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Thread: Deus Ex Ironsight Misalignment on MOST guns!

Deus Ex Ironsight Misalignment on MOST guns!

  1. #26
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    I find this happen only when you put the laser targeting mod on the guns. I loaded a save without the laser sights on the weapons and the bullets land exactly on the tip of the iron sights. I also used the laser mod on the sniper rifle and I had to aim above someone's head to head shot them while scoped in. Without the laser, the bullet will hit exactly at the cross hair of the scope.

  2. #27
    the guy in the video should really switch his FOV back to 75.

    It seriously messes up the gun models

  3. #28
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    Originally Posted by KIRA829
    I find this happen only when you put the laser targeting mod on the guns. I loaded a save without the laser sights on the weapons and the bullets land exactly on the tip of the iron sights. I also used the laser mod on the sniper rifle and I had to aim above someone's head to head shot them while scoped in. Without the laser, the bullet will hit exactly at the cross hair of the scope.
    From my experience... this guy is exactly right.

    The whole point of the laser sight in the game is so that you'll know exactly where the bullet will hit when you fire around cover or from the hip.

    To be perfectly honest, I think you (the OP) is overthinking this waaaay too much. I've been using firearms for over ten years and I've also put thousands of rounds down range, and I still find this a completely pointless reason to stop purchasing games from a company.

    It's like saying "If Eidos doesn't stop creating such unrealistic worlds for their fictional video games, I'm going to stop buying them. Have you seen Eliza's clothes? PUH-LEEZE!"


  4. #29
    Originally Posted by KIRA829
    I find this happen only when you put the laser targeting mod on the guns. I loaded a save without the laser sights on the weapons and the bullets land exactly on the tip of the iron sights. I also used the laser mod on the sniper rifle and I had to aim above someone's head to head shot them while scoped in. Without the laser, the bullet will hit exactly at the cross hair of the scope.
    True. At least for the Combat Rifle. In the Intro Mission you get the CR with the Laser Sight. Accordingly all bullets land where the laser points, even when you're looking through the Iron Sights. Just try shooting at a wall first with the Laser Pointer (the bullet will hit exactly where the laser pointed), then, without moving or changing where you aim, look through the Iron Sights and fire again (the bullet will hit somewhere you can't see it), then exit the Iron Sights and you will see that the Laser again points exactly at what will now be two very closely grouped bullet holes. In the next mission you get the standard CR if you ask for it, and all bullets land exactly where they should according to the Iron Sights (the 10mm Handgun and the Machine Pistol, too for that matter).

    Huge Flaw. This is actually really embarrassing for the devs. They have to fix this. Quickly. There's really no excuse for this.

  5. #30
    Originally Posted by Skillet
    From my experience... this guy is exactly right.

    The whole point of the laser sight in the game is so that you'll know exactly where the bullet will hit when you fire around cover or from the hip.

    To be perfectly honest, I think you (the OP) is overthinking this waaaay too much. I've been using firearms for over ten years and I've also put thousands of rounds down range, and I still find this a completely pointless reason to stop purchasing games from a company.

    It's like saying "If Eidos doesn't stop creating such unrealistic worlds for their fictional video games, I'm going to stop buying them. Have you seen Eliza's clothes? PUH-LEEZE!"

    Whether or not he's "over-thinking" it, there is simply no excuse for letting the laser-sight targeting override the Iron Sights. Which is exactly what happens here: It's not "The Laser points where the bullets will fly" but "the bullets will fly where the laser points, even if you aim down the Iron Sights and can't really see the laser". So what, I have to choose between the Laser Sight or the Iron Sights? I can't have both? How exactly does that go with any semblance of either reality or video game logic?

    This has to be fixed. It's preposterously obvious and hugely detrimental to the game. It's in the very first mission you play, the very first taste of combat you get is broken, and I've known people to put down games for much less. It's something that I might even consider a game breaker, and it does not speak well of both Eidos and its QA/game testers. No matter who you blame, something like this should never get past the beta-testing stage.

