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Thread: Fan/player reviews - reactions (Spoilerific)

Fan/player reviews - reactions (Spoilerific)

  1. #1

    Fan/player reviews - reactions (Spoilerific)

    This thread is for us guys. So what do you think of the game? Do you like it, do you hate it, do you have mixed feelings about it?

    I'll start:

    I'm not one of the Thief purists, or hardcore Thief fans, but I'm one of those who played TDP, TMA (still my favourite) and TDS when they were released. I absolutely fell in love with the games and their mythos and lore. So I had been looking forward to this game very much since the day the project was announced. I did not like the idea of the "reboot", the new voice actor at first and I definitely did not like the idea to make it a console game, but I tried to keep my mind open and these were not a deal-breaker for me. I bought the game and played it (on PC, on Master difficulty level, without focus mode). So, my impressions (I try to keep it simple):

    EDIT: Now that I finished the game for a second time during which I payed a lot more attention to the details, my opinion changed about a few things and I felt the need to add a few more point to my review, so I updated it. This time around I even tried focus.

    The good:

    + Art design and graphics.I find them pretty immersive and good. The "new" City looks great. I like the colour palette, the attention to detail and that each place has its unique character and story to tell. I also like the character designs: clothing, characterization.

    + Atmosphere: it has a very dark and sick atmosphere, not so much medieval steam-punk, but more like victorian noir. I love its gothic and dark ambiance.

    + It's still about stealth and thieving and in that regard it's pretty good and enjoyable. Most of the time it works as a proper Thief game and gave me a great stealth experience.

    + High customisability (big plus!!!). I rarely see such a thing in a game and it works properly. Also it lets you play the game in many various styles.

    + Various thieving activities: disabling traps, finding alternative routes, the new lockpicking mechanics, paintings, hidden doors, secret rooms, unique loot items with lore connected to them, collectibles.

    + The toolset: it's nice to see the old favourites return (except for the moss arrow) and it's also cool to see the new ones which are pretty practical and add new gameplay options.

    + Swoop. I like it a lot,. So much that when I play the old games now I kind of miss this movement option from them. It's a nice addition.

    + The sense of physical presence (hand animations, body weight) and the slow aproach to stealing: opening drawers, stealing from npcs etc.. They can give you a real adrenaline rush at times when guards are around.

    + Side missions. Especially the client jobs which have their own little stories and character. I loved all of them. They are a welcome addition and I'd like to see more of them next time. They give a nice change of pace (humour!) and add a lot to the immersion. I also love the writing in them.

    + Open hub. I always wanted to roam the City's streets freely and now I can do that. It has a very nice ambiance. Also a welcome addition. It would have been nice to see a third district (more like part of it) though with a bit differen wibe (a rich district probably like Dayport-Auldale).

    + Sound design: while it is different and does not live up to the originals all the time, it is still very good. BUT it is glitched to death and the game swarms with various sound issues. (Later about the latter.)

    + The soundtrack/music: While it is obviously not Brosius, it is very good and perfectly fits the mood and the game in general.

    + It's long enough and there's plenty to do. There's no lack of content, that's for sure. The game can take pretty long if you take your time with it and try to accomplish everything.

    + The pre-order dlc mission: Bank Heist. While it was not the greatest mission in the game, I liked the level of freedom and non-linearity it granted.

    + Chapter 5: A certain horror level in an old familiar but changed place (I don't want to spoil it) and its creative and clever use of gameplay mechanics (reverse thieving... don't want to spoil it). That level gave me the hebbie jebbies at times. It was a very well designed and a quite big map with a rich history and lore. Loved it.

    + Chapter 6. This is what I kind of expected from this game. A great and well designed map (except for the points of no return), pretty big too with a lot to explore, lots of thieving, great level desing. And here I enjoyed the "escape/action" sequence too.

    + Replayabilty. The game is quite replayable. There are different playstyles you can try and the costumisation gives you lots of opportunities for new type of experiences with it.

    + Court of Montonessi. I just have to give a shout out to it here. I don't know who came up with this idea, but the guy/gal is definitely crazy and in a good way. That stuff is pure genious! It added a lot to the game's lore and the immersion.

    + The writing and lore outside of the main plot line (the script in the main plot line was a hit and miss): the letters/notes/newspapers you can find and read, the conversations you overhear (when not looping stupidly), the writing for the different items, unique loot you collect, the writing for the side missions and the unique/one time npc conversations are all great! I even loved most of Garrett's wisecracks and comments on things.

