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Thread: How to improve the nextgen Deus Ex! Share your ideas!

How to improve the nextgen Deus Ex! Share your ideas!

  1. #1

    How to improve the nextgen Deus Ex! Share your ideas!

    Dear Deus EX team, Dear Eidos Montreal,

    I am a big fan (since 2000) of the Deus EX Franchise and I was very satisfied with your latest addition to the world of deus ex. But in my humble opinion you could increase the game's quality considerably with some ideas and innovations.

    Though these ideas where in my head for a long time I finally decided to actually write down my criticisms and would be proud if you could at least consider them in your upcoming Next-Gen Deus Ex title.

    Leveldesign:
    ============
    I loved the amount of detail you delivered, but the world was static. You couldn't interact much with the environment or destroy / shoot stuff. You could change that:

    - When grenades detonate they should for example destroy tables and stuff on it. You could generally consider more demolition to the environment you're in. I totally dislike it when I shoot at something obviously not able to withstand shooting, yet nothing happens.
    - You should be able to damage doors by shooting at them. A small weapons pierces the door, a shotgun blows parts away and so forth. This would change the dynamic of fights indoors a lot.
    - Switch Light On/Off. This is one of the most important features i miss in most games nowadays. It brings so much more tactical depth, if you can simply shoot out the light or turn it off and people react to it (or a shooting muzzle enlightens the room! Fantastic for atmosphere)
    - One of the most loved things in Deus Ex 1 were the many secret locations. Remember finding secret chambers? Or even secret characters? In Deus Ex: HR there were only a couple of secret passages, and even less secret rooms. I did not get the feeling I had in deus ex, like 'Wooo... there could be a secret everywhere! Behind the wall?' Just think about the tutorial of Deus Ex 1: Even there you could press a brick in the wall and find a secret meeting with one of the important deus characters. Implement that. PLEASE. I want secrets behind mirrors and behind walls and...
    The less curious players do not necessarily need to be able to find these places. Its something Deus Ex gave me: An incredible world I was getting sucked into. (I remember being completely amazed at finding a secret entry beneath the big hand that you could already see during the intro in Deus Ex 1...)
    - I loved your vision of the city, but something you should simply NOT do is showing something and then not letting the player be able to reach it! It gives me the feeling of a restricted world and it destroys the immersion completely. Although you did a fantastic job of getting an open world feeling already, stuff like the metro, which was driving above the city, is something I get depressed over. The whole time i thought: Man! I would love to sit in it and see the view from that train!
    - I missed variations in the leveldesign. In Deus Ex HR, there were no minilevels like the missilebase, the gas station or the chataeu in france. Please add some more locations so that we have the feeling of really being sucked into a worldwide conspiracy.
    - The world simply had not much to offer besides questing like other games today do. I WANTED to 'live' in that world, but there were no small activities you could do that would make you feel like you are part of it. I mean, I could not even sit on my own couch in my own apparment! A DISASTER

    Weapondesign und use:
    =====================
    - I loved the weapons, but I wasnt able to use them most of the time, because I did approach a perfect no-killing game ending. Therefore would it not have been better to be able to change the ammunition to NON DEATHLY? That would be wonderful, I could have the happy trigger feeling of shooting at the guys, with the knowledge that I did not just kill their poor virutal bad guy lives So please: Every weapon should have a stun option. It would make a big game even greater. Imagine the fun, using a rocketlauncher, who simply stuns EVERYTHING around
    - I missed also some cool agentgadget stuff and weapons like drones, or even a laptop/notebook gun. In a world full of technical advantages its a bit strange: there are almost no agent gadgets and weapons. (Old fashioned Bond stuff would be a proper idea. For example setting multiple cameras by shooting or placing, you could see around corners on the screen f.e. and that would be VERY COOL. You could see opponents without being seen and stuff like that or getting codes and so on... Perfect Dark is a great example in this department, it had a lot of cool gadgets!

