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Thread: The (almost) definitive Legacy of Kain Maps thread

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    The (almost) definitive Legacy of Kain Maps thread

    Hi all. For the last few months, I've been fiddling around a lot with layouts and maps for the wiki to figure out how it all fits together, and to this end I've gotten in contact with old school map-master Shrykull about the old maps he was working on and it turns out that he has virtually the completed layout of all the games completed. I thought it would be pertinent to add these together with the other official (and unofficial) maps to attempt to create an almost definitive maps thread for the sake of posterity (which cannot be completely done at the wiki because of the unofficial nature of some of these pictures). The following contains complete maps and layout guides for most of the locations and areas across the series, together with notes from Shrykull, myself and others. This will of course be long and heavy on the graphics (apologies for page layout problems this may present) and I'd encourage anyone who can fill in the gaps or add other notes to do so. Artists are credited where known.

    Note: For some reason certain editions of certain browsers seem to have started displaying these pictures a blurry or as tiny thumbnails rather than the full sized pictures that have been posted. If you encounter these versions, you may need to update or upgrade your browser.

    Blood Omen 1
    First up, the in-game map for BO1:

    (click image to enlarge)

    Next is the official map packaged with PC versions of Blood Omen and the Prima guide:

    (click image to enlarge)
    Note that with a few minor changes, the maps are largely consistent.

    Shrkull's Blood Omen map combines the individual overland maps together with the second official map:

    (click image to enlarge)
    Note from Shrykull: The rules of architecture don’t even apply to BO1…As you can see, all the city of Avernus can’t possibly be placed at the given area. I was lucky that at least most of the cathedral could be shown on the map! =P ...And the Plains of Blood I didn’t even remember. But I can imagine they wouldn’t also fit there. Oh, and the Pillars are an “off-map” location, I placed them there because it was where they looked better.
    Baziel: You could say the dimension powers of Azimuth effect Avernus, but there are a lot of this kind of "that can't possibly fit in there" confusion throughout the series and highlights that this isn't a real world and things don't necessarily match up as you expect them to. No way the internal room maps could fit inside buildings either.

    Additionally Aevum's map provides a similar layout attempt combined with links to the appropriate location article on the wiki.

    And for confusion's sake here are in-game maps from William's:

    (click image to enlarge)

    and Avernus's Heaven Realm:

    (click image to enlarge)
    which both depict a somewhat different view of Nosgoth, looking a bit squished.

    Soul Reaver 1
    No official maps but there is Necronir's map of Soul Reaver era Nosgoth including some concept art of locations and using Lucent's Nosgoth map (see below) as a reference for locations:

    (click image to enlarge)
    Notes: The artwork for Kain's Mountain retreat is actually misidentified - that's really an early Sanctuary of the Clans concept. The location of the retreat is ultimately unknown.

    Shrykull's map (with additions by Tenaya and Vampmaster) combines the room layouts (extracted with model ex) to create an overhead map in a similar fashion to his BO1 one:

    (click image to enlarge)
    Tenaya's Notes: The identification of specific locations and their boundaries was later added by myself, and displayed here with Shrykull’s permission. I’m told that the scale of each area had to be estimated using landmarks and connections with outer lying areas for reference, to account for ModelEx’s coned top view, which made higher areas appear larger than lower areas due to proximity. There are a few areas in the game that weren’t literally designed to fit together like an actual place. Also, the four locations familiar from Blood Omen don’t align with their counterparts on the Blood Omen map in terms of distance, however they are in the same general directions relative to each other.

    Soul Reaver 2
    The in-game Soul Reaver 2 map:

    (click image to enlarge)
    and a labelled version with the in areas highlighted.
    Notes: The map is again virtually identical to the BO1 one, with a few minor changes including islands in the Southern Lake and the Lake of Tears (which may represent the deleted sunken spirit forge and the Vamp Citadel). Also note that SR2's 'Swamp' area is south of the area identified as the 'Termogent Forest' in Blood Omen.

    Shrykull's drawing of the Sarafan stronghold layout:

    (click image to enlarge)
    and my own (somewhat simplified and rough) one with labels based on debug numbers and names from official sources:

    (click image to enlarge)
    Notes: Both Shrkull and I notice that there are things that don't match and there seems to be a bit of overlap between the Cloister (courtyard) and one of the time streaming chambers. Aside from this the layout of the gathering room and nearby corridor seems to match BO1's cutscene albeit with more murals and doors.
    More on the stronghold later....

