Page 1 of 5 12345 Last

Thread: PLOTS & SECRETS / Conspiracy Theories - General Discussion

PLOTS & SECRETS / Conspiracy Theories - General Discussion

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    The highest ground...
    Posts
    23,047

    Lightbulb PLOTS & SECRETS / Conspiracy Theories - General Discussion

    Welcome. Believe it or not.... (pun intended ), this thread is to discuss the matter of conspiracy.

    Definition: "A conspiracy theory explains an event as being the result of an alleged plot by a covert group or organization or, more broadly, the idea that important political, social or economic events are the products of secret plots that are largely unknown to the general public."


    The dev team especially wants to know what the community thinks about conspiracies, those in Deus Ex (the whole series) and otherwise. We know Deus Ex is fiction but its foundations are rooted within real world conspiracies - the Illuminati, Bilderberg Group, FEMA, the existence of extra terrestrials, and so on.

    Obviously, none of us know what is fact and what is fiction... but it's fun to talk about nonetheless. A conspiracy could be so ludicrous that it might just be a smokescreen to hide the shocking truth!
    Discuss!


    A little something to add to the mix:

    "Those who believe that major world events result from planning are laughed at for believing in the 'conspiracy theory of history.' Of course, no one in this modern day and age really believes in the conspiracy theory of history - except those who have taken the time to study the subject. When you think about it, there are really only two theories of history. Either things happen by accident neither planned nor caused by anybody, or they happen because they are planned and somebody causes them to happen. In reality, it is the 'accidental theory of history' preached in the unhallowed Halls of Ivy which should be ridiculed. Otherwise, why does every recent administration make the same mistakes as the previous ones? Why do they repeat the errors of the past which produce inflation, depressions and war? ... If you believe it is all an accident or the result of mysterious and unexplainable tides of history, you will be regarded as an 'intellectual' who understands that we live in a complex world. If you believe that something like 32,496 consecutive coincidences over the past forty years stretches the law of averages a bit, you are a kook!"

    - Gary Allen, None Dare Call It Conspiracy, 1971
    signature image
    You are only minimally modified. Omar can help you correct this...

  2. #2
    I'm a firm believer in the notion of a high and mighty conglomerate controlling the world from secret. As I see it, the mere fact it could happen means it has to happen. It's a throne, bright and inviting and brimming with power. If that throne were empty, it could not be empty for long; someone must possess it. A power void of that magnitude is simply unthinkable in this world.

    Trying to prove it indisputably is a useless gesture. When discussing such things, if the pieces are there and the theory sound, it's more of an inevitability. It has to be true... there's no way for it not to be. Thrones are not meant to be empty amid a sea of greedy kings.
    signature image

  3. #3
    I really enjoy conspiracy theories in stories, and real-world ones can be very fun to research and/think about, but I don't believe in them. I suppose for me they just stretch plausibility a bit too much.
    However, as I said, I find them endlessly entertaining in fiction, as long as the authors aren't pushing it as 'this is the TRUTH!'. For me, conspiracy theories in stories are often best when the conspirators have easy to understand, base motives like power and greed, even if they do have a pretence about 'higher ideals'. When they are elaborations on more commonplace tales of corruption.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    3,916
    I'm very similar to Zoet: As a form of entertainment, conspiracy theories are awesome. In real life, I find the leap of faith needed to believe them often exceeds what I'm willing to give. A case in point would be the "Who Killed the Electric Car" movie. It's awesome to think there's some GM/Gas Company conglomerate that united to kill off the EV-1 in a shadowy move. It's far less interesting to find out that battery technology gave it an ultra-short lifespan, the relative expense of the technology made it unprofitable long-term and the obvious fact that GM immediately followed "killing the electric car" by... Releasing a mass-produced electric car. Same goes for most conspiracy theories I hear. Hearing the government conspire to cause 9/11 makes for a much more interesting story than sheer incompetence by the CIA/NSA.
    "Square Root of 912.04 is 30.2... It all seemed so harmless..."

