do the above, noone in the game is even be aware of your existence. No talking like "I heard Sarif's god, Adam Jensen, can disappear when he wants"
    This is in DX also. I'm pretty sure no one talks about JC. If they do, it's probably MJ12, and remember that they created you so of course they know about your existence.

    4. You don't even have to directly talk to anyone (extension of rules 2. and 3.)
    I don't understand why this would make a game good...? If this is supposed to be an extension of your own life, then I don't think this can apply to a video game with similar success . But anyway, you can skip a good portion of the conversations in the original DX if you know the keycodes/secrets ahead of time. This point isn't completely satisfied by DX, I agree.

    1. You can hack anything and retrieve any information
    ...
    In original DX you can hack every computer, but in most cases it's not worth time. You can't do anything with most of information retrieved.
    You may think it isn't worth the time to hack computers, but I sure did. Even emails with seemingly "useless" subjects gave some backstory on the world in DX. Datacubes/books/emails were the way the writers fleshed out the characters/atmosphere. If you can't appreciate that, then that's your fault, not the game's.

    2. You can complete most (if not all) missions by espionage and using of information
    You can complete missions using espionage. There always was a way to finish a mission undetected and using information acquired throughout the level (keycodes, paths, etc). If you want more, see Splinter Cell.

    3. You can communicate (not necessarily talk, look stealth rule 4) with people from some kind of Underground (I assume there will be Underground in DX4) and give them information you retrieved to influence the story/ending.
    This is mighty specific. This is also extremely subjective, more so than the other points.

    4. You encounter morally difficult decisions.
    A weak point of DX, I know. At least the ending (especially Tong's) was somewhat difficult for me.



    What you want isn't Deus Ex, it's something more similar to Splinter Cell. Not being seen at all and not talking to anyone are two points that will ruin Deus Ex; storytelling will be greatly affected if the devs work with these two requirements in place.

  7. #32
    Needs moar regerative health and action.

    Needs more dumb AI and handholding.

  8. #33
    Originally Posted by OneUp77
    Needs moar regerative health and action.

    Needs more dumb AI and handholding.
    You forgot contextual jumping and love affairs.

  9. #34
    Originally Posted by OneUp77
    Needs moar regerative health and action.
    .
    I think the game does need more action (if you choose the action/combat playstyle). The original DX featured more action than Human Revolution, though it featured more content in general (not including aesthetic detail density per map as HR wins there) and was a longer game so this is a given.
    Basically I think DX4 needs more content comparible to DX1, and visuals should be sacrificed to achieve this, which is why I wish they'd use the Crystal engine again: to recycle some assets from before, within reason, which will save a lot of time and money to invest elsewhere rather than starting from scratch. this doesn't mean limited interactivity or takedowns have to return, what was done in DX3 can be changed. Not only this but they had became skilled in Crystal's use which obviously is an advantage.

    Don't forget DX1 had health regen and it was the most insanely OP type of regen in video games to date perhaps, but it was at least optional, relied on a limited resource, had to be turned on and was given to you 1/3rd of the way through the game though. Doesn't change the fact of how OP it was, but these things make it somewhat forgivable, especially the optional aspect.

    All stuff I've said before, but worth repeating.

    Originally Posted by OneUp77
    Needs more dumb AI and handholding.
    Originally Posted by Adrian Shephard
    You forgot contextual jumping and love affairs.
    Many tears would be shed.

    Originally Posted by LeMoN_LiMe
    See Deus Ex 1

    Take out 3rd Person animations.

    That is all.
    How would you make Deus Ex 1 better then? I'm fishing for ideas, not that I've ran out, but I just may not be seeing something. Plus Deus Ex was far from perfect (still the GOAT though).

  10. #35
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    I'm 90% sure we've had this discussion already.

    Things HR did better: hacking, covo battles, gunplay, Exploring verticality in hubs (ILS).
    The one good innovation in IW that HR expanded, but can be taken further: weapon mods/customization.
    Things DX can do better: melee combat. See Dark Messiah of Might + Magic, possibly Riddick (haven't gotten far in that game, but hand to hand was neat, dunno about melee weapons).
    Movement system-Mirror's edge remains king when it comes to first person movement scheme. At the very least, put in in Thief's mantling.

    That's the technical stuff off the top of my head.
    Bring back 5 character logins.

  11. #36
    Originally Posted by Tverdyj
    I'm 90% sure we've had this discussion already.
    Yeah, like four months ago when this topic was posted, and two months ago when it was last posted in.

    Originally Posted by Tverdyj
    Things HR did better: hacking, covo battles, gunplay, Exploring verticality in hubs (ILS).
    Absolutely not. There are invisible ceilings in Human Revolution that make it so you can't jump past a certain point. On top of the that the ILS locks you into a canned animation, and has a habit of interrupting long-jump attempts, forcing you straight to the ground. Combine that with third-person ladder climbing and there was nothing better about the verticality in HR at all.

  12. #37
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    Originally Posted by Shralla
    Yeah, like four months ago when this topic was posted, and two months ago when it was last posted in.



    Absolutely not. There are invisible ceilings in Human Revolution that make it so you can't jump past a certain point. On top of the that the ILS locks you into a canned animation, and has a habit of interrupting long-jump attempts, forcing you straight to the ground. Combine that with third-person ladder climbing and there was nothing better about the verticality in HR at all.
    Given I don't see any post by my old 5-character-long-name-which-cannot-be-re-registered in this thread, I'm guessing me and CyberP had this discussion in some other thread before

    As for verticality--As i've said i'm talking about the hubs. In particular the Yuzhao district of Hengsha. I remember the invisible war in the harbour you couldn't climb over, and yes, it was annoying.

    My love for ILS has to do with it eliminating one of the biggest annoyances of FPS games with exploration elements--falling to your death due to a poorly time jump. I don't like the 3rd person cutscenes (given the post before mine was CyberPs endorsing the removal of 3rd person cutscenes I assumed it was implied, but I see I forgot to quote it), and I agree we don't need 3rd person to climb a ladder.
    Last edited by Tverdyj; 20th Dec 2014 at 18:23.
    Bring back 5 character logins.

  13. #38
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    Originally Posted by Tverdyj
    I'm guessing me and CyberPhad
    Now now, no need to be calling anyone names!
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  14. #39
    Originally Posted by Tverdyj
    My love for ILS has to do with it eliminating one of the biggest annoyances of FPS games with exploration elements--falling to your death due to a poorly time jump..
    Speak for yourself, I love first person platforming. It shouldn't take long to get used to the last-second timing of a jump

  15. #40
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    Originally Posted by FrankCSIS
    Now now, no need to be calling anyone names!
    Exactly; we must all strive to be better human-beings.
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