    Gamedesign:
    ===========
    - Make running and moving like in mirros edge.
    - Switching items and weapons should look like in Alone in the Dark. You actually see how you draw the weapon and user other items.
    - Implement more move and stealth options. DX HR was very basic. Compared to the great old Tenchu or even Hitman, the stealth ideas are tied (sometimes not evne that) with ideas from 1998. Almost 15 years later, I would be happy to see some moves and ideas shown in other games (Splinter Cell, you see opponents checking where they expect you to be), maybe even an augmentation for a holographic facechange? Or holographically change into new clothes (would be a counterpart to Hitman, with a SF Approach) Funny ways of dealing with such stuff. Think about Total Recall with Arnold Schwarzenegger.
    - I HATE STEALTH GAMES FOR THINKING THAT EVERY GAMER IS STUPID. Why do enemies suddenly forget about me after I got discovered just because I waited a couple of minutes? WHY? WHY not use the being discovered part to implement another feature? HUNTING. MGS 2 showed how hunting can properly be done. If I am discovered, I have to live with the consequences. Sure, its harder, but Dark Souls is also hard. And everyone loves it! Give me the feeling, that every guard can be the most big pain in the ass every felt. To reach everyone you can just implement said feature only in the harder game modes.
    - Please add more AI Scripts. The fights are usually pretty good nowadays, bullets fly, glass breaks, bodies bleed and so forth. But why have the stealth mechanics not imporved aswell? If they search for me let them do it properly, so that the result could define a new gameplay breed. Hiding on the run can even be more fun than just trying not to be seen.
    - Please add more HITMAN Stuff. Like properly hiding bodies in cupboards or stuff like that, or using the environment more to kill/avoid guards.
    - Shooting. A lof of games are doing this wrong. Very, very wrong. If I shoot/hit someone in the arm: I expect that his arm drops or that he looses his weapon. If I shoot someone in the leg, I expect him NOT to run afterwards. Its a matter of strategic possibilites and not of cruelity. The same for Jensen. How much more challenging is a fight when you cant just escape quickly because you're wounded? You have to wait until your regeneration augmentation is able to heal bones and flesh - just imagine the possibilities!
    - Graphic enhancement, regarding wounds. It would look so cool having a broken leg, or wound, which is healed and you can see it (Far Cry 3 did an interesting approach with this)
    - Add swimming again. I missed it totally. It was one of my favorite moments as I dived in the sea, finding a secret underwaterbase. YES. (Also something else I want: Shoot a window underwater and watermasses are flowing into the room/base)
    - Add more consequences. I missed something like the killswitch in Deus EX HR. Or the for me most awesome moment in the whole history of videogames: The scene at the air
    plane in Deus Ex 1. That was a magical moment.
    - If I crash a wall, I don't automatically intend to kill the person on the other side - but that was happening. Thats bad. I never used this augment because of that.
    - If I am opening or using anything. I want to see me doing it, see my hands interacting with whatever I am doing. (Hiding bodies for example, opening ventilations shafts, etc...)

    Augmentations:
    ==============
    - Mindcontrol (maybe even with a weapon) use other people to enter doors, scanners or comparable things.
    - Bullet Time Battle Plugin: Yes. You know Max Payne. You know Matrix. I wan't that. Nothing of the sort wasn't in human revolution. That sucked!
    - To be invisible was cool, but you could also add some kind of camouflage (like in Mgs4) with different risks of being detected and so forth
    - Weapon augments. I mean IMPLANTED weapons, like guns ins your arm etc. That would be very cool
    - Cloth/Disguise Agumentation. Hitman in Deus Ex.

    Detail Ideas:
    =============
    - Having an invisiblity item (holoprojector) to hide bodies! Very funny if a guard stumbles over it!
    - Having a simple world map, traveling from Sarif Industries to every location around the world. If you do it too often, maybe you get in trouble regarding your travel expenses! (Reminds me of the toilet scene in Deus Ex 1)

    Major Wishes:
    =============
    - Vehicles.
    - More Open World

    Keep up the good work! I am so happy that someone knows the franchise and did such a good job with Human Revolution. Revolutionize the game itself now. Add more quantity and quality. Games are about interactions. Make me want to live in the Deus Ex Universe. Proceed to an yet unreached level of gameplay. It's basically already out there: dozens of good companies showed the elements, now simply unite it and refine it into one artistic masterpiece. Please. MGS, Splinter Cell, Perfect Dark, Tenchu, Hitman and FarCry3 are in my opinion the titles you should look at. See what they did good, take the best parts and make it even better. Show them your respect by using the good ideas they had and make them into something even greater. The industry doesn't need 20 titles who are are doing the same things just a little bit different. We need a game which has it all, a game that is representing a whole genre. Deus Ex could be that game.

    And: Deus Ex is one of the few games with a pretty good story, it exceeds most normal boring gamestories.

    Please. Dont let us down. A lot of the stuff I mentioned doesn't need even need a big budget (lights on/off). You could even team up with the hitman team to make one amazing stealth AI, and use it for all Square games of the genre. Great synergy!

    By the way: Square was my favorite company once, but I think if they hadn't bought Eidos they would not be worth mentioning by now.

    Go. Eidos Montreal. Go.

  2. #2
    Imagine the fun, using a rocketlauncher, who simply stuns EVERYTHING around
    not sure if serious or trolling...

  3. #3
    Join Date
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    1,269
    Originally Posted by Berr
    not sure if serious or trolling...
    It's not a bad idea. The game could use a heavy duty non lethal option. My idea would be to make a full auto verson of the PEPS.

  4. #4
    Its simply an idea. Sure the rocket mass stun launcher is a bit... strange. My problem: I love the weapons design. I carry it in my inventory, but I do NOT use it. Because its lethal. Using the guns in a non lethal approch by simply changing the ammunition style would be soooooo cool. I could use a battle approach, because i do not kill people.

  5. #5
    Originally Posted by David Holy
    Its simply an idea. Sure the rocket mass stun launcher is a bit... strange. My problem: I love the weapons design. I carry it in my inventory, but I do NOT use it. Because its lethal. Using the guns in a non lethal approch by simply changing the ammunition style would be soooooo cool. I could use a battle approach, because i do not kill people.
    Ok fair enough and yeah, I take your general point, a bigger variety of non-lethal weapons would certainly be welcome!