  6. #31
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    Originally Posted by P4NCH0theD0G
    Whether or not he's "over-thinking" it, there is simply no excuse for letting the laser-sight targeting override the Iron Sights. Which is exactly what happens here: It's not "The Laser points where the bullets will fly" but "the bullets will fly where the laser points, even if you aim down the Iron Sights and can't really see the laser". So what, I have to choose between the Laser Sight or the Iron Sights? I can't have both? How exactly does that go with any semblance of either reality or video game logic?

    This has to be fixed. It's preposterously obvious and hugely detrimental to the game. It's in the very first mission you play, the very first taste of combat you get is broken, and I've known people to put down games for much less. It's something that I might even consider a game breaker, and it does not speak well of both Eidos and its QA/game testers. No matter who you blame, something like this should never get past the beta-testing stage.
    When it comes to the combat rifle or the 10mm, it doesn't matter THAT much. At least not as much as you claim it does. It's off by a few centimeters at most. I still manage to score headshots whether I aim down the sights with those weapons or not. Saying that it breaks the game is a gross overstatement. You might as well say that the lack of iron sights at all on the Heavy Rifle breaks the game.

    Now the Revolver.... that's something to complain about.

  7. #32
    I'm sorry, but I have to work around an obvious shortcoming in a product that I paid good money for? A product that presumably has gone through thousands of hours of testing and testing and more testing? I don't expect the world or a perfect game, but this is something so incredibly obvious, it becomes a matter of principle.

    Just go ahead, start a new game, and when you get the CR, fire a few shots at a wall in front of you. When the wall is less than 5 yards away, you CAN'T EVEN SEE the bullet holes you make when aiming down the Iron Sights. It means that if I want to head-shot someone in that distance I have to aim so far above his head that I CANNOT SEE his head anymore.

    As to still getting head-shots, you're sure that's not the recoil and barrel rising? Because the second or third shot from the CR will pretty much hit where your Iron Sights aim. But again, that's a work around that I just shouldn't be forced to.

    And the argument with the Heavy Rifle is actually supporting my point: My gun has Iron Sights. When I aim down these Iron Sights I expect my gun to shoot where I aim with my Iron Sights. If it doesn't shoot where I aim with my Iron Sights my gun is broken. But if my gun doesn't have Iron Sights there's no problem.

    Now, I could "understand" things like a general misalignment of certain guns, or bullet drop, or a glitch or something that just causes the aim to be off. But this isn't any of these things. It's nothing hidden. It's not a complicated, unexplainable bug that can only be rectified by going through millions of lines of code with a fine-toothed comb. It's one targeting mechanic overriding another for no good reason.

    It simply happens because someone forgot to put a line of code into the game that says: "If ADS=true : Laser Sight = False", which means "When aiming down the Iron Sights, the Laser Sight targeting is switched off." That is all.

    The fact that this "problem" is painfully obvious in the very first mission only adds insult to injury.

    I'm sorry if I go off at this, but this is really something that goes against my very strong feelings of professional pride. Is the game still playable: Yes, sure. I like it. But it is a problem that just shouldn't be there.

  8. #33
    So this is straight-up just a little bug that occurs due to the laser sight upgrade only. Should be easy to fix...

  9. #34
    You guys are completely right, you shouldn't have to ignore it or deal with it.

  10. #35
    This forum is full of whiners, but then again I'd expect the people who are satisfied with the game to be playing it or possibly replaying it. Aim for the head and you will hit the neck or above, and still land a headshot, it's really that simple. The bullet might hit lower than expected but it still goes in a horizontal line, there is no bullet drop on pistols in this game.

  11. #36
    Originally Posted by ocstew
    This forum is full of whiners, but then again I'd expect the people who are satisfied with the game to be playing it or possibly replaying it. Aim for the head and you will hit the neck or above, and still land a headshot, it's really that simple. The bullet might hit lower than expected but it still goes in a horizontal line, there is no bullet drop on pistols in this game.
    The revolver shoots high and to the left in the video, so that's not really true.

