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Thread: The 10 Cancelled Legacy of Kains

  1. #51
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    Wow, thanks a lot George for those artworks!
    That huge Hylden warrior is badass... well, everything I'm seeing here is!

    You know, thinking about it, the LoK experience isn't a solo story-heavy third person combat/puzzle action game presented with faux-shakespearean dialogues. No, the true LoK experience is speculating over awesome artworks made for canceled games

  2. #52
    That wasn't a Hylden. There was no Hylden presence in that (now cancelled) game.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monkeythumbz View Post
    That wasn't a Hylden. There was no Hylden presence in that (now cancelled) game.
    Oh, his wings are the same as the ones in Defiance, that's what led me to thinking that.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monkeythumbz View Post
    That wasn't a Hylden. There was no Hylden presence in that (now cancelled) game.
    Really, that weird freaky looking woman thingy with the spiky head and hole through her body, made me instantly think Hyldenesc type creature – the designs do look awesome, even the woman with the leaches on their back nnniiiiiiiccccccceeeee but maybe a bit icky

  5. #55
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    Perhaps the winged armored guy was a Razielim (probably not, but any winged vamps should be Razielim, if anything was to make sense there). Interesting stuff. I agreed with those that said it was too bright and even though the environments were pretty, they weren't saying post Kain's empire wasteland.

  6. #56
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    I must say that the pictures are amazing (this time, yes)!

    I figure that the Dead Sun game would be quite adventurous as well as a huge emphasis on the exploration. From those pictures I was thinking the atmosphere of the great "Another World" title, and i'm certainly overstating, but that's how it felt. It also reminds me of the great structures from the cutscenes of BO1, as well. One of the buildings kind of similar window concept to that of Nupraptor's retreat (at least reminds me of).

    The main character looks like he got the bad attitude from Kain and the body construction from Janos Audren. However he's still Venom for me.

    The wings on the heavily armored guy are way too small for such a body construction + armor imo.

    The picture with the leeches is kind of kinky.
    The use of female characters there is great, would most certainly appeal to the females (which is a great thing).

    Well, I think that the whole concept art thingy will most certainly make some people depressed a bit. But it's a sweet poison imo

    Thank you both for sharing this with the rest of the world.

    AND THIS

    that doesn’t mean it’s not something we’d look at making in the future.

    Completely fine! But no Venom dude

  7. #57
    It could have been centuries after Kain returned and healed the land, but we haven't seen if he even manages to do that yet and there's already plenty of unexplored time periods without jumping to a new one. There's too many story arcs still open to move that far ahead.

    If Kain does return to the SR1 era, I'd actually want to see him carry on where Raziel left off and open each and every sounding pipe in the silenced cathedral and begin his empire again with a clean slate. He wouldn't allow his empire to fall into the hands of the Elder God anymore than he would accept an empire of devolved monstrosities.

    EDIT: I must have misses a couple of posts there. I don't see the resemblence to Venom, though. He's a hulking great black skinned creature with huge teeth and a long tongue, whereas this is a blue guy with white paint or something.
    "If events are matched closely enough to course, they have a way of restructuring themselves to familiar outcomes." ~ Scorpius, Farscape

  8. #58
    By the way Divine Shadow, that Vorador's quote from BO1 can be found in better quality in Defiance bonus material.

    The full text is:
    "Did you honestly believe that you were the only vampire in Nosgoth? You are just a minor pawn whose powers pale in comparison to mine. Oh yes, I am also a vampire. Your greatest flaw my good fellow is that you have a soul. You have a conscience that hinders your hunt to survive. I do not have that problem. I kill for fun."

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Milky View Post
    Which does remind me of one thing I always found curious. Raziel looks a bit like Spiderman on those promo pictures, hanging from a cliff/wall etc.
    Spiderman isn't the first character that comes to my mind

  9. #59
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    Yup, that's an even better comparison.

    Although, vaguely, I remember Spawn being somewhat more of a macho type.
    Or should I say - less intellectual?
    I kind of compare the intelectual side of Raziel to that of Spiderman a bit.
    But the thing that I want to say is that he does look like a comic book character to some degree.

    ---

    this is a blue guy
    If that's blue, I'm Mary Poppins.

  10. #60
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    hah now i want to see spawn the movie again, even if it was cheesy as hell
    signature image

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dagren View Post
    the true LoK experience is speculating over awesome artworks made for canceled games
    It's like we live next door to the eternal prison in the Eternal Waiting Room. Where the magazines are loaded with these great vistas of exciting travel destinations.