  6. #6
    Originally Posted by David Holy
    Its simply an idea. Sure the rocket mass stun launcher is a bit... strange. My problem: I love the weapons design. I carry it in my inventory, but I do NOT use it. Because its lethal. Using the guns in a non lethal approch by simply changing the ammunition style would be soooooo cool. I could use a battle approach, because i do not kill people.
    They are virtual entities. Code & art. Killing them has no consequence outside the game world.

    Going non-lethal is a challenge as you are limited in the amount of ranged weapons you can use and have to rely on stealth, and this is how it should be for many reasons.

    Also, vehicles? Bullet time? Lol.

    Some good suggestions in there but others do not belong in Deus Ex.

  7. #7
    Originally Posted by CyberP
    They are virtual entities. Code & art. Killing them has no consequence outside the game world.

    Going non-lethal is a challenge as you are limited in the amount of ranged weapons you can use and have to rely on stealth, and this is how it should be for many reasons.

    Also, vehicles? Bullet time? Lol.

    Some good suggestions in there but others do not belong in MY Deus Ex
    Thank your for your oppinion. I am only interested in getting a better Deus Ex Experience. The wonderful thing about the game is that you have got various decision, which makes DX for everyone special, so more opportunites are moreways to get more people satisfied, even if you not use it. I do understand the limitation of weapons, but its very sad you cant use most of the implemnt items if you choose only to play one style. Why not choose WHICH non lethal weapon you take? Bullet time and vehicles are only ideas. Bullet time is for a man, who uses a deadly approach a nice kick. Seeing the bullets fly, using your augmentations as a supersoldier to surpass your opponents... Would make a DX better game for the battle guys. Vehicles: For example using a bike like in Headhunter would be cool. Its about a world. If you are in a science fcition setting, why not using vehicles? Like a metro, a motorbike or even a car, and if its even only t move between locations (like in headhunter, which was was very basic, but still fun)

    Edit: Sure you are right: They are no real persons, but if i intend to NOT kill that guys because of achievements and stuff like that... therefore i do need weapons, which is very bad. I would wish to use every weapon in a non deathly way. Mabye its childisch: But i want to shoot! Action attention whore incoming

    A small example:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qq2ig9ykQrw

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
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    Never too early for wishful thinking, I suppose.

    Originally Posted by David Holy
    Leveldesign:
    ============
    I loved the amount of detail you delivered, but the world was static. You couldn't interact much with the environment or destroy / shoot stuff. You could change that:

    - When grenades detonate they should for example destroy tables and stuff on it. You could generally consider more demolition to the environment you're in. I totally dislike it when I shoot at something obviously not able to withstand shooting, yet nothing happens.
    Absolutely agree with this. I'm not impressed by a bunch of static clutter. Either make the items interactive (at the very least, physically reactive to explosions) or simply include less items.

    Originally Posted by David Holy
    - You should be able to damage doors by shooting at them. A small weapons pierces the door, a shotgun blows parts away and so forth. This would change the dynamic of fights indoors a lot.
    Right on. Gives more complexity to simple challenges. Ex.: I need to get through a locked door. Do I:
    a) Pick the lock (they need to bring back some mechanical locks).
    b) Hack the security system and open the door via computer.
    c) Find the key.
    d) Blow the door off its hinges.
    e) Bribe a guard to get the keycode.
    etc.

    Originally Posted by David Holy
    - Switch Light On/Off. This is one of the most important features i miss in most games nowadays. It brings so much more tactical depth, if you can simply shoot out the light or turn it off and people react to it (or a shooting muzzle enlightens the room! Fantastic for atmosphere)
    Again, spot on. Also gives you more reason to use vision enhancement augs or carry night-vision goggles. You should be able to cut power lines, destroy power boxes, or hack into the power grid. Guards would be on the alert, but their impaired vision would allow you to sneak around more easily or get the drop on them.

    Originally Posted by David Holy
    - One of the most loved things in Deus Ex 1 were the many secret locations. Remember finding secret chambers? Or even secret characters? In Deus Ex: HR there were only a couple of secret passages, and even less secret rooms. I did not get the feeling I had in deus ex, like 'Wooo... there could be a secret everywhere! Behind the wall?' Just think about the tutorial of Deus Ex 1: Even there you could press a brick in the wall and find a secret meeting with one of the important deus characters. Implement that. PLEASE. I want secrets behind mirrors and behind walls and...
    The less curious players do not necessarily need to be able to find these places. Its something Deus Ex gave me: An incredible world I was getting sucked into. (I remember being completely amazed at finding a secret entry beneath the big hand that you could already see during the intro in Deus Ex 1...)
    Yep, the more reason to explore, the better.

    Originally Posted by David Holy
    - I loved your vision of the city, but something you should simply NOT do is showing something and then not letting the player be able to reach it! It gives me the feeling of a restricted world and it destroys the immersion completely. Although you did a fantastic job of getting an open world feeling already, stuff like the metro, which was driving above the city, is something I get depressed over. The whole time i thought: Man! I would love to sit in it and see the view from that train!
    I don't mind things like skyboxes, and part of the task of immersion-building is to simulate a larger world than really exists within the level architecture. It's ok to imply places you, the player, can't reach. Just make it plausible and not some random invisible wall that the character can't jump over or walk through.

