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  1. #601
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    I question whether Sam is truly as helpless as people make her out to be. Of course she is terribly naive to trust Mathias to get kidnapped in the first place, but at one point in the game
    Humanity is not a species or a race, it is a STATE OF MIND.

  2. #602
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrimAquatic View Post
    In any media male character can do anything they want for whatever reason they fancy. They can climb the highest mountains, the can dive into the depths of the ocean, the can fly to the Moon, they can kill battalions of enemy soldiers, or go around the town hugging people. And they do that because they can, or because they are dying and want to do something meaningful, or because a hippo wearing tutu told them to. Only a portion of their endaveours happen because they want to prove themselves to their lady of choice.

    Women on the other hand don't have that luxury. Maybe I just read all the wrong books and watch all the wrong movies and TV Shows, but in my experience women always do stuff either because their loved ones are in danger, or because something threatens her child. And sometimes they do things solely to find a husband.
    I now understand better where you're coming from with this. Thanks for explaining it.

    If I understood correctly, you don't appreciate women's motives (like that of Lara helping Sam) always being reduced to that of a mother & child. *nods* I can see that. I'm just not so sure Hollywood allows men to freely do "anything they want for whatever reason they fancy" either, though. Men are always the soldiers, dying in numbers for country or cause. Or they are the lone wolf, and go on a rampage against huge injustice and (police) curruption, leaving 400-600 dead adversaries in their wake. Or they go vigilante when someone kidnapped their daughter. I mean, Hollywood is just what it is: a collector of platitudes, on an industrial scale. And dividing gender along stereotypical lines is as cheap and easy as it gets.

    Ellen Ripley is one. She once was a strong female character, but was narrowed down to a mother.
    Are you sure? In Alien 4 Ripley was technically a mother, but not overly protective of her young, I'd say. She ripped out the tongue of one of her children because "It was in my way." And the one who saw Ripley as her mother, well, she had him be 'sliced & diced' and pulled out of a cargohold window. If anything, I think the message in Alien 4 was: yes, Ripley is a mother, but don't count on any special favors from her.

    I understand your notion, though. I have a similar personal pet peeve with Hollywood too. Which is their insufferable intolerance (however cleverly veiled). Remember how Picard didn't like children at first? He couldn't stand Wesley Crusher (understable, btw; but I digress). And what happens? During the series Hollywood 'fixed' him to now be a child-loving 'white picket fence' kinda guy. I hate that. Hollywood is only provisionally tolerant -- the provision being that you are open to being 'cured.' In that vein I suppose I can see your beef with Hollywood and bisexuality too: on the surface you're allowed to different, as long as, deep down, the viewer understands she's really into men.

  3. #603
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    Quote Originally Posted by JRod108 View Post
    I question whether Sam is truly as helpless as people make her out to be. Of course she is terribly naive to trust Mathias to get kidnapped in the first place, but at one point in the game
    I don't think Sam was always completely helpless; but, at certain points, I feel she was *too* helpless, yes. Like I would have thought it awesome if, during the end boss-fight with Mathias, Sam had suddenly grabbed Lara's axe and planted it firmly in his head. Instead, she just stood there, glaring at Lara, with a "Please help me!" expression on her face! That scene could have been better, IMHO (and a bit more Sam-active, so to speak).

    After all, we all love Sam, don't we?! #TeamSam

  4. #604
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    Well, keep in mind that she was sort of occupied by Himiko trying to suck her soul out through her face. I'm not certain she would have been able to do anything in that scene in all fairness.

    My main gripe with her other than trusting a complete stranger in a disaster situation is my wondering at how she managed to lose her gun when Whitman took her. Really, Sam? Why did Lara even leave you with a weapon? However, I still like Sam regardless of her derp moments.
    Humanity is not a species or a race, it is a STATE OF MIND.

