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Thread: For a game that came out in 2003, Defiance is GORGEOUS!

  1. #1

    For a game that came out in 2003, Defiance is GORGEOUS!

    I'm planning on buying it on Steam soon, and (as I fold my laundry) I'm watching some gameplay footage on Youtube. My goodness, it's remarkable how differently Blood Omen 2 looks from Defiance which came out only a year later.

    I found Blood Omen 2 to be a beautiful game (in an HD re-release of a classic title sort of way), but the environments and characters and general look of the Defiance takes it to a whole other level. From what Ive seen, it looks like it could be a modern game.

    Now, with that said, how's the gameplay? Is it worth buying?

  2. #2
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    Get it!

    Honestly, it has its problems (poorly positioned camera angles and overly repetitive combat are common complaints), but for many Defiance was the 'return to form' after BO2 (and some would say SR2). It covers almost all the big answers and loose plot threads (I said almost) and is enjoyable as a gameplay experience.

    A lot of the gameplay and combat is a new system based on a something apparently inspired by (the original) Devil May Cry - described as 'the camera following the player on an elastic band'. The game is more combat focused than previous titles and has less puzzle elements - though the combat techniques have obviously been worked upon and are very fun and compliment the feeding balance and minor level-ups (ie you fight all enemies because, generally, you need to rather than just running to the next cutscene point)

    I wouldn't necessarily say that it compares to today's games, but I can see what you're getting at: it does look the part and is light years ahead of BO2. But if you haven't guessed by now, enjoyable as it is, BO2 is considered the weakest of the series - if you like that then the rest of the series is pretty much a given
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    Bare in mind that playing Defiance prior to other parts of the game will ruin chronological order.

    The series are heavily oriented on the story aspect and Defiance is the accumulation of previous knowledges throughout the series so missing out a bit would be fatal.

    BO:LOK
    LOK:SR
    LOK:SR2
    BO2
    LOK: DEF

    is the order. Happy playing!

  4. #4
    BUMP (forgive the new guy)

    I may be committing a capital LOK sin by saying this:

    But I found Defiance's story to be inmensely dull.

    Yes, many questions are answered, but the presentation is rather terrible, I feel that character interaction was severely lacking, and most of the cutscenes involved endless exposition.

    I finished BO2 and DEF, and while BO2 has plenty of problems, as do most LOK games, at least it's story isn't overly concerned with trying to answer questions, which is Defiance's biggest problem.

    Now, after this first post I sincerely hope I'm not slain by a serpent-shaped sword with a skull on the hilt in the middle of the night !

  5. #5
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    I think that the story is pretty much the best that there's in the gaming history. At least it's executed with such a quality eloquence and dialogue with so many great characters. It's beyond reason to find it dull IMO.

    I bet that you played both on the PC, pretty much the same like my fellow countrymen who dare not to play something beside PES/FIFA on a console.

    The thing is that the story is heavily oriented on the chronological factors. So it's imperative to play them chronologically.

    Bare in mind that LoK's not "a typical video-game" and you may not compare it to "something" that represents modern standards. It's an experience as a whole and all five parts of it should be played and beaten in order to get the story.

    Ofc, whether someone's able to grasp the story is another question but anyway it's very intelligent series that any fantasy enthusiast would like to follow.

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    I think I might get what Feliciano means. He's talking about Defiance itself, not the series. Defiance starts out pretty strong, with Kain going after Moebius and all, but after the Sarafan Stronghold, it kind of turns into just looking at murals and hearing Kain or Raziel talk about the murals, until finally we're done with the final Reaver Forge and Avernus is where the story really picks up again. It's probably because of budget reasons, but it could have been done in a more interesting way than showing a bunch of murals.

  7. #7
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    LoK are story driven games. BO2 is, at least among the fans, least favorite simply because it's not quite story driven. It's more like action-reaction and doesn't really make you to wonder like the rest of the games.

    Defiance is basically made to give many answers to the previous installments of the game and it's not like it lacks fighting in it, far from that.

    Also, I'm not very fond of people who beat two games in the series and then come to the forum to find those who share the opinion think that LoK games are overly bad (and was probably the reason to stop playing the rest?).

    They are what they are and an intelligent player will know how to take out the notes, lore etc out of it even if it's confusing (for some people, ofc). But that's the beauty of it. LoK doesn't need to have a boss fight in every game in the series. It doesn't have to follow a certain path of gameplay. It doesn't need to be "improved" in any way to allow quality gameplay and immersive story.

    It could have, it should have (nearly a decade after) is quite irrelevant story-wise. Texture-wise there can always be some improvements (like [mod]Hylden did, without venturing too much away from the original concept) and minor modifications. However I think that without original games I wouldn't even be here, now, and neither would the rest of the people who enjoyed both BO2 and Defiance. Two games that didn't follow the BO1 concept of Kains magic/fighting style. but nobody really cares since

    a) Games are playable
    b) Story is great

    Those who want to play will play, those who don't want to will find reasons not to.