  12. #37
    Despite it being unrealistic its hardly a game-breaker and this is definitely an overreaction. If you're not prepared to face bugs, which exist in ALL games, many of which will be fixed, then you can just go away and miss out on the fun that you'll get from the rest of the 99.9% of the game.

    Its fine to argue for it to be fixed but to say that you'll never ever buy a game from the company just because of this tiny bug is just tantrum-driven overreaction. You deserve to miss out on their games for such disproportionate judgement.

    Evan

  13. #38
    Originally Posted by ocstew
    This forum is full of whiners, but then again I'd expect the people who are satisfied with the game to be playing it or possibly replaying it. Aim for the head and you will hit the neck or above, and still land a headshot, it's really that simple. The bullet might hit lower than expected but it still goes in a horizontal line, there is no bullet drop on pistols in this game.
    If I expect a venerated and experienced game developer and its publisher to make sure that such very annoying and painfully obvious issues are not present in their own multi-million-dollar product, especially not something that becomes apparent in the very first mission; if I expect the QA department, as well as all the other people, whose only job it is to play-test the game to do their jobs properly; if I expect to find the standard that the developers by all public accounts hold themselves to in the game I purchased, I'm a "whiner"? Fine, then so I am. And I'll keep whining.

    Originally Posted by Evanovic
    Despite it being unrealistic its hardly a game-breaker and this is definitely an overreaction. If you're not prepared to face bugs, which exist in ALL games, many of which will be fixed, then you can just go away and miss out on the fun that you'll get from the rest of the 99.9% of the game.

    Its fine to argue for it to be fixed but to say that you'll never ever buy a game from the company just because of this tiny bug is just tantrum-driven overreaction. You deserve to miss out on their games for such disproportionate judgement.

    Evan
    This is NOT a BUG in the traditional sense. It's a flaw, an obvious shortcoming that can be linked to one very specific reason, not some mysterious happenstance that nobody knows why it happens. It is a very basic, very obvious malfunction, a result of seemingly lacking diligence: The Laser Sight overrides the Iron Sights when it is equipped. To find things like that is the job of a whole department in any game development and publishing house. By extension this throws a very bad light on the whole product: "They didn't care enough to fix something so basic and obvious, what else will there be waiting for me later on?"
    You are probably right, it is an over-reaction. But if you had been waiting for a game for months, maybe even years, you read the high praise in the reviews (where nobody mentioned this, btw) and get even more excited, then in the first mission you have to find out that your gun doesn't shoot where you aim it. So you restart, reinstall, do everything you can but the problem still persists. A lot of people might already put down their controller and think about selling it, by now. Others play on, and after a while they find out what the reason is: Not a mysterious line of code or a miniscule flaw in the programming or a chain reaction of things nobody could possibly have known would happen. No, what it seems like is either lazy programming or extremely lazy game testing, since the problem can be specifically linked to one very common condition, every time all the time. And I can fully understand how someone would get very, very angry at that point.

    Every game has bugs. But there is a whole department of people playing and testing the game for up to four months before release, and something obvious like this should never ever be allowed to go past the testing stage. Never. Even if the reason for the misalignment wasn't so painfully obvious, it should never have happened.
    This is still a shooter. Not being able to shoot where you aim is inexcusable.

    Just to maybe put it into a different tack:

    You play a racing game. In that game you buy and apply one of three available steering upgrades for your car. But with the new upgrade the car veers to the left when you drive in First-Person mode. If you drive in 3rd Person mode, everything is fine. If you disable the upgrade the car drives straight again, even in First Person. With the upgrade you can't drive in a straight line. The upgrade breaks your First Person driving experience. Yet you would like to drive in First Person. But you can't. Not with the upgrade.

    Wouldn't you be angry about that?