    Originally Posted by David Holy
    - I missed variations in the leveldesign. In Deus Ex HR, there were no minilevels like the missilebase, the gas station or the chataeu in france. Please add some more locations so that we have the feeling of really being sucked into a worldwide conspiracy.
    YES! This really seems elementary, but give us more varied locations. The Missing Link was a step in the right direction. Less warehouses and narrow hallways. More variation is always a good thing.

    Originally Posted by David Holy
    - I loved the weapons, but I wasnt able to use them most of the time, because I did approach a perfect no-killing game ending. Therefore would it not have been better to be able to change the ammunition to NON DEATHLY? That would be wonderful, I could have the happy trigger feeling of shooting at the guys, with the knowledge that I did not just kill their poor virutal bad guy lives So please: Every weapon should have a stun option. It would make a big game even greater. Imagine the fun, using a rocketlauncher, who simply stuns EVERYTHING around
    More weapon ammunition types would definitely be welcome (rubber bullets, for example), as would more non-lethal options.

    Originally Posted by David Holy
    - Implement more move and stealth options. DX HR was very basic. Compared to the great old Tenchu or even Hitman, the stealth ideas are tied (sometimes not evne that) with ideas from 1998. Almost 15 years later, I would be happy to see some moves and ideas shown in other games (Splinter Cell, you see opponents checking where they expect you to be), maybe even an augmentation for a holographic facechange? Or holographically change into new clothes (would be a counterpart to Hitman, with a SF Approach) Funny ways of dealing with such stuff. Think about Total Recall with Arnold Schwarzenegger.
    Ehhh, I think you're beginning to stray from Deus Ex here. I certainly don't want to see more Splinter Cell third-person takedown animations, although it would be nice to be able to grab an enemy, put a gun to his head, and force him to type in the keycode or give you information before knocking him unconscious/killing him.

    Originally Posted by David Holy
    - I HATE STEALTH GAMES FOR THINKING THAT EVERY GAMER IS STUPID. Why do enemies suddenly forget about me after I got discovered just because I waited a couple of minutes? WHY? WHY not use the being discovered part to implement another feature? HUNTING. MGS 2 showed how hunting can properly be done. If I am discovered, I have to live with the consequences. Sure, its harder, but Dark Souls is also hard. And everyone loves it! Give me the feeling, that every guard can be the most big pain in the ass every felt. To reach everyone you can just implement said feature only in the harder game modes.
    Yes, very much so. This is one thing the original Deus Ex is extremely guilty of. If you fail to kill an enemy on the first shot, simply duck around the corner into an air vent. Within 30 secs the guard will simply shrug and go, "Huh, must've been my imagination. Not sure where this bullet hole in my face came from...?" It's dumb, and hopefully DX4 will push the envelope on this type of design flaw.

    Originally Posted by David Holy
    - Please add more AI Scripts. The fights are usually pretty good nowadays, bullets fly, glass breaks, bodies bleed and so forth. But why have the stealth mechanics not imporved aswell? If they search for me let them do it properly, so that the result could define a new gameplay breed. Hiding on the run can even be more fun than just trying not to be seen.
    I think you're definitely on the right track here. Imagine a cat-and-mouse style mission, constantly having to move and evade guards and avoid more active security systems, trying to flush you out of the air vents or whatever else you're hiding behind. Basic idiot criminals or low-level goons might not be very effective at searching, but as the game progresses and you face more capable enemies, give them better skills and stronger, more coordinated AI. Have them bring in dogs to sniff you out. Use remote controlled bots to search for the player. The only alternative is to avoid detection altogether, forcing the player to hide bodies (or not create them in the first place) and leave no trace of his presence (has to close doors, leave lights on/off, etc).

    Originally Posted by David Holy
    - Please add more HITMAN Stuff. Like properly hiding bodies in cupboards or stuff like that, or using the environment more to kill/avoid guards.
    Yep, I keep expecting new Deus Ex games to incorporate these kinds of things, and yet...

    Originally Posted by David Holy
    - Shooting. A lof of games are doing this wrong. Very, very wrong. If I shoot/hit someone in the arm: I expect that his arm drops or that he looses his weapon. If I shoot someone in the leg, I expect him NOT to run afterwards. Its a matter of strategic possibilites and not of cruelity. The same for Jensen. How much more challenging is a fight when you cant just escape quickly because you're wounded? You have to wait until your regeneration augmentation is able to heal bones and flesh - just imagine the possibilities!
    Just another reason to build from a regional damage system and not stupid regenerating health.

    Originally Posted by David Holy
    - Graphic enhancement, regarding wounds. It would look so cool having a broken leg, or wound, which is healed and you can see it (Far Cry 3 did an interesting approach with this)
    There's really no need for graphic gore or compound limb fractures or anything like that, but arm wounds affecting your aim, leg wounds affecting your speed, etc would be a very welcome feature.

    Originally Posted by David Holy
    - Add swimming again. I missed it totally. It was one of my favorite moments as I dived in the sea, finding a secret underwaterbase. YES. (Also something else I want: Shoot a window underwater and watermasses are flowing into the room/base)
    Absolutely. Even in the original Deus Ex this was an under-utilized feature. I definitely want this back.