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    I've been saying this for years, and I'll keep saying it. Legacy of Kain of course has an amazing setting and story, but the only games in the series that actually feel like they were completed were Blood Omen and Blood Omen 2, though Soul Reaver was also very good of course, though it was obvious that stuff was taken out of it (like the fact that you never fight Raziel's final brother). The series has consistently suffered from the fact that pretty much all of the games had a ton cut from it, Soul Reaver 2 being the worst in this regard. You can't just have a good story, you need to have good gameplay as well, and while SR2 had a good foundation, it suffered from the fact that it took away almost everything good from Soul Reaver, the exploration, interesting boss fights, optional upgrades, etc. Defiance as well had quite a bit cut from it.
    I will argue this for the rest of time. This series has never been able to be what it should have. So much potential just wasted because of budget reasons. And I don't see why we should just overlook obvious problems in the games just because we're fans.

  9. #9
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    But "what would've" been there is irrelevant due to a fact that it isn't. The key is to find the good aspects of the games and take out from them. The gameplay of the LoK/Bo games is most certainly not good, but then again there're dozens of games which are worse in that regard.
    Now, from the technical aspects SR 1 had no loading screen sequence like most of the games. It was flowing. Same goes for the OST, it just mix itself with a proper situation in-game. That's pretty cool no matter how you look at it
    Transitions between two worlds, puzzles etc - all of that is great.
    Sure, things are not how someone wanted them but that's not a reason to diminish the quality of the game or to judge it by the things which are not in the original release, non the less.

    Same like KotOR II that just recently got another 1/3 of the game because the ending felt so empty and vague. I played it 10 years ago and the characters were good, appropriate. I didn't like the HK robot there, however that's just because he was more epic in the 1st part of the game. but I won't say "Hey, this is wrong and this is bad" just because "it feels unfinished". And the great thing is that even with all the bad things it's still a tremendously good series and they are story oriented and they must be looked upon and reviewed from the story aspect.
    Exploration aspect in the LoK games was never really something thrilling for me, aside from BO1 where exploration was imperative. Games were pretty much linear and not in a bad way either.

    For an example, BO2 didn't feel like a LoK title at all, but that's no reason for me to say it's a bad game or that it "lacks LoK perfume" on itself.

    For me that's the beauty of it, LoK games are all different and they provide slightly different gameplay experience while providing a fantastic story. In fact I like that some things are not finished because that nurtures my imagination of "how it could've been". It's a nice mental decor to keep it hanging in mid-air since it's not important to the story.

    So as a fan I tend to like even the flaws that I personally find. And I will keep saying that the story is one of the best in the gaming universe

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Milky View Post
    Bare in mind that playing Defiance prior to other parts of the game will ruin chronological order.

    The series are heavily oriented on the story aspect and Defiance is the accumulation of previous knowledges throughout the series so missing out a bit would be fatal.

    BO:LOK
    LOK:SR
    LOK:SR2
    BO2
    LOK: DEF

    is the order. Happy playing!
    Honestly though, I never felt like BO2 was an official part of the story, more like a what-if scenario that only explains certain parts that happened in games before or after it. BO2 was also not-well liked because it wasn't up to par with the other games and I'm not talking about story-wise, I'm talking gameplay-wise as well. Like you said, it's more action-oriented, although I do remember clearly stealth being involved, especially with the powers you're given throughout the game to help you deal with that.

  11. #11
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    I agree completely.

    However many PC players had it as their first PC game that involved around 2GB HDD space. In my country it's highly regarded, which I find to be a shame. In fact, many people don't know that it's a part of game series.

  12. #12
    I remember being wowed by the Pillars location and such, but the Sarafan Stronghold was annoyingly twee in comparison to its depiction in Soul Reaver 2. Absolutely gorgeous and magisterial in that game.

  13. #13
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    I have completed the game in 2003. I have played a lot of brand new games yet none of them compared to the gaming experience brought by Defiance. The game play is impressive. Below is the summary:

    Raziel and Kain learn new combat techniques, including uppercuts, mid-air slashes, and firing orbs of telekinetic energy. Some techniques are shared by the two, others are unique to them, such as Kain's "Cadaverous Laceration". Raziel and Kain can also acquire various elemental powers that give them new abilities - the Flame Emblem lets Kain use his telekinesis to light torches while Raziel's Dark Reaver lets him turn invisible and pass certain obstacles and enemies without being noticed.
    Thank you for this thread, it made me realized that I miss the game and must play it one more time.

    ____________

    Brickell Locksmiths

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