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Thread: GHOSTING & Ghost rating requirements - All Discussion Thread

GHOSTING & Ghost rating requirements - All Discussion Thread

  1. #1
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    Nov 2008
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    GHOSTING & Ghost rating requirements - All Discussion Thread

    I'm trying to ghost the game but having some problems with the third mission.
    Even though I remain undetected and refrain from performing any knockouts I still get the 'opportunist' rating for that mission. How is that possible?

    The previous two missions I managed to ghost without any problems even though i turned off some lights here and there and occasionally picked some pockets.


    Can someone please explain on what basis the game calculates the rating for each mission?

  2. #2
    I don't actually KNOW, but I strongly suspect that your use of trick arrows to affect the environment, water arrows on torches in other words, is considered opportunistic rather than ghostly. It fits everything the devs have said in interviews. I don't really like it myself, but I suppose a case can be made that to truly ghost, you can't affect anything other than the loot.
    "The chief problem is that once you take the name of a beloved franchise, you're assuming responsibility for upholding its legacy". -AusGamers Thief review

  3. #3
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    Nice scores. I don't even find 50% of the loot when ghosting.

    I also find it quite insutling to be called a opportunist and not a ghost

  4. #4
    I suspect that not having "remain undetected" in the criteria at the beginning of the quest had something to do with it. Not sure tho.

  5. #5
    Originally Posted by Botlam
    I'm trying to ghost the game but having some problems with the third mission.
    Even though I remain undetected and refrain from performing any knockouts I still get the 'opportunist' rating for that mission. How is that possible?
    Did you use water arrows?

  6. #6
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    Originally Posted by ClashWho
    Did you use water arrows?
    Nope.

  7. #7
    I strongly suspect that the use of anything, may it be a button, arrow anything would make you Opportunist, that's the only thing I get while not knocking anyone. I just use some things in the environment and few water arrows.

    Just don't use any item or don't hide in some closet.

  8. #8
    Before you progress in any mission, at the start of the mission:-
    1.) Open the pause menu
    2.) Go to OBJECTIVES
    3.) Check the individual objectives for the playstyles
    4.) If you attempt to "pick 10 pockets"-Opportunist Objective while "Remaining Undetected"-Ghost objective,you will get a mixed rating. A pure Ghost Rating should mean you complete the ghost objectives and FAIL the opportunist and predator objectives.

  9. #9
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    Originally Posted by THE_STIFFDEATH
    Before you progress in any mission, at the start of the mission:-
    1.) Open the pause menu
    2.) Go to OBJECTIVES
    3.) Check the individual objectives for the playstyles
    4.) If you attempt to "pick 10 pockets"-Opportunist Objective while "Remaining Undetected"-Ghost objective,you will get a mixed rating. A pure Ghost Rating should mean you complete the ghost objectives and FAIL the opportunist and predator objectives.
    But what if there's no objective about picking pockets?
    I only see 'remain undetected', 'collect all loot' and 'perform 10 takedowns from above'.

  10. #10
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    I always felt the opportunist category felt a bit phony. It might have functioned better to just have ghost and predator.

  11. #11
    I found something here that might help:

    http://gaming.stackexchange.com/ques...t-is-playstyle

    Things like extinguishing candles and torches, not leaving doors how you found them and picking pockets all lead to the opportunist playstyle.

    I find the opportunist playstyle annoying. I don't see how picking pockets makes you any less of a ghost. I ended up getting the opportunist ending for mission 4 purely because of picking pockets.

  12. #12
    I think that using grates ala DX:HR stealth where there is a conveniently placed duct to, well, everywhere also constitutes "opportunist" gameplay. I finished dust to dust twice to get ghost and failed twice, once I used grates, no alarms raised, no suspicions raised, no water arrows, no distractions etc.. and got an opportunist rating. Next time I did it without the grates and got stung at the end part
    At that part I thought, bugger it and just kept on with the missions.

  13. #13
    One of the problems with the game is that the mission objectives sre contradictory to playstyle. For example, a mission may state: Remain undetected, lift all loot items, no kiss or knockouts, 6 aerial takedowns. This kind of mix-and-match means that it's impossible to complete all secondary objectives for a given mission. These should have been split up into the same categories as the playstyles. ie: For ghost (objectives), predator (objectives), opportunist (objectives).

    Another issue is that of level design. For example, if the level design forces you to distract a guard in order to pick his pocket or to get at a loot item, then it's self-defeating for the ghost playstyle. What it comes down to is that you're forced to do multiple playthroughs in different styles if you want to complete every objective. For myself, I've decided ignore the end briefing and set my own objectives, which is what we all did when we invented the "ghosting" playstyle after the release of Thief 1 anyway. Unfortunately it's been a long time since then, and the TTLG forums have undergone a bit of a renovation, otherwise I'd suggest going over there and finding the original threads in the T1 forum (which no longer exists).