    Originally Posted by David Holy
    - Add more consequences. I missed something like the killswitch in Deus EX HR. Or the for me most awesome moment in the whole history of videogames: The scene at the air
    plane in Deus Ex 1. That was a magical moment.
    I really hope EM chooses to "open up" the story this time. Show us more of the world-changing events. Bring back major players like the Illuminati, MJ12, etc. Show us the birth of UNATCO. And for god's sake, give us time to care about the characters we're either saving, killing, or fighting alongside. Don't have us fight a boss who we've just met for the first time, or spend the entire game trying to avenge the "death" of a character we barely spend ten minutes with.

    Originally Posted by David Holy
    - If I crash a wall, I don't automatically intend to kill the person on the other side - but that was happening. Thats bad. I never used this augment because of that.
    The break-through walls aug was a gimmick and should be done away with, IMO. It's just really not all that useful and only works in contextual situations, which encourages scripted game design in a very negative way.

    Originally Posted by David Holy
    - Mindcontrol (maybe even with a weapon) use other people to enter doors, scanners or comparable things.
    Not sure about mind control. I get what you're suggesting, but the body language/biometrics scanning equipment we saw to make conversation battles easier in DXHR is as far as I could logically go in this area.

    Originally Posted by David Holy
    - Bullet Time Battle Plugin: Yes. You know Max Payne. You know Matrix. I wan't that. Nothing of the sort wasn't in human revolution. That sucked!
    Ehhh, again we're straying a bit far from Deus Ex. I suppose I wouldn't hate it, and of course, I wouldn't be forced to install it either.

    Originally Posted by David Holy
    - Weapon augments. I mean IMPLANTED weapons, like guns ins your arm etc. That would be very cool
    GUNTHER MUST HAVE HIS SKUL-GUN! Lol.

    Originally Posted by David Holy
    - Cloth/Disguise Agumentation. Hitman in Deus Ex.
    This just makes too much sense, and I'll be sad if we don't see something of the sort included in DX4. At least give us the ability to steal an enemy uniform and sneak in to a guarded base.


    Originally Posted by David Holy
    - Vehicles.
    No thanks. Other than NPC and world decoration, I don't need on-rails turret gunner missions or driving a tank down the street of a city. Bot control is as far as I'd want to go here.

    Originally Posted by David Holy
    - More Open World
    Deus Ex is not GTA or Skyrim or Red Dead Revolver. Open world hubs and non-linear design is great, but let's remember our roots.

    Sorry for the super-long reply!

  9. #9
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    Regarding holographic clothes, there are feasible ways of doing this and still be in tune with Deus Ex universe and timeline.

    Forget about holograms for now and think about smart clothes with fabric that can change shape, texture, pattern and color; skin implants that can change color, shape (ie: face); synthetic hair that can change color an length; or even a body that can change size.

    These would be good physical attributes to create a key character like a future hitman (ie: antagonist).

  10. #10
    If by Open-World you mean more levels built as play areas than multi-path places then yeah that's a great idea. DX HR did suffer from a lack of freedom in levels other than the hubs (which were fairly restricted, but the main levels should have been designed similarly without constructed paths through a certain order of rooms)

  11. #11
    @ wildcat: Thanks, for the super huge answer. I see that you are also interested in getting the best possible DX experience.



    Just another reason to build from a regional damage system and not stupid regenerating health.

    I have no problem, with a regeneration system, as long as i see the wounds healing AND if there is an augmentation for it. So you can use Medikits AND regenerating health. Would be best of two worlds


    There's really no need for graphic gore or compound limb fractures or anything like that, but arm wounds affecting your aim, leg wounds affecting your speed, etc would be a very welcome feature.

    I am really into graphic gore or compund limb fractures, because its a way to show how weapons work. Dont forget: Deus Ex 1, was VERY bloody. Rocketlauncher on people made a mess. The game is adult rated. No problem to implement some gore elements Its a bit disturbing for me, shooting at people with a rocketlauner and the fall only to the ground, as if they were hit by a huge punch. Also a blood trail is something, which can be used to track you down.


    I think you're definitely on the right track here. Imagine a cat-and-mouse style mission, constantly having to move and evade guards and avoid more active security systems, trying to flush you out of the air vents or whatever else you're hiding behind. Basic idiot criminals or low-level goons might not be very effective at searching, but as the game progresses and you face more capable enemies, give them better skills and stronger, more coordinated AI. Have them bring in dogs to sniff you out. Use remote controlled bots to search for the player. The only alternative is to avoid detection altogether, forcing the player to hide bodies (or not create them in the first place) and leave no trace of his presence (has to close doors, leave lights on/off, etc).


    You are so right. That would be so awesome. I loved that feature in MGS2! Maybe the implement a cat/mouse cam. you can see, how the opponent is proceeding.


    I really hope EM chooses to "open up" the story this time. Show us more of the world-changing events. Bring back major players like the Illuminati, MJ12, etc. Show us the birth of UNATCO. And for god's sake, give us time to care about the characters we're either saving, killing, or fighting alongside. Don't have us fight a boss who we've just met for the first time, or spend the entire game trying to avenge the "death" of a character we barely spend ten minutes with.


