Thread: 10 pros and 10 cons about DX4

10 pros and 10 cons about DX4

  1. #1

    10 pros and 10 cons about DX4

    I am a long time fan of the series and Deus Ex is my favourite game! Period.

    I love this game. It actually makes you think about life and even teaches you to be more responsible about life!

    Anyway, I know that I will be more useful to the developers, if I give them some critics, not only praises.

    So this is my list of 10 things I did not like.


    1. Reality check.
    Can you imagine these technologies in 2027? A whole ing city flying above another city? In just 17 years from now? A super intelligent AI? And that magical-ball-energy-lighting thingy, (although pseudo-sci-fi explained) that lets you land safely from any height? A helicopter that moves like it comes out of a star wars movie? (the heli in DX1 still has rottors, although it is built 25 years later)
    I will be thrilled to play a DX game, where the character is not a super-hyper robot, but with some more realistic and not so magical enhancements.

    2. Melee attacks.
    The takedown system is really cool, but what happens, if the super augmented agent wants to break a cardboard box - shoot it with the shotgun, or blow it with the typhoon? C'mon. (DX1 had melee atacks)

    3. Better AI.
    And better contextual reactions i.e. it is not normal to be shot in the police department, only because you got inside without permission. Police may detain you and escort you to the exit, or put you in prison.

    4. Sandbox experience.
    Hengsha was great and the metro station really helped.
    But Detroit? Why it has a bus station, but no buses? It did not feel like a real city. Cities should be bigger, even if large amount of areas do not play part in the missions. And maybe more people in the streets + dogs and maybe kids. (DX1 had dogs, but no kids)

    5. Body-parts damaging (available in DX1)
    The whole "no-medical kits" gameplay is a great idea! But it does not mean, that some of the body parts cannot malfunction, if damaged. When hitting an opponent in the arm, he may drop his weapon, or if hit in the legs, he may fall on the ground.

    6. The super augmented agent can sprint for only 5 sec? Yeah right.

    7. Some of the skills are kind of useless.
    It is killing the challenge, if you can see through walls and mark the paths of the enemies and even see their vision cones and the time they will calm down? Woah. These things are shouting "this is just a game, it is not a real combat situation." I delibarately never used these. Even seeing the enemy on the radar is more than enough.

    8. Everything can be hacked.
    Searching for codes and login info is not rewarding and even not recommended. So, instead of experiencing an adventure of searching for a keycode, you end up hacking everything to get exp. (DX1 had some non hackable/non toolable codes)

    9. You can throw around only boxes, containers and recycle bins.
    Get some "havoc" engine! It's 2012. And "Half Life" did it in 2004... It really adds a lot to the gaming experience.

    10. "instant use" option for food/alcohol
    If my inventory is full, it is tedious to open it and throw away the rocket launcher, just to open a space for a beer, that I intend to drink instantly.




    And now the 10 things I really liked:

    1. The cyberpunk atmosphere.
    2. Soundtrack.
    3. No medical kits gameplay.
    4. Social battles.
    5. Takedowns.
    6. Different paths to the objective.
    7. Stealth gameplay. (reminds of Metal Gear, but afterall you are the guys behind another masterpiece "Thief"
    8. Adam's apartment.
    9. The little things that make the world "alive". (e.g. some papers flying when the wind blows)
    10. The story and the 4 endings.

    I am sure, humanity will, at some point in the near future, reach such an existential dilemma.
    The problem topic is not only about augmentations, but about genetic engeneering and cloning of stem cells...
    Will we turn into 2 different species? Time will show.