    The mixed:

    * Voice acting: it's not bad, but it's not top-notch either and the lip-sync is all over the place at times. The looping dialogues can get irratating.

    * Narrative focus: Thief told its story via its setting, the places you visited, the brief encounters with characters, scriptures and by Garrett's monlogues. It's still present in a way but here it's more like a cinematic adventure. I'm not sure it was a good idea to make it like that (especially for the story not being that good). I don't dislike this approach, but I'm not a "fan" of it either.

    * Cutscenes: While they give a cinematic feel to the game I find them unnecessary and immersion breaking at times. For some reason the fps drops during the cutscenes and the sound can be pretty imbalanced.

    * The lore and references to the old games: it's a strange mixture of the old mythos and some vague, unclear new one. I just can't see where they wanted to take this game or potential series. Sometimes it feels like a complete reboot, other times (most of the times actually) it feels like a sequel set in the same Thief universe but in the distant future with another protagonist who is called Garrett and with all the old factions and religions gone and lost in the mist of time (most obvious examples are the mention of the Trickster, the chappel ruins and the old Keeper library). I kind of like it, but it could have been more elaborated and fleshed out.

    * AI: sometimes it works very well and believable, other times it is all around the place. Thankfully, most of the time I experienced the former. The devs said that they toned down the AI. It would be nice to see a hardcore difficulty level implementing the "original" AI.

    * The UI and maps, documents - they work fine (you have to get used to the map though, it's not the best map I've seen in a game to put it mildly), but their design is what irks me a bit. They could have been made in a more authentic way like in the original games, especially the maps and the documents.

    * Ability upgrade system: While it is a cool idea, I find it pretty unnecessary. The game can be accomplished without one single upgrade on the hardest difficulty level. As for the focus upgrade system. Well it works properly as it should. I gave it a try, but I seldomly used focus.

    * Focus: While it is really not overpowered (as I feared it would be) and can be practical at times, the game can be played without it without a problem (yeah some secrets are a lot harder to find without using it for sure, but otherwise...) and when you use it, it tends to break the immersion. The blue glow on the objects looks very out of place. It would be ok in a sci-fi game, but not here. It's execution is a bit off (style-wise) and way too modern. For the next game there's lots of room to improve on it.


    The bad: this will be a longer read because I wanted to elaborate my points here.

    - Garrett: I do not hate him, nor I like him, which is a problem since he is the main character of this game. At least I should care for him or relate to him in some way, but I can't. He is not a well established character in this game: you don't get to know anything about him: his motivations, his backround or place in the world except for his strange relationship with her brash and violent protege. While every character he meets during the game treats him like a rock star (so to speak): "oh, yeah Garrett, the loner master thief, who does not get involved in anything, keeps to himself and was missing for a year" - a big "WTF?" for the writers and directors. What's this constant vocal reminder of what Garrett's profession and supposed main characteristic is. What makes it even more strange is that despite the constant reminder that Garrett does not care for anyone, he seemingly does care for the people and the City and feels some level of sympathy for Orion's cause (we never find out why though) until a point in the story. It's a funny contradiction. Also I don't get why the writers didn't give him a different name. Garrett was Garrett. This guy is a totally different character in personality and behaviour (has potential, but the script does not let him to shine). At least the choice of name could have been explainid in a way (Why did he get the name Garrett?). Orzari's delivery is not bad, but sometimes he tries too hard to be the Garrett of the original series with his voice acting. The scirpt works very much the same way: it wants to make Garrett look like the old Garrett while in the mean time it desperately makes him into something totally different. It does not work very well. It gives the impression that the writers, devs. did not know what kind of character they wanted him to be. If you make a reboot, dare to make a totally new character. Actually I enjoyed the non-Garrett moments (and occassional non-Garrett like voice acting) of this new character more, because it felt more natural and less contrived, forced. On a positive side note: I want to know more about this character and I want to have reason to like him. He has potential and deserves better.

    - The characters: these guys do have lots of potential, but suffer from the same problem as Garrett: no character establishment, no character development, no real agendas, no real story arc for them. They just randomly go on and off the stage in the story. No real sense of direction again. Too many things happen to them behind the curtains. Again these guys (Erin, Orion, Baron Northcrest, Basso, the general, the beggar's queen, Xiao-Xiao) has great potential to become more likeable, or even great characters.

