Thread: Grand Theft Auto V is at times a Kane & Lynch reboot ...

Grand Theft Auto V is at times a Kane & Lynch reboot ...

  1. #1

    Thumbs Up Grand Theft Auto V is at times a Kane & Lynch reboot ...

    I'll try my best not to point out too much details or spoilers, as I believe it to be best to savor and discover it by oneself.
    But then again, the topic title already gave away too much.

    I know fellow member XZX has made the topic "Alternatives" in the off topic section, and that this topic ought to perhaps go there as well, but this ... Grand Theft Auto V is just too much, the resemblance at times with Kane & Lynch is ... ... ...

    Remember the second trailer for Dead Men ? the one focused on Lynch criticizing Kane ? ...
    Remember the line "I might have my issues, but I Know what you did. I've seen the pain you've caused, You F-ing Traitor." ? ...

    Lynch never really says this in the game itself, nor is this particular plot point ever properly raised, feeling like a missed opportunity at times ...
    But then in Grand Theft Auto V, the relationship between two characters is basically based off that trailer sequence.



    To top it all, you could make that character Dress up like Lynch too as he delivers his speech, giving even more gravitas to the already dramatic situation.

    Buy the navy blue suit at Ponsonby, black sunglasses at Ammu-Nation, and blue jeans at Suburban, then go to the standard and most common barber shop and have the longest available hair cut and get the huge lumberjack beard, and voila ... you will have a splitting image of Lynch, in appearance, voice, and manners.
    Although note that this is Dog Days' version of Lynch. There's also his white wife-beater top available at the Discount store I believe, but there's no Dead Men Lynch with his black suit and black tie.

    Kane's expy in Grand Theft Auto V is an alternate version of Kane where

    Part of his default outfit is a tie-less grey suit with white shirt, if you're still doubting.

    You basically have a Dead Men Kane and Dog Days Lynch, but then again, IO Interactive done the same thing in Hitman Absolution.

    And these are just small teaser of sorts if you will to the amount of resemblance one can notice in-game, through dialogues, circumstances, animation, Atmosphere ... Especially atmosphere.

    Oh heck.
    Grand Theft Auto V takes place in L.A. with a patch of desert.
    A third of Dead Men took place in LA. with a patch of desert.

    This is different, Very different to any other previous circumstances where we may have noted resemblances or references to Kane & Lynch in other games. This is different than just merely able to customize your character's appearance into the likes of Lynch and Kane.
    For example in Saints Row The Third, which is also a car-jacking sandbox game, you could also customize your protagonist into looking like Lynch, but he sure won't 'act' like Lynch, it lacks the attitude, the behavior, the voice that goes with it. The story situations and missions doesn't match it either.

    This is not the case here with Grand Theft Auto V, no matter how deliberate or un-deliberate this was, they sure done pulled off a stunning homage to Kane & Lynch.

    It's not even like you had to squint your eyes to see the resemblance. And after the numerous references Dog Days had for a couple of Rockstar titles, notably the look and feel of Manhunt, I say it's only fair that the ball gets kicked back.

    I've seen Grand Theft Auto fans commenting on the resemblance with Kane & Lynch, most of them pre-date the game's actual release, a supposition is made that the resemblance is there because both games are basing off their characters from pre-existing gangster character archetype. Not to mention the whole Robert DeNiro and Kevin Gage in Heat inspiration thing.

    But i'm having a great time with Grand Theft Auto V regardless. The Kane & Lynch resemblance is a sweet, sweet icing on the cake. It doesn't hinder my experience with it.

    It practically enhances it.
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  2. #2
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    That's funny because I was just looking to get 'GTAV, SRIV' etc. LOL

    A Video game is really just an Art concept selling the concept and not really the story or characters.

    I find it rehabilitating to make the character as much like yourself as possible and give it a stereophonic feel.

    Anyway. I found a character that also looks like Lynch, in a way.



    Co-op is a beast though. It really takes 4 people to play this or you die every 5 seconds.
    XZX WAS HERE

  3. #3
    only GTAV doesnt have that stupid mosaic box when you shoot someone everyone hates, hope they reboot this game like they did with Deus Ex and get rid of that kiddie krap. Whoever was censoring kane and lynch 2 went a bit overboard I guess because of the laws in germany but no need to punish the rest of the world. If those mosaics were in the screenshots noone would have even bought the game, thats why none of them are in the screenshots, because marketing knew it was like the worst idea ever in gaming.

  4. #4
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    I get this way sometimes in games but there's a cure. To start 'Kane & Lynch 1 or 2' and try to play perfectly, without actually being shot even once... LOL In reality, you can't get dhot like they do in game passiveness.