  5. #605
    Quote Originally Posted by digginglara View Post
    If I understood correctly, you don't appreciate women's motives (like that of Lara helping Sam) always being reduced to that of a mother & child. *nods* I can see that. I'm just not so sure Hollywood allows men to freely do "anything they want for whatever reason they fancy" either, though. Men are always the soldiers, dying in numbers for country or cause. Or they are the lone wolf, and go on a rampage against huge injustice and (police) curruption, leaving 400-600 dead adversaries in their wake. Or they go vigilante when someone kidnapped their daughter. I mean, Hollywood is just what it is: a collector of platitudes, on an industrial scale. And dividing gender along stereotypical lines is as cheap and easy as it gets.
    In Hollywood blockbusters yes, there is not much diversity in men's reasons to do what they are compelled to do by the plot. However, there are other studios and other filmmakers. They allow us to emphasize with homicidal maniacs, schizophrenics, pedophiles, junkies, cubicle drones, CEO's, angels - all sorts of crazy and disturbed people. Sometimes they put women in those roles, but in my opinion too seldom.

    Quote Originally Posted by digginglara View Post
    Are you sure? In Alien 4 Ripley was technically a mother, but not overly protective of her young, I'd say. She ripped out the tongue of one of her children because "It was in my way." And the one who saw Ripley as her mother, well, she had him be 'sliced & diced' and pulled out of a cargohold window. If anything, I think the message in Alien 4 was: yes, Ripley is a mother, but don't count on any special favors from her.
    No, I'm not sure. I don't really remember the movie all that much. I just know that they made her a mother for no apparent reason. Same happened with Sarah Connor who in the second movie sort of receded into the background.

    Quote Originally Posted by digginglara View Post
    I understand your notion, though. I have a similar personal pet peeve with Hollywood too. Which is their insufferable intolerance (however cleverly veiled). Remember how Picard didn't like children at first? He couldn't stand Wesley Crusher (understable, btw; but I digress). And what happens? During the series Hollywood 'fixed' him to now be a child-loving 'white picket fence' kinda guy. I hate that. Hollywood is only provisionally tolerant -- the provision being that you are open to being 'cured.' In that vein I suppose I can see your beef with Hollywood and bisexuality too: on the surface you're allowed to different, as long as, deep down, the viewer understands she's really into men.
    Exactly. Any customer can have a car painted any colour that he wants so long as it is black.

  6. #606
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    Quote Originally Posted by JRod108 View Post
    Well, keep in mind that she was sort of occupied by Himiko trying to suck her soul out through her face. I'm not certain she would have been able to do anything in that scene in all fairness.
    I've been trying to remember whether that soul-sucking had already been interrupted or not; I just recall me seeing Sam just standing there, and thinking: "Oh Sam, c'mon, do something!"

    My main gripe with her other than trusting a complete stranger in a disaster situation is my wondering at how she managed to lose her gun when Whitman took her. Really, Sam? Why did Lara even leave you with a weapon? However, I still like Sam regardless of her derp moments.
    Like the total stranger saying "Shall I tend to your leg?" (and her agreeing), Sam probably just let Whitman have it when he said: "Shall I hold on to it for you, for a bit?"

    Sam still totally rocks, though -- full 'survival' material or no.

  7. #607
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    Quote Originally Posted by digginglara View Post
    I've been trying to remember whether that soul-sucking had already been interrupted or not; I just recall me seeing Sam just standing there, and thinking: "Oh Sam, c'mon, do something!"


    Put on about 4:00 or so. The soul sucking was still going on.

    Like the total stranger saying "Shall I tend to your leg?" (and her agreeing), Sam probably just let Whitman have it when he said: "Shall I hold on to it for you, for a bit?"

    Sam still totally rocks, though -- full 'survival' material or no.
    Bah, it would not surprise me if she really did just simply hand the gun over. Sam, you really need to take classes on Stranger Danger and How to Spot Slimely Bastards.
    Humanity is not a species or a race, it is a STATE OF MIND.

  8. #608
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    Quote Originally Posted by JRod108 View Post

    Put on about 4:00 or so. The soul sucking was still going on.
    Yup, soul sucking was still ongoing. I stand corrected. And I think we can agree on one's soul being sucked being a valid reason for temporary diminshed capability.

  9. #609
    Quote Originally Posted by gitb90 View Post
    The ship names on tumblr are hilariously awful.
    Haha, but that's the best part!