    - The story: It's cliched (of course it is... most games' stories are like that), but it is lacking in various ways. The handling and direction of the characters seem a bit aimless, as mentioned earlier. The story arc feels very incoherent. You feel like there are missing missions and scenes/cutscenes which were cut from the story for some reason. Too many - important - things happen off screen. Also to many of the questions the plot raises we never get any kind of answer. The direction of the story remains a mistery from the beginning to the very bitter end. You never really find out what moves the characters (from the main character to the nemesis) and the whole plot. With the addition of the Thief telephone application and the comics you learn a lot more about them and it makes the game's story and characters a lot more understandable. BUT I should not need an app. and/or comics for understanding the story which the game aims to and should tell.

    - The ending: There's literally no ending to the story, it just ends with some very brief, anticlimatic, vague and confusing scene. No real climax, no answers, no sense of a journey ending, no closure... just a big silence. It's funny, it was about the only scene where I could relate to Garrett in a funny way: standing up silently and staring at the distance... not understanding a thing and thinking what the hell just happened? During my second playthrough I realised that it's a cliff hanger, but it does not make the ending much better. It should have done with more style. Now I want to see the rest of the story.

    - Map layout and level design: Don't get me wrong I love the atmosphere, the level's character etc, but the maps are pretty small and claustrophobic for my taste, plus the mission progression is very linear at times. You can't roam freely back and forth in most levels. It's a bit like DE:HR's level design with less free exploration and more restricted player freedom. I did not expect the vast and cleverly designed maps of TMA, but I expected the mission maps to be bigger and I definitely expected more player freedom and less or more subtle linearity. And I hate the sudden and many times unexpected points of no return. A huge gripe of mine.

    - The hub world tends to be pretty boring and lifeless at times: empty homes (with no dwellers), repetitive side activities, and too few npcs on the streets (it becomes especially obvious after a certain event in the game).

    - Loading zones: while they don't annoy me to death, I don't see why they couldn't make this game without loading zones. This is the next gen after all.

    - Bugs, glitches: TONS of them. Where were the QA guys during the development? We need patches here guys!

    - SOUND ISSUES. One of the core elements of Thief is sound. Yet the game have tons of minor to big, immersion breaking and very irritating sound issues. There are threads listing them. They should be addressed!!!!! Let this list speak for itself: http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=142344

    - You feel a bit handheld and directed at times... not a good thing in a Thief game.

    - No free jumping, roaming, using your toolset (khmmm... rope arrows!!!!). No moss arrow.

    - "boss-fights" - they are such unnecessary an addition in a stealth game that I can't even comprehend why they came up with the idea of implementing boss fights in Thief in the first place. It's quite immersion breaking, especially that the boss fight in Chapter 7 comes out of the blue (the presence of a certian character is absolutely unexplained and feels stupid and out of place in the given place and situation).

    - Chapter 4: It's bad. It starts as a very promising chapter and it falls so short of what it could have been, that it's almost painful. I mean what happened there? I just can't comprehend how on Earth could that chapter end up being so lame when it had all the ingridents for something very, very great! I elaborate my opinion concerning this Chapter in the OP of another thread: http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=142327


    It's a fun current generation stealth game, but it definitely could not achieve what the original series did, it simply does not live up to it in many key aspects (main character, lore, story, map and mission design, player freedom, SOUND ISSUES). I don't say it is a bad game. It is not, and potentially it could have been so much more. It is very apparent that the game was developed with love and care and lots of enthusiasm, but it feels like the devs wanted to grasp too much and wanted to please too many tastes. Also it feels a bit of a product which was constantly pushed and pulled between different producers with totally different ideas about what it should be (it shows especially in the script-writing department). But again, it is entertaining, fun to play and I hope that they will continue the series after learning from their mistakes and the reactions of critics and the gamer community.

    If I have to give it a score I'd give it a 7/10

  2. #2
    I mostly agree with the above OP but....

    I also feel that if you desire making a WHOLLY stealth game then please do not give the option to fight at all (like in outlast which I played and enjoyed muchly)

    Because if you DO give me the option to fight then I expect it to receive as much attention as stealth, be as viable and rewarding as stealth and especially not be looked down upon by the community and the main character himself.

  3. #3
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    This review focuses on a lot of the things I noticed in the footage I've seen, and feels like the review I would end up giving it (I can't imagine giving it more than a 7). I know what you mean about Garrett being someone you feel a bit neutral toward.

