Page 5 of 9 FirstFirst 123456789 LastLast
Results 101 to 125 of 208

Thread: Nudity

  1. #101
    Just to let you know that my reasons for considering an attempted rape scene are totally different from AnthonyP 88's reasons. First off, I am not a lesbian and second I think it is inhumane to want a rape scene just to see some of Lara's flesh. My reasons, I think, are justifiable. I don't particularly want a rape scene added in the gane, I'd just consider it as character building for Lara to go through horrific ordeals that will make her stronger.

    ^^ 23% of women are subject to sexual assault in England and Wales, not rape. I think that's were your sources come from.

  2. #102
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Mater Urbium
    Posts
    27,488
    temp closed. will re-open tomorrow

    Driber.net | Forum Thumbnailer | Driber Wagon™ | RAWR! | TR Ancient Legends III - Lost Chambers | -- .- .-. .. . / .. ... / -.-. ..- - . :-)

  3. #103
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Mater Urbium
    Posts
    27,488
    Thread is open again.

    !IMPORTANT!

    We'll allow the discussion of nudity to continue (for now), but the subject of rape has proven to be one that makes some members uncomfortable and even upset and is therefore not to be discussed here anymore.

    Just to make it perfectly clear, here's a re-cap of what is allowed:

    - Civilized discussion on whether or not nudity would be appropriate in a future TR game.

    The following things are NOT ALLOWED and posts containing any of these will be removed on sight without further explanation:

    - (Attempted) rape scenes in a TR game.

    - Rude or insensitive comments towards others.

    - Detailed descriptions about sexual conduct.

    If the forum staff spots any posts containing allowed things but also not allowed things, we'll simply remove the whole post. We do not have the time to edit every inappropriate bit out, so please make sure everything in your post follows the above rules, and of course our TOU.

    Furthermore, as this is a touchy subject, this thread may be temporarily closed again during times when no moderators are available to supervise. This is to ensure the thread won't turn into a flame war during our off-hours.

    Edit - Adding a little disclaimer: Just because we allow this discussion to happen, doesn't mean that forum staff members, nor Square employees support the idea of nudity in a TR game. My personal view on this is that while I have no problem with nudity in videogames myself, I hope we'll never see Lara intentionally naked in a TR game, because IMO it would only degrade Lara.

    Driber.net | Forum Thumbnailer | Driber Wagon™ | RAWR! | TR Ancient Legends III - Lost Chambers | -- .- .-. .. . / .. ... / -.-. ..- - . :-)

  4. #104
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Rhode Island-USA
    Posts
    712
    Sorry not sure what this thread is really about. Are we supposed to mention whether or not we'd like to see Lara naked in TR? My answer would be no. It's bad enough in the previous games she was given extra large chest size. Her taking off her clothes would be probably off topic to TR because Lara hasn't done that ever. Sorry just my opinion.
    signature image

  5. #105
    I don't have a problem with nudity, nor am I bothered by Lara being viewed as a sex symbol. But even taking that into consideration, I just can't really see a reason for her to be nude in the game. I do think it'd be kind of contrary to the whole re-imagining taking place with Lara, and the idea of there being some sort of rape or sexual assault take place in the game would make it very difficult, maybe even impossible, for me to play the game. I can't even watch or hear scenes like that in films--I have to completely leave the room. Lara can be challenged and pushed to her limits without that sort of situation.

  6. #106
    Definite no to naked Lara from me. She should always be a sex SYMBOL, but never a sex OBJECT, and I think it would be very difficult to show a naked Lara without crossing that line.
    signature image