  14. #14
    Originally Posted by Targa
    One of the problems with the game is that the mission objectives sre contradictory to playstyle. For example, a mission may state: Remain undetected, lift all loot items, no kiss or knockouts, 6 aerial takedowns. This kind of mix-and-match means that it's impossible to complete all secondary objectives for a given mission.
    Are you sure about that? I thought I'd run into that situation in Happy Medium, because one objective was to remain undetected while another objective was to complete two combat takedowns. Turns out you can intiate combat on an unaware opponent (shoot him in the leg with an arrow, say) and then take him down with the blackjack and accomplish both the undetected objective and the combat takedown objective.

  15. #15
    What I meant when I said "This kind of mix-and-match means that it's impossible to complete all secondary objectives for a given mission is that it's not possible to complete all objectives if you're trying for one particular playstyle. ie: A ghost wouldn't perform 6 takedowns, or 3 headshot kills, etc... I suppose I could have worded that statement better.

  16. #16
    Originally Posted by Targa
    What I meant when I said "This kind of mix-and-match means that it's impossible to complete all secondary objectives for a given mission is that it's not possible to complete all objectives if you're trying for one particular playstyle. ie: A ghost wouldn't perform 6 takedowns, or 3 headshot kills, etc... I suppose I could have worded that statement better.
    I think you're right either way, because I'm playing Chapter Three (the brothel) now and the objectives are definitely contradictory. One says no kills or takedowns while another says perform five aerial takedowns. Can't do both.

  17. #17
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    Properly ghosting The City Hub AND getting ALL the loot

    With 0 suspicion raised (and 0 knockouts obviously) WHILE lifting every piece of the 398 loot items that is.

    That's downright impossible, right?

    I just hit South Quarter but already came across at least two instances where NPCs are placed so inconveniently that at least 2 suspicions raised seem to be unavoidable.

    The first example are the two guards in Troy's Apothecary during the Medical Misery side mission, where, no matter which one of the three doors to the room you're trying to open inconspicuously (timing it with the patrolling guard blocking the line of sight of the other one and all that) the sitting guard obviously spots that a door has been opened. -> The first suspicion raised.

    The other example is one particular female NPC in Eel's End/South Quarter standing outside and apparently too close to a room on the first floor of a nearby building which has a cupboard with one piece of loot (a brooch, I believe) in it. To be able to pick up the loot you first have to break the vase holding it which, of course is heard by the female NPC outside down on the street . -> And there's your second unavoidable suspicion raised.

    A goddamn OCD/completionist's nightmare, this is.

  18. #18
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    I don't think raising suspicions counts against a Ghost status, although I can't say for sure. You definitely cannot steal certain items in the game without raising suspicion, however suspicious does not mean alerted to your presence.

    You'll find throughout the experience that the guards are very harsh when it comes to their cone of view. It follows their head, not the way their body is facing, as it should be. So even if you thought you're slithering by a guard, he might turn his head and catch a hooded fellow with a Santa Claus present bag snooping about. This can make ghosting that much harder.

  19. #19
    Same for the second mission you get from Vittori. Says no kills or knockouts, and 1 aerial takedown. Doing the takedown fails the first objective.

  20. #20

    Ghosting the game?

    Anyone else think that there are areas you cannot ghost in the new Thief?

    For example lets look at the house of blossoms. The area where you find the opium tank, thats area has loot but there are two NPC's stood there at all times facing both ways. It would be impossible in my mind to ghost that area without being seen. Has anyone else seen areas in the game that you just cannot ghost without an alert or a knockout?

    Any alerts or knockouts means a ghosting fail, so how would you get that loot on the table? If you distract them by throwing something then it counts as an alert so you cannot even draw them away?

    If anyone has done this without alerting them please do post.

    Link to ghosting rules... Ghost rules

  21. #21
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    Who said you can ghost AND collect every single piece of loot?

  22. #22
    Originally Posted by NIB
    Who said you can ghost AND collect every single piece of loot?
    Well I'm sure the devs said you can. Why would they put in a ghost statistic if you couldn't ghost the game by the old standards from previous games?

  23. #23
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    Originally Posted by d4c1981
    Well I'm sure the devs said you can. Why would they put in a ghost statistic if you couldn't ghost the game by the old standards from previous games?
    They said we can ghost the whole game. I am past Chapter 6 and so far i was able to ghost ( NuThief still prefers calling me an opportunist sometimes).

    Anyway ghosting never included getting 100% loot.

    I don't know if it's possible at all in NuThief to ghost and get all the loot. If it is one shouldn't expect to know the missions well enough to do so 1 week after release.

  24. #24
    Originally Posted by d4c1981
    Anyone else think that there are areas you cannot ghost in the new Thief?

    For example lets look at the house of blossoms. The area where you find the opium tank, thats area has loot but there are two NPC's stood there at all times facing both ways. It would be impossible in my mind to ghost that area without being seen.
    I've ghosted that area. It's not always occupied.

  25. #25
    Originally Posted by d4c1981
    If anyone has done this without alerting them please do post.
    According to the ghosting rules, only SECOND level alerts are not allowed... using a blunt arrow to make the woman looking at the table with the bird on it turn around is only a first level alert, isn't it? Either way, that's what I did. Made her turn around, took all the loot, and when she turned back around I took her earrings. Then I moved in a straight line to the woman facing the furnace so I didn't go into either of their FOVs, and took her earrings as well. Then I moved back into the shadow cast by the staircase, where the other woman couldn't see me.

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