    WOW! Thats a big Issue. Founding MJ12, Illuminati and everything. I want that back! I miss the Man in Black. Walter Simons, Manderley. It was awesome. I really feared them. Until i realised later, they can be deafeated! I was lurking in a ventilation shaft, the guy was sitting at his desk. Boom. Explosion. I was dead. I thought: MAN, this guys are the aliens of the Deus Ex Franchise. Even if you are killing them, they are deadly. Awesome. I would really love to see some old locations, a unatco headquarter being build, etc, the making of a man in Black ... I see great potiential!


    Not sure about mind control. I get what you're suggesting, but the body language/biometrics scanning equipment we saw to make conversation battles easier in DXHR is as far as I could logically go in this area.


    It would be cool, to get a cop doing things for you, and he is charged with that For example: Remember the drug mission? Imagine, you control the dealer him, he calls himself the police, tells them he is a drug dealer! Hahaha. Quiet funny. Should be good balanced, though. It would fit also to the core idea of Deus Ex Idea. Power/Technolgy and the power to misuse it!

    @ 1nfl3n2:

    You are right. Its not about the holostuff. Its about a new way to proceed ingame levels. Its always strange that you cant infiltrate Levels, simply by disguise.

  12. #12
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    Originally Posted by David Holy
    I have no problem, with a regeneration system, as long as i see the wounds healing AND if there is an augmentation for it. So you can use Medikits AND regenerating health. Would be best of two worlds
    As an augmentation it's perfectly fine, as long as it doesn't come installed by default. The player should be forced to make tough choices about which systems to install, and he/she should never be able to upgrade every single system in the aug tree.

    I'm perfectly fine with things like health regen, radar, objective markers, etc, but make them optional augmentations that must be upgraded to achieve maximum efficiency/functionality.

    Originally Posted by David Holy
    I am really into graphic gore or compund limb fractures, because its a way to show how weapons work. Dont forget: Deus Ex 1, was VERY bloody. Rocketlauncher on people made a mess. The game is adult rated. No problem to implement some gore elements Its a bit disturbing for me, shooting at people with a rocketlauner and the fall only to the ground, as if they were hit by a huge punch. Also a blood trail is something, which can be used to track you down.
    I agree that Deus is a game series for adults, and I'm fine with blood on the ground, splatter from head wounds, etc. People need to see that there are gruesome consequences for their violent actions. Maybe just include a "no-gore" option in the menu for those who are concerned about it.

    I'm just saying I don't really see the need for bones sticking out of your limbs or viscera hanging out of bodies you've stabbed.

    Originally Posted by David Holy
    You are so right. That would be so awesome. I loved that feature in MGS2! Maybe the implement a cat/mouse cam. you can see, how the opponent is proceeding.
    They started with an interesting idea in DXHR with the mark-and-tag augmentation (or whatever it was called), but it ended up being completely useless because of persistent on-screen radar and third-person cover cams. This should be fixed in DX4.

    Originally Posted by David Holy
    WOW! Thats a big Issue. Founding MJ12, Illuminati and everything. I want that back! I miss the Man in Black. Walter Simons, Manderley. It was awesome. I really feared them. Until i realised later, they can be deafeated! I was lurking in a ventilation shaft, the guy was sitting at his desk. Boom. Explosion. I was dead. I thought: MAN, this guys are the aliens of the Deus Ex Franchise. Even if you are killing them, they are deadly. Awesome. I would really love to see some old locations, a unatco headquarter being build, etc, the making of a man in Black ... I see great potiential!
    Haha! Just wait, if Eidos gives us mod tools/SDK for DX4, I think you'll find a certain upcoming mod very interesting...

    /shameless self-promotion

    Originally Posted by David Holy
    It would be cool, to get a cop doing things for you, and he is charged with that For example: Remember the drug mission? Imagine, you control the dealer him, he calls himself the police, tells them he is a drug dealer! Hahaha. Quiet funny. Should be good balanced, though. It would fit also to the core idea of Deus Ex Idea. Power/Technolgy and the power to misuse it!
    I guess I'm still just annoyed by the final mission of DXHR with the zombies (or "augbies"). I'm having a hard time figuring out just how augmentation technology would allow you to control a non-augmented person's mind. Now, if they were augmented, the ability to "mind-hack" would be a very cyberpunk concept. They already showed something like that with the guy in DXHR who begs you to help him, then is taken over remotely and shoots himself in the head.

  13. #13
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    Originally Posted by David Holy
    Major Wishes:
    =============
    - Vehicles.
    -Vehicles.
    -Vehicles.
    Bringing back so many memories. CoDEllite, where art thou? Or perhaps David Holy is CoDEllite, just matured over the years, and finally revealed his identity... Conspiracies. How many years has it been now?

    I think the forums are being rejuvenated at last.

    (click image to enlarge)

  14. #14
    Originally Posted by JCpie
    Bringing back so many memories. CoDEllite, where art thou? Or perhaps David Holy is CoDEllite, just matured over the years, and finally revealed his identity... Conspiracies. How many years has it been now?

