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Thread: Nudity

  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by jakobsen View Post
    Pervert or not... but that could explain her 'later'(TR1-5) attitude to man... at least I seen her back then as MAN hater.
    I'm still against nudity in TR9, but that could make sense.
    Remember, in the new TR timeline, TR1-5 don't exist, so any perceived attitude from Lara back then has nothing to do with this game.

    When I hear "Lara naked" all i can think is that this game is supposed to be a survival/adventure game, not soft porn. Seeing a little (or alot) of Lara's skin IMO would add nothing to the story or the overall game experience. I also don't see the need to bringing a possible attempted rape scenario as a reason to justify seeing Lara without clothes. Something else to consider...most players will not be bothered by the violence because they have never experienced it in real life, but many girls and women HAVE been sexually attacked in real life, and DO NOT need to be reminded about it by seeing it in a video game.
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  2. #52
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    It is always topics about Lara's looks/sexuality that take off like a plane

    That's it, my ultimate conclusion is that everyone is just shallow

    @ humble abode discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Martok View Post
    In truth, with Lara's original incarnations, I'm amazed she didn't constantly topple forward with her top-heaviness.
    Newsflash: it's a game. There are far worst unrealistic things to concern yourself with, such as....I don't know.....floating islands!?

    I'm sure the laws of physics were bent (pun intended) much, much more than with Lara's boobs

    Quote Originally Posted by Elliot Kane View Post
    But there is a vast difference between Lara having sex appeal (As she always has) and Lara being a sex object (Which none of her fans want to see).
    Don't underestimate the typical male, EK

    I've met my share of TR fans during my last 10+ years on this forum who love NR

    Quote Originally Posted by sierra xb View Post
    ...but many girls and women HAVE been sexually attacked in real life, and DO NOT need to be reminded about it by seeing it in a video game.

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  3. #53
    I always find people are better than they think they are, Driber. You just have to point that out to them, once in a while!
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  4. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by d1n0_xD View Post
    Exactly You can tell darker stories and stuff...
    What exactly do you mean with darker stories? Stories that involve disgusting looking creatures that pop out of nothing and scare the hell out of the player? Such kind of things are okay, but a naked feminine body is a big no, no? I'm really confused.

    @Elliot Kane: Stories that tell things in a more complicated fashion aren't really restricted to the mature audience only. Do you ever seen scientific books that deal with complicated math, physics, or psychology and have a big "M" rating on the cover? I've seen also minors thar are way smarter than adults. I think that's an outdated view of the world. Beeing and adult doesn't qualifies you automaticaly for high complicated task.

    @sierra_xb: I don't understand it exactly. There will be more Tomb Raider Games in the future and the very first part is very important for all the future games. The first part can be responsible for Laras future character.

    EDIT: [to the first paragraph]: Male bodies may be included.

  5. #55
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    ^ OH! Nude men! That makes it all better!
    But seriously, I can see that nudity is a part of the M rating but it honestly doesn't fit in with this Tomb Raider story. If was an important part to the game then yes I would have no objections.
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  6. #56
    Anthony,

    The Witcher is set in a dark world where the native races are divided against each other by mistrust, hatred and an ever growing series of atrocities by both sides. The minority races fight back through terrorism, the authorities respond with repression and tyranny.

    All sides are shown to contain both evil fanatics and good people pushed past endurance into measures they would normally hate.

    There is no 'Good Side' and 'Evil Side' in the Witcher's world, just people competing for resources, for power, or for an agenda that - most of the time - they truly believe to be right. Quite often the agenda may even be survival.

    Tackling difficult subjects like racism and terrorism with subtlety, nuance and shades of grey is what I would personally consider mature storytelling. You could throw in issues like drug abuse, bullying, abusive relationships, etc. Anything that children should ideally not have to experience (Though all too many do, sadly) but that adults need to understand.

    Sure, sometimes adult stories might include nudity, sex, etc. But they do not HAVE to, any more than they need to include violence.

    In TR's case specifically, a lot of that will not really be relevant, but I suspect the 'Horror' will include psychological creep as well as some truly nasty physical brutality carried out on shipwrecked people by the islanders. Too scary or shocking for kids is what gets most 18 Horror films their rating, after all.
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  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elliot Kane View Post
    I always find people are better than they think they are, Driber.
    And I usually find people are worse than they think they are....or portray to be

    Quote Originally Posted by AnthonyP_88 View Post
    What exactly do you mean with darker stories? Stories that involve disgusting looking creatures that pop out of nothing and scare the hell out of the player? Such kind of things are okay, but a naked feminine body is a big no, no? I'm really confused.
    Typically, that is the view of parents, politicians, etc.

    With gamers - the people who actually play the game - it is in general not a big issue, if done right.

    I think most of us would not have a problem with nudity per se, but it has to fit in the game, and not just thrown in there for the sake of it.

    So far, I've not heard a good example of how intentionally implemented nudity would fit in TR.

    So no, nudity is not a big no no; it just has no place within the TR series.