  14. #39
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    Originally Posted by P4NCH0theD0G
    Just to maybe put it into a different tack:

    You play a racing game. In that game you buy and apply one of three available steering upgrades for your car. But with the new upgrade the car veers to the left when you drive in First-Person mode. If you drive in 3rd Person mode, everything is fine. If you disable the upgrade the car drives straight again, even in First Person. With the upgrade you can't drive in a straight line. The upgrade breaks your First Person driving experience. Yet you would like to drive in First Person. But you can't. Not with the upgrade.

    Wouldn't you be angry about that?
    By all means man, THIS is the essence of my discontent! Maybe I went about it harshly, and rather crude - but when I play a game where one of the primary methods of combat is shooting a gun, I want that gun to work like I would think it should.

    See past the fact that I might be nitpicky, especially after having shot so much in my own life, guns are something I'm passionate about - so when they don't follow basic protocol in games, I get frustrated. See why I hate Call of Duty... under almost no circumstance should a 9mm round ever approach the stopping power and range of a 7.62x39 or a .30-06.

  15. #40
    did this ever get fixed?

    I played through this game twice and never noticed this, yet on my 3rd playthrough now i'm using the revolver finally, and holy cow is that one off.

  16. #41
    For the record, this is one of those bugs that never got fixed that I was complaining about when EM released the second of all two updates they put out for the game, and it's one that effects EVERYBODY, not just a small segment of the people playing the game.
    Speed up the accelerating returns, 'cause carbon doesn’t work, I want to evolve and operate at terahertz.

  17. #42
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    Guys, the "iron sights shoot high" and "laser sight shoots low" have been documented extensively in the Sniper Rifle thread. It is a case of the iron sights being above the barrel a few inches, meaning at close range they can be quite far off. The laser sight has the precise bullet trajectory, but when using the iron sights, you need to aim "above" where you normally would, as the laser sights effectively replace the bullet's hitbox.

    And yes VectorM, I'm with you.
    "Square Root of 912.04 is 30.2... It all seemed so harmless..."

  18. #43
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    VectorM lives?

    (click image to enlarge)

  19. #44
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    I assume so, unless he got a little too personal with a moving bus.
    "Square Root of 912.04 is 30.2... It all seemed so harmless..."

  20. #45
    Originally Posted by Romeo
    Guys, the "iron sights shoot high" and "laser sight shoots low" have been documented extensively in the Sniper Rifle thread. It is a case of the iron sights being above the barrel a few inches, meaning at close range they can be quite far off. The laser sight has the precise bullet trajectory, but when using the iron sights, you need to aim "above" where you normally would, as the laser sights effectively replace the bullet's hitbox.

    And yes VectorM, I'm with you.
    I hadn't notice it with other guns, but wasn't using the revolver until this playthrough--and it is definitely off in a different way (though apparently still due to the laser mod)... see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOk6dz68P9Y

    I guess i can learn to shoot low and to the right, or just use the laser, but if it were my gun i'd have that sight aligned in a jiffy.

  21. #46
    Originally Posted by JCpie
    VectorM lives?
    I sure hope so.

    I guess i can learn to shoot low and to the right, or just use the laser, but if it were my gun i'd have that sight aligned in a jiffy
    Honestly, with the revolver you don't really need to aim for headshots as much. And with the explosive rounds, the gun is pretty much LOLZIMBA, no matter where you shoot people, so it wasn't something that I ever noticed. I have this weird impression, that this is some leftover from a half-assed bullet trajectory system they had in place. It always seemed kinda weird to me that the tranq rifle is the only weapon where that is a thing to be considered. Then again, the crossbow in DX1 was the same, so I guess it's alright.

  22. #47
    Well,just found this thread. And yeah,i also thought how poorly implemented the ironsights are.
    It just hit me because i always play without crosshairs and shoot from the hip or use the
    ironsights in fps. My first thought was . How could they mess this up . Not enough
    betattesting i suppose or just another try to get the player playing stealty....

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