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by TrickyVein View Post
    Pfft. Stop kidding yourself. Of course you do! You're just ashamed to admit it
    No. Really. If Lara did go to the level of nudity then it would take her classyness away. I am strongly for a bit of cheekiness like the 'don't you think youv'e seen enough' cutscene or the flirting with Larson. The Japan dress is so sexy and awesome too. This is how to use sex appeal but nudity is too far. It would kind of feel a little like seeing a friend naked.... a bit akward perhaps.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lara_Fan_84 View Post
    It's bad enough in the previous games she was given extra large chest size.
    The large breasts were probably a significant part of why Lara broke in to mainstream popular culture. Hate it or not, without them she probably wouldn't be as sucessfull or well known worldwide. She would have still done well anyway but not as well as she has done with them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elliot Kane View Post
    She should always be a sex SYMBOL, but never a sex OBJECT, and I think it would be very difficult to show a naked Lara without crossing that line.
    With you all the way on that one. I will add though that going too far the other way and getting a desexualised Lara would be dreadful too. She should indeed be sexy just not a sex object. There is no way to get nudity into TR and for it to be widely accepted especially with such a strong female fanbase. If the Pandora's box of nudity was opened the damage to TR's reputation would go on for years whatever they did after that.
    Andy64 - The TR traditionalist maverick

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Andy64 View Post
    The large breasts were probably a significant part of why Lara broke in to mainstream popular culture. Hate it or not, without them she probably wouldn't be as sucessfull or well known worldwide. She would have still done well anyway but not as well as she has done with them.
    Indeed. But they were also the reason why a huge part of the non-gamer population thinks of her as a cheap trick to lure horny teenagers and is prejudiced against every Tomb Raider new release without even knowing what they are all about. Even in fan forums everywhere, how many times did you see the word 'boobs' immediately associated with her name.

    This is what I call the wrong kind of popularity, one decade and a half after Core's decision to increase her breast size and we didn't get rid of this image yet. I don't think being associated with misogynist stereotypes is bringing any good to the series at this point. I'd rather see sales decreased somewhat than pass the image that Eidos wants profit at all costs. It's cheap and disgusting. You can't please pervert teens and true fans at the same time, if we want the series to be taken seriously we know what's the only choice.
    signature image

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by QiX View Post
    Indeed. But they were also the reason why a huge part of the non-gamer population thinks of her as a cheap trick to lure horny teenagers and is prejudiced against every Tomb Raider new release without even knowing what they are all about. Even in fan forums everywhere, how many times did you see the word 'boobs' immediately associated with her name.

    This is what I call the wrong kind of popularity, one decade and a half after Core's decision to increase her breast size and we didn't get rid of this image yet. I don't think being associated with misogynist stereotypes is bringing any good to the series at this point. I'd rather see sales decreased somewhat than pass the image that Eidos wants profit at all costs. It's cheap and disgusting. You can't please pervert teens and true fans at the same time, if we want the series to be taken seriously we know what's the only choice.
    If Core hadn't gone with such a bold image then Lara may never have got the fame level necessary to inspire the creation of tons of female progonists and a re-evaluation of the gaming industry that brought women much more to the forefront. At worst it could be called a bad means to a good end. Times do indeed change and I am glad they rescaled her a bit though I find the extent of that reshaping too great. (Better save anymore thoughts there for a more related thread). I always think it's great how Lara can have the looks and dresses attractively but still maintains decorum by not exploiting her looks. It's a good message.

    QiX uses the terms 'cheap and disgusting' in relation to Lara old body. Just imagine if TR did go for nudity in a game. Those kind of comments would be everywhere forever more. I stick with the Pandora's box analogy as it would be impossible to come back from. Shouldn't be done. I don't know how good it is to brand a whole section of our teenage fans 'pervert teens' though. Maybe not something to say.
    Andy64 - The TR traditionalist maverick

  10. #110
    I agree with Andy on this one.

    I think most of us agree that Lara should never be a sex OBJECT. No woman should (Or man either, for that matter). It's demeaning and devaluing.

    But a confident, capable, highly intelligent sex SYMBOL is a whole other thing. Lara should be the kind of woman who COULD live by her looks if she wanted, but who chooses to use her mind and her abilities instead.

    This is why I think Underworld Lara is the best so far. She has a fairly realistic figure (Far more so than many and perhaps most other female characters in games), yet she is clearly female. The look is perfect.