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  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnthonyP_88 View Post
    What exactly do you mean with darker stories? Stories that involve disgusting looking creatures that pop out of nothing and scare the hell out of the player? Such kind of things are okay, but a naked feminine body is a big no, no? I'm really confused.
    How did you connect a dark story with disgusting looking creatures? XD Elliot explained well, you don't see stuff like racism in a kid's game... Stuff like murder, stuff that freaks you out, but from another, moral view, let's say. Not "scare the hell out of you" freaking

    Edit: And I agree with Driber, it has to fit to be implemented.
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  9. #59
    Driber,

    And I usually find people are worse than they think they are....or portray to be
    I think I prefer the people I know to the people you know, then!

    Seriously - everyone has their dark side. But everyone has their good side, too. We are all capable of utter atrocity. But we are also all capable of the most wonderful acts of compassion and mercy. Humans are weird.

    I think most of us would not have a problem with nudity per se, but it has to fit in the game, and not just thrown in there for the sake of it.

    So far, I've not heard a good example of how intentionally implemented nudity would fit in TR.
    That's it entirely from my POV, yes
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  10. #60
    it was cool that soomeone mentioned Witcher . and it also reminded me of the Series Game Of Thrones which included violence , nudity and ... becuz the story was a bout a Dark world in the past and such themes were essential to show the attitude of those people .
    but here in TR it's not appropriate at all ! seriously it doesn't fit !
    hey anthony if u insist on seeing lara naked why would u wait for Roth to draw her ? go draw her naked urself xD lol (kidding)
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  11. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by sierra xb View Post
    Remember, in the new TR timeline, TR1-5 don't exist, so any perceived attitude from Lara back then has nothing to do with this game.
    I dont get it... I thoght TR9 is about Lara before she became Lara we know.

    Edit: I was mistaken.
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  12. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by d1n0_xD View Post
    How did you connect a dark story with disgusting looking creatures? XD Elliot explained well, you don't see stuff like racism in a kid's game... Stuff like murder, stuff that freaks you out, but from another, moral view, let's say. Not "scare the hell out of you" freaking

    Edit: And I agree with Driber, it has to fit to be implemented.
    It is only murder that makes sense in a Tomb Raider game, but murder was also included in all the previous games of the old series (The games were sold to children - at least here in Germany (USK 12 rating)). It's not new. All they can do is to make the games look more realistic. In other words to increase the violence and to be honest: To virtually kill a person in a barbaric way is by far more worse than a virtual sex scene. Let us take a little journey to the real world. I think to steal someones life forever is not as bad as to give someone else some lovely moments. It sounds strange to me, because a thing that is worse seems to be more accepted than something different which is harmless in contrast.

    EDIT: @jakobsen: Yes of course. Tomb Raider 1 (not TR 9) will introduce a completely new character. It is the foundation for a brand new series.
    EDIT 2: I'm sorry. I should think before I hit the submit button and not afterwards.

  13. #63
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    I'm pretty sure if she had the choice not to kill, she wouldn't... Just like if she had the choice to be naked...

    And you compare 'murder' to 'lovely moments' however you mentioned rape earlier?
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  14. #64
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    a big house, I think Anthony was listing several different examples of how nudity might be implemented, in his opinion. One being an attempted rape scene, another being a more soft erotic scene where Lara would give the guy consent to "go further".

    He was also pointing out the hypocrisy of the cliché where violence is considered okay but nudity and sex - which in his opinion is less of a deal - is not.

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  15. #65
    I agree with other people, nudity just has no place in a TR game.

    Sex on the other hand is a whole different story.

    Like Anthony mentioned, Lara is on an island full of dudes, and dudes want sex.

    You always see that when men get stuck together for a looooooooong time, they always find a way to have sex, wether it's solo or with other guys.
    But when a good-looking lady like Lara comes around and the dudes aren't really well-mannered, they might try to have sex with her in a way she doesn't agree with.

    In other words; They'll probably try to rape her. I think it would be pretty realistic if there would be a scene where someone will try to rape her (like: push her on the ground, try to rip her clothes off, use vulgar words...)
    During the scene there could be a quicktime event like we saw in the demo, and in the end she could kick him off her and than there could be a fight in which the player fully controls her.

    I think something like that would fit in with the rest of the game perfectly

  16. #66
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    @Driber, I didn't mean it in an offensive way or anything, I was just commenting on what he had put, which to be fair was a valid point.

    Thinking more about it in the 'lovingly' way, CD did say that the guy who saved Lara would be important...
    And there's that guy in the picture with Roth...
    If either of those are the case then sure, go ahead with the nudity but no to rape and streaking around.
    But then, just knowing it's happening is enough, there is no need to see it. Do what Ezio does; move out the camera shot
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  17. #67
    Thank you, LARALOVERnr.1. Events like that are the ones that give the story a realistic touch and may arouse special emotions on the player side.

    @a big house: All the killing isn't really necessary. All we can do is to solve puzzles, gather wood, food, water and interact with other characters in a non violent way. The game could be a about a rather boring expedition and not a nearly surreal action adventure. Would you buy such a game?