    Quote Originally Posted by ReaverofCupcakes View Post
    I agree that it wouldn't have been the right game or rather the right direction for LOK.
    How are we in a position to say we agree or disagree with Square's decision to axe a project we're in the dark about. All we have to go on is it looks brightly lit and Kain isn't visible in it, so people are having a reflex reaction. Well we'd just seen Kain but we had gone a lot longer without checking in on the future. Looking in on the future would have been a good way of seeing if his newfound "hopes" had been justified. And it's a timeline series that has made radical jumps just like Dead Sun before, to show us new eras of "legacy." (SR1).

    And about Light:

    in Defiance we collected a LIGHT reaver, not just the dark reaver. Light and Dark are cyclical, and to feel complete the timeline needs an era or two when light dominates. You (the player character) can still carry your own personal darkness and brooding into that era of light, which actually makes for a nice contrast! (and sets up dialog like "Even though this place was brightly lit, the shadows had grown sharper to match, and something terrible was waiting in them just outside the edge of the Saradins' awareness...")

    Quote Originally Posted by The Hylden View Post
    I agreed with those that said it was too bright and even though the environments were pretty, they weren't saying post Kain's empire wasteland.
    After. Post-Wasteland. The Master of Vamps already took this one:
    Quote Originally Posted by Vampmaster View Post
    It could have been centuries after Kain returned and healed the land, but we haven't seen if he even manages to do that yet and there's already plenty of unexplored time periods without jumping to a new one. .
    People buy new cars and houses to make themselves feel more alive. It's the same thing here. By going to a new section of timeline we'd find the new and exciting, the twists that can still manage to surprise us. And just by being different from the future we expected, this setting would have commented on what had become of Kain's mission. If it was Kain's or Raziel's descendents who were getting messed with by EG again, that would have been deeply telling in its own way. Then when the next game came along to tell the real story of what happened to Kain and his dream, our expectations would be all set up to see how he'd failed, so we'd be ripe for the surprise of learning that the battle for the timeline was still very much underway---the fight had just gotten stranger than we ever imagined, with the Scion being driven "underground" thanks to EG ruling the "surface" with his new counterattack to claim the Dead Sun future.


    Quote Originally Posted by Monkeythumbz View Post
    That wasn't a Hylden. There was no Hylden presence in that (now cancelled) game.
    that's interesting too. it's nice to see they thought they had enough new content to stand on its own without leaning on the hylden invasion crutch. too bad somebody told them otherwise. it's like the programmers didn't win their boss fight with corporate.

    Quote Originally Posted by lucinvampire View Post
    Really, that weird freaky looking woman thingy with the spiky head and hole through her body, made me instantly think Hyldenesc type creature
    I was just amazed by that creature in the video, it really was what made the far future come alive. And it was neat to see the pic of her named SUCCUBUS, since I'm always pushing for a "succubus" type character class.

  12. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Milky View Post
    If that's blue, I'm Mary Poppins.
    Well it is, so you can just go fly a kite!

    Quote Originally Posted by TheSquid View Post
    And it was neat to see the pic of her named SUCCUBUS, since I'm always pushing for a "succubus" type character class.
    I just had a quick look through Blood Omen's script on thelostworlds and it turns out some of the enemies in Voradors mantion were succubi.
    "If events are matched closely enough to course, they have a way of restructuring themselves to familiar outcomes." ~ Scorpius, Farscape

  13. #63
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    I dissagree in the fact that I wouldn't want to be thrust forward past the climax of Kain's actions, being told, oh yeah, he basically righted the ship, so you don't need to see it.

    Skipping ahead like that would cheapen things for me.

    This is completely unlike SR1's "changes" which were very much with BO1's one ending in mind. If Kain chose to damn the world in that game, this is simply what it would have looked like. We saw Kain damn the world in BO1 and sit on the throne of the Pillars' remnant, drinking his cup of blood. SR1 is very much not a departure from what came before.

    This, on the other hand, would be skipping showing you the ending, yet saying things changed because of whatever ending it was, so go with it.


    Big difference.

    And yes the blue guy is blue and yes, Raziel always reminded me of Spawn. He's a being made out of spiritual energy, very much like necro goo, burned alive and back from a veritable Hell, with a white symbol on his "mask" and with glowing triangular angry slits for eyes. Everything he knew in life was taken from him in his absence and the veritable devil controlling him he also defies back in the physical world, going against the veritable apocalyptic mission he's on. I mean, it's pretty hard to mistake.

