Results 1 to 21 of 21

Thread: Can there be a peeace between the Humans, Hylden and the Vampires?

  1. #1

    Can there be a peeace between the Humans, Hylden and the Vampires?

    Where the Hyldens truely evil, can they be redeemed? Perhaps they could align with Kain and destroy the "Elder God". Can there be a peace between the three races? Can the Hyldens curse on the Vampires be undone?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    606
    This peeace can be done. It can be handled the real world-ish way of having a long drawn out process with lots of setbacks along the way but inspiring moments too, or if they want to press the easy button they could get it done the usual LOK way by having you collect a magical object from each species and then fuse these together to make a peace relic that would harmonize everyone's aura so the 3 species wouldn't want to bash each other anymore.

    Doing it the realistic way sounds like a lot of work but a lot of fun, whereas assembling the relic sounds like the standard LOK busy work we've come to expect. So I'd include both. Have the Air Forge broadcast a peace aura that punishes anyone who breaks the peace in the same way Moebius' staff punishes people. But that's just to keep the peace once you have it. First you should have to do the hard work of forging that peace. And doing that is going to be hell. Which is why going to hell is exactly what Kain should do as the first step.

  3. #3
    The closest thing to a relic like that would probably be the reaver itself. If managed to purify Mobius sight and Kains corruption form Nupraptor's attack. However it was thespirit reaver that was absorbed by Kain that purified them, so whether the hylden could be purified of their corruption from the demon dimension would depend of whether Kain still has access to that power. I would hope that could get at least some of them to put aside their differences and focus of their true enemy.

    That being said, even within Kain's own empire, the clans always fought amongst themselves, so global peace wouldn't be any more likely that in real life. Hopefully Kain could keep the wars from escalating to genocidal levels again as I beleive he's always been opposed to that. It would be part of his duty as balance guardian.
    "If events are matched closely enough to course, they have a way of restructuring themselves to familiar outcomes." ~ Scorpius, Farscape

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    522
    I don't see Kain as a humanitarian or hyldenitarian, sorry. The series are fundamentally raised on the echoes of war and such a fuel is needed to keep the player(s) interested.
    The potential "peace" (an abstract term, really) can be achieved, but that was never the prominent aspect of the games. It was just a superficial idea and nobody, really, was talking about maintaining the peace - it was more about saving the Nosgoth, at least for some key characters (such as Kain himself).
    Please bare in mind that the series initially started giving the player an option to play as "a dark hero" and is revolving around vampires who are drinking human blood. While it's said that it's a curse the question is - is it? Many things in the series are made from certain perspectives of the characters and nothing should be taken for granted imo.

    ---

    Now, from my perspective trying to maintain the peace or striving towards it is what I call cliche. In both literature as well as the gaming world. I don't mind it in some high fantasy books since it makes much more sense like that, but imo Nosgoth's filled and fueled by the conflict. So Peace is not an option for me. In fact maintaining the Peace is what's mind-boggling even in the high fantasy books. Let's just say that I never saw a fantasy book without a sword. And that's sad.

  5. #5
    Yes, if everyone would be able to see the true enemy, because as Raziel realized that the Elder God was behing every conflict, strife and hatred that plagued Nosgoth.

  6. #6
    I think there can be internal peace within certain factions. We may end up with some humans and hylden who happen to be loyal to Kain and at peace with each other and then on the other hand there may be vampires who are loyal to someone else.

    We kind of saw both situations in BO2. Technically, the vampires in service to the Hylden Lord wouldn't have lasted long due to his plan to exterminate them all, but under a less genocidal leader they could have been considered "at peace" within their own empire. Hylden like the Seer or the Builder might have been considered at peace with the vampires at that particular time.

    As long as nobody's trying to destroy the world, wipe out entire populations or do what ever it is the EG's doing (sucking the destinies from their souls perhaps?), that's as close to peace as you're going to get in Nosgoth.
    "If events are matched closely enough to course, they have a way of restructuring themselves to familiar outcomes." ~ Scorpius, Farscape

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    980
    Completely agree with Vampmaster. "The Hylden" are sentient beings, not a hivemind. They should not be viewed as a unified collective of anchovies with a singular motive (even if the ancient vampires took that attitude). Keep in mind that the Hylden Lord was explicitly described as "a leader among the Hylden, who has his own agenda". Any race is a very broad spectrum of diverse individuals, and empty vessels make the most noise. I'm sure his maniacal conquest binge isn't representative of the interests of his entire species. Plus, they didn't start the war, so I don't see what's to redeem, really.