    Shrykull's full layout guide combines all the SR2 areas:

    (click image to enlarge)
    Notes: The layout around the lake and Sarafan stronghold doesn't quite match the official map and the island is nowhere to be seen (which is why we think Spirit Forge). The waterfalls around the lake appear to be feed from water that presumably flows down from nearby mountains (on BO1 map/BO2 map) and through the swamp area into the lake. The 'arms' coming off the lake are not present in game, though a nearby stream on the route to the pillars (not on official maps) presumably flows into the lake. Otherwise with some scaling differences, the areas largely match the map and counterparts. The Pillars appear to be slightly more enclosed, with a previously unseen battlements entrance, but this does not necessarily preclude Kain's (teleported) entry in BO1. Ushtenheim appears somewhat similar in it's layout, albeit slightly 'improved' - most noticeably seen in the northern section with the addition of the church and nearby 'bridge' building - can't get inside houses to check indoor areas though.

    Blood Omen 2
    The in-game map reconstructed from the opening cutscene:

    (click image to enlarge)
    Tenaya's Notes:The proportions of this map are somewhat skewed in relation to the other games. For example, it shows the (Great) Southern Lake as being almost the same size as the Lake of Tears, which was significantly larger on the maps for Blood Omen and Soul Reaver 2. The mountain range that it shows to the east of the Pillars is also inconsistent with any maps of the previous games. Still, this is the only map that claims to specify what lies this far south of Ziegsturhl, and the general location of Nosgoth’s supposed, heretofore unmentioned, “capitol”, Meridian. This map was pieced together and reconstructed using screenshots taken from the PC version of the game.
    Additional:The Mountain range east of the pillars may be 'reinterpretation' of the rocky outcrop south of Vorador's on the BO1 PC/Prima map. The arrow at the top indicates that North is 'up' on this map,

    The Map of Meridian featured in some versions of the BO2 manual:

    (click image to enlarge)
    and a labelled version, courtesy of Daniel Von Stein
    Notes: An interesting one, it seems it may have been something of a concept art for the city. On the surface this map seems to be quite different to the other map showing the rest of Nosgoth. But if we rotate it 90 degrees then the shape of the land and landmarks match up, with the city expanding onto the nearby peninsula in the passing years (sort of confirmed by Daniel Cabuco). Directions given in the game (the Beast's "North" and the "East"(-west) of the Slums bridge) would actually work for this map if North were up here, but the rotation should make 'up' East. Is it possible the game was designed with this concept map in mind, but when it came to the cutscene and how Meridian fitted the rest of Nosgoth, this was forgotten or not passed across?

    Shrykull's map of the Slums:

    (click image to enlarge)
    Notes: The bridge is given as to the east in game.

    Shrykull's map of the Smuggler's Den:

    (click image to enlarge)
    Shrykull's notes:oddly enough the beginning and end points kind of point to each other and the Moon shifts from one place to the other extremity (of course in that last open space after the fight with Faustus the Moon there is just a sweet detail). So, okay, the Moon travels through the Night, no big problem there. What can we do, point the exit northeast? Actually, now that a take a closer look, in the Meridian model (from the booklet) there kind of seems to be a mountain there to the northwest corner of the city. And in fact the first area of the level is enclosed partially by a mountain. Then considering the parts where there is water (and interestingly enough the end tunnel seems to lead towards the water), I guess this map can actually be rotated 90º clockwise on the big map. Cool.
    Baziel:The Den was an interesting one, because designer diaries tell us that it was massively cut up and re-arranged during development (hence the result of the moon drastically changing position). As I understand it, it was a lot more straightforward layout before and this caused problems for memory and load-times so they re-arranged. Funnily enough, it seems that in the original layout, the start and end points didn't only point to each other, they were connected and the end could be seen from the start - which would, of course mean a large tax on memory, so they've changed it, possibly mucking up a few directions.

    Shrykull's map of the Lower City:

    (click image to enlarge)
    Shrykull's Notes:we have the immediate reference of the bridge coming from the Slums. Considering it a straight bridge does not seem to be of consequence. We actually have to the south, the bridge leading to the Wharves (see the model), so I guess this settles it right as it is.