  14. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by The Hylden View Post
    I dissagree in the fact that I wouldn't want to be thrust forward past the climax of Kain's actions, being told, oh yeah, he basically righted the ship, so you don't need to see it.

    Skipping ahead like that would cheapen things for me.

    This is completely unlike SR1's "changes" which were very much with BO1's one ending in mind. If Kain chose to damn the world in that game, this is simply what it would have looked like. We saw Kain damn the world in BO1 and sit on the throne of the Pillars' remnant, drinking his cup of blood. SR1 is very much not a departure from what came before.

    This, on the other hand, would be skipping showing you the ending, yet saying things changed because of whatever ending it was, so go with it.


    Big difference.
    Totally agree with this, personally I got so connected with the story to see how it will end, I wanted to restore balance somehow, Kain went through hell, cutting me from the cycle of restoring balance would be a huge slap, I wanted to be part of it, I wanted to be Kain restoring the balance.

    And now it seems I am repeating myself, as I said before, if we only had The Dark Prophecy then Dead Sun, it would have been perfect, I am really a bit terrified that we will never get an ending to Kain's story.

  15. #65
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    I guess the question I have, though without wanting to present a false dichotomy or anything, is whether you would be more willing to go along with either a distant continuation like this, or a reboot series.

    'Cause we now have it on pretty good authority that Square Enix have no interest in developing Legacy of Kain: Defiance 2, and I totally support that approach. Unless there is ever a really, really devout fan at the helm, it seems unreasonable to believe that there's any success to be gained in ordering a new developer team to impersonate Amy Hennig's particular creative sensibilities.
    "A return to Nosgoth is not necessarily always welcome: only the attainment of that final gnosis will satisfy us." – Sam Zucchi

  16. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Corlagon View Post
    I guess the question I have, though without wanting to present a false dichotomy or anything, is whether you would be more willing to go along with either a distant continuation like this, or a reboot series.

    'Cause we now have it on pretty good authority that Square Enix have no interest in developing Legacy of Kain: Defiance 2, and I totally support that approach. Unless there is ever a really, really devout fan at the helm, it seems unreasonable to believe that there's any success to be gained in ordering a new developer team to impersonate Amy Hennig's particular creative sensibilities.
    Are you suggesting that if Nosgoth were to cancelled, SE would miraculously decide to continue with Dark Prophecy instead or that Amy has the desire or the incluence to convince Naughty Dog to buy the series or that SE would sell it if she did? Not going to happen!
    "If events are matched closely enough to course, they have a way of restructuring themselves to familiar outcomes." ~ Scorpius, Farscape

  17. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Corlagon View Post
    I guess the question I have, though without wanting to present a false dichotomy or anything, is whether you would be more willing to go along with either a distant continuation like this, or a reboot series.
    Personally I am not really sure, distant continuation is a No-No for me, I mean Dead Sun is great, but it hurts me so much that I don't like it, cause I don't know how Kain's story ended and I didn't take part in it.

    As for a reboot it depends.

    [quote'Cause we now have it on pretty good authority that Square Enix have no interest in developing Legacy of Kain: Defiance 2, and I totally support that approach. Unless there is ever a really, really devout fan at the helm, it seems unreasonable to believe that there's any success to be gained in ordering a new developer team to impersonate Amy Hennig's particular creative sensibilities.[/QUOTE]

    Totally agree, but I am still hopeful that somehow we will get one final LoK title to end Kain's story.

  18. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Monkeythumbz View Post
    I’ve seen the post on NeoGAF about Legacy of Kain: Dead Sun and I thought you might want a bit more information. I can confirm that this was a project which had been in development - but which was cancelled.

    I know it’s disappointing to hear about these things out of context, and whilst some of the details released are accurate - some details are not. You know game projects can be cancelled for a variety of different reasons and I know it’s very hard to tell from images and info alone, but in the end LoK: Dead Sun just wasn’t the right game, at the right time… but you’ll have to take me at my word on that, I’m afraid.

    Obviously, it’s not usual for assets from cancelled games to be released, but given that there’s a lot out there already I thought you might appreciate seeing a few more images that were taken from the previously in-progress game.

    As you’ll be aware, we’re currently working on a multiplayer game firmly set within the Legacy of Kain universe called Nosgoth, which we’re very proud of. It’s grown in size and scope since its initial conception and we’ll be talking more about it in the future. While we’re not working on a single-player Legacy of Kain game right now, that doesn’t mean it’s not something we’d look at making in the future.

