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Thread: Afterwords: Stephane Roy Sheds More Light on Thief

Afterwords: Stephane Roy Sheds More Light on Thief

  1. #326
    Originally Posted by Viktoria
    ...including 3P and even a new lead character, if I recall correctly.
    It's funny how the shroud seems to be a remnant of the TPS phase.
    This strange smoke was surrounding Garrett to show the player he was hidden (as saw on the artbook). It's a great idea for a TPS.

  2. #327
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    I always liked the shroud so would have wanted it in the game, no matter what..
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  3. #328
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    Originally Posted by knox140
    Viktoria, all the evidence has been shown and explained to you... People don't believe this just because of the word of 3rd party articles, but because of the solid facts that have been linked and proven time and time again- the long development time, the large scale and high profile departures from the team, and the fact that the game was actually completely changed from a sequel to a reboot years into development. That is why we choose to believe that there were problems, not because the Kotaku article said so... While you believe that there weren't significant development problems based on absolutely nothing except the word of two people who were working at the company in question? And you call US gullible? Yeah... that doesn't make any sense.

    Oh, and if you're gonna try and say again that all of those things happen normally in other games, like you did last time this topic was bought up, I expect examples of games with healthy cycles that had the same issues as Thief did- a long development time, high profile departures from the staff etc. if you can't provide examples, then I see no reason why you should believe that that sort of thing is normal in the first place.

    Believe what you want, in the end, but don't try and invalidate the opposing argument by calling it a "conspiracy theory" when in fact YOU are the on who is going against the factual evidence.


    Mission Statement from EM during the production of Thi4f:

    https://web.archive.org/web/20100125...erence-en.html

    Our mission, at EIDOS-MONTREAL, is simple: to continue the pursuit of excellence that is the hallmark of Eidos products and to reach a broad market of gamers.

    To attain this objective, we are banking on four strategic choices:

    AAA games, designed to earn world-wide critical acclaim and commercial success.

    2. Next-generation games for Xbox 360, PS3 and PC consoles, and for the Wii.

    3. Longer production cycles - approximately 24 months - to give our teams time to develop high quality games.

    4. Closely-knit teams that do not exceed 80 people.

    (As you can see, at EIDOS-MONTREAL, we don't confuse video game development with assembly-line production.)

    True, one or the other of these four strategic factors often show up in game companies' business plans. However, the four are rarely seen together, and it is even more unique to see them make up a studio's mission.

    That's what makes EIDOS-MONTREAL different!
    so they were aiming for a 2 year release for the Thi4f sequel project, until something went terribly wrong and they got rid of the producer, audio director, Stephen Russell and others.

    then they started the nuThief reboot project with some new leads and it ended up being a big mess - sounds like they didn't have any real inspiration or direction - it's not hard to see why they went through development hell.

    things would have been much better for everyone if they listened to the fans and honored the Thief franchise.

  4. #329
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    I am enjoying the speculation.... but that's all it is for me unless I hear to the contrary.
    I clearly remember Freyja getting quite upset with these unfounded accusations and she set the record straight in the thread at the time. "Development hell" never happened.
    But others can believe what they want, of course.

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  5. #330
    Originally Posted by Viktoria
    I am enjoying the speculation.... but that's all it is for me unless I hear to the contrary.
    I clearly remember Freyja getting quite upset with these unfounded accusations and she set the record straight in the thread at the time. "Development hell" never happened.
    But others can believe what they want, of course.

    As someone who has been paid to work in positions similar to Freyja's, I can say this. It's your job to run damage control. That doesn't necessarily mean you are paid to lie, but you are most definitely paid to spin focus away from subjects you don't want out in the open for several years after the fact, when you're not trying to earn back your initial investment.

    You get paid to downplay and soothe fears. The same thing happened with TDS and years later we found out that the atmosphere during development turned a tad bit toxic. I won't be surprised to hear similar things went on with Thief 2014.

  6. #331
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    Freyja was genuinely upset at the unfounded accusations; she wasn't downplaying or soothing fears.
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  7. #332
    Originally Posted by Viktoria

    Freyja was genuinely upset at the unfounded accusations; she wasn't downplaying or soothing fears.
    If you don't mind me asking; what exactly did Freyja say? I must've been off the forums at the time it happened.

  8. #333
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    I can't disclose private conversations, obviously, but if you check her post history, you will see all the public comments she made on this matter, and other topics. Here is one regarding the development rumour:


    Seriously, guys, a scarlet letter to mark non-Trufans? This is not the kind of inclusive, welcoming community we were going for here.

    And while we're at it, it would be great if people who DON'T work at EM would knock it off with the "development hell" stuff, talking as though they know what's going on in my office.

    http://forums.eidosgames.com/showpos...&postcount=339
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  9. #334
    Originally Posted by Viktoria
    I always liked the shroud so would have wanted it in the game, no matter what..
    I agree. Truth to be told, I like it a lot more than the light gem. Actually I play the game without the light gem (and all the UI elements turned off), using the shroud and the light reflection on Garrett's hands for light-shadow detection. The game is much more immersive that way.

  10. #335
    On the whole "development hell" thing - it was all based on reports in the media, news articles published on reputable web sites. You can hardly blame the fans for at least paying them some heed. If you saw an article on CNN, you'd pretty much assume it was true. There's no guarantee of that of course, but you certainly wouldn't out and out disregard it just because you didn't witness the event personally.