    I wonder how the sales might look like...

    EDIT: "Do what Ezio does; move out the camera shot"

    Well, that is also true for other violent scenes. Would you really like that?

  18. #68
    I agree that sex would be fine in a TR game. Like I said in one of my previous posts, I think the rape thing would be a good idea.

  19. #69
    "And suddenly, ALL of her clothes fall off!" Now who does that remind me of...

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  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by LARALOVERnr.1 View Post
    In other words; They'll probably try to rape her. I think it would be pretty realistic if there would be a scene where someone will try to rape her (like: push her on the ground, try to rip her clothes off, use vulgar words...)
    During the scene there could be a quicktime event like we saw in the demo, and in the end she could kick him off her and than there could be a fight in which the player fully controls her.
    And then what exactly happens when the player fails the QTE?

    I'm not sure I'm keen on this idea..... :s

    Quote Originally Posted by a big house View Post
    @Driber, I didn't mean it in an offensive way or anything, I was just commenting on what he had put, which to be fair was a valid point.
    I didn't read anything offensive in your post, a big house

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  21. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Driber View Post
    And then what exactly happens when the player fails the QTE?
    Good question!


    P.S. But... if Lara could have her say about this thread, she probably would say:

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  22. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by AnthonyP_88 View Post
    @sierra_xb: I don't understand it exactly. There will be more Tomb Raider Games in the future and the very first part is very important for all the future games. The first part can be responsible for Laras future character.
    this has been discussed quite a bit, but the general idea is that this new game is a complete reboot, so basically nothing of what we know about Lara's history from the previous 8 games will even exist. Lara's "future character" does not have to follow the details from the previous games, because they are being treated as though they never happened.

    Quote Originally Posted by jakobsen View Post
    I dont get it... I thoght TR9 is about Lara before she became Lara we know.

    Edit: I was mistaken.
    It is, but it will follow a different path, so you can't treat this game as though it is a TR1 prequel.

    Quote Originally Posted by LARALOVERnr.1 View Post
    ...Like Anthony mentioned, Lara is on an island full of dudes, and dudes want sex.

    You always see that when men get stuck together for a looooooooong time, they always find a way to have sex, wether it's solo or with other guys.
    But when a good-looking lady like Lara comes around and the dudes aren't really well-mannered, they might try to have sex with her in a way she doesn't agree with.

    In other words; They'll probably try to rape her. I think it would be pretty realistic if there would be a scene where someone will try to rape her (like: push her on the ground, try to rip her clothes off, use vulgar words...)
    During the scene there could be a quicktime event like we saw in the demo, and in the end she could kick him off her and than there could be a fight in which the player fully controls her.

    I think something like that would fit in with the rest of the game perfectly
    keep in mind that these are not "normal" guys on this island. Just because something like that might happen in a prison, doesn't mean the scenario works here as well. We don't even know for sure if all of the island's inhabitants are male, so we have no idea if they are all sexually "frustrated". Seriously, there are some things that just need to be left the hell alone, especially if it adds nothing to the game. Sorry, but this idea crosses the line for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by LadyRufina View Post
    I agree that sex would be fine in a TR game. Like I said in one of my previous posts, I think the rape thing would be a good idea.
    sure, but what if you are a female gamer who was also a rape victim in real life? would you REALLY want to see that reinacted on your game with your favorate heroine?
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  23. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Driber View Post
    And then what exactly happens when the player fails the QTE?

    I'm not sure I'm keen on this idea..... :s
    Nothing. I want it to be a quicktime event like the one where she had to pull the spike out of her thigh. It can't really be failed, but the player has to do something in order to make progress/survive.

    Something like; keep bashing B/O to kick him repeatedly, and than press A+X/A+Square to grab something and hit him with it to get him off of you. After this a short conversation beween Lara and the bad guy begins, and after that the boss battle starts.

    I'm thinking of the attempted-rape-scene as an introduction to a key-character/boss (assuming there will be any, ofcourse)

    I wouldn't want to see poor Lara get raped! Who the hell do you think I am???

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakobsen View Post
    P.S. But... if Lara could have her say about this thread, she probably would say:

    {vid}
    Hehe, I thought of that scene the instant I saw this thread

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  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by LARALOVERnr.1 View Post
    Nothing. I want it to be a quicktime event like the one where she had to pull the spike out of her thigh. It can't really be failed, but the player has to do something in order to make progress/survive.

    Something like; keep bashing B/O to kick him repeatedly, and than press A+X/A+Square to grab something and hit him with it to get him off of you. After this a short conversation beween Lara and the bad guy begins, and after that the boss battle starts.

    I'm thinking of the attempted-rape-scene as an introduction to a key-character/boss (assuming there will be any, ofcourse)

    I wouldn't want to see poor Lara get raped! Who the hell do you think I am???
    Well, you didn't explain what exactly would happen if the player fails the QTE.

    Something has to happen; the attacker wouldn't just stand there doing nothing waiting for you to push some buttons

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