Thread: Choking Haze + Dominate Mind = OP (Balance Suggestions)

Choking Haze + Dominate Mind = OP (Balance Suggestions)

  1. #1

    Choking Haze + Dominate Mind = OP (Balance Suggestions)

    The Mechanics of the Deceiver skill "Dominate Mind" work as follows.

    You charge it up like pounce and then you cast it on the enemy and you can control the Human and make them run around

    The Duration of the Mind Control is 6s and the damage is 50 a second

    The "Con" of this skill is that the "Dominate Mind" gets broken if another vampire Melee attacks the dominated target.

    Seems pretty balanced with low damage and a good "CC Break" mechanic for the humans right?

    WRONG.

    Where this skills gets OP is when paired with other Vampire skills, mainly Choking Haze (Reaver)

    So the combo is the deceiver dominates a target and moves them / make them stand in the Reaver poison AoE Choking Haze.

    Choking Haze tool tip reads

    "Area Damage = 90-180 a second. 7s Duration"

    Seems pretty balanced since the Dominate Mind skill will CC Break when I take damage from another Vampire right?

    WRONG.

    The Dominate ONLY breaks on Melee attacks and NOT AoE Damage.

    Its a pretty unfair combo that a pre made group can use against pugs. 1 Choking Haze Bomb + 1 Dominate Mind can almost kill you at full hp (it might actually kill you if you time it right)

    The only "downside" to this combo is that the Deceiver can be killed pretty easily while mind controlling since they are standing still and in sight of the target

    BUT

    This is easily overcome by the pre made vs the PUG group for a few reasons

    1. Its PUGS and the chances are no calls are being made inside in game voice chat and / or the PUGS won't notice their teammate getting Dominated.

    2.Even if the PUGS see the Deceiver and try to help their teammate out, they will be getting attacked by the other 3 vampires. The Reaver will throw is Choking Haze and then go into the fight along with the other 2 Vampires.

    So they will HAVE to change targets from the Deceiver otherwise the other 3 Vampires will wipe them all and even if they start winning the 3v3 fight the Deceiver will join the fight after 6s once his Dominate ends.

    So my suggestion is adding a Maximum Damage Cap to the Dominate Mind Skill, the skill itself does 300 Damage over the 6 seconds so I think a cap of 600-650 damage would still make it viable but not a death sentence to pugs.

    Just a thought and a suggestion. Please share your suggestions and concerns on this skill and this "strategy"

    also inb4 "lol OP is mad" Yes I have been killed by this a few times and in turn I have ran this "strategy" with my pre made groups.

    I'm just trying to help the game be balanced and enjoyable for the whole community

    TL;DR Dominate Mind doesn't break on AoE damage and I think it should have a Damage cap of 600-650 Damage

  2. #2
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    Originally Posted by Tripleblack
    TL;DR Dominate Mind doesn't break on AoE damage and I think it should have a Damage cap of 600-650 Damage
    Ahahaha first I thought you propose to nerf DM. But you actually propose to buff it??!
    Because if it get 600 dmg cap then other vampires will get an opportunity to even hit once or twice DM'ed human before stunning it or killing it. This scenario is far more worse then just dying in CH AoE or getting shockwaved from roofs by another tyrant (my fav) while under DM. Believe me.
    Last edited by Prime_Abstergo; 8th May 2014 at 09:27.
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  3. #3
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    Erm, I'm not sure the OP wants the mind control to change such that it doesn't break any more if the human is melee attacked. As said, I think the proposed damage cap is only supposed to apply to AoE skills, and is thus a nerf.
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  4. #4
    Originally Posted by Lord_Aevum
    Erm, I'm not sure the OP wants the mind control to change such that it doesn't break any more if the human is melee attacked. As said, I think the proposed damage cap is only supposed to apply to AoE skills, and is thus a nerf.

    Yes this^

    Sorry I should have been a bit more clear

  5. #5
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    Okay, melee factor aside..
    Originally Posted by Lord_Aevum
    Erm, I'm not sure the OP wants the mind control to change such that it doesn't break any more if the human is melee attacked. As said, I think the proposed damage cap is only supposed to apply to AoE skills, and is thus a nerf.
    Considering that you hardly get 600+ dmg from CH from being in it for 'perfect' 6 seconds... well, maybe it wouldn't affect skill at all... but it would decrease it effeciency for - God forgive me I am saying this - PREMADE groups. But why should people suffer for making a good timing with their abilities?