    [URL=http://s1274.photobucket.com/user/WarForNosgoth/media/BC_BG_S_Gein_05_zps7aed63f6.jpg.html]
    Thank you for posting George. Beyond and above the call of duty indeed.

    Looking at the hero of this cancelled game, I still maintain that he wasn't right for the series. Kain was designed in Blood Omen to be the opposite of handsome, and though pre-fallen Raziel could have fronted a rock band, the soul-sucking Raziel that we know was a desiccated ruin. The series had a nice theme of not pandering to perceived notions of what a hero should look like. Pretty much every male lead character in a game nowadays looks the same: chiseled, stubbled, dark hair, et cetera. From Chris Redfield to Nathan Drake, on and on. Gein looks too much like an undead version of these generic characters. He's body image wish fulfillment.

    Lookin' forward very much to seeing Nosgoth.

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vampmaster View Post
    Are you suggesting that if Nosgoth were to cancelled, SE would miraculously decide to continue with Dark Prophecy instead or that Amy has the desire or the incluence to convince Naughty Dog to buy the series or that SE would sell it if she did? Not going to happen!
    Oh no, no. I think those are a bunch of crazy delusions which shouldn't even be entertained (not meaning offence to anybody).

    I'm suggesting that if you assume that everything Divine Shadow heard is all true, and assume that it would've lived up to its potential, Dead Sun already sounds like a miracle project. As long as they managed to at least hint at what happened with Kain after Defiance and explain why Nosgoth is somehow back to life, I would not have started demanding very much more from that proposal, conceptually, no way.

    It's no abomination to me by any means; I love it and just wish I could have played it, to judge it on a fair basis. This might be a lame philosophy, but after ten years, there's not much to bargain with in the eyes of these publishers. You know it could've so very easily been a hackneyed, creatively-bankrupt Soul Reaver reboot, and I'm willing to bet if it had been, it would have had a better chance of being released. They apparently took a risk and it sadly failed to pay off.

    I understand it's not necessarily that clear-cut, of course.
    "A return to Nosgoth is not necessarily always welcome: only the attainment of that final gnosis will satisfy us." – Sam Zucchi

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Hylden View Post
    I wouldn't want to be thrust forward past the climax of Kain's actions, being told, oh yeah, he basically righted the ship, so you don't need to see it.
    That is the drawback.
    Still, if we're not going to be getting a direct sequel ("Come up with a new character, guys!") because corporate decided the Kain character wasn't profitable based on the last few games, then I'm logically shifting my attention to how we might get the most out of an indirect sequel, since that's what appears to be in the cards, and because it's fresh in the news today. Sorry. I understand people's reaction of just shouting UNACCEPTABLE! when they see the plans for this game because it's not the sequel we wanted, but I'm saying Eidos should quietly send me what they've got after these 3 years of work on Dead Sun and I'll enjoy looking it over, and I promise to fork over a few bucks to them in return, keeping it on the down-low of course, using the honor system.

    I'd rather see a walkthrough of this game and add it to the lore than pretend to be thankful it didn't come out. Taking the high road as a fan and saying I'd rather wait another 10 years than play an off-track game doesn't guarantee the company will get the message and make the perfect game we've been waiting for. That approach seems to be based on an imaginary peer pressure that doesn't exist. I'd much rather live in a world that had several additional LOK games in it even though some would be better than others, some perhaps so bad that we'd claim they weren't canon or that they took place in an alternate universe, but those additional games would still be quite fun to actually play, which to me really is better than having absolutely nothing, and these additional LOK titles would keep the company up to speed and Nosgoth-literate so they'd have a better chance of finally producing THE perfect Nosgoth game we've all been waiting for.

    Skipping ahead like that would cheapen things for me.
    It's not the best option for us fans if Kain doesn't get to finish the race himself, agreed. It could be a fascinating slow-reveal mystery route to take, though, if Kain isn't an option. Specifically, if Dead Sun had "spoiled" us with evidence that Kain healed the world, but they withheld all other details about what had happened with the Scion and then made us look for clues as the Saradin details emerged,..... is a healed world such a huge surprise they'd be letting out of the bag? Because wasn't that Kain's stated goal and isn't Kain unrelenting and now also in the driver's seat after Defiance? So a restored world is basically sure to happen, because it's not like he'll give up on that. What's the crime of fast-forwarding to a world in which restoration is a reality? SR1 taught us that the entire timeline already exists. So instead of watching the grass start to grow from seed on day one of the renewed world (boring), this timeshift would give us instant forests (Bam!) to celebrate Kain's success with. That's a better restoration party. Except for no Scion being there, that is. Which would make our laughters turn to tears as we realized the victory hadn't been complete, so we'd turn to the Saradin world to look for clues as to what had really happened. I mean if the next game had been a proper sequel and its big climax was simply the restoration of the pillars, wouldn't we all have said, "Well, I kinda saw that one coming for 15 years. Couldn't this game have included something more?"