    Plus, let's be honest, Freyja was in charge of web content, she's likely not going to be a part of all the big confidential meetings involving the dev team and the executive producers and all the other higher ups responsible for designing the game. She would definitely be on the outside looking for any internal office politics.
    "I can see only one good thing coming from a Thief 4. Mark my words on this one. It will make people love Deadly Shadows." -Digital Nightfall (4/4/2008)

  11. #336
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    Originally Posted by brethren
    Plus, let's be honest, Freyja was in charge of web content, she's likely not going to be a part of all the big confidential meetings involving the dev team and the executive producers and all the other higher ups responsible for designing the game. She would definitely be on the outside looking for any internal office politics.
    If by "Let's be honest" you mean "let me make conjecture on something I have no idea on about a person who worked directly out of the Eidos Montreal studio and practically knew everyone on a first name basis in a veiled attempt to discredit her..."

    There is such a thing as daily inter-department meetings in this industry.
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  12. #337
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    Originally Posted by brethren
    On the whole "development hell" thing - it was all based on reports in the media, news articles published on reputable web sites. You can hardly blame the fans for at least paying them some heed. If you saw an article on CNN, you'd pretty much assume it was true. There's no guarantee of that of course, but you certainly wouldn't out and out disregard it just because you didn't witness the event personally.
    Irrespective of whether one considers a site to be "reputable" (debatable) or not, an original report is simply copied, reworded and published by other editorial websites. Quantity doesn't equate to quality. 100 sites might all report the same thing but this isn't a measure of truth. Paying the reports some heed is fine and nobody would disagree with that. But, as you say, its no guarantee that the information is truthful or reliable. Regardless, we've all agreed that there were problems... and D'Astous said as much; so there is definitely truth in there. It is the spins and yarns, the typical media "exaggeration", some choose to disregard.




    Plus, let's be honest, Freyja was in charge of web content, she's likely not going to be a part of all the big confidential meetings involving the dev team and the executive producers and all the other higher ups responsible for designing the game. She would definitely be on the outside looking for any internal office politics.
    Afaik, she was right in the hub of it. Freyja was clued up on everything. She appeared to be 'in the know' just as much as any of the CMs.
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  13. #338
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    Originally Posted by Viktoria
    Afaik, she was right in the hub of it. Freyja was clued up on everything. She appeared to be 'in the know' just as much as any of the CMs.
    It appeared that she was clued up on everything because she happened to be clued up on everything. Funny how that works.
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  14. #339
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    Indeed.
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  15. #340
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    The high senior turnover, in mid-production, is a tad puzzling, but I didn't bother trying to find out where they went, so it's hard to say why they left in the first place, or if the gossip we heard was overblown or not.

    And while this afterword is extremely generic and rather pointless, there's still a lot of truth to the idea that, like many other games, it was nearly impossible for people not to disagree during the first phases of development, especially considering the source material.

    Some of us may be swayed by the thought that a part of the team left because they disagreed on the direction the game took. Whether or not that is the case, it's as futile a thought as the post-mortem we've gotten.

    Any which way you want, I'd be a lot more interested to read a genuine afterword, and hear about compromises, good choices and mistakes, rather than learn whether or not what some have written is true, and rather than reading the happy-go-lucky carebear of a post-mortem we've had so far. But hey, that's just me!
    To lose one parent, Mr Worthing, may be regarded as a misfortune; to lose both looks like carelessness

  16. #341
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    Originally Posted by FrankCSIS
    I'd be a lot more interested to read a genuine afterword, and hear about compromises, good choices and mistakes...
    Seconded.
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  17. #342
    Originally Posted by Master Taffer
    If by "Let's be honest" you mean "let me make conjecture on something I have no idea on about a person who worked directly out of the Eidos Montreal studio and practically knew everyone on a first name basis in a veiled attempt to discredit her..."
    I'm not trying to discredit anyone. What is wrong with you? I was just saying it's LIKELY that a person working in the media division was not intricately involved in the inner workings of video game development. Don't worry, I'm NOT saying she's a lower life form or mentally handicapped or anything like that. Do you think the guys over in I.T. know how the advertising budget is going this year? It's that same kind of thing.

    No, I don't work there, and no, I don't know anything for sure. I'm just guessing. People do that sometimes.

    We've already heard conflicting stories, one side (Freyja) saying there was no "development hell" and another side (D'Astous) hinting that there were issues of some kind. So it seems LIKELY that something was going on. To what degree, we'll probably never know. But it certainly wasn't Nirvana for 5+ years. And the game reflects that.
    "I can see only one good thing coming from a Thief 4. Mark my words on this one. It will make people love Deadly Shadows." -Digital Nightfall (4/4/2008)

  18. #343
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    Originally Posted by brethren
    We've already heard conflicting stories, one side (Freyja) saying there was no "development hell" and another side (D'Astous) hinting that there were issues of some kind..
    You must be confused, there is no conflicting story.
    D'Astous said the reports (of development hell} were blown out of proportion and harsh. Freyja and D'Astous are saying the same thing.


    So it seems LIKELY that something was going on.
    Again, D'Astous confirmed that the studio experienced ups and downs. This has never been denied. Read earlier posts in this thread.
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