    As for worrying about what ignorant people may think, well, in my younger days I was an avid player of Dungeons & Dragons at the time when the media was full of frothing lunatics accusing all role players of devil worship. I was (And am!) also into Heavy Metal music, the fans of which are similarly maligned on a perennial basis. If you think I'm going to worry over ignorant people thinking I, as a straight male, play games because the lead character has boobs, well, guess again! My younger self could only DREAM of such gentle-minded ignorance!
    signature image

  11. #111
    My personal philosophy:

    If I have to play a game in third person perspective, she'd better have a cute bum.


    (This is of course, offered tongue in cheek, because I play a lot of third person titles, regardless of main character's gender...I will say though that if such games have a "first person view" option when involving male character's, I will switch to first person view.)

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Andy64 View Post

    The large breasts were probably a significant part of why Lara broke in to mainstream popular culture. Hate it or not, without them she probably wouldn't be as sucessfull or well known worldwide. She would have still done well anyway but not as well as she has done with them.
    This is very likely, but now that she IS sucessful and well known, perhaps the players can concentrate on something other than her looks. Right now Lara's personality and character are much more important than her breast size or skin. The internet is full of naked women, so if people want to see that, they can go there. I don't see the need for TR to ever include it just to attract some more players.
    "I'd like to say it was nice to meet you, but that would be a lie"
    signature image

  13. #113
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    4,050
    Large breast were also an accident
    Raiding tombs since 2007. tumblr | N7 #HeroOfFerelden #ChampionOfKirkwall
    signature image

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Andy64 View Post
    If Core hadn't gone with such a bold image then Lara may never have got the fame level necessary to inspire the creation of tons of female progonists and a re-evaluation of the gaming industry that brought women much more to the forefront. At worst it could be called a bad means to a good end. Times do indeed change and I am glad they rescaled her a bit though I find the extent of that reshaping too great. (Better save anymore thoughts there for a more related thread). I always think it's great how Lara can have the looks and dresses attractively but still maintains decorum by not exploiting her looks. It's a good message.

    QiX uses the terms 'cheap and disgusting' in relation to Lara old body. Just imagine if TR did go for nudity in a game. Those kind of comments would be everywhere forever more. I stick with the Pandora's box analogy as it would be impossible to come back from. Shouldn't be done. I don't know how good it is to brand a whole section of our teenage fans 'pervert teens' though. Maybe not something to say.
    It doesn't make it less of a bad marketing decision by Core/Eidos back then IMO. Lara inspired tons of female protagonists in gaming industry, OK. But does it mean a progress if the huge majority of them are barely dressed in bikinis to appeal to the preferences of the young male share of the consumers? I didn't use 'cheap and disgusting' to refer to Lara's classic body itself, but to the act of using erotism and nudity just for the sake of making easy money. I don't want Lara in a burka, I enjoy the sight of a beautiful woman. But look at the character concept pics, look at the game demos released. Does she really need to get anything sexier? The pic at the top of this very page, look at those eyes and lips. Do we really need flashing boobs? She is HOT already. She looks awesome, covered in blood and mud she's still gorgeous. I don't think we need to go any deeper in sensuality right now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elliot Kane View Post
    I agree with Andy on this one.

    I think most of us agree that Lara should never be a sex OBJECT. No woman should (Or man either, for that matter). It's demeaning and devaluing.

    But a confident, capable, highly intelligent sex SYMBOL is a whole other thing. Lara should be the kind of woman who COULD live by her looks if she wanted, but who chooses to use her mind and her abilities instead.

    This is why I think Underworld Lara is the best so far. She has a fairly realistic figure (Far more so than many and perhaps most other female characters in games), yet she is clearly female. The look is perfect.

    As for worrying about what ignorant people may think, well, in my younger days I was an avid player of Dungeons & Dragons at the time when the media was full of frothing lunatics accusing all role players of devil worship. I was (And am!) also into Heavy Metal music, the fans of which are similarly maligned on a perennial basis. If you think I'm going to worry over ignorant people thinking I, as a straight male, play games because the lead character has boobs, well, guess again! My younger self could only DREAM of such gentle-minded ignorance!
    I don't really care for what everyone thinks but what we fans want. Sensuality, erotism, softcore porn, the art direction will draw a line, obviously. But where? This is the point of this debate, I think. Some want to get kinky, some are happy with the current tone, I'm among the latter group. Not everyone will be happy with the final product, too bad. But a decision must be made.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Martok View Post
    My personal philosophy:

    If I have to play a game in third person perspective, she'd better have a cute bum.


