Page 1 of 3 123 Last

Thread: Thief Movement Mechanics Q&A - Dev responses and all discussion thread

Thief Movement Mechanics Q&A - Dev responses and all discussion thread

  1. #1

    Arrow Thief Movement Mechanics Q&A - Dev responses and all discussion thread

    Hey guys, as promised here, I took your questions submitted over the weekend regarding the movement mechanics of the game to the dev team.

    It's an interesting read, that I think a lot of you will enjoy it - check it out here:
    http://community.eidosmontreal.com/b...nt?theme=thief

  2. #2
    awesome!!!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,337
    Great. There is nothing to be worried about. I can't wait til FEB.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    936
    Not too bad. It seems ranting here on the forums does affect something after all



    The transitions are really fast... like, really fast! For example, climbing up something takes less approximately than 1/4 of a second at the moment. You can physically stand up and check the coast is clear before you climb.
    Thats the only thing i didn't like in this Q&A.

  5. #5
    Excellent.

    The decision to seperate jump and swoop, was that spurned by fan feedback?

    They should still enable jumping absolutely anywhere. It's gameplay mastery to press the button at the right time, i.e not bunny hopping and making a crap load of noise, or pressing jump when you want to swoop- a mistake made by the player that may get him/her caught. And, of course, the illusion of freedom and control as well as any other possible jumping-related scenarios including emergent gameplay.

    Still, half-good news! It's nice that a compromise has been met.

    Game on/dev on.

    Oh, and when you are ready for me, let me know.

  6. #6
    Thanks for setting this up, b1skit, there's a lot of good info in here.

    "The system that we use detects edges in the environment geometry around Garrett. It figures out whether he can jump, climb (or whatever the situation might call for), simply based on the edges within reach that are being detected around you. There are no pre-defined hot spots; it’s handled in real time. Whatever you would logically consider an edge can be interacted with."

    Sweet, really glad to have this information. I still don't agree with tying jump into that family of systems, but it sounds like mantling and climbing will be just fine. I'm also glad to hear they've split some actions up into different buttons, seems like they're serious about getting the controls right.

  7. #7
    Different buttons is cool. No free jumping still isn't, and was always the actual problem, not the button combination.
    Speed up the accelerating returns, 'cause carbon doesn’t work, I want to evolve and operate at terahertz.

  8. #8
    also good to hear that they're playtesting a lot and make changes since E3.

  9. #9
    Originally Posted by Shralla
    Different buttons is cool. No free jumping still isn't, and was always the actual problem, not the button combination.
    They're two totally different issues.

    One is a question of design philosophy (and I agree with you, there should be free jumping), the other is just a question of whether or not they system they *did* go with would even work as advertised, or if we'd accidentally be climbing when we went to jump/swooping when we went to climb, etc.

  10. #10
    Some awesome new info here. Thanks Adam & Daniel! Still a bit upset there's no word on swimming yet, though...

  11. #11
    Glad to hear things are still subject to adjustments.

    As it stands right now today, jumping/climing is on its own button, swooping is on its own button – we’ve separated them.
    However, the big question now is, what happens if you press the "jump/climb" button in the middle of a room? Do you jump, or does nothing at all happen?

  12. #12
    Swimming might be a big reveal in the making? I trust that it's not of the 'letdown' type

    Good info! Thanks b1skit. Glad jump is on a separate button, and hope they're just one closed-door meeting away from making jumping completely freeform.

    ResonanceCascade, jumping/climbing/mantling has always been one button (the spacebar). Did you mean to say swoop in your question? Regardless, fortunately they talked about jump/swoop getting separated.

    PS: I wish I had noticed to try to change my first question. Jerion was able to answer that one in the E3 Ask Us thread a couple days ago

  13. #13
    Originally Posted by DarknessFalls
    I wish I had noticed to try to change my first question. Jerion was able to answer that one in the E3 Ask Us thread a couple days ago
    Don't sweat it - Based on the positive reaction I want to do a lot more Q&A's. I'm looking forward to seeing your questions submitted!

  14. #14
    So from what I read it sounded like you can jump forwards, backwards, left and right etc. whenever you want but not on the spot now?

  15. #15
    Originally Posted by Triangletooth
    So from what I read it sounded like you can jump forwards, backwards, left and right etc. whenever you want but not on the spot now?
    No. They seperated the jump/swoop inputs to two seperate buttons and by the sounds of things expanded on the instances in that you can jump, probably by increasing the distance/area around a ledge that the input is accepted in, which will allow the player to fail by jumping early. Complete assumption of course. Maybe they went over the levels too looking for additional spots they expect the player may want to jump.

    Unfortunately we still do not have a clear reason as to why this decision was made in the first place. I do not believe the bunny hopping reason given and suspect animations, ease of play or some kind of visual effect. I could be wrong but not likely.

    Edit: Unrelated but I love the ability to use focus to see the inner workings of a lock when picking. Shame I will never see it in-game as focus will be disabled. Perhaps it should have been a one-time use tool instead (one time per tool) like a micro camera to put in the hole too. Hey, we have a mechanical eye that somehow allow you to see inside so this would be more believable.