    Shrykull's map of the Upper City:

    (click image to enlarge)
    Shrykull's notes:In the Upper City there is the Device building reference. Now, I cannot at the moment remember other relevant details, but, considering that in the model the is no city area to the right of the Device, would it make sense for the map to be rotated 90ª counter-clockwise?
    Baziel:The Upper City was another area that came with directional complications. The Device and area and what's behind it would suggest that it needs to be rotated 90 degrees anti-clockwise. In trying to match with the manual map however, I had two other possibilities for it - 1) the wide street leading away from the Device could be the one slightly wider street seen leading north/north-west away from the Device on the manual map, this would mean it leads towards the Sarafan Keep (hence big road and big gates) and an almost 90 clockwise rotation (behind the device would still be blank, but a blank over the Southern Sea near the Wharves). On the other hand - 2) dialogue, workers and other features suggest that the area with the bells and wide river crossing should be the river and bridge in the top-right of the Upper City on the manual map - towards the Industrial Quarter (only 'river' on the map and the best reason for Industrial Workers to be in the Upper City), but this really mucks up the directions for the rest of it, because that looks to be completely the wrong side of the Upper City in terms of real layout.

    Shrykull's combined Meridian layout map:

    (click image to enlarge)
    Notes: This map is presented so it matches the layout presented in the manual map. The Upper City is 'unrotated' (see upper city notes above)

    And just for confusion's sake, an interesting map(?) seen in-game:

    Notes: Very hard to tell but some layout points look like they might match with a focus more west than other maps.

    Defiance
    No Official maps again, but Tenaya created one by modifying and extending the SR2 one and including concept art and other locations:

    (click image to enlarge)
    Tenaya's Notes:I created this map using the in-game map from SR2 and official concept art. It highlights locations visited in Defiance, (all of which were familiar from previous games, with the exception of the Vampire Citadel) and notes other landmarks of interest within this region of Nosgoth, that existed during the time periods in which Defiance was set. The full extent of the subterranean ruins that the Elder inhabited is presently unknown, but the games indicated that they run as far east as the Sarafan Stronghold, as far west as the Ancient Vampire Citadel, as far south as the Ziegsturhl cemetery, and as far north as Termogent Forest during this 500-year period in Nosgoth’s history.

    Back on the Stronghold again, we have Shrykull's Sarafan Stronghold layout:

    (click image to enlarge)
    Which was built upon by Tenaya to give this version:

    (click image to enlarge)
    Again, there is also my own piece (which is somewhat rough and mistaken in places) - useful, if for no other reason than it contains the room names and labels from the official Prima guide.
    Notes: Obviously, the official room names from the Prima guide should probably take precedence over the labels on the other maps. The main problem here though is the layout itself though, which changes from the SR2 incarnation, but bears many similar features and rooms (some with the same names) suggesting the same areas. However, try as we might, we cannot get the Stronghold to match with its predecessor(s) - doors, walls and rooms change and move and a few directions don't match - most noticeably, the Cloister moves and the Tower is in the wrong direction to show the Pillars. (Notice also the area around the dungeon and relic room, where we've all come up with slightly different layouts) This effectively leaves us with two possible solutions to make the stronghold 'work':
    1)One solution is to discard the room names and treat them separate locations - effectively suggesting that the stronghold is comprised of two similar (largely symmetrical) 'wings' with SR2 on the west wing and Defiance on the east. This could solve the inconsistent directions; by rotating the maps, placing the tower at the centre and matching the Pillars direction - but would ultimately mean that the stronghold has two Sanctuary rooms, two Cloisters and two Chapter Houses (or three because the Circle's gathering room is effectively another chapter-house by definition), all of which appear virtually identical in terms of layout and are identically named.
    2)On the other hand, the somewhat pragmatic (and out-of -universe) solution is to say that the areas were intended to be the same as in SR2 but the levels were re-shuffled and redesigned during development. In the end the fact it doesn't match would have been considered a 'minor' (non-game-breaking) bug and would not have been worth the developers correcting – as has been hinted by developer comments before.