    (This is of course, offered tongue in cheek, because I play a lot of third person titles, regardless of main character's gender...I will say though that if such games have a "first person view" option when involving male character's, I will switch to first person view.)
    I like cute bums. But given the context of the game I think a cute bum inside of cargo pants is good enough. Unlockable bikinis are nice too, but they fit in the context of the swimming pool at the Croft manor, which doesn't exist in this game, at least so far.

    Quote Originally Posted by sierra xb View Post
    This is very likely, but now that she IS sucessful and well known, perhaps the players can concentrate on something other than her looks. Right now Lara's personality and character are much more important than her breast size or skin. The internet is full of naked women, so if people want to see that, they can go there. I don't see the need for TR to ever include it just to attract some more players.
    I'm 100% with you here. I wouldn't have put it in better words
    signature image

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by sierra xb View Post
    This is very likely, but now that she IS sucessful and well known, perhaps the players can concentrate on something other than her looks. Right now Lara's personality and character are much more important than her breast size or skin. The internet is full of naked women, so if people want to see that, they can go there. I don't see the need for TR to ever include it just to attract some more players.
    100% with you on this.

  16. #116
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Middle Earth
    Posts
    3,400
    I'm with sierra and QiX!
    signature image

  17. #117
    QiX,

    I don't really care for what everyone thinks but what we fans want. Sensuality, erotism, softcore porn, the art direction will draw a line, obviously. But where? This is the point of this debate, I think. Some want to get kinky, some are happy with the current tone, I'm among the latter group. Not everyone will be happy with the final product, too bad. But a decision must be made.
    And some of us just want Lara to look like Lara. Don't forget us

    'Cartoon Lara' was fine back in the day when she WAS pretty much a cartoon. That had to change - and DID change - for the CD games, which gave her a much more realistic look.

    But Lara has curves. That's not a matter of 'kinky' or 'sensual' or any of the things you mentioned. It is a matter of looking like Lara.

    You don't see me arguing against realistic outfits. I'm emphatically against nude Lara as I can see no way it would benefit the game or the character. But the Lara inside the outfits needs to look like Lara. Which means curves.
    signature image

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by QiX View Post
    It doesn't make it less of a bad marketing decision by Core/Eidos back then IMO. Lara inspired tons of female protagonists in gaming industry, OK. But does it mean a progress if the huge majority of them are barely dressed in bikinis to appeal to the preferences of the young male share of the consumers?
    Most of the female characters of the 90's played very secondary sidesick roles often as the damsel in distress (eg Amy rose or Princess Peach). Lara changed all that. It was progress, massive progress. The presence of so many females in bikini's now is merely a reflection on popular culture and a gamer demographic particually high in young males. The choices CORE/Eidos made in relation to Lara, games and marketing got TR so big we are all on here today and mean that Lara will never be forgotten. I don't think they deserve your harsh critism after that.

    Quote Originally Posted by QiX View Post
    I didn't use 'cheap and disgusting' to refer to Lara's classic body itself, but to the act of using erotism and nudity just for the sake of making easy money.
    Neither Lara or Core used nudity so that's not relevant to the remark. Lets look at the use of erotism then. Look at the fashion industry or look at some newpapers. Have you seen the music videos of Lady Gaga, Rihanna or the hit that launched Katy Perry? Erotism right at the heart of popular culture. Do you label them 'cheap and disgusting' too?