  5. #5
    Otherwise, why does every recent administration make the same mistakes as the previous ones? Why do they repeat the errors of the past which produce inflation, depressions and war?
    Because they are incompetent/ignorant/stupid/dogmatic/and all the other 30 000 possible reason, that are far more plausable, than a conspiracy for world domination.

  6. #6
    Originally Posted by Romeo
    I'm very similar to Zoet: As a form of entertainment, conspiracy theories are awesome. In real life, I find the leap of faith needed to believe them often exceeds what I'm willing to give. A case in point would be the "Who Killed the Electric Car" movie. It's awesome to think there's some GM/Gas Company conglomerate that united to kill off the EV-1 in a shadowy move. It's far less interesting to find out that battery technology gave it an ultra-short lifespan, the relative expense of the technology made it unprofitable long-term and the obvious fact that GM immediately followed "killing the electric car" by... Releasing a mass-produced electric car. Same goes for most conspiracy theories I hear. Hearing the government conspire to cause 9/11 makes for a much more interesting story than sheer incompetence by the CIA/NSA.
    I agree with a lot of what you're saying.

    Only I still believe the shadowy forces are there attempting to move the world their way. I think it's foolish to believe The Throne is capable of controlling everything, perfectly according to plan, just as I believe it's naïve to suggest The Throne empty and powerless.

    To imagine the conspiracy improbable is to imagine ambition and greed don't exist. We know they do exist in man's heart. Therefore we can infer someone, or a group of someones, has indeed taken that Throne and is attempting to play the game.

    How much control they have, what they're actually responsible for, and how capable they are is the only question on the table as far as I'm concerned.
    signature image

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    3,916
    Originally Posted by Pinky_Powers
    I agree with a lot of what you're saying.

    Only I still believe the shadowy forces are there attempting to move the world their way. I think it's foolish to believe The Throne is capable of controlling everything, perfectly according to plan, just as I believe it's naïve to suggest The Throne empty and powerless.

    To imagine the conspiracy improbable is to imagine ambition and greed don't exist. We know they do exist in man's heart. Therefore we can infer someone, or a group of someones, has indeed taken that Throne and is attempting to play the game.

    How much control they have, what they're actually responsible for, and how capable they are is the only question on the table as far as I'm concerned.
    Actually, I don't believe a disbelief in conspiracy theories and that belief are mutually exclusive ideologies. Personally, I'm well aware that humanity's fate is steered by a few individuals. However I don't believe it's a conspiracy - we've instilled this power unto those people, be by votes, or by simply handing them enough money to allocate them enough pull to get what they want. A choice example of this would be the american mint. The government essentially handed a private company the keys to the american economy. A ton of power, enough to control a large chunk of the global economy. And yet, hardly a conspiracy - the information is available to anyone who wants to look it up.
    "Square Root of 912.04 is 30.2... It all seemed so harmless..."

  8. #8
    Originally Posted by Romeo
    Actually, I don't believe a disbelief in conspiracy theories and that belief are mutually exclusive ideologies....
    I really offended a conspiracy theorist classmate at uni when I wanted to have a conversation with him about them. I don't think he could understand that I wasn't mocking him, I was just interested from the opposite direction (although he did believe 100% that the moon landing was faked)!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    3,916
    Originally Posted by Zoet
    I really offended a conspiracy theorist classmate at uni when I wanted to have a conversation with him about them. I don't think he could understand that I wasn't mocking him, I was just interested from the opposite direction (although he did believe 100% that the moon landing was faked)!
    lol

    I love it. "You don't agree with my point to the letter?" HOW DARE YOU.
    "Square Root of 912.04 is 30.2... It all seemed so harmless..."