    I think the forums are being rejuvenated at last.
    Hahaha. Did some troll was so hard over vehicles? I do not hope, that my suggestions are treated negatively, because of some User i do not know I thought vehicles would be a good addition. It simply has not to be a GTA, but breaking in a Car, streets filled with cars, hiding in a trunk, hiding under a truck, while its driving into a base.... Breaking into a car, to search it for evidence, or to plant a bomb. There are a lot of gamedesign ideas behind vehicles. They are too static in Deus Ex HR.

    I dont want a battlefield or GTA, i want to have a feeling of a world i can interact with. Therefore vehicles would be one asset, but if you look at my list, its only on the bottom, the other stuff, like shooting out light, or non deadly weapons and stealth gameplay mechanics are MUCH MORE important to me.

  15. #15
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    Those are all good ideas. Though you can probably use do car bombs with mines anyway.

    As for actually driving the vehicles I can only imagine that a segway could fit Deus Ex's game style.

    (click image to enlarge)

  16. #16
    The idea with driving the vehicles is unacceptable.There is no way that the community will accept it and me too.Its one of the stupid ideas like zombies were needed in DXHR.If you want drive go play other game NFs or something.

  17. #17
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    I always felt like the need of using vehicles in Deus Ex. Other than that, agreed with everything you said David.

  18. #18
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    Originally Posted by David Holy
    Hahaha. Did some troll was so hard over vehicles? I do not hope, that my suggestions are treated negatively, because of some User i do not know
    Lol. The username alone should tell you everything you need to know about CoDEllite. (and no, don't worry, you're nowhere near his league of bad ideas!)

    Originally Posted by David Holy
    I thought vehicles would be a good addition. It simply has not to be a GTA, but breaking in a Car, streets filled with cars, hiding in a trunk, hiding under a truck, while its driving into a base.... Breaking into a car, to search it for evidence, or to plant a bomb. There are a lot of gamedesign ideas behind vehicles. They are too static in Deus Ex HR.

    I dont want a battlefield or GTA, i want to have a feeling of a world i can interact with. Therefore vehicles would be one asset, but if you look at my list, its only on the bottom, the other stuff, like shooting out light, or non deadly weapons and stealth gameplay mechanics are MUCH MORE important to me.
    Now, having more vehicles in the world would be perfectly fine. Parked (or even moving) in the streets, flying overhead, etc. It would be awesome to be able to use your strength aug to flip a car over on to an enemy, or turn it over on its side to use for cover. I also like the idea of riding into a base beneath a convoy vehicle (would that require the ability to lay prone? Not a terrible idea, I suppose).

  19. #19
    The biggest problem with vehicles in DX is, where the would you drive them? Levels may be large but they require overcoming traps, platforming etc etc. Let me rephrase: Drivable vehicles have no place in DX, but cars as deco, Jock's chopper, etc makes sense, just not drivable. Not mention if you could have vehicles, the level designers would most likely trade depth for breath (for more open space to drive in) and no true Deus Ex fan would want this, and Deus Ex's level design s on open world games, even Fallout: New Vegas. Furthermore you could just run everybody over, through traps etc, instead of taking those challenges on directly on foot, as it should be.

    Final, dare I say objective verdict: No *** drivable vehicles in Deus Ex.

  20. #20
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    Cut scenes using the game engine. If this is not an option the videos used should be HD not a compressed format.

    60FPS. I don't need to go into this.

    24 bit audio. There is no need dither or truncate the 24 bit files to 16 bit and then to mp3 or from 24 bit straight to mp3. Just keep the audio in the 24 bit realm. 5.1 is preferred, stereo is acceptable but just keep it in 24 bit format.

    Better animations and no more phantom limbs. In Thief you have Garrett actually opening up doors and picking up items. This is a good thing. We don't need game world where items are picked up by phantom limbs and doors and things are moved by some mysterious ghost.

    No automatically seeing through objects you're holding. Use a button or combination of buttons that allow you to peek from the side of the object or over the top of it. If you still go the route of seeing through objects, at least tie it into the story and make it believable. If not, you've taken me out of the game world and I'm just playing a game.

    Multiple camera options. First person. Third person. Hybrid. It can be done, there is no disputing this.

    Optional radar.

    New game + mode. If players want to play that way allow them to play that way.

    User created content for console owners and SDK/mod tools for pc gamers. This will extend the life of the game and keep it in the tray. That's your goal right? To keep YOUR GAME in the tray?

    Better story. CONFLICT. CONFLICT. CONFLICT. Just go back to Aristotle's Coercive System and stick to it.

    Vehicles. I'm in this futuristic world yet I can't hop in a ride? I'm running around like an idiot or catching a plane all the time?

    Melee combat. Enough said. However, if you insist on going the previous route don't cut to the animation sequence. Pull the camera back when the animation starts and zoom back in when it is finished. Some good examples of this may be found in the Halo series where Chief goes into 3rd person when using certain items and weapons.

    Character customization. If the new game is not based on the lead from HR or the guy from the ED games then allow us to customize the appearance of the character (ME, Dragon Age, Borderlands, Destiny, etc.)