    Either way it looks like my articles on the recurring rooms of the Sanctuary, Chapter House and Cloister may need some reworking, or at least some extra notes ;-( and for anyone that's thinking it – the external view of the stronghold from Defiance Pillars area is this:

    (click image to enlarge)
    Which could work for either theory. Anyway, leaving the Stronghold behind....

    Next we have Shrykull's map of the Cemetery:

    (click image to enlarge)
    Shrykull's Notes: This one is interesting for only in Defiance did they start making levels diagonally as opposed to the standard north-south. Pretty neat level. Perhaps only that southwestern corridor felt a little stretched.
    Baziel: Obviously, very little directly matches with the Cemetery from BO1 though some buildings appear in similar places. Even Kain's Mausoleum seems very different, though perhaps sharing a similar aesthetic to its predecessor. An interesting note best seen from the Prima layouts is that the megalith structures (stonehenges) outside the Dark and Light forges are in the shape of their respective symbols.

    Shrykull's layout of the Defiance Pillars:

    (click image to enlarge)
    Notes: Once again the Pillars appear slightly differently but do not necessarily invalidate previous entrances (though SR2's battlements seem to have gone again). We've also got the directions to the Sarafan Stronghold matching and those to the Vamp Citadel matching the area where the Lake of Tears is, but the direction to Vorador's Mansion is clearly the wrong way. An interesting thing about the Cemetery entrance place is that although it is at the wrong side of the pillars, it is close to where the tributaries of the great southern lake are shown in BO1 maps and areas (which show it outside Ziegsturhl and the Cemetery) and I'd taken this as evidence that Raz followed the river along from the cemetery to the pillars.

    Next we have Vorador's Mansion with Shrykull's layout sketch:

    (click image to enlarge)
    and Tenaya improved this one as well with a two tier mansion layout:

    (click image to enlarge)

    (click image to enlarge)
    Notes: The level fits very well together, but does not seem to match up much with its BO1 predecessor, though candidates for reinterpreted areas include the Library, dining room/great hall and the entrance foyer (with Vorador statue/floor mural). Again the Prima guide gives different (presumably more accurate) room titles, with only “Library” and “Courtyard” on both - the rooms listed here as “Foyer”, “Stained Glass Hall”, “Gargoyle Fountain Room”, “Guest Suite/(s)”, “Living Room”, “Dining Room”, “Cellar”, “Greenhouse”, “Janos Tomb”, “Sewer”, “Catacombs” and “Vorador's Crypt” are listed in Prima as “Vestibule hallway”, “Grand Entry”, “Water Forge room”, “Upper level hallway/(Upper level gallery)”, “Descent to the Great Hall”, “Great Hall”. “Tower”, “Garden/Garden Path”, “Vorador's crypt/Janos's crypt”, “Cistern”, “Flooded Crypt” and “Crypt chapel” respectively.

    Combined
    Finally we have the combined treats. Tenaya's aforementioned Defiance map contains many or the location across the series. Along the same lines, we have Lucent's map of Nosgoth (already referenced as fitting Necronir's SR1 map):

    (click image to enlarge)
    created by combining the maps in BO1, BO2 and SR2.

    Shrykull has also been working at this, combining the layouts of the major areas in SR2, BO2 and Defiance with Lucent's map to create this fusion:

    (click image to enlarge)
    Shrykull's Notes (some duplication): The general note is that with much certainty the scale from the connecting areas from SR2 cannot be taken too seriously for it would seem the distances are shorted than they actually should be.
    The Cemetery and Vorador's Mansion were placed on their spot aligned with the Pillars. And due to the above point they, along with Meridian, are not as big as they should.
    Starting from the south, the Sarafan Stronghold, I always preferred to think it had a sort of symmetry. This way it is possible to align the map with the tower pointing in the direction of the Pillars, and getting two sanctuaries, a west and east one. Although it can be tempting to align the two sanctuaries as one, for the chapter house is on both to the right of the sanctuary, although the corridor turns on the opposite way, and this way the Oracle's caves are below the Southern Lake (if that makes any sense). But then why would the designers put the tower with the window pointing to the Pillars Exactly on the opposite direction?? Thus one can play around the position I chose and try figuring out how this much larger fortress can make sense.
    Moving north to the Pillars it was very interesting to analyse the result of the two superposed maps. Apparently it can be possible to have them simultaneously (obviously ignoring the accesses to the main area). It is funny to see how Raziel, coming from the Cemetery would arrive to the western most extreme of the area. The same on the path to Vorador's Mansion starting off on the opposite direction (not that the path couldn't do an 180º inversion just after that first turn lol)

    Baziel: As Shrykull has highlighted, some Defiance locations appear to be orientated diagonally. It's possible that they may have skipped us between levels to prevent the chronic obvious direction errors that would have popped up otherwise

    and an extra contribution by 'Demonic Thrall':

    (click image to enlarge)
    which combines the areas highlighted across the series.