    Just stuff to say, really, as I continue to reel during day 2 of the shell shock. I wanted to see Kain get it done too.

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vampmaster View Post
    Well it is, so you can just go fly a kite!
    K, this is blue.


    vs

    this, which is gray/black with white or a really, really dark purple.


    And Mary Poppins doesn't fly on a kite, she flies with an umbrella. Just sayin'.

  22. #72
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    I also say that it's possible that we could have seen Nosgoth restored, and rather than it just saying "yeah man Nosgoth's restored. Want to know how? Too bad." that it would leave that as a mystery and as we play through the game, we would slowly find out HOW it was done, and maybe it wasn't complete. Maybe Kain would show up eventually and Gein would end up helping him, or competing or whatever.
    And he looks like a really dark blue to me. I understand why you say he looks dark gray (reminds me of the debates about Kain and Raziel's skin colors... Gein was continuing the tradition!)

    Though yeah, as someone said, he is a little too good looking for a Legacy of Kain main character. I think it would be better if he looked more horrific. And his clothes do look kind of off for Legacy of Kain.

  23. #73
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    ok time for me to weigh in on this design....

    1. - eeeewwwww
    2. - quite boring if you ask me..like too generic hero/antihero/whatever, like you guys grabbed solid snake and painted him blue.. and not enough originality in design..like oh lets say Elder kains designand the hylden....this guy here just doesn't grab my attention.

    3. - I don't like the idea of vampire posessing human or what have you,just let sleeping vamps lie..
    "are you trying to bore me into submission?" ~ Raziel/Defiance
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  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSquid View Post
    I was just amazed by that creature in the video, it really was what made the far future come alive. And it was neat to see the pic of her named SUCCUBUS, since I'm always pushing for a "succubus" type character class.
    The name didn’t come up on mine, sucubi are awesome we could do with some of those introduced in Nosgoth of course you’d need some incubi too! Which video? I only saw the one of the pregnant woman, am I missing something here? And if so please where is it?


    Quote Originally Posted by majinkura View Post
    1. - eeeewwwww
    2. - quite boring if you ask me..like too generic hero/antihero/whatever, like you guys grabbed solid snake and painted him blue.. and not enough originality in design..like oh lets say Elder kains designand the hylden....this guy here just doesn't grab my attention.
    3. - I don't like the idea of vampire posessing human or what have you,just let sleeping vamps lie..
    *hi five* totally there with you on these points, especially the eeeewwwww part. Though I do like the scarification, he does remind me of a bit of a tribal character but he doesn’t really fit with the franchise. The whole human possessing a vampire kind of makes me think of *shudders* the unmentionable movie series that begins with the letter T and ends in one too. "Oh no I'm a vampire *pout* now I have to drink blood to live *pout* woe is me *pout* oh I love this woman *pout*..." you get the picture.

    I would really love a continuation to Kain’s story. If it is not in the cards now (I hope that one day it will be) that if they do a flash forward into the future that they AT LEAST explain if the world looks shiny and new, that Kain healed the Pillars and the world, and maybe poked the Elder God in the eyes a lot until he was KO’ed.

  25. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Milky View Post
    Mary Poppins doesn't fly on a kite, she flies with an umbrella. Just sayin'.
    I didn't say "on" a kite. I saw referring to the song she sings.

    Quote Originally Posted by lucinvampire View Post
    The name didn’t come up on mine, sucubi are awesome we could do with some of those introduced in Nosgoth of course you’d need some incubi too! Which video? I only saw the one of the pregnant woman, am I missing something here? And if so please where is it?
    Like I was saying before, Blood Omen's script (available at tlw) has lines for succubi in Vorador's mansion. They were used in the game too.

    The character from DS might have worked a bit better if they tweaked his appearance a bit so he was an ancient vampire and changed the setting to a point where the ancients were still around. Maybe he get possessed by a hylden instead. Sort of like an earlier attempt at an incorruptable vessel.
    "If events are matched closely enough to course, they have a way of restructuring themselves to familiar outcomes." ~ Scorpius, Farscape

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