  2. #2
    Originally Posted by deusex1
    1. Reality check.
    Can you imagine these technologies in 2027? A whole ing city flying above another city? In just 17 years from now? A super intelligent AI? And that magical-ball-energy-lighting thingy, (although pseudo-sci-fi explained) that lets you land safely from any height? A helicopter that moves like it comes out of a star wars movie? (the heli in DX1 still has rottors, although it is built 25 years later)
    I will be thrilled to play a DX game, where the character is not a super-hyper robot, but with some more realistic and not so magical enhancements.
    I found most of the tech quite conservative for 2027, but this was presumably to fit with DX1's silly timeline wherein nano-augmentation doesn't happen until 2050.
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  3. #3
    Yes, it is technologically possible in 17 years. Do you have any idea what technology was like 17 years ago? There weren't even cell phones, and neurological interfaces on robotics was literally the realm of science fiction.
    Speed up the accelerating returns, 'cause carbon doesn’t work, I want to evolve and operate at terahertz.

  4. #4
    Shralla,
    Cell phone technology originates from 1973. And was commercialy available in 1983. That is 27 years ago.
    Research on neurological interfaces began in 1970.
    The first neuroprosthetic devices implanted in humans appeared in 1995. That is 17 years ago.

    I think cell phone technology is far easier to achieve, than the "icarus system" magical thingy.

    And a whole city over another city in 17 years?
    Call me when that happens.

  5. #5
    Cell phone technology originates from 1973. And was commercialy available in 1983. That is 27 years ago.
    Research on neurological interfaces began in 1970.
    The first neuroprosthetic devices implanted in humans appeared in 1995. That is 17 years ago.
    VTOLS (the "Star Wars" helicopter) exist TODAY too.

    Cell phone technology originates from 1973. And was commercialy available in 1983.
    And as far as I know, nobody expected them to become what they are today. A modern cell phone would look like space technology to someone in that era.

    And a whole city over another city in 17 years?
    Call me when that happens.
    We already have artificial islands, so something like that is far from impossible. It's just that probably nobody would bother, since there are more convenient methods of expanding a city. But it's far from magical.

    And besides, going only for the most plausible is a very limited way of creating fiction.

  6. #6
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    Originally Posted by deusex1
    And a whole city over another city in 17 years?
    Call me when that happens.
    Agree with Vector.

    The technology and materials science is already available. What is lacking is a reason, and most importantly, a visionary with the financial wherewithal needed to make it a reality. Unfortunately, in our* current let's-make-as-much-money-now-as-we-can-and-not-invest-in-some-pie-in-the-sky-project attitude will assure a two-tiered city in the forseeable future will never be built.

    It *could* be done, if you had a few spare billion$ to toss around. But those that do, won't.

    *"Our" meaning the entire world.

    Edit:

    Originally Posted by VectorM
    And besides, going only for the most plausible is a very limited way of creating fiction.
    How many people back in 1966 thought that those little handheld communications devices in that fancy new show Star Trek would ever really exist? Not many, I assure you. How about the tricorder Spock always used? Nope, not gonna happen. Doors that automatically open when someone approaches? Nuh-uh... Viewscreens that allow people to talk to each other in realtime from the other side of the planet?

    And yet, now we have devices that actually combine the features of the first two (minus active scanning for the tricorder - we still haven't - quite - got that miniaturized enough), and the third was a reality about the time the series ended. The fourth? Well, I believe there's this thing called Skype...? IMO, science fiction inspires science - or even everyday - fact.
    For when you're too lazy to repost your side of an argument/discussion: http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=115406

  7. #7
    Alright I accept the VTOL and the other comments.

    So the only thing left I need someone to explain is the "magical-ball-energy-lighting thingy" i.e. the icarus system. From all of the augmentations* this is the one that I think is most un-real. Hell it is bending gravity and it is implanted in the neurosystem.

    * Although the ones showing the enemy's cone of vision and the "alarm state" timer, are also pretty much in the gaming realm.

  8. #8
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    Technology has/is improved/improving at an exponential rate. The Wright Brothers plane to a Eurofighter Typhoon/the space shuttle in under 100 years/70 years respectively is a prime example of rapid advancement in a field. Ie,, who knows what will be possible in the next 30 years with computer technology increasing at an insane rate. I know rough guestimates say computer intelligence will surpass our own in the next 10-15 years.