    Germany also bans and illegals having most heavy metal that comes out because it's deemed white racist music. LOL 'White Warrior' was a big one.
    XZX WAS HERE

  5. #5
    I also thought some parts of gta 5 felt a bit kane and lynchy ! (I didn't really see much of a Lynch-Trevor resemblence though . Lynch is just a much more likable psychopath imo ) And I'm starting to think this is actually more than just a coincidence, since I had the same feeling, only much more intense with max payne 3, also developed by rockstar .

    It even had all these crazy screen filters in the cutscenes, kind of like k&l2, though I gotta say they looked abit crap in max payne 3 . But apart from those it reminded me more of dead men than dog days actually . Can't really put my finger on why exactly .. But it was more than just because you're running around shooting people while wearing a suit :P guess it was the overall atmosphere and alot of the locations that reminded me of dead men . Most notably the nightclub early on in the game !

    So I guess it's not that far fetched to say that some people at rockstar might be really into kane and lynch

  6. #6

    Arrow

    Am I imagining things, or did the forum user XZX got banned to such an extent that All of his posts and topics were removed from the eidos forum?

    Originally Posted by TheMoD
    I also thought some parts of gta 5 felt a bit kane and lynchy ! (I didn't really see much of a Lynch-Trevor resemblence though . Lynch is just a much more likable psychopath imo )
    Both characters do have similar characteristics, it's just that it's rather subtle, mostly through the speech pattern and overall presence they give to the scene.
    The more obvious parallelism goes naturally to the angry behaviors, the disdain for treason, the un-easiness they present towards female characters which end up creating particular situations for the lead protagonist to handle and etc. Though of course plenty of major differences that separates one character from the other are there, Lynch is a much less calculating person than Trevor is for example, or the fact that Lynch hates flying but flight is one of Trevor's specialties.
    But in the end the resemblance kind of wins over.

    The biggest factor that comes into play however is how his relationship with the leading protagonist acts as an 'over the top GTA version' of Lynch and Kane.
    Essentially, what if the whole "a flawed mercenary and a medicated psychopath" plotline was allowed to roam free in a sandbox game.

    It's also worth noting that both Lynch and Trevor were originally designed in their respective games as being the 'sidekick' before being promoted to supporting character and finally sharing the leading role.

    The Kane/Michael parallel just eases up the whole impression that this game is what Kane & Lynch could have alternatively looked like.

    In a more light-hearted tone, perhaps, but I find it worth complementing.


    Originally Posted by TheMoD
    And I'm starting to think this is actually more than just a coincidence, since I had the same feeling, only much more intense with max payne 3, also developed by rockstar .

    It even had all these crazy screen filters in the cutscenes, kind of like k&l2, though I gotta say they looked abit crap in max payne 3 .
    And to think that noise filter from Dog Days was inspired by Rockstar's Manhunt to begin with ...
    And to some extent to The Lost and Damned as well, along with both games pension for 'torturous' experimentations.


    Originally Posted by TheMoD
    But apart from those it reminded me more of dead men than dog days actually . Can't really put my finger on why exactly .. But it was more than just because you're running around shooting people while wearing a suit :P guess it was the overall atmosphere and alot of the locations that reminded me of dead men . Most notably the nightclub early on in the game !
    Remember that scene early on in Dead Men, in the beginning of the third chapter, where the duo waits for the Vaultbreaker to arrive?
    Once he does the cutscene ends, immediately transiting to gameplay, and you now have to walk a set of stairs down to meet the Vaultbreaker, and as you approaches the van you see the man stepping out of his car, and this is still in-gameplay motion. Then you have a brief cutscene where they discuss on the bank heist and the camera pans back to reveal the building the stage will take place in, and then immediately resume back to gameplay with the camera re-adjusting to its initial level, and you get to navigate across rooftops and into the building you saw from afar and spend the rest of the level in its interiors.

    It's this kind of design, set-up, and direction that oddly enough was missing in Dog Days, but present all throughout Grand Theft Auto V. Where the narrative and the gameplay goes through a seamless motion, and a visual importance is given to the locales where the action would take place in. Where a character walks in order to give breath to the scenery and not just run through it like if it was a meaningless stage.

    Only that Rockstar had a higher budget and longer development time compare to IO.

    Therefor yes, V does act more as a Dead Men reboot than that of Dog Days, maybe I wasn't clear enough in the initial post. And maybe I also wasn't clear enough on the point that it feels more of a 'reboot' due to its method of presentation and not as much on narrative specifics, although that too had its resemblance as discussed.

    Then again I think initially did not wanted to go into specifics, thinking it would have been better off for fans to make their own conclusions.

    Kind of what I'm not supposed to be doing now ... hmmm.
    Oh well anyway, where were we.