    If written well, any future story should have room to include reconciliation or a deal with any reasonable elements among the banished Hylden, while still allowing Kain to combat the more radical "army the likes of which this soft world has never seen".

    I think this post gives an incredibly tight justification for pursuing this multi-racial peace idea as a direction for the story. I can't put it better in my own words:

    Quote Originally Posted by Tenaya
    With the Elder still at large, still fully capably of recruiting worshippers, Kain should be able to recognize the advantage of an alliance with the Hylden. If he fails, there’s no reason to think another vampire-Hylden war will end any better for either race than the last one did. Balance will never be brought to Nosgoth under those conditions. From a writing standpoint alone, the goal of peace despite millennia of bitter conflict and painful loss, is much more “cerebral” than the goal of perpetuating racism and war.
    "A return to Nosgoth is not necessarily always welcome: only the attainment of that final gnosis will satisfy us." – Sam Zucchi

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    522
    not a hivemind
    Well, they're not a swarm but are surely focused on reaching their goal without any consideration about it. Working in a unity rather then hierarchy/ranks.
    First there was the 1000 year war + the years in the banishment plane + they jump on vampires asap.
    Building the mass in the BO2, a creature who can destroy anyone with a thought, isn't what I'd call "peacemakers". But that was a retaliation for the banishment. They want to rule over Nosgoth, plain and simple.
    The Hylden are portrayed as strong and powerful creatures, who are both prone to fight as well as maintain technology.

    They do look like someone who suffered a lot, but they did cause a lot of suffering as well.

    they didn't start the war
    Basically, they did with the refusal to submit to the wheel of fate. It depends how you look at it. It is the main reason for the ancients vs hylden war. It's not "first blood" but it is the cause for the war, and they don't seem silly enough not to know that it'll cause trouble for the neighbor race. Regardless, doesn't matter really who started it as long as it's in the motion.
    Ofc, as usual, someone made the conflict and I'm thinking that EG's the main schemaster.
    A war - that's a lot of souls for someones appetite imho.

    What Vampmaster said is true and that's actually "nobody's land" attitude, but it isn't a real peace. What Squid was talking, as well as the first poster in this topic is maintaining something worthy and much more complex then a simple stalemate with nuclear weapons on each side with false altruism. I do think it's possible, takes a lot of work, but it's not necessary for the series. For me, Series are great with the concept of war. May it last forever.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    980
    I don't entirely blame the ancient vampires for waging war in zealous ignorance, but I see no reason to judge the entire Hylden race as evil monsters in need of redemption. To simply reject or defy an aggressor's will, is not to invite or provoke war. As far as we know, they were simply minding their own business.

    I don't think even the Hylden Lord's actions are completely unjustifiable. Of course, some Hylden factions which sprung up in response to the vampires' persecution have horrible things to answer for which came subsequent to that event, such as the terrible intent behind the Device.

    You're quite right, in suggesting that if the war between races were to come to a conclusive end, there might not be much more of a tale left to tell in terms of immediate large-scale action/conflict. Then again, you don't need that to produce a great hero's journey story. The only war pertinent to Soul Reaver is pretty much over before the plot begins, and yet there is no problem with that game.
    "A return to Nosgoth is not necessarily always welcome: only the attainment of that final gnosis will satisfy us." – Sam Zucchi

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Maryland, USA
    Posts
    7,649
    Removing the EG and stating the truth about what he was, which in fact he is the reason for the wars in Nosgoth, would wake some within all races up. However, if we're talking about removal of the EG only after events have already played out as they have, then it wouldn't mean much for peace relations. For the Hylden race, as they state themselves, they haven't just been made ugly in the hell-like realm of the Demon Dimension, they've been driven mad, insane. Now, we haven't seen fully to what extent, and perhaps some are more lucid than others, but that must be taken into account. Some forms of insanity in our world are incurable, and you wouldn't want someone afflicted running around the world loose, so imagine how hard it would be to heal someone driven mad in hell for thousands of years. The ancient vampires are all dead, and actually, so are all of the ones they and Vorador sired, so really, it's hard to heal them at this point, too. Kain's the only one who could change his mind on that front. Humans would need a lot to wake up to, and I very much doubt Kain cares about doing so.