    Quote Originally Posted by QiX View Post
    But look at the character concept pics, look at the game demos released. Does she really need to get anything sexier? The pic at the top of this very page, look at those eyes and lips.
    In the banner Lara's eyes and lips are very pretty but the heavy masculine jawline spoils it. Lara's chin is more a smooth curve. In concept art there's the beauty of the spectacular green render of her face but also the full body shot that's too close to tomboy. The trailer Lara looks great. The question though was does Lara need to get sexier? When she is currently in boys' clothing with a grey on grey colour scheme then I have to say yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elliot Kane View Post
    QiX, And some of us just want Lara to look like Lara. Don't forget us
    I am in that camp. What I want to see is a hint of sexyness in the outfits and some curves to fit with who Lara is. It not unrealistic and theres no reason why you can't get that and have realism. I am not saying go back to a TR3 (or even TRU) physique or the last thing I want is nude Lara.
    Andy64 - The TR traditionalist maverick

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Andy64 View Post
    Most of the female characters of the 90's played very secondary sidesick roles often as the damsel in distress (eg Amy rose or Princess Peach). Lara changed all that. It was progress, massive progress. The presence of so many females in bikini's now is merely a reflection on popular culture and a gamer demographic particually high in young males. The choices CORE/Eidos made in relation to Lara, games and marketing got TR so big we are all on here today and mean that Lara will never be forgotten. I don't think they deserve your harsh critism after that.
    You're right. In terms. Let's not judge the past that harshly. I just think that the gamer demographic has changed. Teens playing Tomb Raider today were born after the first game, the presence of girls and gay males among the fans has grown a lot, for instance. Aesthetic and thematic changes to the series are a natural step. Zeitgeist, you know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy64 View Post
    Neither Lara or Core used nudity so that's not relevant to the remark. Lets look at the use of erotism then. Look at the fashion industry or look at some newpapers. Have you seen the music videos of Lady Gaga, Rihanna or the hit that launched Katy Perry? Erotism right at the heart of popular culture. Do you label them 'cheap and disgusting' too?
    I know nudity was not used really, except slightly insinuated in official promo and advertising. But, yes, it is important to remark it, because it consists the very subject of this thread. And no, I don't think Lady Gaga, Rihanna or Katy Perry push that hard on erotism, no considering the video clip scene as of the current decade. Nor I think they're 'cheap and disgusting'. But, man, I do not want to see Lara running in a remote japanese island dressed like Lady Gaga. Or do I? Now that I think of it... Nah, joking. I don't

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy64 View Post
    In the banner Lara's eyes and lips are very pretty but the heavy masculine jawline spoils it. Lara's chin is more a smooth curve. In concept art there's the beauty of the spectacular green render of her face but also the full body shot that's too close to tomboy. The trailer Lara looks great. The question though was does Lara need to get sexier? When she is currently in boys' clothing with a grey on grey colour scheme then I have to say yes.
    Masculine jawline?!? You're not saying masculine as Justin Bieber's chin, are you? The green render has exactly the same base model AFAIK, just a lighter eye colour and less dirt and blood cover. This girl has a much bolder jaw:



    I wouldn't call her masculine in one million years (brazilian top model Isabeli Fontana, in case you want to google more pics). All this talk about manly chin is an exaggeration.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy64 View Post
    I am in that camp. What I want to see is a hint of sexyness in the outfits and some curves to fit with who Lara is. It not unrealistic and theres no reason why you can't get that and have realism. I am not saying go back to a TR3 (or even TRU) physique or the last thing I want is nude Lara.
    Totally agree.
    signature image

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Elliot Kane View Post
    QiX,



    And some of us just want Lara to look like Lara. Don't forget us ...

    ...But Lara has curves. That's not a matter of 'kinky' or 'sensual' or any of the things you mentioned. It is a matter of looking like Lara.