    Very few, of the ideas I've seen demonstrated in Deus Ex seem particuarly far fetched to me. With regards to the "flying city" I haven't actually played the game to that point yet so I'm not entirely clear on what you mean.

    Edit: As for the gravity manipulation, I reckon we need to wait and see if they find the Higgs Boson! :P

  9. #9
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    Originally Posted by popej
    Technology has/is improved/improving at an exponential rate. The Wright Brothers plane to a Eurofighter Typhoon/the space shuttle in under 100 years/70 years respectively is a prime example of rapid advancement in a field. Ie,, who knows what will be possible in the next 30 years with computer technology increasing at an insane rate. I know rough guestimates say computer intelligence will surpass our own in the next 10-15 years.

    Very few, of the ideas I've seen demonstrated in Deus Ex seem particuarly far fetched to me. With regards to the "flying city" I haven't actually played the game to that point yet so I'm not entirely clear on what you mean.

    Edit: As for the gravity manipulation, I reckon we need to wait and see if they find the Higgs Boson! :P
    "Flying city" is a bit of a misnomer. There's nothing "flying" about it. It's simply a second city built above the first, since Heng Sha is a small island and they can't really expand the city outwards.

    BTW, a better comparison would be "from the Wright Brothers to walking on the moon in under 66 years - December, 1903 to July, 1969." IOW, a single human lifetime. All you young folks still have much to look forward to. Probably even things that *no one* can anticipate. Me? I was born in 1964, and my chance to see wonders like that ended when Apollo 17 splashed down. The space shuttle was a joke, a very expensive and deadly joke, and hopefully, future manned missions will learn some hard lessons from it, to at least make it not a complete waste.

    I doubt very much I'll see any manned mission to Mars in what's left of my life, simply because of the short-sightedness of humanity in general, and U.S. politicians specifically. Maybe another country will take on that challenge, but I kinda doubt it.

    </soapbox>
    For when you're too lazy to repost your side of an argument/discussion: http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=115406

  10. #10
    Originally Posted by deusex1
    Hell it is bending gravity
    It's described as a powerful electromagnetic field. It would have to be stupidly powerful to significantly cushion a human's fall, such that I'd agree that it's the furthest-fetched technology in the game, but ‘bending gravity’ it's not.

    Originally Posted by MaxxQ1
    I doubt very much I'll see any manned mission to Mars in what's left of my life, simply because of the short-sightedness of humanity in general, and U.S. politicians specifically. Maybe another country will take on that challenge, but I kinda doubt it.
    I think we need better reasons for a manned mission to Mars than those we have. At this time, the best reason to send humans rather than robotics is the morale boost. That's an expensive morale boost.

    Obviously we need to expand beyond the reaches of Earth, for our own good, but it's exactly for that reason that I think we are wise to conserve the effort and resources until we can establish a self-sufficient colony.
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  11. #11
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    Originally Posted by Saerain
    I think we need better reasons for a manned mission to Mars than those we have. At this time, the best reason to send humans rather than robotics is the morale boost. That's an expensive morale boost.

    Obviously we need to expand beyond the reaches of Earth, for our own good, but it's exactly for that reason that I think we are wise to conserve the effort and resources until we can establish a self-sufficient colony.
    Sorry, but I have to disagree. The best reason to go anywhere is exactly the same reason as the cliched mountain-climber answer to "Why climb a mountain?"

    "Because it's there."

    That should be sufficient reason for us, as it's been sufficient for any other explorer over the past few million years.
    For when you're too lazy to repost your side of an argument/discussion: http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=115406

  12. #12
    Originally Posted by deusex1
    I am a long time fan of the series and Deus Ex is my favourite game! Period.

    I love this game. It actually makes you think about life and even teaches you to be more responsible about life!

    Anyway, I know that I will be more useful to the developers, if I give them some critics, not only praises.

    So this is my list of 10 things I did not like.