    If you go back in time and remove the EG from being in the first place, then you have no religious zealotry from the ancients and no calls from this false god to make the Hylden believe, or else. The ancients, depending on the murals, show a humanity either worthiping them, or in servitude. Some of these murals are post curse, so it's unclear if they coexisted without the servitude part before. We see the same type of using of humans by the Hylden in their murals, pre-banishment, and they definitely state in BO2 that they took them out of their caves and such, more like pets, or something to experiment on than living in harmony. I wouldn't think that just removing the EG would magically make things all better, even then. Possibly the Ancients and Hylden would coexist without annihilating each other, but how would they treat humanity? Would they eventually have wars break out over discourse? Land? Other politics, or belief systems? Probably.

    However, at least their spats wouldn't be purposefully used to fuel an every-increasing greedy entity that feasts on their souls.

    Back to if the EG was to be removed now, after these events: I think some commonality to fight the unseen god in the EG might be possible, but I think it would be fleeting, and few and far between even after such a truth would be revealed. As is the case with many stories, hinted above: moving past differences to fight a common foe only goes so far, and it's not long before in these stories conflict breaks out again. It's not just to sell more books, etc., but it's a reflection of our own human history -- as these games are also.

    Also, these games have always been about the gray area, that nothing is ever so simple, or so white and black. Talk of relying on crutches of relics above made me raise an eyebrow. The only relics ever used are to imbue weapons, open doors. They've never been seen to make something considered evil good, or to wash away complex histories. Even the paradoxical moments that alter history do so only slightly (and aren't caused by relics, but more a being), and with near dire consequences. A tyrannical army is wiped from existence, only to be replaced by another, for instance. Nothing has ever been that easy in Nosgoth, and I doubt there is some magic relic waiting out there, even the Reaver, that can magically make the world a place where all are at peace.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    522
    @ Cor : Yes, I agree that Hylden are the least ones to blame for anything, however I still keep my though of them being the initiators behind. My speculation is that it's them who made the EG, or, at least, someone from the Hylden race. But that's a nice little area of imagination, and imagination only...
    As stated, and confirmed, nothing's that simple in Nosgoth. Exactly that gray area is what's making it so interesting imo.
    I think that the LoK audience isn't that immature to believe in "Good" and "Evil" alone, but then again I suggest that people reconsider the term "peace" since it's elusive due to a fact that it depends on a personal view. It's also abstract.
    While it's possible to keep the "+ and -" in response to the "Good and Evil", the fundamental concept of existence, there're no races nor characters in the LoK who are either. In fact it's hard to imagine "primordial good" or "primordial evil" being applied to LoK series, or the mere human existence for that matter.
    To seek the "peace" it would require the philosophy and somewhat utopian thinking or reaching the nirvana among the Vampires, Hylden and Humans.
    I mean, how uncool is that? Imagine all three of them meditating or drinking the juice. No. Just no. Can't happen. And I hope that it'll remain just in the sense of "an idea" and an area of imagination.

    Heh, this is exactly one of the major factors in the later episodes of the Naruto anime. Trying to reach the peace in a world filled with everlasting hatred and conflict. Gotta love metaphors.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    606
    (in response to the last part of The Hylden's post)
    Well the Air Forge is a mega-Moe-staff sitting there waiting to be adjusted to this purpose, as stated. You'd use it as training wheels for the peace, as a haven of hope inside which people would learn to overcome the prejudices of history so that the peace torch wouldn't blow out due to knee-jerk rage reactions or random angry mob formation, etc. Then once the fires of renewed hope were burning on their own and everyone had developed the capacity to deal with each other again, you'd take the training wheels off and see if Nosgoth had learned how to BALANCE and ride its bike without falling down. (It wouldn't be a Moe-staff police state forever).

    I'm also picturing there'd be a series of (top secret) major events on the hell side before hylden were ever trusted in nosgoth--this would be the real galvanizing location where the trust was built. The peace training wheels on the Nosgoth side would just be to catch the stragglers, the "slow adapters" who lagged behind the rest. And though no society is a hive mind, the hyldees do currently have the "advantage" of being housed in hell where they're all in a "hive state" of shared experience (though some might be cheating to reduce their pain at the expense of other hylden)---but the point is that if the Scion made a breakthrough in cultural understanding it'd have an excellent chance of being a nearly universal breakthrough that reached the vast majority of hylden hearts. THAT's an opportunity our world's peacemakers have always lacked but it's something available for Kain to take advantage of in LOK. It might help to explain his greater success at creating lasting peace.