    And that's about the shape of it. Feel free to discuss and if anyone can add their own observations or maps/layouts to this I'd welcome them. As I say, the unofficial nature of many of these maps prevents them from being directly up on the wiki, but referencing things from a thread like this would be useful ;-)

    ….Oh and after all that, there may be more maps treats on the way - as Shrykull is currently working on getting SR2 Model Ex extracts together to update his hand-drawn SR2 maps with extracted layouts. Enjoy!
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  2. #2
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    this makes me wish for an open world rpg set in nosgoth.
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  3. #3
    I really like this map:


    Any chance we see a larger version of this map, please?

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    Baz will know for sure, but as best I recall, that's an image we had to salvage. I think the original source was gone beforehand, so that might unfortunately be the largest remaining copy of it.
    "A return to Nosgoth is not necessarily always welcome: only the attainment of that final gnosis will satisfy us." – Sam Zucchi

  5. #5
    Dat map thread O.O There are maps I have never seen before,srsly 0_0.
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  6. #6
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    I remember reading this when it was posted but never commented…and I don’t know why, sorry! These maps are awesome – it’s good to see how everything fits together. Great job compiling them all into one handy thread

  7. #7
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    Sorry, might have slept in a bit today

    hmm yes, that map
    A user called Demonic Thrall had posted that version of it on the Nosgothic Realm forums, but wasn't too much of a regular poster.

    I have however done a bit of digging and found that it is indeed a modification of a map found elsewhere on the net at Czech site Nosgoth.wz.cz
    The full version, which is bigger and is minus the border and the yellow tint, looks like this:

    (click image to enlarge)
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  8. #8
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    Cool find! What a coincidence, I used to talk to the guy running that site Wonder if he knows about Nosgoth and stuff.

  9. #9

  10. #10
    Hey guys!

    Not sure if you have seen this map yet, I found it in the Cartographers Guild website using a technique that allows you to create textured maps that look almost like a satellite image, I really like the level of detail on it, specially in the mountains and even more in the Termogent Swamp area!


    (click image to enlarge)

    Give it a look and let me know what you think!

    Off topic: there is some great Westeros map made with the same technique here.
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  11. #11
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    Now that map really does look cool!

  12. #12
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ber View Post

    Give it a look and let me know what you think!
    I'm thinking this : pure epicness!

  14. #14
    oh, wow! the lok combined area maps and especially the detailed one are epic!
    Legacy of Kain: Legion - the Battle has been fought, but the War has just begun!

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Ber View Post
    Hey guys!

    Not sure if you have seen this map yet, I found it in the Cartographers Guild website using a technique that allows you to create textured maps that look almost like a satellite image, I really like the level of detail on it, specially in the mountains and even more in the Termogent Swamp area!


    (click image to enlarge)

    Give it a look and let me know what you think!

    Off topic: there is some great Westeros map made with the same technique here.
    This is great, thanks so much for sharing it! If only it also had the info we know from LoK:BO2...

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Monkeythumbz View Post
    This is great, thanks so much for sharing it! If only it also had the info we know from LoK:BO2...
    My pleasure! Yeah it is odd, the locations are missing but he included the Great Southern Sea and the south coast layout which pretty much were introduced in BO2.
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  17. #17
    it's funny, but on the in-game bo2 reconstructed map, could those 'towers' (one looking like it's crumbling, the other with a fish about to crash into it (both close to the nosgoth plaque) be the site/spots of the hylden city?
    because it never states or indicates which direction it lies... if that is the case thou, then the gateway really was closer to nosgoth then anyone thought....

    just a silly idea :P
    Legacy of Kain: Legion - the Battle has been fought, but the War has just begun!

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