  10. #10
    Originally Posted by Romeo
    Actually, I don't believe a disbelief in conspiracy theories and that belief are mutually exclusive ideologies. Personally, I'm well aware that humanity's fate is steered by a few individuals. However I don't believe it's a conspiracy - we've instilled this power unto those people, be by votes, or by simply handing them enough money to allocate them enough pull to get what they want.
    So you have no problem with, for example, the G20 summit? Corporations can send their big-wigs in to curry favour with world leaders, but the public gets locked out by fences, barricades, and heavily-armed security. Handing money over (often indirectly) to a large corporation, or banking with a major bank, isn't exactly a rubber stamp on them wielding immense influence over the policy-making process. Personally, I'd love some more transparency. Shine a spotlight on the rats, and get people informed, in the hopes they can participate. Groups like Wikileaks are doing great work.


    Originally Posted by Romeo
    A choice example of this would be the american mint. The government essentially handed a private company the keys to the american economy. A ton of power, enough to control a large chunk of the global economy. And yet, hardly a conspiracy - the information is available to anyone who wants to look it up.
    The Federal Reserve's books weren't audited until the likes of Ron Paul, Alan Grayson and (though he neutered the legislation) Bernie Sanders pushed hard. Information on the Fed's activities has been very limited. They had decades to basically do as they please, without having to worry about little things like oversight and accountability. The hearings, where Bernanke, Greenspan, etc. would head to Washington and spout garbage before a committee, were a trite show at best. I tip my hat to the Fed and its member banks, they did a great job of swindling people, then claiming they are trying to help.

    EDIT: At 9pm my time, (about 100min from now) David Icke will be appearing on (the hilarious) John Safran's radio show. He is bound to say something relevant to this thread's topic: http://www.abc.net.au/triplej/safran/

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    3,916
    Originally Posted by Kvltism
    So you have no problem with, for example, the G20 summit? Corporations can send their big-wigs in to curry favour with world leaders, but the public gets locked out by fences, barricades, and heavily-armed security. Handing money over (often indirectly) to a large corporation, or banking with a major bank, isn't exactly a rubber stamp on them wielding immense influence over the policy-making process. Personally, I'd love some more transparency. Shine a spotlight on the rats, and get people informed, in the hopes they can participate. Groups like Wikileaks are doing great work.




    The Federal Reserve's books weren't audited until the likes of Ron Paul, Alan Grayson and (though he neutered the legislation) Bernie Sanders pushed hard. Information on the Fed's activities has been very limited. They had decades to basically do as they please, without having to worry about little things like oversight and accountability. The hearings, where Bernanke, Greenspan, etc. would head to Washington and spout garbage before a committee, were a trite show at best. I tip my hat to the Fed and its member banks, they did a great job of swindling people, then claiming they are trying to help.

    EDIT: At 9pm my time, (about 100min from now) David Icke will be appearing on (the hilarious) John Safran's radio show. He is bound to say something relevant to this thread's topic: http://www.abc.net.au/triplej/safran/
    Woah now, down boy. Anyways, no, I have absolute no issue with the G20 summit. As I just stated, corperations have substantial pull as a result of the capitalist system. Of course they're to be included in high-value decisions. There's also the factor of fiscal/industrial expertise. You want to know how to improve your country's economy? Defer to someone who actively turns a profit entrenched in the economy. You don't need every Tom, Dick and Sally in attendence. For example, were you to hold a conference on how to improve Dodge vehicles, you wouldn't invite everyone off the street. You'd have the higher-ups (G20 leaders), accountants (Bankers) and mechanics (Industrial). Not to mention the obvious security issues with doing so (The fact I have to bring that up is already troubling to your point). Now, to adress your earlier point, do I like them having that much pull? Not especially. But it's the people's fault. They've been the ones buying and funding these people. So to blame it on the companies screams hypocrisy.

    Riiiiight. Well, beyond the very obivous issue here - notably, the fact you didn't actually address the point I made - there's several other flaws in your argumet. First off, most countries don't release audit results to the public (Such as the countries located directly above and below America). Secondly, the Federal Reserve doesn't stand to make money off "swindling people". If those people become too poor, they fall in to lower tax brackets, which means they pay less overall in taxes - which is where the Federal Reserve gets its money back (Government). They also might not be able to afford a mortgage (Thus eliminating funds from standard, private banks) or have enough money to support the economy by buying (Which also translates in to less taxes, and thus, money for them). No, you're arguing for a point that simply doesn't make sense. Frankly, the Federal Reserve would love people to be making alot, and spending every dime back in to the economy - that would net them the biggest return.
    "Square Root of 912.04 is 30.2... It all seemed so harmless..."

  12. #12
    A few theories might seem kind of plausible, but stuff like the moon landing being faked to get the US government popularity? Well I find it hard to believe in that somehow. There are some that are... interesting to ponder, like aliens.
    Bob page: Your too late, I am already more than human!
    JC: Does that mean I don't get the job?

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    3,916
    Originally Posted by the_guy
    A few theories might seem kind of plausible, but stuff like the moon landing being faked to get the US government popularity? Well I find it hard to believe in that somehow. There are some that are... interesting to ponder, like aliens.
    I do believe in aliens; I do not believe humanity has ever made contact with any though. Universe is just too damn big to be devoid of life everywhere except our small little speck called Earth.
    "Square Root of 912.04 is 30.2... It all seemed so harmless..."

  14. #14
    Originally Posted by Romeo
    I do believe in aliens; I do not believe humanity has ever made contact with any though. Universe is just too damn big to be devoid of life everywhere except our small little speck called Earth.
    It's a conspiracy that people believe the universe is big at all. It's only as big as our solar system, but the outer walls are painted and rigged for the illusion that it just keeps going and going. Ancient Greek astronauts began the conspiracy, and it's been continued by every authority throughout the ages. It's hard to explain why, but it's got something to do with retaining freshness in our dairy products.
    signature image

  15. #15
    I just have to say...The Denver airport gives me the creeps. I didn't believe in the conspiracy theories until I went there...and...

    o_O

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    3,916
    Originally Posted by Pinky_Powers
    It's a conspiracy that people believe the universe is big at all. It's only as big as our solar system, but the outer walls are painted and rigged for the illusion that it just keeps going and going. Ancient Greek astronauts began the conspiracy, and it's been continued by every authority throughout the ages. It's hard to explain why, but it's got something to do with retaining freshness in our dairy products.
    You are easily one of the best commenters on these forums.
    Originally Posted by Coyotegrey
    I just have to say...The Denver airport gives me the creeps. I didn't believe in the conspiracy theories until I went there...and...

    o_O
    I've never been, but that's because because I avoid Colorado and people with pet rabbits (Unrelated).
    "Square Root of 912.04 is 30.2... It all seemed so harmless..."

  17. #17
    It is hard not to believe in some of the theories...Especially the "conspiracy theory of history" and that everything in some form or another is planned and there's no such thing as coincidence when the evidence of the truth is readily available if you look.It is so hard to deny.

    It looks to me that more and more people are looking past the labels of crazy theories and are waking up to the real reality that behind every lie...lies the truth

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    3
    The history old conspiracy is about to (and already has, if you know what to look for) reveal itself. If you want to know who is behind the unveiling, look to Jay Z, Niki Minaj, etc. If you want more information, videos, etc., let me know. While there is some theories that are quite out there, the important aspects are not. New World Order, theosophy, world-wide economic collapse, American martial law, these things will happen. The Illuminati has finally revealed itself, and they are the ones that tie it all together.

    http://armageddonconspiracy.co.uk/

    Guard your hearts.

    Khaballah, Annunaki, Nephilim, New World Order, Masons, Illuminati, Bilderburg, Skull and Bones, Bohemian Grove, 9/11, Illuminati Card Game, Pineal Gland, 11/11/11,Lucifarian Church, reptilians, MK Ultra, aliens, blood sacrifices, Katy Perry, Lady Gaga, Jay Z, Niki Manaj, Sasha Fierce, Bermuda Triangle, theosophy, Alister Crowley, stargates, HAARP, earth grid, to name just a FEW.

    I'll just leave these here

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFCGD...ure=plpp_video

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szwvj...ure=plpp_video

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElrXr...ure=plpp_video

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wA6yy...ure=plpp_video

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0lio...ure=plpp_video

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ze1wy...ure=plpp_video

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    8
    double post!

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    3

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    8
    My favorite conspiracy theory is actually the one where the CIA is actually behind the heroin trade in Afghanistan and that one to me actually has legs because it makes so much sense. Say for example that you have secret funds given to you by a black book project. The senate gives you money but can still keeps tabs on you and have a rough idea of your operational costs just because of the size of the budget they give you.

    How do you defeat that and become less dependent on an ever changing senate that may or may not be prepared to give you money next year? The answer is investing in the largest profit venture around: the illegal drug trade. That way the profits you actually end up making becomes a part of your organization's operational cost thereby giving you capabilities beyond what your enemies expect.

    As an extra bonus you also gain a secondary network of enforcers, informants, snitches that don't even know that they are assets to a government agency and through the drugs the CIA would be given a way to flip enemy agents or their loved ones. All you need to do is hook them on the drugs and they will be willing to sell their mothers. Having control of the drug trade also allows you the capacity to frame and blackmail anyone you want by planting evidence of your own manufacture or involving them in your business.

    As with everything with the CIA it's proxies within proxies within proxies. But I ask you this: wouldn't it benefit them more to control the problem and make it act on their behalf than try to stomp it out? On an even more insidious level, wouldn't they actually be able to target any social subgroups they want just by increasing the sales effort to those groups.

    And what's even better is that is that it explains why the US has such an interest in subverting the Middle east. It's because that there are such rigid moral guidelines inherent to extremist Islamic sects that they can't get to them using the whole money/sex/power/drugs that work on the rest because if nothing else the sects think they have the moral higher ground and act with, in their view, piety. Thus the CIA has a slippery grasp on extremist sect.

    So keep that possibility in mind if you want to scare yourself: every Latin American Narcotrafficante attack that beheads people, every drug dealing inner city street gang that does drive bys, every afghan poppy producing warlord could unknowingly be working for the CIA and unknowingly be performing shadow ops for them.

  22. #22
    I've always believed that not only are there conspiracies (e.g. JFK) but also counter-conspiracies to cover over or distort what's really going on. For example, the rise in UFO sightings in the 1950s and 1960s were attributed to aliens rather than the simpler and more logical explanation that they were experimental aircraft flown by humans. Another would be the no-plane 9/11 theory. It's completely insane to think that what crashed into the Twin Towers weren't 767s despite all the video evidence and eye-witness accounts to the contrary, not to mention the missing (i.e. dead) passengers, yet some people still believe in it.

    You've got to think why someone would come up with such wild theories. It's like they want to discredit the entire movement.

  23. #23
    Snoop knows whats up...Be warned link contains some language that may be offensive to some.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLn1SsFX1ms

  24. #24
    I've had some friends that were all into the Black Helicopter/UN/Bildeberg stuff, but it all seems way to far fetched for me. I always tell them "I'm more worried about what the government is doing in plain sight than what they are doing in secret," though the secrecy in which the Fed operates is a bit worrisome. However, this does not mean that there aren't any conspiracies. I just think that there are competing conspiracies, and none of them are strong enough to dominate the globe, because new powers always arise that nobody ever saw coming.

  25. #25
    Well, I was a big x-files fanatic as a kid/college student, so I obviously like them in my fiction. I like the way they were woven together in Deus Ex (though they may have gone a bit too kitchen sink with it), have so far loved the way the DXHR team handled it (down to the employees e-mail's re the hand holding the globe ), but wouldn't mind seeing an un-nuked area 51 at some point in the future, greys, crashed ufos and all.

Page 1 of 5 12345 Last