    And the pillars would also chip in by providing the returning hyldens with laser surgery for the soul: Most of the effects of their stay in hell would slough off and fall away, leaving their bodies, minds, and souls mostly healed from the immediate torment they'd suffered so long---their physical deformity would reverse ala BO2 Janos' transformation, and a sanity-bringing renewal would wash over them that only the combined pillars could have gifted to them. They'd still remember the pain and indignity suffered, but it'd be distanced enough in memory by the pillars' morphine drip that they'd essentially be given a blank slate to start fresh with. Some would choose to fall back into the old hatreds and cause problems, but most would choose to sign on to the new direction their species was taking because the Scion would have made it so obvious that change had finally come and he wouldn't be lying because this is the final victory over EG. Both vampires and hylden would come to see themselves as horribly duped children whose time to grow up had come. It would have that kind of momentum behind it. Getting rid of their respective religions would almost have a sense of religious conviction fueling it. The kind of cultural push that succeeds because it's the strongest thing there is. It'd be fated to break toward order instead of chaos. THe Scion now has the tools to ensure this by reading ahead.

  13. #13
    Vampires put the Hylden in Demon Dimension and need to prey on humans to live. The Hylden hate vampires with passion and at best don't care for humans. Humans genocide vampires en masse and almost end up wiped out by the Hylden's Devic.e
    In short, no.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    606
    I realize the series hasn't been going in the direction of peace or restoring order, but that's because it hasn't had the chance to until now. everything's been knocked off track for so long by timeline-derailing perverts with their "false histories!" So of course chaos has reigned. If the goal is to correct course and bring Balance back in a big way, fixing the divide between the species seems like the way to tackle the problem that EG created. So it'd be new to us, but it'd be a logical conclusion. Not saying it's the only conclusion, but there's already been loads of genocide and things still suck, so why not have the Scion's endgame be something different? I mean why would the vampires have needed a special Scion prophecy if he's just going to do more of the same genocide stuff they've been trying all along on this planet? I'm choosing to believe the Scion will break the mold and do something new by building something.

    So then I asked What would he build? New pillars is the obvious answer, but that didn't fix things last time. So I started thinking he was destined to do more, like build a fix for Nosgoth's forever war. That'd be the most blockbuster way to justify his special title. "Scion of Balance" seems to put him above normal vampires. Why? Because normal vampires are part of the problem he's here to fix. Fixing vampires, fixing hylden, fixing humans. Which brings us to humans...

    true, humans are almost trickier than hylden to solve for and bring into this balanced new world. as long as vampires are cursed, the human-vampire relationship is set in stone--humans are doomed to be food, adversaries and not partners. so to clear the way for a balanced future for all I'm assuming the curse gets cured at some point. Nosgoth should always have some fangers in it, so maybe some vampyres refuse the cure and live on as outcasts, but most are healed (or are born healed if the Kain clan is the main group of vampires going forward). Really there's almost none of the cursed ones left to worry about curing anyways.

    then the other part of the problem is that Kain would have to gain renewed respect for humans if we ever want to get our freedom. (because presently he'd just laugh at the idea). he needs to think of us as more than cattle. his opinion of us needs to be nudged in a more favorable direction by events in which humans prove themselves by bailing Kain out of some scrape he gets into. It'd have to be a rare kind of trouble where magic powers can't help Kain but having an army of capable teammates does save the day. Maybe magic powers aren't the answer to every problem, Kain learns, and is surprised by how helpful the oldschool humans are (back in the era when they were still capable because he hadn't stolen away our species' potential yet by turning us into cattle). Time travel could be helpful in allowing him to see the difference between the old full-strength humanity and the diminished cattle humanity, and he'd realize how much a restored humanity could add to the world. Also, in the future humanity might use the post-SR1 breakdown in vampire society as their chance to rebuild their technology and use that to help them stand on their own. That'd make them more respectable in that era.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    606
    double post

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    522
    I doubt that fixing the pillars can have a positive influence on the Hylden. The pillars are made to banish the Hylden and keep them there.
    The important thing is to notice that the Pillars and Nosgoth are essentially the same thing. They are manifesting the Nosgoth's health, and vice-versa. Since the Hylden are not part of the Nosgoth anymore their initial return would mean that the Pillars are either corrupted or destroyed which will again produce what we already have.
    Someone who's meant to "Balance" things did that throughout the series. Kain healed himself trough a long process and by using every single pillar manifesto, fatalistically. Let's face it - there's a strong sense of fatalistic concept in the series and it's not just "predestined" or "Destiny" factors, it's the unseen and hidden sense of fatalism where the regeneration process does happen but at a slow pace and in its own way by unseeingly using the elements of the Pillars themselves to solve the problem (ref : Raziel collecting the fragments of Kain's soul by killing his "brothers", thus making the purification possible).
    The role of a balance guardian is to ensure that the rest are in tact. That means both Conflict and Death have to work, which means that there must be new guardians.
    I don't see the Pillars as some sort of a computer nor Kain as some sort of a diplomat (though balance might be of that cause) who'll kneel down before the Hylden and ask for the forgiveness while asking them to return to the home because he reprogrammed the Pillars to keep the Hylden in tact.
    We're not talking about some relics here, The Pillars are magically imbued and are reflecting the same magic through a Guardian (note : Guardian, to protect from harm) as well as the Land of Nosgoth. I don't see the reason to subtly promote the good science savior of the world vs bad religion always the reason for the war agenda since we all know that the conflict will arise regardless of the motive, be it a political, religious or supremacy reasons. It takes so little to ignite the flames of war.