    One thing that strikes me is just how hobbled the game is by the engine. It's like a really bad PC port (think GTA 4) except the consoles got it as well. I don't think, when they were sat around a table coming up with ideas, that they imagined all these load points, nor a jeering crowd of 2 people. nor having conversations that play without an actual source.

  4. #4
    I am one of those purists and I'll let this image speak for itself: http://i.imgur.com/SkS8uke.jpg

  5. #5
    Originally Posted by arkhanari
    I am one of those purists and I'll let this image speak for itself: http://i.imgur.com/SkS8uke.jpg
    You don't have to. As I said, one of my greatest gripes with the game is the small, minimalistic level design and linearity.

    Actually to me the two greatest cons were the writing quality and the levels/linearity.

    So I concur, despite I'm not a purist.

  6. #6
    A very good review op. Thank you much.

  7. #7
    Originally Posted by arkhanari
    I am one of those purists and I'll let this image speak for itself: http://i.imgur.com/SkS8uke.jpg
    New Thief does have small levels, and some linearity, but that image is inaccurate. There are at least 3 ways to approach the Jewelers building, and 3 or 4 ways into the building. I know; I've played it.

    The game is flawed, perhaps fatally so. But one shouldn't exaggerate ts flaws, and that picture does.

  8. #8
    Originally Posted by joebarnin
    New Thief does have small levels, and some linearity, but that image is inaccurate. There are at least 3 ways to approach the Jewelers building, and 3 or 4 ways into the building. I know; I've played it.

    The game is flawed, perhaps fatally so. But one shouldn't exaggerate ts flaws, and that picture does.
    Yeah, that's fair. The level design is a bit like DE:HR's. Only difference is that you can't roam freely back and forth in most of the maps. I would be happy with a DE:HR kind of approach if they wrote a solid and interesting plot with well written charcters and lore.

  9. #9
    The image is unfair, but the message is still sound. It's comparing maybe the smallest Thief 4 level to one of the bigger Thief 2 levels. Lockdown took me ~20 mins to complete, Shipping and Receiving took ~2 hours. The average mission time I'm seeing in Thief 4 is ~1:15. So yes, to compare these 2 levels is unfair.

    That said, Thief 4 is clearly very linear. There are sometimes 3 paths to an objective or to circumvent a hazard, but that's much different than the sandbox levels of Thief 2. The 3 paths you're describing are more like "Using the front door, using the back door, and using the basement door". The point is, all 3 of them funnel you through the jewelers and eventually you MUST exit through the 2nd floor window. It's not one literal hallway, but it's still linear.

    And for those who use it, the objective marker does not help this feeling. If that Thief 2 level had one, people would b-line straight for the mission objective and be done much faster. The hand drawn, ambiguous maps were half the fun.