    One good thing is both focus and health doesnt regenerate at least.

  16. #16
    Awesome, glad to hear, b1skit!

    As for rope arrows, they should just put thousands of 'invisible-to-see-via-Focus' hot spots jam-packed on any given beam or other wood surface; and one 'visible-to-Focus' hot spot for the Focus users. The rope arrows would then sink into any part of the beam/wood. Problem Solved! Heh. I'm sure the PS4 could handle the resource hit

    As for not being able to pause or cancel mantling, you can't always check to see if the coast is clear first, as Windfeld Schmidt says you can. For example, the ledge in the E3 demo where Garrett uses claw is pretty high. What if there was a guard up there, or what if there was bright light up there? We even see in the demo that once Garrett climbs up and takes a step or two to the left that he's in full bright and detected. It's hard enough to see that there's full light there while standing right next to it, let alone see it from the ground below. What if the full bright light was actually a few inches over so that it was where he climbs up? I'm just sayin'. I know T1/T2 didn't allow mantle control, but I was hoping we'd see an improved mechanic here, in the 'precise player control' sense. Oh well; maybe in the next Thief... the new Thief II that takes place in this somewhat alternate reboot world... will have that.

    Darn, I forgot to ask if you can grab stuff (like a letter or loot on the ground or on a crate) or push buttons/flip levers while swooping. Even though swooping is quick, experienced players would be able to plan their letter/loot swipe or button/lever push pretty easily, to interact mid-swoop.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    The highest ground...
    Posts
    23,047
    Its fantastic to have our questions answered, thanks B1skit.
    All this information will be added to the FAQs thread asap.


    Originally Posted by NIB
    Not too bad. It seems ranting here on the forums does affect something after all
    Hehe. Ranting rules... its important to express yourself and make suggestions if you are not happy about something. Ranting that violates the ToU isn't cool.
    signature image
    You are only minimally modified. Omar can help you correct this...

  18. #18
    So, you can still only jump near "edges." I'm guessing this excludes jumping from carpet to carpet, or over marble/tile areas, or over AI like dogs, or any other place where's there's not a physical wall/vertical geometry?

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    936
    Originally Posted by DarknessFalls
    Darn, I forgot to ask if you can grab stuff (like a letter or loot on the ground or on a crate) or push buttons/flip levers while swooping. Even though swooping is quick, experienced players would be able to plan their letter/loot swipe or button/lever push pretty easily, to interact mid-swoop.
    Of course i can't know for sure, but i think that won't be possible. Picking up stuff seems to require you to press and hold the button while aiming at the desired object for a moment before you actually grab it.

  20. #20
    Originally Posted by DarknessFalls
    ResonanceCascade, jumping/climbing/mantling has always been one button (the spacebar). Did you mean to say swoop in your question? Regardless, fortunately they talked about jump/swoop getting separated.
    Well, one button but two actions (tap vs hold). I got the impression that now you'll do either/or with a tap (depending on where you're standing), but I guess that might have just been me projecting.

    edit: also of note, the mantling in Thief didn't work all the time. There were definitely some intentionality issues there, where I'd go to mantle and accidentally jump instead, alerting the guards in the process. The Dark Mod really improved on T1 & 2 by literal leaps and bounds here.

    Originally Posted by brethren
    So, you can still only jump near "edges." I'm guessing this excludes jumping from carpet to carpet, or over marble/tile areas, or over AI like dogs, or any other place where's there's not a physical wall/vertical geometry?
    Sounds like it, unfortunately.

  21. #21
    Originally Posted by NIB
    Of course i can't know for sure, but i think that won't be possible. Picking up stuff seems to require you to press and hold the button while aiming at the desired object for a moment before you actually grab it.
    The pre-baked pickup animation must play so it is very unlikely you can interact during a swoop.
    Just more consequences of the all too common animations>gameplay design principle.

  22. #22
    Is what I'm thinking, too, but figured I'd ask. Maybe in the next Q&A, if not answered before.

  23. #23
    But you don't actually know that, do you?
    I want your brain... to make his heart... beat faster.

  24. #24
    Glad to hear they've seperated the functions to different buttons, that's definitely a big improvement. Also glad to hear jumping won't be limited to hotspots.

    However, I'm still not sure why they opted for this system. It sounds like it will work well, which is fine, but it seems a lot of wasted effort to spend time implementing a system that'll ultimately contribute nothing to the game.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Oxford
    Posts
    7,374
    Great stuff! Keep these going!

    Originally Posted by InDIGnation
    Glad to hear they've seperated the functions to different buttons, that's definitely a big improvement. Also glad to hear jumping won't be limited to hotspots.

    However, I'm still not sure why they opted for this system. It sounds like it will work well, which is fine, but it seems a lot of wasted effort to spend time implementing a system that'll ultimately contribute nothing to the game.
    Pacing. I'm mostly confident it's a move towards slowing the flow of the game a little bit so that everything feels more deliberate.

    I could just be drawing a connection where there isn't one though.
    Make a cup of tea. Enjoy a nice cheddar. Always bring a towel.

Page 1 of 3 123 Last