  21. #21
    Originally Posted by HERESY
    Cut scenes using the game engine. If this is not an option the videos used should be HD not a compressed format.
    YES! YES! I think the same. This crappy prerendered stuff made me feel a bit sad, because there were high quality prerendered Quality Trailers! Game Engine is pretty cool, because you can see the weapons he has got at the moment with him. I would stick with both, but not this hybrid stuff.


    60FPS. I don't need to go into this.

    24 bit audio. There is no need dither or truncate the 24 bit files to 16 bit and then to mp3 or from 24 bit straight to mp3. Just keep the audio in the 24 bit realm. 5.1 is preferred, stereo is acceptable but just keep it in 24 bit format.

    Better animations and no more phantom limbs. In Thief you have Garrett actually opening up doors and picking up items. This is a good thing. We don't need game world where items are picked up by phantom limbs and doors and things are moved by some mysterious ghost.
    YES. NO PHANTOM LIMBS. MORE MIRRORS EDGE STYLE!


    No automatically seeing through objects you're holding. Use a button or combination of buttons that allow you to peek from the side of the object or over the top of it. If you still go the route of seeing through objects, at least tie it into the story and make it believable. If not, you've taken me out of the game world and I'm just playing a game.

    Multiple camera options. First person. Third person. Hybrid. It can be done, there is no disputing this.
    Intersting idea. I liked the solution the offered very much! But more options will surely satisfy third person players!


    Optional radar.

    New game + mode. If players want to play that way allow them to play that way.
    YES! That is SOMETHING I DEFINETLY want. It may even offer more opportunities. A good example herefore is Vagrant Story or even Dragon Quest for P2. And it makes the game easier Very easy to do and would make so happy. Go for New Game +


    User created content for console owners and SDK/mod tools for pc gamers. This will extend the life of the game and keep it in the tray. That's your goal right? To keep YOUR GAME in the tray?
    You are talking about modding? Modding is always good, but works in my oppinion only on PC and not on consoles. It will start with nude mods, i believe Makes me think about an femals Version of Adam Jensen like in Mass Effect. Or on the other side, a funny augment, that guys react to you, like you are a woman!


    Better story. CONFLICT. CONFLICT. CONFLICT. Just go back to Aristotle's Coercive System and stick to it.
    Regarding the story: It was REALLY good. But still, there was missing a lot of conspiracy like the first Deus Ex and more links to the first Game. MIBs, MJ12 and so on.


    Vehicles. I'm in this futuristic world yet I can't hop in a ride? I'm running around like an idiot or catching a plane all the time?
    Vehicles would be really troublesome for designers and budget, but i want to see it also, like mechs or motorbikes. An easy solution would be a driving level like in headhunter. Or even small levels where you can use vehicles (like in FF7, bicycle scene) or simply make an arcade game hall, where you can play vehicles and make some funny comment about not using vehicles (Maybe Jensen lost his driving license...)


    Melee combat. Enough said. However, if you insist on going the previous route don't cut to the animation sequence. Pull the camera back when the animation starts and zoom back in when it is finished. Some good examples of this may be found in the Halo series where Chief goes into 3rd person when using certain items and weapons.
    I definetly want to see bare fists... its a bit strange, that if you have no battery and no weapons, you cant do anything. THATS DISTURBING. But a complex fighting system? I do not know if they need it. I thought the fight solution of HITMAN was very good. I know its Quicktime, and people hate it. But i think its a perfect balance of putting up a cinematic fight.


    Character customization. If the new game is not based on the lead from HR or the guy from the ED games then allow us to customize the appearance of the character (ME, Dragon Age, Borderlands, Destiny, etc.)
    Yeah, i would be so happy to get this. Most of it i would like to enjoy my living room! I honestly thought about building in my new house, a section, who looked like Jensens Appartment. Hahaa (Unfortunately it was too expensive...)

  22. #22
    All I want is to have melee weapons again (doesn't matter if takedowns are still in the game), and actual endings that are achieved by different actions.

    All the other problems I had with DXHR are supposedly fixed in the Director's Cut, so I won't bother mentioning those.

  23. #23
    Just want to repeat a big part of your opening post:

    MORE INTERACTIVITY

    Caps for emphasis. We need more everything. More doors to open, more ways to open them, more random stuff to pick up for no reason other than it makes a more believable world. It should not take me fifteen minutes of scouring to find enough boxes to stack high enough to get over a wall that I could get over with the jump augmentation. And yes, all this stuff should be able to be destroyed, just like in the original.
    Speed up the accelerating returns, 'cause carbon doesn’t work, I want to evolve and operate at terahertz.

  24. #24
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    Remove health regeneration. Implement partial regeneration as an aug and localised health.
    Get a new lead writer.
    Award skill points just like the original to discourage XP farming or promoting one gameplay style over another.

    Wow that was easy.

  25. #25
    Join Date
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    Originally Posted by El_Bel
    Remove health regeneration. Implement partial regeneration as an aug and localised health.
    Get a new lead writer.
    Award skill points just like the original to discourage XP farming or promoting one gameplay style over another.

    Wow that was easy.
    Okay, now go draw up the design doc. We'll wait.
    Make a cup of tea. Enjoy a nice cheddar. Always bring a towel.

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