    Quote Originally Posted by JRod108 View Post
    I question whether Sam is truly as helpless as people make her out to be. Of course she is terribly naive to trust Mathias to get kidnapped in the first place, but at one point in the game
    Mm, I feel like some people tend to be too hard on Sam. As far as I know, she doesn't have any skills in archery, rock climbing, self-defense, and firearms etc. Keep in mind that she washed up on the shore alone. She wasn't shown with the Reyes and the others when Lara washes up on shore. After Lara is captured in the beginning, we also don't know how long Sam had been searching for the others by herself. As for Mathias, it was naive of her to trust him, but given the situation, I'd probably do the same. She was alone, lost, probably terrified, and had a foot injury (I don't know how bad the wound was) when Mathias found her. I'd assume she was wary at first, but after he helped to patch up her foot, and currently being the only other human around, I can understand her trusting him.

    We also don't know anything about what she endured while captive the first time. As scary as Lara's experience had to be for her, at least she had radio contact with Roth and Alex, and she was free to move across the island as she saw fit. Sam was held hostage, and probably guarded by several Solarii. She does manage to steal a radio of one of the guards to get in contact with Lara. I'm also sure that after they tried to burn her alive, and watched them beat the crap out of the Lara, that she was even more terrified of them.

    I'm not saying there wasn't more that she could have tried to do, but at the same time I don't find her actions unrealistic.


    Quote Originally Posted by digginglara View Post
    After all, we all love Sam, don't we?! #TeamSam
    Haha, I love you.

    Quote Originally Posted by digginglara View Post
    Sam probably just let Whitman have it when he said: "Shall I hold on to it for you, for a bit?"
    Yeah... not one of Sam's better moments.

    I'm glad several of you like Sam. I feel like she gets more hate than lovin from fans of the game. #TeamSam!
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  10. #610
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kipp View Post
    Haha, but that's the best part!



    Mm, I feel like some people tend to be too hard on Sam. As far as I know, she doesn't have any skills in archery, rock climbing, self-defense, and firearms etc. Keep in mind that she washed up on the shore alone. She wasn't shown with the Reyes and the others when Lara washes up on shore. After Lara is captured in the beginning, we also don't know how long Sam had been searching for the others by herself. As for Mathias, it was naive of her to trust him, but given the situation, I'd probably do the same. She was alone, lost, probably terrified, and had a foot injury (I don't know how bad the wound was) when Mathias found her. I'd assume she was wary at first, but after he helped to patch up her foot, and currently being the only other human around, I can understand her trusting him.

    We also don't know anything about what she endured while captive the first time. As scary as Lara's experience had to be for her, at least she had radio contact with Roth and Alex, and she was free to move across the island as she saw fit. Sam was held hostage, and probably guarded by several Solarii. She does manage to steal a radio of one of the guards to get in contact with Lara. I'm also sure that after they tried to burn her alive, and watched them beat the crap out of the Lara, that she was even more terrified of them.

    I'm not saying there wasn't more that she could have tried to do, but at the same time I don't find her actions unrealistic.

    I'm glad several of you like Sam. I feel like she gets more hate than lovin from fans of the game. #TeamSam!

    true. she sure looked relaxed and happy after lara found her. but she also dint really say that she was scared at the beginning when she washed up. just happy to have someone around. later on its pretty obvious that she is freaked out what happened later on.

    ok, doenst look to me that people really hate her, but it is a bit hard to feel the same way for sam then lara. her character is never really explained well that we should really care too much for her. this should have been better explained in the game, not just laras word that sam is her best friend.
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  11. #611
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metalrocks View Post
    ok, doenst look to me that people really hate her, but it is a bit hard to feel the same way for sam then lara. her character is never really explained well that we should really care too much for her. this should have been better explained in the game, not just laras word that sam is her best friend.
    Yes, I'd hate to think there be people who actually hate Sam. That would be sad. Haven't seen much of that, though, fortunately.

    Actually, I've always tried to care for Sam. Notice how I said 'tried.' Not that I utterly failed or something, but throughout the game I was near desperately looking for ways to bond with Sam some more, but the moments where this was actually possible were far and few between. Hence I liked that video blog, as it shows Sam in her most natural state, as it were: as being cute and good friends with Lara.

    #TeamSam, ftw!

  12. #612
    I still don't trust her as far as I could throw her.
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  13. #613
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrCroft View Post
    I still don't trust her as far as I could throw her.
    Who? Sam?! :shocked:

    What's not to trust about Sam? If you were talking about Whitman, yeah, I could see that apply. But.... Sam?!?

  14. #614
    Quote Originally Posted by Metalrocks View Post
    ok, doenst look to me that people really hate her, but it is a bit hard to feel the same way for sam then lara. her character is never really explained well that we should really care too much for her. this should have been better explained in the game, not just laras word that sam is her best friend.
    Perhaps I should have said "dislike" instead of "hate". Speaking of which, that's perfectly fine if people don't like Sam. I certainly won't be offended. I mean it's true that she's not fleshed out all that much in the game. We have profiles about her through various outlets that add a more detailed look about who she is, and her connection with Lara, but outside of that, all we really know is that she's Lara's best friend. I'm hoping that she'll be brought back in future games, and that we're given more of a chance to learn more about her character.

    Quote Originally Posted by digginglara View Post
    Actually, I've always tried to care for Sam. Notice how I said 'tried.' Not that I utterly failed or something, but throughout the game I was near desperately looking for ways to bond with Sam some more, but the moments where this was actually possible were far and few between. Hence I liked that video blog, as it shows Sam in her most natural state, as it were: as being cute and good friends with Lara.
    Mm, I understand. There definitely could have been much more to Sam, and much more of her. Being kidnapped for large junks of the game didn't do homegirl any favors. I also agree about the videos on her camera. I really enjoyed watching them.



    Moments like the above are one of the reasons that I really like Sam. (No, this isn't one of those "Omg, they're holding hands! Totally gay!" bits. ) But in that scene, Lara isn't even paying attention to Sam. She's having a serious conversation with Jonah and Alex, and Sam is just there comforting her. I loved it.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrCroft View Post
    I still don't trust her as far as I could throw her.
    Oh my! Why is it that you don't trust Sam? I'm genuinely curious about this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kipp View Post



    Moments like the above are one of the reasons that I really like Sam. (No, this isn't one of those "Omg, they're holding hands! Totally gay!" bits. ) But in that scene, Lara isn't even paying attention to Sam. She's having a serious conversation with Jonah and Alex, and Sam is just there comforting her. I loved it.
    Good catch! And it illustrates wonderfully how their relationship is just one of mutual nurturing. Lara doesn't pull back her hand, thinking: "OMG! she's holding hands! Totally gay!" Nor does she react to it in a manner one would to a flirtation, like "Mmm, she's holding hands! Totally gay!... YAY!!" Instead she just accepts it for what it is: tender support, which comes natural between girlfriends that are so close.

  16. #616
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kipp View Post
    Oh my! Why is it that you don't trust Sam? I'm genuinely curious about this.
    She's evil. The writers wanted you to fall in love with Sam, so that in the next game they can make a huge plot twist and turn her into another Natla.



    mwuahahaha

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  17. #617
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    Quote Originally Posted by Driber View Post
    She's evil. The writers want you to fall in love with Sam, so that in the next game they can make a huge plot twist and turn her into another Natla.



    mwuahahaha
    Gurl, You just spoiled TR2.

  18. #618
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    Quote Originally Posted by Driber View Post
    She's evil. The writers wanted you to fall in love with Sam, so that in the next game they can make a huge plot twist and turn her into another Natla.



    mwuahahaha
    you in a good mood today, ya even posting gifs! O:

  19. #619
    Quote Originally Posted by digginglara View Post
    Good catch! And it illustrates wonderfully how their relationship is just one of mutual nurturing. Lara doesn't pull back her hand, thinking: "OMG! she's holding hands! Totally gay!" Nor does she react to it in a manner one would to a flirtation, like "Mmm, she's holding hands! Totally gay!... YAY!!" Instead she just accepts it for what it is: tender support, which comes natural between girlfriends that are so close.
    Or maybe, I know that it's totally far fetched, but just bear with me for a minute. Maybe Lara is so preoccupied with grieving she can't think about anything gay?

  20. #620
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kipp View Post
    Haha, but that's the best part!



    Mm, I feel like some people tend to be too hard on Sam. As far as I know, she doesn't have any skills in archery, rock climbing, self-defense, and firearms etc. Keep in mind that she washed up on the shore alone. She wasn't shown with the Reyes and the others when Lara washes up on shore. After Lara is captured in the beginning, we also don't know how long Sam had been searching for the others by herself. As for Mathias, it was naive of her to trust him, but given the situation, I'd probably do the same. She was alone, lost, probably terrified, and had a foot injury (I don't know how bad the wound was) when Mathias found her. I'd assume she was wary at first, but after he helped to patch up her foot, and currently being the only other human around, I can understand her trusting him.

    We also don't know anything about what she endured while captive the first time. As scary as Lara's experience had to be for her, at least she had radio contact with Roth and Alex, and she was free to move across the island as she saw fit. Sam was held hostage, and probably guarded by several Solarii. She does manage to steal a radio of one of the guards to get in contact with Lara. I'm also sure that after they tried to burn her alive, and watched them beat the crap out of the Lara, that she was even more terrified of them.

    I'm not saying there wasn't more that she could have tried to do, but at the same time I don't find her actions unrealistic.
    I don't really find most of her reactions unrealistic either. Even her brain farts, as much as they irritated me at times. As someone pointed out, Sam did not have any skills whatsoever to help her in this situation unlike Lara who had previously learned some things from Roth. I have no doubt that Sam suffered some trauma from her experiences of being held hostage. It's likely that even if the Solarii didn't touch her, they were probably crude or cruel towards her if not physically then mentally given that she's one of the few women that come to this island filled with psychotic men.

    The little things made me like Sam, such as her diaries and later body language when comforting Lara. In the end, I looked at her with some fondness rather than the typical irritation I have with most damsels.
    Humanity is not a species or a race, it is a STATE OF MIND.

  21. #621
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    Quote Originally Posted by GUMI View Post
    Gurl, You just spoiled TR2.
    She kills a dragon. The end.

    Quote Originally Posted by SpringAwaken View Post
    you in a good mood today, ya even posting gifs! O:
    Where?

    Quote Originally Posted by GrimAquatic View Post
    Or maybe, I know that it's totally far fetched, but just bear with me for a minute. Maybe Lara is so preoccupied with grieving she can't think about anything gay?
    Exactly what I was thinking.

    Hell, it could even have been Grim holding Lara's hand and she wouldn't notice

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  22. #622
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    Quote Originally Posted by Driber View Post
    Where?
    The thread about the AI in animals c:

    Quote Originally Posted by Driber View Post
    Hell, it could even have been Grim holding Lara's hand and she wouldn't notice
    I lold so hard

  23. #623
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpringAwaken View Post
    The thread about the AI in animals c:
    You mean the pun owl? That wasn't a GIF

    Anyway - yeah, I'm in a good mood. I mostly am

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  24. #624
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    Quote Originally Posted by Driber View Post
    You mean the pun owl? That wasn't a GIF

    Anyway - yeah, I'm in a good mood. I mostly am
    Nope the

  25. #625
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrimAquatic View Post
    Or maybe, I know that it's totally far fetched, but just bear with me for a minute. Maybe Lara is so preoccupied with grieving she can't think about anything gay?
    The evidence so far shows nothing to indicate the presence of a gay relationship between them. In fact, the game continually tries to show us no gay relationship exists between them, like in this wee movie (or Sam's diary, with her being interested in cute boys).

    Now, every absense of a sign could itself be interpreted as one nonetheless (like Lara ignoring possible gay avances by Sam here). But that's like me praying: "Oh please. Gawd, let us have TR10; and give me a sign that you will... even if the sign is no-sign!" But, yeah, I'm not going with that.

    I'm not opposed to them being gay, btw; but everything I've seen so far suggests to me that they're not.

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