  10. #10

    Thief: some good, some bad

    I've been playing Thief on my pc since yesterday and mostly my experience has been positive. The game looks great, but it puts my computer in a serious test. I have overclocked radeon 7950 and 3570k @4Ghz. With normal settings I get 49.6fps at average in Thief benchmark and on very high settings 40.6fps average. I just play on very high settings and it doesn't bother me. Maybe some golden eye might disagree.
    Guards are vigilant, at least on master level, movement is smooth and I really do feel like I am a master thief moving through the world unseen. There's plenty of paths to choose from and that almost makes up for the fact that there's only contextual 'jumping'.
    There's some bugs, but nothing game breaking. Guards may stop their patrolling sometimes and stay in one place and once a guard got stuck on something on the road and started to spin around. It was amusing. I also saw a crossbow, dropped from the guard, ignoring physical laws and lying on the wall. Npcs also also repeat same stories over and over, even though I get the feeling that those were supposed to be heard only once. Oh, and don't look at their lips when they talk if you want to keep the immersion up.
    Fights with multiple guards are deadly, as they should be. Though, it feels a bit too easy to stunlock one guard with repeated blackjack hits. They block maybe every 4th or 5th attack and then counter-attack so it's not hard to predict and dodge.
    Guards have also keen senses and there's no tunnel vision phenomenon in Thief. Their field of view is about the same as what real people would have. They can also see you from 1-2 meters away even if you are in complete darkness, which is good. They also react on open doors or chests and start their hunt.
    I customised the difficulty level even further with additional handicaps. Among those choses were no aiming dot when using a bow and extra costly items/upgrades. Decisions that I regret now... I thought that the bow would have some kind of aiming hole in itself, like in original thiefs and far cry 3, but no, there is not! Now I have to guesswork where the middle of my screen is, quicksave, try to shoot whatever I'm trying to shoot and quickload 10 times when I keep missing. The difficulty rises exponentially when the distance grows.
    And then there's the prices of those items. I think the prices are highest I have seen in any game ever during my 20+ years of gaming. For example, one normal arrow costs 600 gold. From a single mission that I complete I get approximately 900-1000 gold, if I steal 70-80% of the items. That takes about 1 hour. So I have to work 1 hour to be able to buy 1 arrow that isn't enough to kill a single guard unless I make a headshot. Well, the damage is ok, since I haven't upgraded my bow yet (costs 1300g to make it do slightly more damage) but the buying price is preposterous.
    There's rope arrows, too, which you can shoot only on some special beams (ugh), but those arrows costs 900 gold a piece. There's lots of places where I could climb using those arrows, a bit like puzzle solving scattered everywhere in the town, but so far I have found only 2 arrows and I'm sure as hell not going to use it on beam that gives me access to a common house where I can get maybe 12 gold worth of loot. What the hell. Maybe I can check possibly 10% of those places out when I'm nearly finished my game. Rope-climbing is a bit of an endgame in itself, huh?
    Same goes for water arrows, choking arrows and fire arrows, too. They are so very expensive that I cannot afford to use them almost ever and so that "high priced items" -option essentially denies me of using other tactical options than sneaking and climbing around. I just admire them in my inventory screen.
    Only exeption from the rule are blunt arrows costing 40g that are used for pushing buttons or making noise. At least, I can use my bow for something...
    I can also confirm that the developers have a wicked sense of humor since you can also sell your arrows that you have bought (or more probably found) and get maybe 8 gold per arrow.
    Then there's the option to highlight the objects that you can interact with. It's ok, when you are targeting boxes, cupboards and other house furniture since it just makes them a bit shinier when you look at them directly. When you are outside, it looks ugly, when climbable ropes and other objects are shown blue as in focus mode (that I deactivated immediately). And those objects stay blue all the time whether you look at them or not. Would it have been so hard to make them a bit shinier like house objects and maybe even start to shine only when you are relatively close to them and looking at them or at their direction? It reduces immersion. I turned that option off even though it makes targeting a specific item a bit difficult sometimes.
    Ok, that was a lot of snark up there, but still, despite all of it's flaws, I have enjoyed playing Thief alot so far and I'm interested to see what's waiting for me in a next mission. I can call this a proper Thief -game, but with more problems and annoying features than any previous Thief -game.

    Edit: There was a small 40MB patch and now it seems that the benchmark gives me 47fps average. I like it. Also, I decided to start a new game and now those arrows I *ed about costs 75g which is reasonable. Who was that genius who thought that 600g arrows are the way to go, when using expensive items -option?

  11. #11
    Please! Show mercy!
    "The chief problem is that once you take the name of a beloved franchise, you're assuming responsibility for upholding its legacy". -AusGamers Thief review

  12. #12
    Originally Posted by joebarnin
    New Thief does have small levels, and some linearity, but that image is inaccurate. There are at least 3 ways to approach the Jewelers building, and 3 or 4 ways into the building. I know; I've played it.

    The game is flawed, perhaps fatally so. But one shouldn't exaggerate ts flaws, and that picture does.
    The biggest difference is the linearity. Sure there may be multiple entrances into the same building, the overall level design does not allow for backtracking or "sandbox" feel like many of the original Thief level designs. This makes the stealth aspect a heck of a lot easier. If you did not knockout a guard and decided to let him go free, or if you are attempting a Ghost, the chances of you running into him again is great. This made for quite a tense level traversal as you never know where you will find your opponent during the entire time there (to a certain degree based on patrol paths). In the Linearity of the Reboot. I can simply take 2 seconds, sneak by a guard and never see that guy again. The predictability of my mission was seriously elevated.
    - Semper Fidelis -

    Fire Arrow enima's were once a very popular thing.

  13. #13
    Originally Posted by joebarnin
    The game is flawed, perhaps fatally so. But one shouldn't exaggerate ts flaws, and that picture does.
    The map of Lockdown level was created by me BEFORE Thief release. I did it while watching YouTube video of Eidos demonstration. I tried to warn you that the levels in Thief will be small, linear nad divided into loading zones. Some of you bashed me for this and were still in denial. It seems I was right.