    The point is - I doubt that the working pillars and the Hylden race can be on the same plane of existence at the same time. Thus I doubt that there can be true peace. There can only be a stalemate.

  17. #17
    There's nothing to say that the pillars aren't multi-purpose, though. In BO1 and SR1, it was only mentioned that the pillars were somehow tied into preserving the health of the land, so they clearly have that function as well.

    There haven't been any specifics given about how the banishment worked either. It could have happened quickly or slowly or banished certain other creatures besides hylden or left a few special cases behind. It could easily be that the pillars just open and close the gates to the demon dimension and the person in control gets to decide who goes where once they are sealed.

    Also, while Kain wouldn't kneel down and beg for forgiveness there may well be hylden who would choose servitude to Kain over eternal banishment to that place. Perhaps Kain would appoint certain hylden as his new lieutenants. Keep his friends close and his enemies even closer and all that.

    It worked with the Sarafan, and any hylden who agreed would get a nice big chunk of territory for their trouble.
    "If events are matched closely enough to course, they have a way of restructuring themselves to familiar outcomes." ~ Scorpius, Farscape

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    522
    Yes, but that was during the corruption of Kain. He sought to rule over Nosgoth in his arrogance, and I doubt that the Hylden race will succumb beneath Kain or "A scion of balance" who's initially prophesied in the ancients history.
    The question is - Who prophesied it? Was it EG or Moebius? The events in the Defiance are clear that both EG and Moebius didn't see that coming. It was obvious some sort of a "gift" that the all-powerful ancients had.
    Or, perhaps, it was someone who traveled the time before Kain/Raziel/Moebius and the prophecies were made. In that recipe add "Stones too can lie".
    Another question is just how far into the future/past there's revealed to the Kain. Obviously, killing Moebius and banishing EG will have some middle -unseen- future.

    To adequately understand the Pillars one must give utmost importance to the metaphors and especially in the case of Kain and Raziel as well as the fatalism behind the methods of ~fate~ itself. It's the slow healing process that's maintaining itself trough the Nosgoth itself regardless of the Raziel and/or Kain (the "free will" of Raziel and Kain being restored). I don't think that the fatalism itself is bound to the effects of "Scion of Balance" but more of the natural energies of Nosgoth and time aka time/space continuum that Kain himself stated "it's too strong".

    So having that in mind the Pillars are not just the tools, they're the embodiment of Nosgoth and Nosgoth's history/present/future events. They're covering time itself (able to see it and meddle with it to counter the Hylden technology, sort of like a TV) but can't influence it to that extent without the major ingredient such as - The Reaver or more precisely "One soul" of Raziel.
    The question is whether the Soul Of Raziel is having such a great influence or is it the fragment of Kains soul stuck in Raziel which is undeniably bound to the fatalism as opposed to the Raziels soul that's supposedly "free", yet always in the Reaver.

    So, the Pillars, as such, are the antibody for the Hylden race and they can only allow the Hylden to penetrate in the body of Nosgoth if the Pillars themselves are corrupted (like a virus). And that's exactly what we see in the serries - the strongest Virus attacks the neural activity, while the system slowly regenerates itself over time with the undead and double-undead antibodies which are inevitably bound to the central immunity system.

    From that metaphor we can realize that the Hylden were treated like a Virus, a plague for Nosgoth and refused to succumb to the Wheel of Fate (which is inevitably strong) thus making themselves the irritants in Nosgoth regardless of the power of the Pillars. Imagining the Nosgoth itself as a huge "living" body using its resources (the ancients, magic and similar) to cast away what's irritating Nosgoth's fate itself. Where to? To another living body in the neighbor "alternate dimension" (or name it as you wish).
    The Hylden, even with the Pillars corrupted, needed alternate means to get into the Nosgoth since Nosgoth itself doesn't recognize them anymore! They need to be a mutating virus to be able to penetrate into Nosgoth. That's why they camouflage and need a strong cell (such as a vampire) to sustain them while they feed on their energy and go around causing harm to Nosgoth.