    V did carry out the hit-scan and Down-not-dead systems from Dog Days however, to the point where it became an obligatory habit of shooting downed enemies repeatedly hoping they won't suddenly get back up and lynch you, with even the tiniest of pistols no less.

    As a matter of fact V's clunky aiming system did reminded me of Dead Men's infamous criticism more than once. Though that I think was unintentional.


    Originally Posted by TheMoD
    So I guess it's not that far fetched to say that some people at rockstar might be really into kane and lynch
    It only seems natural considering the similarities both Kane & Lynch games' opening sequence had compare to past GTAs.
    GTA III and Dead Men both began with a bust-out of a prison transport.
    Vice City and Dog Days both had our protagonist flown over to a city that is neon-soaked on one side and poor derelict on the other, going through a simple deal that instantly goes wrong, and the entire finale of helicopter vs. skyscraper event was reminiscent of Vice City Stories.

    At least two viral commercials of Dead Men directly called out to GTA IV: one being the fact IV was delayed from fall 2007 to spring 2008 where Lynch complained about it, and another lifted the title of GTA IV's second trailer, "That Special Someone", where Kane used it to directly refer to Lynch.

    And we haven't even touched the whole heist/Fragile Alliance thing.


    Some aspects of GTA V also reminded me of the 2011 film "Drive", also set in Los Angeles.
    The cop chases, especially at night, and some of the instrumental musical choices had similarities. Then you find out that there's actually a direct reference to Drive in GTA V in the form of a white jacket with a yellow crab in the back, and your mind explodes.

    I mention this because Drive itself did had aspects, specifically the 'cleanness' of its cinematography that reminded me of some of Dead Men's moments, and I wondered at the time if it simply wasn't a "Danish thing" considering how Drive's director was as Danish as the creators of Kane & Lynch are.

    Or maybe they were all of the same age and grew up with the same passion for this particular cinematography, I don't know.


    Hi, i'm the one who makes Wall of Text Armadas in a unhinged regular fashion.
    If you remember me, best start taking your pills again.

  7. #7

    Question

    Right, so I've finally got to play Max Payne 3, much to Beardy Hephaestus' delight I imagine.
    As good as a shooter it is, I completely fail to see how it resembles Kane & Lynch in any 'meaningful' way.
    There's some aesthetic references, sure, the film grain, the grey suit, the airport tarmac and so on... but it neither plays nor feels like a Kane & Lynch game. So I was quite surprised to see how Max Payne 3 has a reputation of being 'a rather good Kane & Lynch sequel'.

    The gunplay is too precise and accurate to be a wild chaos ignited by Lynch and Kane, the story, or rather the narration dialogue, is simply too hilarious and filled with black humor to be near the ever depressing faces of our favorite duo.
    Max Payne 3 is a terrifically entertaining game, the gunplay is ridiculously underrated, and the narration makes it easily one of the funniest game I've ever played; if there ever was a common world where video game characters live in, Max would have been a stand-up comedian genius at the town's most prestigious Guinness pub, I mean he is unbelievably self-conscious of the cliché situation he's surrounded with and can't stop poking fun of standard conventions and tropes of a gaming/shooter protagonist.

    I think people meant especially that, from a gameplay standpoint, the precise and kinesthetically pleasing gunplay is something they 'wished' it was how the Kane & Lynch franchise is built around with.
    Fair enough. Although I suppose you have to take into account Rockstar's massively generous budget wallet to include such physics.

    Although a bigger oddity is why is it Max Payne 3's shooting mechanics isn't used in Rockstar Games' sandbox titles. Lord Knows just how much the stiffness of Red Dead Redemption and Grand Theft Auto V would have benefited from Max Payne 3's flexible mechanics.

    Christ, Grand Theft Auto V is unplayable without the auto-aim turned on, a far cry from its five year old predecessor, IV.

    If anything, Max Payne 3 reminded me a lot more of Hitman Absolution than Kane & Lynch.
    Absolution also had this design focused on putting this one singular stoic character through an linear and oppressing environment, but one where the protagonist is made to 'walk' through the environment rather than sprint through it, where the color palette is greatly accentuated, and the story follows a similar predicament but taking a more straight and serious route and without Max's humor.

    Some Max Payne 3's original score Does however have a lot more in common with Kane & Lynch, specifically Jesper Kyd's past works and influence, than the rest of the game did.
    This track for example, the third track, for the game's third level, titled 'Painkillers'. First time I heard it, it send me quite a few nostalgic vibes, very Jesper Kyd-ian.

    Hi, i'm the one who makes Wall of Text Armadas in a unhinged regular fashion.
    If you remember me, best start taking your pills again.