    I have no idea who set it together with Thief 2 map.

    But...

    It seems Lockdown level in the game hasn't "improved" much (in terms of level design and nonlinearity)...
    Try my Thief 2 fan mission Old Comrades, Old Debts.
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  14. #14
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    Focusing specifically on the between-mission hub and the side-content, how do people find it? Is it more liberating than the main campaign missions as people have said? Is it hard to navigate due to everywhere looking the same? Is it repetitive in that many houses are painting/safe, endless drawers full of trinkets and traps disabled with wire cutters, or is there some variety? Are some of the houses occupied and how often? Does it get old fast to loot these places or is it addictive? Can you stumble upon missions in the city hub, or do you have to go through Basso to get any of them?

  15. #15
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    Not much longer to wait now for us Europeans. Dammit, the wait is hard.

    I am curious to see what the game is really like - how it plays... how it feels.
    The reviews and scores have me totally confused as they are so mixed with plenty in the good camp, the bad camp and the in-between camp. There seems to be no decisive lean one way or the other. Crazy.
    In all honesty.... after so many years of waiting, its going to be a relief to finally play it and 'know' it. Good or bad... I'll let you know.
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  16. #16
    Originally Posted by Viktoria
    Not much longer to wait now for us Europeans. Dammit, the wait is hard.

    I am curious to see what the game is really like - how it plays... how it feels.
    The reviews and scores have me totally confused as they are so mixed with plenty in the good camp, the bad camp and the in-between camp. There seems to be no decisive lean one way or the other. Crazy.
    In all honesty.... after so many years of waiting, its going to be a relief to finally play it and 'know' it. Good or bad... I'll let you know.

    I don´t wanna upset you but I got mine just a few hours ago

    As soon as I finish I'll give my opinion.

  17. #17
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    Haha. Rub salt into this Brit's wounds, why don't you.
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  18. #18
    I just finished the prologue last night and I think that Eidos nailed atmosphere, graphically quality, and (from what I've seen, btw I played on master) the A.I. My biggest gripes with the game are Erin, Garret, and the GOD awful lazy cut scene. I've had better chemistry with my dog than Erin and Garret have with each other, and it's really a pain seeing what Eidos can do, and getting lazy at parts. I know it's mean, but I'm honestly glad that
    Overall I feel like I'm really going to enjoy this game, but I'm well aware that it will get pretty disappointing at some parts.

  19. #19
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    Hey everyone, I've been reading a lot of the forums here in anticipation of Thief's release and decided to join up in order to share my experiences with the game so far.

    I've played every Thief game, and I am currently in between missions 3 and 4 of the new one. So far, I am pleasantly surprised with the game. I'm playing the PC version. (No spoilers here btw)

    The Good:
    - I'm loving the atmosphere. I think the environment looks great and seeps atmosphere. It's a little colorless, but grimy victorian era cities usually are.
    - The thievery aspect of the game is an absolute rush. Swoop is a big part of this aspect. creeping behind a guard and pickpocketing him to then swoop off to the side and hide in a darkened doorway as he turns the corner really makes you feel like a master thief.
    - Movement in the game is surprisingly fluid. I know there is no dedicated jump, and people have been complaining about weird contextual things, but I haven't run into any of that. Jumping from beam to beam, climbing up crates and leaping from rooftop to rooftop all felt rather smooth. A lot smoother than I had thought from all the videos and previews I had seen.
    - The tactile aspect of the hands is really nice for immersion. Physically grabbing loot, examining paintings, all add to the master thief aspect.
    - Ambient sound so far is really well done too, and does a good job drawing you in
    - Combat is clunky and super wonky. I like this, since it is something that is "do-able" but definitely better to avoid.
    - Large amounts of verticality. It really helps make the game seem a lot more open than it is, and gives a lot of cool master thief moments a time to shine.