    DM is not THAT OP as OP is trying to show us. It takes skill to find safe (more or less) place to start channeling then it needs perfect coordination and timing. And allies smart enough not to attack the target.
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  6. #6
    I don't get how people think choking haze is op...
    If you actually play with sound on and not blasting music, you can hear it coming at you, you can dodge out of it with out taking damage most of the time. If they nerfed it, i fine it would lose its value and cause major inside camping, which IMO choking Haze helps prevent a lot. I suggest it NOT be touched at all.
    As for mind control, I hardly see anyone use it on the count it ain't so great, its one of those lower level/skill level skills that seem op until you learn the game better and as well for your team to pay attention.
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  7. #7
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    Originally Posted by ICantPauseItMom
    As for mind control, I hardly see anyone use it on the count it ain't so great, its one of those lower level/skill level skills that seem op until you learn the game better and as well for your team to pay attention.
    I agree with you. DM NEEDS voice coordination otherwise it is only 50% as effective as it could be. And this 50% part is fully depends on Deceiver's skill.
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  8. #8
    Originally Posted by Prime_Abstergo
    Okay, melee factor aside..

    Considering that you hardly get 600+ dmg from CH from being in it for 'perfect' 6 seconds... well, maybe it wouldn't affect skill at all... but it would decrease it effeciency for - God forgive me I am saying this - PREMADE groups. But why should people suffer for making a good timing with their abilities?

    DM is not THAT OP as OP is trying to show us. It takes skill to find safe (more or less) place to start channeling then it needs perfect coordination and timing. And allies smart enough not to attack the target.
    The 600 Damage would be from the DM tick and the CH tick or any other source of damage besides Melee attacks.

    Just to clarify what I'm saying is.

    You get DM'ed --> Start taking Damage ---> Once you reach 600 damage taken while Mind Controlled it stops the Mind Control instantly (Old Mechanics of 6s Duration and Melee breaking CC still active)

    Doing 600 Damage is still damn good and over half your HP, which you will end up getting more damage out of it than 600 because even once the DM ends you will still be in the AoE for another tick and taking DoT damage.

    And for whatever reason if you think 6oo is too low you could make it up to 750 damage cap but all I'm saying is if I'm full HP and I get DM'ed I should at least have a chance to fight back instead of just watching my character Die.

  9. #9
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    Tripleblack, I perfectly understand your feelings, but you really ask to punish people for their tactical prowess and teamwork (mind which is better then in your team because in the first place it is their fault they allow you get DM'ed).

    DM is not a 'no brain' ability which requires no skill and still owns everybody. Thus such scenarios are a rare occasion and mostly happen against premade groups. But 'PUG vs. PreMade' is another issue for another topic don't you think?

    Described situation occured yesterday during one of my games. Me and my friend have coordinated our CH and DM so I lured alchemist into CH where he died in agony. Btw I've got 30XP for 'kill'. Sigh...
    Last edited by Prime_Abstergo; 8th May 2014 at 11:34.
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  10. #10
    I think the main problem with DM is its potential length of effect ... I'm not positive but I believe that using DM into CH can kill a human from 100% hp if they endure the maximum length of both skills. Someone experiencing this for the first time would certainly feel frustrated.

    It would also be nice if partial, momentary line-of-sight obstruction didn't restart the activation period.
    Last edited by PencileyePirate; 9th May 2014 at 02:46.

  11. #11
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    There needs to be something that indicates to your team that you are controlling this human so they knows it safe to ignore them and focus on the rest of the human team.

    I agree DM doesn't do much or get you much for the work you do to pull it off and I like the idea of a higher damage cap; but I have an alternative suggestion. While you control the human you get to attack their teammates with them. No RMB or F&Q, you are just shooting from the hip. Then you could have actual fun with this ability instead of it just feeling like work, and then it also wouldn't be next to impossible to get credit for a kill with it.

  12. #12
    I have no doubts that Mind Control + Choking Haze is a well coordinated strategy, but I do feel it is a bit overpowered as well.

    I really don't understand why taking any damage (AOE or normal) doesn't break the Mind Control like most of us thought it would.

    I don't want to see Choking Haze "nerfed," nor do I want to see Control Mind "nerfed" in any way except that taking ANY damage will break the control. With hints that they plan to make the Deceiver not as obvious when using Min Control, I don't think this is really a "nerf" at all. Mind Control is still a very useful ability.

  13. #13
    I like the idea of adding a damage threshold to Dominate Mind, though i think 600 may be a little high.

    I was thinking around 400, to put it closer to the threshold of bolas (350) and kidnap (200 or 250...i forget)

    After all, even after the 400 threshold is reached, the person is still potentially in the middle of a Choking Haze and will take another ~150 damage anyway.

  14. #14
    Originally Posted by Voradors
    I like the idea of adding a damage threshold to Dominate Mind, though i think 600 may be a little high.

    I was thinking around 400, to put it closer to the threshold of bolas (350) and kidnap (200 or 250...i forget)

    After all, even after the 400 threshold is reached, the person is still potentially in the middle of a Choking Haze and will take another ~150 damage anyway.
    Agree, damage break on 400 sounds like a reasonable solution.

  15. #15
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    350 is still to high vs good teams. Once you include the breaking animation and the time it takes for you to actually be able to move it's another 100-600 damage, depending on how focused you are.
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