    So, basically the metaphor can be explained with a simple virology of why the Hylden are not welcome in Nosgoth itself. The Fate doesn't recognize them and that's why they need paradoxes and strong suits to penetrate into.
    Remember that the Moebius and EG couldn't "see" Kain in the alternate dimension? The Fate of Nosgoth didn't recognize him! Thus the Time Streamer, even while being corrupted, couldn't see the fate of Kain or his "rebirth" as a prophesied Scion.
    What's in Nosgoth stays in Nosgoth, heh.

    ----

    Still, there're some of the Hylden who got devoured by the Raziel. The question is whether they fed EG or they went directly into the reincarnation system of Nosgoth. That just starts another question - What made the Hylden to refuse the natural cause of birth and rebirth?! It was clear that they do possess the soul.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Milky View Post
    That just starts another question - What made the Hylden to refuse the natural cause of birth and rebirth?! It was clear that they do possess the soul.
    They didn't refuse the cycle. They refused to serve the Elder God and his Wheel. It isn't even clear if the Wheel is natural thing. Raziel and Kain in Defiane strongly implied that the Wheel is a lie, unnatural creation of the Elder God, and Amy explained the Wheel in the interview as the prison.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    522
    The wheel of fate is real, alright. Tough it might not be an object. The souls wouldn't even exist if it wasn't something natural to begin with. Makes no sense to even have a living creature with an abstract "soul" if there's no need for reincarnation and spiritual continuation. Luckily the series aren't completely materialistic, far from it. It takes somewhat spiritual/metaphysical perspective to really notice the difference since the souls do exist and are not equal to the material plane of existence. The EG just perhaps can gain some control of it, but I strictly doubt it. EG, imo, is an overfed parasite.

    Since none of the Kains lieutenants went to the wheel of fate, but instead, got energized into Raziel (collecting the fragments similar to the HP pizza enchantments in SR1) it's obvious that Kains soul can't go to the wheel of fate.

    Am I wrong? Someone please review this.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    606
    About the Wheel, based on what we know this is what I've been picturing:
    --the wheel of fate as a natural and necessary part of life (souls on 'autopilot'),
    --the Elder as an unhealthy growth that's attached itself to the wheel (abuse of natural resources),
    --the hylden as mortal beings who never achieved immortality on Nosgoth but who found through science a means of "resisting" EG by taking their souls off of autopilot and safely steering them through the afterlife (similar to how the Egyptians had a guide book for how to successfully navigate the afterlife). This detour took them around EG's mouth, prevented EG from draining them, so they were born healthier than the weakening ancients. They angered the Oracle by challenging his monopoly over the Wheel, setting up their own competing brand. Perhaps even using one of their great machines as an independent soul-spinner for their dead to improve upon the natural process (like how we build particle accelerators), all in protest of EG after they discovered the truth about how souls were being tampered with. (Maybe they scanned the underworld with some kind of sonar that pierced EG's Star Trek cloaking device and detected him as a horrible growth there?)
    --The vampires as people who were too heavily invested in the Oracle religion to accept the truth when they heard it from the hylden, and of course they then felt insulted because the hyldens' evidence would appear to be a blasphemy of the worst sort.

    If this sort of history can be pointed to as what sparked the great war, then EG can be blamed for the divide between the species, so uniting the species to cleanse the world of EG can become the thing that heals that divide. The god is the great splinter in history's toe. Relations between the species are festering because the splinter hasn't been removed. Remove the splinter and the skin can start to heal. The wounds of history might still require stitches and additional Neosporin sauve (meaning EFFORT from everyone involved), but peace would then be able to grow and gain momentum, like with any healing process. Especially because both species are so good at keeping their eyes on the target. All this time, they've maintained their hatred, because they saw each other as the deserving target for that hatred. But when Kain succeeds in changing the target to EG!!!!!! You might then see a remarkable change, fueled by the same intensity we've seen from the hylden all along, so that faster than you'd think the hylden and vampires will be standing back to back, shoulder to shoulder to face the daunting threat of EG together. Those hylden who aren't like the Hylden Lord might exclaim, "Finally! The Vampires GET IT! We've been waiting for them to open their eyes like this for so long!"

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •