Thread: REVIEWS & SCORES - Critical Reception for Thief

REVIEWS & SCORES - Critical Reception for Thief

  1. #51
    Originally Posted by ⓣⓐⓕⓕⓔⓡ
    Lots of "oldies" on this board have already made up their minds that Thief is going to suck anyway.

    I'd consider 90/100 a pretty good score?
    I'm really looking forward to the game and I have played all the thief, deus ex, splinter cell and dishonoured games. I am 32... not that old?!?

  2. #52
    Originally Posted by Irina
    I think Thief will average 80-85 on Metacritic. I'm expecting a very good game, but not exactly a "classic".
    I hope it does well so we can have a next-gen only Thief.
    The IP has so much potential, I'd hate to see it dead and buried for good.
    IMHO the first truly "bad" thief game will be the last ever.

    The problem with the legacy of thief games has not necessarily been the game itself, but the companies that make them. Thief is a widow maker
    Thief 5 creation instructions: Play thief 2, play again, pay UDK4 or idTech 6 licence, employ engine programmers who are able to code jumping physics, listen to fans not ubisoft

  3. #53
    Originally Posted by Solid Jensen
    Any proof that his comment is in any way related to Thief?
    Also, VanOrd isn't most reliable of reviewers, his texts are often HIGHLY opinionated.
    Aren't all reviews opinionated? Or should be anyway?

  4. #54
    Originally Posted by InDIGnation
    Aren't all reviews opinionated? Or should be anyway?
    The opinions of certain sites or people can influence many to buy a game or not and can even make or break a games success. I personally never listen to reviews unless its a genre I have never played or a game series I have never played. I did this for KZSF, I had not played any prior KZ games and did some research before purchase. I do not need any one to tell me what Thief is going to be like as I am a fan of the series and will purchase regardless.

  5. #55
    Originally Posted by taff
    The problem with the legacy of thief games has not necessarily been the game itself, but the companies that make them. Thief is a widow maker
    True dat. It will be interesting to see if EM goes the way of LGS and ISA after this. From what we have heard from behind the scenes, doesn't sound impossible. The Thief curse. If it does happen, I might have to get a little superstitious.

    Originally Posted by d4c1981
    I personally never listen to reviews unless its a genre I have never played or a game series I have never played. I did this for KZSF, I had not played any prior KZ games and did some research before purchase. I do not need any one to tell me what Thief is going to be like as I am a fan of the series and will purchase regardless.
    So you are like everyone else who listens to reviews, except you blindly support brands you like? You made it sound like you were more discerning and critical than most, is all.

  6. #56
    Originally Posted by IHaveReturned
    True dat. It will be interesting to see if EM goes the way of LGS and ISA after this. From what we have heard from behind the scenes, doesn't sound impossible. The Thief curse. If it does happen, I might have to get a little superstitious.


    So you are like everyone else who listens to reviews, except you blindly support brands you like? You made it sound like you were more discerning and critical than most, is all.
    Discerning? Never been called that before... YAY my lifes dream complete!

  7. #57
    Hm. Well, I was actually implying that you sounded discerning, while the content of what you said suggested you weren't. Just sounded odd, and I'm still not clear on what you really meant.

    To take it from the top, in the context of review scores being unreliable and laden with opinion, you said you never trusted reviews unless regarding new genres or franchises. All that means is that you trust and buy from franchises known to you, and watch reviews for everything else. Which to me sounds just like trusting reviews in general, except you don't bother when you trust a franchise. A regular review user would do the exact same thing, but also check reviews for franchise games.

    So in light of this, you don't seem to be particularly discerning after all. See my confusion?

  8. #58
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  9. #59
    Originally Posted by IHaveReturned
    Hm. Well, I was actually implying that you sounded discerning, while the content of what you said suggested you weren't. Just sounded odd, and I'm still not clear on what you really meant.

    To take it from the top, in the context of review scores being unreliable and laden with opinion, you said you never trusted reviews unless regarding new genres or franchises. All that means is that you trust and buy from franchises known to you, and watch reviews for everything else. Which to me sounds just like trusting reviews in general, except you don't bother when you trust a franchise. A regular review user would do the exact same thing, but also check reviews for franchise games.

    So in light of this, you don't seem to be particularly discerning after all. See my confusion?
    When your a fan of a series and the next game in that series comes out your like a little school boy who just wants it now, you cannot stop thinking about it because you loved previous iterations of that series.

    Take Splinter Cell Double Agent, I had played all the previous games to SCDA and was totally psyched to be getting SCDA. SCDA did not turn out to be the Sam Fisher I loved from previous games but it was more of Sam Fisher and that's what I wanted, which helped me to see past some of the differences in gameplay and also any bugs.

    So when I say I am a fan of Thief/Garrett and I do not need any reviews to help me decide to buy the game because I am going to buy it regardless, it is because I am a fan of the series and if there are any issues in gameplay this or that, I will see past them because it is more of what I love.

    Hope this helps you to understand my answer and reasoning. Although I am a bit bonkers so not so sure if that is possible...

  10. #60
    Yeah, that makes sense to me. I'm that way with regards to Assassin's Creed. And I know I will get NuThief as well. I just won't buy either until they are cheap. Well, I'll watch reviews, but they would have to be horrible for me to pass up.

    I just don't see that as having any relevance towards the credibility of reviews, nor would I bring it up as an example of how I'm not fooled by the likes of IGN. Which is what it seemed you were doing.

  11. #61
    Originally Posted by IHaveReturned
    Yeah, that makes sense to me. I'm that way with regards to Assassin's Creed. And I know I will get NuThief as well. I just won't buy either until they are cheap. Well, I'll watch reviews, but they would have to be horrible for me to pass up.

    I just don't see that as having any relevance towards the credibility of reviews, nor would I bring it up as an example of how I'm not fooled by the likes of IGN. Which is what it seemed you were doing.
    We all have favourite sites we frequent, I go to IGN, Gamespot and CVG for my daily dose of gaming news. I rarely venture outside of those sites when looking at written reviews because they are sites I go to not specifically for their talented writing or because I trust their judgement, but purely because I have gone to them for so long that I do not want to go anywhere else.

    I have slated IGN and Gamespot in the past for giving technically brilliant games 8 or 9/10's when they should be 10/10's. So I am in no way biased towards these sites, I have just gone to them for so long I keep going back.

    If you have any sites you think could expand my gaming dosage, then feel free to post them for me.

  12. #62
    Well, I'm kinda addicted to the Escapist.

    But for reviews I can only recommend amateur YouTube reviewers, possibly Classic Game Room, Elder-Geek or TotalBiscuit.

    The way I discover whether a game is for me is to look only at the negative Metacritic user reviews, and see if their criticisms are things that would bother me. If not, and the YouTube vids look promising, and the price is right, I buy. Hasn't steered me wrong so far.

  13. #63
    Originally Posted by IHaveReturned
    Well, I'm kinda addicted to the Escapist.

    But for reviews I can only recommend amateur YouTube reviewers, possibly Classic Game Room, Elder-Geek or TotalBiscuit.

    The way I discover whether a game is for me is to look only at the negative Metacritic user reviews, and see if their criticisms are things that would bother me. If not, and the YouTube vids look promising, and the price is right, I buy. Hasn't steered me wrong so far.
    Great points and sites/youtubers. I will defo bare them in mind.

  14. #64
    Thief’s A.I. Was “Dumbed Down” to Make Game More Fun

    A.I. is a critically important part of any stealth game. After all, the entire motivation of games in the genre is to find ways to outsmart the A.I. If it's dumb, the strategy element that gives stealth fans a rush is tossed in the wind.

    In the case of Thief, Eidos Montreal's design may have made the A.I. a little too strong. So, they've decided to dumb it down a bit to make the game's levels more of a playground than a grind.

    On the topic of A.I., Thief Game Director Nic Cantin told ArabicGamers:

    ​With the AI they did something that was really good, but when you were trying to distract a guard in that direction for example, they were so intelligent he'd anticipate you and find you and there'd be a big fight.

    He continued:

    It was too realistic at some points and we had to balance those elements and spend a lot of time with AI to make sure there is no anticipation.

    In the event that the A.I. has been dumbed down a little too much, the game not only has several difficulty settings but even a custom difficulty setting option where you can force no visible UI, no alerts, no knockouts, and more. Those looking for a challenge will find it one way or another.

    Thief will release on Xbox One, PS4, Xbox 360, PS3, and PC on February 25th.

  15. #65
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    A dutch magazin called 'Power Unlimited' gave it a score of 90/100. If you guys want a quick summary of the review let me know. The guy who did the review is an long time fan of the Thief series btw.


    Here comes the summary:
    blabla maybe spoilers and stuff. I will just write stuff down that hasnt been mentioned yet in previews. If i mention things you guys allready know, dont go bashing cause i dont have the time to follow everything about this game.



    1: He says the game is a real reboot, but has lots of references to the old games. Like symbols, conversations and books. Real oldschool Thief fans are in for some real nice subtile surprises.
    2: If you dont hit a guard on the right spot he doesnt die and all hell breaks lose.
    3: (big spoiler for some) In the brothel mission, there is a way to fill the whole brothel with gas, so everyone falls asleep or is dead or something. Meaning that you can freely loot everything there is.
    4: The further you get, the more arrows unlock.
    5: Everybody knows about the wirecutter. Dont know if you guys allready know there is also a screwdriver. Which can open things like sewer entrances.
    6: (maybe a big spoiler) There is a big safe, big as a living room. With six numbers to crack. The content isnt what Garrett hopes for though. Its an important story thingy.
    7: The reviewer likes the city hub. There are different districts. The further you get in the game, the more unlocks. There is a real difference between the rich and poor districts.
    8: Sidequests: Basso gives you about 15 sidequests. But there are a lot of other people that give sidequests.
    8: (sidequest spoiler) In one of the sidequests you are asked to return a talking skull to the boss off a circus. But a drunken guy named Lenny ran away with it. Your mission is to get Lenny safe to his home without Lenny getting in trouble. Lenny also shouldnt spot you.
    9: He says that people that complain about the games difficulty probably havent touched the custom made difficulty.
    10: Loading times are a bit lengthy.
    11: Saving takes about 1.5 seconds.
    12: About story movies he says it doesnt look as good as the ingame graphics.
    13: There are also sometimes moments that there is a long silence before people start talking again in the middle of a conversation.
    14: When you walk from one place to another there is sometimes a sort of jittering (is this how its named?). Like the game is loading or something. I dont know how to explain it better in english than this :P. This just happens a couple of times in the game.
    15: There are a lot of routes to go. But sometimes when you think you can go somewhere, and you are halfway through the route you inmagined, you have to go back bacause you cant go further. Doesnt happen much though.
    16: Gamelength: 10-25 hours.

  16. #66
    Originally Posted by WiCkEd_GaMeS
    Thief’s A.I. Was “Dumbed Down” to Make Game More Fun
    People are throwing this around like it's some kind of awful thing to do. It isn't. AI that is TOO smart can make a stealth game unplayable. Imagine if the AI was actually realistic. The game would be almost impossible to play stealthily, if you get glimpsed, even in the peripheral vision, guards will know you're there. Shadows won't do anything to hide you, the tiniest noise will cause a guard to turn around and see you, and then they will immediately call out for backup from the other guards in a building. When you knock someone out, they will scream, alerting everyone else, guards wouldn't follow set patrol routes, making them unpredictable, and generally, the game would be a mess. If the AI is too stupid, it is a bad thing, yes, but if it's too smart it is potentially even worse. At least we can increase the challenge through the optional difficulty settings- AI that's too smart can literally make the game too difficult to play.

    Originally Posted by Oever1
    A dutch magazin called 'Power Unlimited' gave it a score of 90/100. If you guys want a quick summary of the review let me know. The guy who did the review is an long time fan of the Thief series btw.
    Yes please, a summary would be great.

  17. #67
    Originally Posted by knox140
    AI that is TOO smart can make a stealth game unplayable. Imagine if the AI was actually realistic. The game would be almost impossible to play stealthily.
    This.
    Stealth games NEED limited and predictable AI. Nice example of realistic behaviour vs. how players expect AI to behave in a stealth game:
    If it's a life simulation, we discovered that it's not fun because you feel the game is not fair." He describes tests in which they would throw objects to get a guard's attention. The AI programmers would celebrate when the guard cared more about where the bottle was thrown from than where it landed, correctly interpreting the location of the player. Getting worked up again, Roy throws a water bottle across the room and pretends he is the guard, describing the AI's potential thought process in this scenario. "OK, this is the room, and there's the bottle. And it's f***ing stupid because the room is empty, and probably the bottle is coming from this direction!" Still pretending to be the guard, Roy moves to where he would know the player was and makes a stabbing motion. "Boom, you're dead!"
    But that's not the behavior the player expects, and it destroys the purpose of why the bottle is initially thrown--to distract the guard and avoid detection. Roy tells me, "And this is where I think there's no black or white answer. Because on your side maybe you're going to be really demanding and you're going to tell me 'I don't believe in this behavior.' But the other person will say, 'hey man, I really want to have fun with the game. It's a video game, not like a simulation, give me a break, make sure that I can read the pattern.

  18. #68
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    I have a suspicion the alert music might give Garrett 'eyes in the back of his head'

  19. #69
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    I updated my post above with a summary off the review.

  20. #70
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    Originally Posted by Oever1
    2: If you dont hit a guard on the right spot he doesnt die and all hell breaks lose.
    Would be great if that's true, but i find it hard to believe.

    Thanks a lot for the summary!

  21. #71
    Originally Posted by Oever1
    I updated my post above with a summary off the review.
    Thank you!

  22. #72
    Game length 10-25 hours. That's a wide range, but if it's actually close to the high side, I'll be happy.

    Well, with that part anyway.
    "I can see only one good thing coming from a Thief 4. Mark my words on this one. It will make people love Deadly Shadows." -Digital Nightfall (4/4/2008)

  23. #73
    I imagine that my playtime will be at the higher end, I like to take a lot of time to explore and try and find everything. Upset to hear about loading times, that's something the other review mentioned as well. No doubt it will frustrate me as much as it did in DX:HR...

    Thanks for the summary, though.

  24. #74
    Originally Posted by Solid Jensen
    This.
    Stealth games NEED limited and predictable AI. Nice example of realistic behaviour vs. how players expect AI to behave in a stealth game:
    Agreed. However, they also need to couch the poor A.I. into the narrative so it doesn't seem ridiculous. Thief did this the best way ever: "I'm goin' to the bear pits tomorra? Ya wanna come with?"

    Clearly these guards are drunk idiots.

    There are a lot of other subtle things you can do to make the A.I. seem slightly less stupid, like have them gravitate in the players direction when searching and giving them very good "barks" to indicate which state of alertness they are in. If you screw up any of these things, suddenly your A.I. looks just as stupid as it was designed to be, and not in a good way. That might be what we're seeing here, or maybe modern reviews just don't really *get* good stealth A.I.

  25. #75
    That's two positive reviews already, and one of them from a Thief fan. Seems promising

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