    You don't see me arguing against realistic outfits. I'm emphatically against nude Lara as I can see no way it would benefit the game or the character. But the Lara inside the outfits needs to look like Lara. Which means curves.
    The nice thing is that we have time for that...remember that THIS Lara is still young, and those curves (and the sexyness that comes with them) will likely develop over time...just as long as they don't get stupid about it. Give it another game or two, and I am sure that Lara will fill out nicely, as well as have the wardrobe that she deserves.
    "I'd like to say it was nice to meet you, but that would be a lie"
    signature image

  21. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by sierra xb View Post
    The nice thing is that we have time for that...remember that THIS Lara is still young, and those curves (and the sexyness that comes with them) will likely develop over time...just as long as they don't get stupid about it. Give it another game or two, and I am sure that Lara will fill out nicely, as well as have the wardrobe that she deserves.
    I agree

    No 21 year old has yet reached their full adult build.

    When we first met Lara in TR1 she was well established in what she did and probably somewhere in her late 20s with her full adult build.

    With Young Lara, she has growing still to do. They just need to not get stupid about it in either direction.
    signature image

  22. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Andy64 View Post
    Most of the female characters of the 90's played very secondary sidesick roles often as the damsel in distress (eg Amy rose or Princess Peach). Lara changed all that. It was progress, massive progress.
    Indeed. Look at characters that followed, like Claire Redfield in Resident Evil 2. I would say Jill Valentine from the original Resident Evil, but I do believe she actually pre-dated Lara...but not by much. In any case, strong (as in intelligent, capable, resourceful...and sexy) female leads in video games can definitely be attributed to Lara Croft's rise in the 90's. Regina in Dino Crisis and Dino Crisis 2, Heather Morris (Heather Mason?) in Silent Hill 3, Aya Brea in the Parasite Eve games, Koudelka Lasant from Koudelka, Lightning (I think) from Final Fantasy XIII and the upcoming FF XIII-2, Yuna from Final Fantasy X, (although I prefer her iteration from FF X-2.), and Rubi Malone from WET...just to name a few.

    Now, sometimes those female leads (as time went on) got to be a bit cheesecake (OniChanbara or Bayonetta). Unfortunately, for OniChanbara, the gameplay sucked. I've only demoed Bayonetta yet, but I heard that it rocks. In a game like Final Fantasy X-2, Yuna transformed from wise summoner to cute, nice party girl, who with her two friends Rayne(?) and Rikku, played out in an almost sometimes McG'ish "Charlie's Angels" style. (Admittedly, I prefer the latter Yuna. )









    Quote Originally Posted by Andy64

    I am in that camp. What I want to see is a hint of sexyness in the outfits and some curves to fit with who Lara is. It not unrealistic and theres no reason why you can't get that and have realism. I am not saying go back to a TR3 (or even TRU) physique or the last thing I want is nude Lara.
    Agreed. Let me add that I (and I'm sure a lot of like minded Lara fans) am willing to play through the new Tomb Raider as is, to appreciate the efforts that the dev team have gone to to present us with this new styled Lara, and hope that at the end of the game, we old school Lara fans are rewarded with getting to play through again, with Lara looking like we know her. And I also do not need or want NUDE RAIDER.

  23. #123
    @QiX: I so agree. People are over-playing the chin thing. Her chin is fine. Not too sharp, not too broad.

    And Lara does have curves in this game:


    ^ click to enlarge

    Dunno about you but I can definately see the curves. They're totally realistic but at the same time 'sexy.'

    Edit: How do I downsize the image. I tried to find a small pic of this but all of them were blurry so I used your HD pic, Driber.


    [Edit by Driber: When it concerns official TR media on my server, like the one above, simply add "thumbs/" to the URL right before the filename and you'll get the tiny version.

    Like so: http://driber.net/os/tr9/Screenshots/Night%20Hub/Night%20Hub%202.jpg -> http://driber.net/os/tr9/Screenshots/Night%20Hub/thumbs/Night%20Hub%202.jpg

    You can then make it clickable and link to the HD version. I fixed the IMG in this post ]

  24. #124
    Join Date
    Nov 1999
    Posts
    5,865

    Exclamation

    Thanks for the info, Driber, but it was LadyRufina who asked this question, not me. I just put the image inside thumb tags.

  25. #125
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Mater Urbium
    Posts
    27,488
    Ahhh gotcha. D'OH!

    I corrected it

Page 5 of 9 FirstFirst 123456789 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •