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Thread: And again, a new rumour...

  1. #126
    Love sees no color...

    xD

  2. #127
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    If Raziel was red, then the Ancient Vampires would have turned out to be red. Raziel's color obviously came first. They probably just made him blue because they liked how it looked, but it also nicely worked with his blue blood which was taken over from Blood Omen's blood types.

  3. #128
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    He's blue due to the Spectral Realm, in which everything is in the blue-to-green-to-violette pallet. When he manifests in the Material Realm, his color is what he thinks he looks like, which is what it was in the Spectral Realm. That aspect doesn't lessen the horror of his being any, though perhaps they went too blue with him in SR2 and he became a little less than believable. Defiance's color shift was back to something more like what he should have been ... though his body type was far too cartoony (yet, it fixed some points, like his ribcage and the clan cape without the unused pattern on the back of it that SR1 and 2's ingame models kept).

  4. #129
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    well, if we were realistic, his body would be grey or black, given how he was completely scorched by being thrown in the Lake of the Dead.

    in fact, in the material realm, he probably SHOULD be grey. the only reaosn he is blue, is because, like the Hylden said, Spectral realm.

    I have no problem with a new aesthetic, and SR1, being the most "open" of the LoK games (except Bo1 pre-Battle of last Stand), could potentially use more optional content (like expanding human city, or the Turelim grounds), as long as these are
    a) optional
    b ) DO NOT DETRACT FROM, OR ALTER THE STORY.

    this isn't just another "franchise". this is LoK. Story IS the sacred cow here. Having not played Metal Gear Solid, this is, imho, the deepest, and best story ever told in gaming. messing with it IS sacrilege, as far as I'm concerned.

    so i'm wary. though I'd love to see another LoK going back to more "open-world" roots of the series.

  5. #130
    Even as a *very* long-term fan of the Metal Gear Solid series and its depth of characters and writing, I would still say LoK/SR's storyline(s) are more cerebral and complex than MGS's are... they certainly make you think and work things our for yourself more; and the main characters' motivations more interesting and better fleshed out in LoK.

    I think Raziel's colour and the Ancients' colour was coincidence. They saw him in the timestream and assumed he was their hero, but the Ancients came first, not Raziel...

    I prefer the way he looked in SR1 which was more of a greyish-purplish in the material realm, than a bright colour, but I think the colours used in SR1 were more atmospheric altogether than the sequels, really. Sometimes less is more. Like TH said, Raziel isn't really there, as a wraith, so his manifestation must be something close to what he was near the end of his existence before he was 'spared total dissolution' and he wills himself to represent the last thing he remembers or imagines? He could have willed himself to be as he was at the height of his evolution, but I guess after 500 years or whichever it was of constant physical torture, he'd probably have difficulty with that.

  6. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Zulgbrtzchllha View Post
    If Raziel was red, then the Ancient Vampires would have turned out to be red. Raziel's color obviously came first. They probably just made him blue because they liked how it looked, but it also nicely worked with his blue blood which was taken over from Blood Omen's blood types.
    Quote Originally Posted by Inquisitor Lexy View Post
    <snip>
    I think Raziel's colour and the Ancients' colour was coincidence. They saw him in the timestream and assumed he was their hero, but the Ancients came first, not Raziel...
    <snip>
    I think they were commenting about the order in which they were designed, not in the history of Nosgoth, lol. They made the ancient vampires blue so that they matched Raziel, and everyone could mistake him as one of them.

    I like the character concepts in which he appears as a deathly, ashy bluish-grey. I just think they over-saturated him when the 3d artists made his textures. :-D It's a design choice.
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  7. #132
    <_< Well, yeah... c'mon 10.24 a.m. is early for me :P

  8. #133
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    I think raz turned blue because he was a revenge avatar sent back into the world by Nosgoth's 'god' when he first appeared to us, and blue is the traditional color for that.

    After SR2 my favorite theory was that Raziel's blue bod was going to time travel way back in history to become the very first ancient. That would have been really cool. Being the founder of the ancients would have ensured all the other anceints knew him as a hero figure...... as THE vampire hero, even. Which would explain why his pic is on all the murals. Eh. But he would have had to find a way to stop being a wraith and come alive again first, or else the ancients would have all been wraiths. Hey, that's do-able though if you've got more artifacts like the heart of darkness sitting around, which Nosgoth no doubt does. Eh.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zulgbrtzchllha View Post
    his blue blood which was taken over from Blood Omen's blood types.
    Hey that's right there were those mysterious guys with blue blood you fought while dimension surfing though Avernus cathedral's many planar portals. They were like ghosts or angels defending the reaver or something, and there was this unnatural looking rain (holy?) coming down during that episode. I wonder if there's some new spin we could put on that. So if and when those blue blood blokes pop up in future games there could be a whole new context for why they were watching over the blade and whether they're happy with how Kain's been using it.

  9. #134
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    You mean in the assent to "Heaven" in Avernus to grab up the Soul Reaver. Those guys look to have the same armor as the animated Sarafan knight armor in Malek's Bastion. It's possible maybe he was charged by the Circle to protect that section of Avernus with his animated minions. There's no rain falling there, so I don't know what you mean by that. Perhaps you're thinking of the spears that are shot out of the sides of the walls at Kain as he traverses that long climbing stair/pathway.

    Otherwise, Zurg meant ghosts in Blood Omen 1. Like those animated armors, which were animated with the spirits of the warriors (so, they're basically ghosts possessing suits of armor), all ghosts in Blood Omen 1 had blue blood and are the only thing that does. Just kill any human, for instance, inside of a building, leave and come back, and you'll see their spirit. If you "kill" them again, they bleed blue blood. If Kain drinks from them, he fills his magic meter with energy, instead of his blood meter.

    Anyway, the fact that Raziel, a wraith, also is not only blue, but bleeds blue stuff and not blood, is all in keeping with the spirits of Nosgoth, harkening back to Blood Omen 1.

  10. #135
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    consistency.... it's a wonderful thing.

    re: Avennus--on the original Silicon Knoghts website for "the Story" of BO1, the part relevant to avernuss states that he had to "Ascend to heaven to gain the Soul Reaver, and descend to Hell to find the Wraith armour". Since Sarafan of Janos' time (the-crusade-that-ended-with-his-death-time, I mean) were viewed as "holy", it makes sense their ghosts were tasked with protecting "Heaven"

    oh, and Wraith Armour sucked. Chaos was soooo much better.

  11. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by kud13 View Post
    oh, and Wraith Armour sucked. Chaos was soooo much better.

  12. #137
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    It did rain there! That's why I remember it raining. Heaven has weather systems too apparently. Perhaps timed like the moon doors were.

    Hey, if those were Sarafan ghosts, maybe that semi-solves the mystery of why Moebius would allow the sword to be placed there. It was still under the watchful eye of his own faction, sort of almost in a treasure vault of some sort. What's the safest vault a sorcerer could conjure? One that stored things in an extra-dimensional space!

    Chaos looked like some kind of Las Vegas stage show costume, the armor equivalent of those big sparkling virgin Mary paintings that cover the entire hood of some lowriders. Wraith armor was smooth and classy, but a couple times I replaced it with Chaos to get better results against the Nemesis. Plus with wraith it's like "oops, there goes all the magic!" As if there's a hole in the pocket where the mana was stored.

  13. #138
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    Watch at the 6:30 mark. That's where Kain enters "Heaven." No rain:



    I know Nosgoth has changing weather. However, in all of the times I've played through Avernus, I've never seen weather in either the Heaven or Hell sections. They're both just dungeons and no dungeon level has weather in it.


    I totally agree that the Wraith Armor was basically useless and that Chaos Armor is where it's at. If I ever get the other works I've been haggling with done, I've been thinking of doing Kain from BO2 in all of his armors. I'd love to paint him with Chaos Armor on

  14. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Hylden View Post
    "Heaven." No rain
    All that means is I had a deeply rewarding special LOK experience that you missed out on.

    Also, I feel I should say reboot just because nobody's said it yet today.

  15. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSquid View Post
    All that means is I had a deeply rewarding special LOK experience that you missed out on.
    I don't buy that one for a second
    Simply put - The "Stairway to Heaven" section is an Indoor area/dungeon - It's not subject to the Weather effects of the Outdoor Map areas.
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  16. #141
    I'm not convinced that TheSquid's memory is failing. The last time I played through Avernus Cathedral I was really expecting to see fire 'rain' in the heavenly area. It didn't happen, though.

    I had an image on an old version of my Avernus Cathedral page which appeared to show it happening, but I can only guess that's it's time sensitive, as TheSquid said, if it happens at all in the released game. I have no idea where I got that image from originally - whether I took it myself, or it came from screenshots on a game review website. I don't recall the fire shown being part of the standard hazards in that area. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

    There's a reference in the Blood Omen dialogue on Nosgothic Realm:
    Seeing the magic shell of Dark Eden:
    Kain VO
    Magic seethed and shifted. I watched the dome of energy as it expanded, absorbing and recreating, consuming life and leaving behind only a twisted parody.

    Encountering precipitation that has been warped by Circle magic:
    From the heavens, the tears of angels danced around me in a frenzy of fire.
    This is in the Dark Eden section, but couldn't Kain's comments about the weather sometimes be delayed in the game depending on when he first encountered them?

    Long story short, we should all replay Blood Omen ASAP and try to trigger this effect. Actually, we should just replay Blood Omen again anyway!
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  17. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Ardeth Silvereni View Post
    I'm not convinced that TheSquid's memory is failing. The last time I played through Avernus Cathedral I was really expecting to see fire 'rain' in the heavenly area. It didn't happen, though.

    I had an image on an old version of my Avernus Cathedral page which appeared to show it happening, but I can only guess that's it's time sensitive, as TheSquid said, if it happens at all in the released game. I have no idea where I got that image from originally - whether I took it myself, or it came from screenshots on a game review website. I don't recall the fire shown being part of the standard hazards in that area. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

    There's a reference in the Blood Omen dialogue on Nosgothic Realm:This is in the Dark Eden section, but couldn't Kain's comments about the weather sometimes be delayed in the game depending on when he first encountered them?

    Long story short, we should all replay Blood Omen ASAP and try to trigger this effect. Actually, we should just replay Blood Omen again anyway!
    Ardeth it happens, happened to me once or twice but yeah, fire does rain in the "Heaven" section of Avernus.


  18. #143
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    Well, I'll be a Demon's uncle (heh)... I swear, Blood Omen 1 is the game with secrets that just keep on giving ... slowly but surely. Like that pirate ship that was found. I can just imagine that it's still got more locked up inside of it, just waiting to be discovered

    Quote Originally Posted by Ardeth Silvereni View Post

    Long story short, we should all replay Blood Omen ASAP and try to trigger this effect. Actually, we should just replay Blood Omen again anyway!
    I second that emotion! Thanks for keeping that archive so we have the pictorial evidence. I almost wish it would always happen in the Heaven section now. I think it goes well with the fire and brimstone type repercussions of a blasphemous creature like Kain making his way up to heaven to steal the Soul Reaver. It's like the fires of god raining down to stop him, which certainly would go well as yet another reminder that Kain is forsaken by all, either being used by all, or set upon by all in the world to fail.


    Congratulations on your memory, Squid, sparking us to the truth. I had to doubt it, given I've never experienced something like that.

  19. #144
    never seen fire rain before either
    I think I will replay it together with SR once a SR reboot is confirmed

  20. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bazielim View Post

    .
    It's now gotten to the point where I could tell you guys that your pants were on fire and even though you felt yourselves burning you still wouldn't accept that it was happening because I was the one who'd informed you about it.



  21. #146
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    you'll get no argument from me - yes, had anyone but the almighty speculator squid have posted this I might have believed or at least looked for how this had happened, rather than seeing it as an obvious memory error.(sorry but you do 'make stuff up' a lot, even when there's official info) . I appear to stand corrected.
    Gotta admit, I've replayed BO1 many times and never found any rain (or any other outdoor effects) in any indoor areas, so I'd feel a lot more comfortable with it when we have a better look at it. Perhaps the Blood Omnicide team could aid us? They've practically pulled BO1's code apart to get to rebuild it, so if it happens in the game, they should be able to tell us most about it.
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  22. #147
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    That's what I was thinking, the Blood Omnicide team has probably looked at that game more than anyone else. I'm really looking forward to whatever else they might find. Actually, I was going to suggest asking them about that fire rain until I got to the parts in this topic where we found out what happened. I've never seen it myself either, but I wasn't going to just dismiss the idea. It's always possible that it could have been a bg after all, but it turns out that it was intentionally put it.

  23. #148
    does anyone know btw whether the Omnicide team will add certain areas, such as the pirate ship? Or will they keep it close to the original?

  24. #149
    FWIW, my experience is that the "rain of fire" effect is random. I believe the first time I played through the game (around 2001), it happened when I got to Dark Eden, but I've seen it happen in the "Heaven" section of Avernus and IIRC after exiting Kain's mausoleum for the first time as well.
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  25. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by blincoln View Post
    FWIW, my experience is that the "rain of fire" effect is random. I believe the first time I played through the game (around 2001), it happened when I got to Dark Eden, but I've seen it happen in the "Heaven" section of Avernus and IIRC after exiting Kain's mausoleum for the first time as well.
    I've just managed to replicate the effect in Avernus. I had to hang around outside the front of Avernus Cathedral until a rainstorm occurred, then bolted through the Cathedral and into 'Heaven' (I'd already cleared the way there before I started to wait). I got the "tears of angels" quote as I entered and the fire rain was already falling. I guess in the playthrough my savegame was from, I'd not seen any fire rain previously.

    The clue to triggering the effect was realising that 'Heaven' is actually outside (Kain can assume Bat Form whilst there). Prima's Guide is incorrect in marking it 'Indoor'. It only rains there when it's raining elsewhere in Nosgoth. I guess the random element is that there's no schedule - that I could determine - for when a rainstorm will happen. It's not as reliable as waiting for a full moon.

    I can understand fire rain happening in 'Heaven' and at Dark Eden if a rainstorm occurs while you're there, because they are warped places. We know Dark Eden was a twisted form of nature, what with that dome of sorcery caused by the three Guardians. Not sure why it would happen outside Kain's mausoleum - I only recall regular rain there, but I'll take blincoln's word for it.
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