    The Bad:
    - While breaking into peoples apartments and stealing their things SOUNDS appealing, in reality, you're breaking into what amount to closets, and stealing things with literally no repercussions from NPCs. There are multiple times where you will jimmy a window, slink into a persons bedroom, and be able to hear them talking in the other room, but the door to that room will be non interactive. This takes away from the immersion, since you are never in fear of that npc walking around their apartment and discovering you. Still fun, but could have been way better. One of my biggest disappointments.
    - Story. But it's not a deal breaker for me, since I didn't like the stories for TMA or TDS either.
    - Voice acting. Ugh. Not atrocious, but not good by any means.
    - Traversing the city is definitely fun (jumping from rooftop to rooftop in stonemarket especially), but hot dog is it a windy, corridor-esque city. A little more breathing room would have been better.
    - So far, I've noticed that there are certain points in main missions that are "points of no return." I REALLY do not like these. I would have preferred loading zones like in TDS. You had better hope you explored everything you want to explore before hitting these points (which sometimes aren't recognizable as being a "no return" point.)
    - No parchment maps. I mean come on. Hands down the best thing about the Thief games.
    - No moss arrows. Second best thing about the Thief games.

    The Ehh:
    - Load times. I've never minded load times as much as other people, and on my pc they are always under 10 seconds, but you will hit them frequently.
    - Master difficulty having a built in "No civi knockouts / kills" stipulation. I play on master for the increased AI difficulty, health damage, etc, but that extra stipulation means there are certain routes that I can't take through levels which kind of stinks.
    - Master difficulty increases the cost of resources to fairly crazy prices. Not as bad as the custom option, but still pretty steep. Basso's bond will become a must.
    - Level design is definitely more "linear" in that it's not nearly as open/sandbox. There are definitely alternate paths, secret rooms, and skippable segments, but nothing you would find in a LGS game. It's open and alternating enough to be enjoyable, but at the same time leaves you wanting a little more.
    - Rope arrows aren't as bad as everyone makes them out to be. No you can't shoot them willy nilly, but there are plenty of places they can be shot, and since the game has a large amount of verticality to it, they do a great job of opening up the game.

    Is it the next best thing since Thief 1/2? No. But I like it a hell of a lot better than TDS, and I'm having a lot of fun playing it. It definitely feels like a thief game though, and after 10 years I am more than happy to have it on my hard drive.

  20. #20
    Originally Posted by Viktoria
    Not much longer to wait now for us Europeans. Dammit, the wait is hard.

    I am curious to see what the game is really like - how it plays... how it feels.
    The reviews and scores have me totally confused as they are so mixed with plenty in the good camp, the bad camp and the in-between camp. There seems to be no decisive lean one way or the other. Crazy.
    In all honesty.... after so many years of waiting, its going to be a relief to finally play it and 'know' it. Good or bad... I'll let you know.

    I'm Hungarian, and I got mine... just to push that dagger deeper... grrrr... The wait is almost over for all Europeans though. I'm looking forward to your opinion and review. I hope you will enjoy it at least just as much as I did, even if you might have issues with it.

  21. #21
    Originally Posted by marshb63
    A very good review op. Thank you much.
    Ah, thanks. I hope it helps.

  22. #22
    Originally Posted by crimzontearz
    I mostly agree with the above OP but....

    I also feel that if you desire making a WHOLLY stealth game then please do not give the option to fight at all (like in outlast which I played and enjoyed muchly)

    Because if you DO give me the option to fight then I expect it to receive as much attention as stealth, be as viable and rewarding as stealth and especially not be looked down upon by the community and the main character himself.

    Yeah, a valid point, but since in this regard it is very similar to the original series which we all know is a hardcore stealth game, I have no problem with it: it gives you the option to evade attacks and run, but does not allow you to act as fighter... though I miss the dagger (since it gives you the opportunity to become a true silent predator).

  23. #23
    Originally Posted by GimmeDaGun
    I'm Hungarian, and I got mine... just to push that dagger deeper... grrrr...
    Give it a twist, why don't ya?

  24. #24
    Played it for about 20 minutes and turned it off. Trying to shoot the bow and he just keeps putting it away instead of firing the shot, Very annoying. His hand is in the drawer or whatever before it's even open if something is in it. I could keep going but I would be sitting here for an hour or so.

  25. #25
    Hilariously inept, inelegant design even in the very first two minutes of the game. You're running around a small room looting 7-10 items like you're playing Borderlands or something. So now I'm already sick of stealing things and I've been taught a mechanic that's very easy to understand without an explanation because there's prompts everywhere 7-10 times instead of just once.

    Really, the inept, inelegant design begins in the menu customization because it asks you to irreversibly min/max your preferences in a game you haven't ever played before.

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