    1. Reality check.
    Can you imagine these technologies in 2027? A whole ing city flying above another city? In just 17 years from now? A super intelligent AI? And that magical-ball-energy-lighting thingy, (although pseudo-sci-fi explained) that lets you land safely from any height? A helicopter that moves like it comes out of a star wars movie? (the heli in DX1 still has rottors, although it is built 25 years later)
    I will be thrilled to play a DX game, where the character is not a super-hyper robot, but with some more realistic and not so magical enhancements.

    2. Melee attacks.
    The takedown system is really cool, but what happens, if the super augmented agent wants to break a cardboard box - shoot it with the shotgun, or blow it with the typhoon? C'mon. (DX1 had melee atacks)

    3. Better AI.
    And better contextual reactions i.e. it is not normal to be shot in the police department, only because you got inside without permission. Police may detain you and escort you to the exit, or put you in prison.

    4. Sandbox experience.
    Hengsha was great and the metro station really helped.
    But Detroit? Why it has a bus station, but no buses? It did not feel like a real city. Cities should be bigger, even if large amount of areas do not play part in the missions. And maybe more people in the streets + dogs and maybe kids. (DX1 had dogs, but no kids)

    5. Body-parts damaging (available in DX1)
    The whole "no-medical kits" gameplay is a great idea! But it does not mean, that some of the body parts cannot malfunction, if damaged. When hitting an opponent in the arm, he may drop his weapon, or if hit in the legs, he may fall on the ground.

    6. The super augmented agent can sprint for only 5 sec? Yeah right.

    7. Some of the skills are kind of useless.
    It is killing the challenge, if you can see through walls and mark the paths of the enemies and even see their vision cones and the time they will calm down? Woah. These things are shouting "this is just a game, it is not a real combat situation." I delibarately never used these. Even seeing the enemy on the radar is more than enough.

    8. Everything can be hacked.
    Searching for codes and login info is not rewarding and even not recommended. So, instead of experiencing an adventure of searching for a keycode, you end up hacking everything to get exp. (DX1 had some non hackable/non toolable codes)

    9. You can throw around only boxes, containers and recycle bins.
    Get some "havoc" engine! It's 2012. And "Half Life" did it in 2004... It really adds a lot to the gaming experience.

    10. "instant use" option for food/alcohol
    If my inventory is full, it is tedious to open it and throw away the rocket launcher, just to open a space for a beer, that I intend to drink instantly.




    And now the 10 things I really liked:

    1. The cyberpunk atmosphere.
    2. Soundtrack.
    3. No medical kits gameplay.
    4. Social battles.
    5. Takedowns.
    6. Different paths to the objective.
    7. Stealth gameplay. (reminds of Metal Gear, but afterall you are the guys behind another masterpiece "Thief"
    8. Adam's apartment.
    9. The little things that make the world "alive". (e.g. some papers flying when the wind blows)
    10. The story and the 4 endings.

    I am sure, humanity will, at some point in the near future, reach such an existential dilemma.
    The problem topic is not only about augmentations, but about genetic engeneering and cloning of stem cells...
    Will we turn into 2 different species? Time will show.
    omg you have an amazing username. lol

  13. #13
    Hard to tell how technology will progress (look at those predictions from the early 70s where by now we should be living on the moon in a world without illness), but I agree that it feels somewhat too futuristic at times.

    Many technologies might be certainly possible, but widespread adoption as depicted in HR seems implausible.

  14. #14
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    It's hard to judge Deus Ex 4 when it hasn't been released.

    (click image to enlarge)

  15. #15
    We have planes capable of VTOL now, at the present. (check out this video for example:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QL-Owz4C2rY), and the augs aren't so sci-fi, it only takes one scientific breakthrough to make all those things happen, and in the Deus Ex universe it happened exactly this way, Hugh Darrow invented them(if it weren't for his discoveries, it would've taken far more time for humanity to advance the way it did in DE:HR). In our history this is exactly what happened: the discovery of electricity, the silicon chip, nuclear energy, etc... if it weren't for these discoveries we would have been stuck in the dark ages for eternity, so it only takes 1 clever idea to revolutionize mankind.