Thread: Other Games. Playing, Getting & Tribute - All Discussion thread

Other Games. Playing, Getting & Tribute - All Discussion thread

  1. #9251
    RoN is probably my favourite large scale RTS. I prefer it over AoE because the economic system is developed in such a way that it doesn't have to be babysat, enabling me to concentrate on battle tactics. Resources don't diminish and farms don't have to be re-purchased so you can set a peasant to work and forget about them until they're attacked or you need to readjust your resource priorities.

    The game was designed by Brian Reynolds who is the same guy who made Colonization, Civilization 2, Alpha Centauri, and the AoE3 asian expansion. The guy really knows how to make strategy games that are deep without being overcomplicated. One of the things I love about RoN is how each faction has significant bonuses to make them feel really unique.

    So, anyway, if you haven't played the erstwhile sequel, Rise of Legends, I would check it out. It isn't as "good" as RoN in that it lacks randomly generated maps, cities can't be free placed but must be built on pre-determined nodes, and the factions, while unique, are narrowed down to three options. Nevertheless, I found it still fun to play. I especially liked how they implemented the campaign mode, which felt like my choices made a difference rather than just a series of skirmish maps tied together.

    xaduha2 recommends Stronghold. While it's much smaller in scope than RoN, it's still an interesting RTS with strong economic elements. One of the interesting things about it is that you kind of get three games in one: a castle builder, a castle destroyer, and (in Stronghold Crusader) a skirmish mode that combines the two. So if you want to play the game as a medieval city builder, you can do that. If you want to skip the economic aspect of the game and focus solely on combat, you can do that. If you get Crusader, I'd advice you to play the "classic" game rather than the "extreme" version that GOG installs by default. It's just ridiculously frantic and intended for veteran players who want an additional challenge.

    The Anno series isn't a bad choice but, as sonicsidewinder points out, it's a better city builder than RTS. And even as a city builder, there are more interesting choices available. The resource transportation system felt a little clunky and unforgiving to me. I think its main claim to fame is as a city builder/RTS hybrid.

    Now since I've never played an RTS I like more than RoN so it'd hard for me to recommend one. Well, I like Demigod but that's really MOBA. But as for strategy games in general, another of my all-time favourites is Crusader Kings and it's sequel, CK2. What's unique about CK is that you're not playing as a nation or ideological faction. You're playing as a medieval dynasty. This adds another element to gameplay so that it's possible to military conquer the world but then lose the game because you didn't secure the succession on your character's death. It's a strategy game with RPG elements, really.

    I know that Rome: Total War also had a dynasty feature but CK did it first and does it better. The diplomacy is very rich in accordance to all of the feudal ties and obligations. The game likes to throw curve balls at you and in a certain respect it's more about surviving than it is about winning. In one game I played I was the Byzantine Emperor. The Duchy of Flanders had a dispute with one of my barons and declared war on them. This prompted my baron's duke to declare war on Flanders. Then the King of France, who was Flander's liege, declared war on my Duke. Now I was in a position where I had to weigh whether I wanted to go to war with the Kingdom of France to protect my Duke or leave him in the wind to ensure the safety of my other holdings. So there's a feedback loop built in so that the more you succeed, the more challenged you face.

    This is an after-action report of one of my most successful successful rulers. I've hidden it in a spoiler tag to minimize the wall of text. I just want to point out that everything I describe in the game actually happened and derived from game mechanics. I also briefly describe a friend's experience (we were playing multiplayer at the time) to show how diplomacy is just as valid an beneficial a strategy as warfare.


  2. #9252
    Originally Posted by ColBashar
    I never had a CKII game that deep and layered haha. But then again, I never gave it as much time as would be necessary.

    I enjoyed the game a lot for what I played. Got a bit turned off by the 'dlc mentality'.

    ---

    On subject of RTS's though, I got Homeworld Cataclysm in the mail this week. I'm raring to go.

    After completing Homeworld, I HAD to have it.

    The Mining vessel Kuun-Lan, is ready... as am I...
    Play games for the story

  3. #9253
    Fun fact: Kun Lan is the name of the bad guy from the Suda51 game, Killer7.
    Speed up the accelerating returns, 'cause carbon doesn’t work, I want to evolve and operate at terahertz.

  4. #9254
    Originally Posted by Shralla
    Fun fact: Kun Lan is the name of the bad guy from the Suda51 game, Killer7.
    *In the Know-Lad*

    AYYYEEE!
    Play games for the story

  5. #9255
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    Originally Posted by Sotsiak91
    I don't know if anyone is into strategy games, but yesterday I found Rise of Nations hidden in a dusty old drawer, last time I played it was oh many years ago, so for the sake of nostalgia I installed it. Cool game but I noticed I like more the resource-gathering phase of the game than the combat one. I also have tried Empire Earth which was similar to RoN. I have a question, is there a game similar to these, though I can focus more on resource gathering, but still have some combat???
    Google "German Economic strategies". My mind's drawing a blank right now on names.
    These are more along the lines of Settlers games, though--as in, combat is very symbolic and almost non-existant.

  6. #9256
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    Visits the forum once every six months.

  7. #9257
    I'm properly in love with Elizabeth in Bioshock Infinite.

    Still very early, but we've escaped Song Bird and she's coming to terms with her situation. I find it surprisingly easy to like her and want to protect her.

    And she gives you monies!
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  8. #9258
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    Originally Posted by Pinky_Powers
    I'm properly in love with Elizabeth in Bioshock Infinite.

    Still very early, but we've escaped Song Bird and she's coming to terms with her situation. I find it surprisingly easy to like her and want to protect her.

    And she gives you monies!
    Just wait till she starts giving you bath salts.

  9. #9259
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    Originally Posted by Vallux
    Just wait till she starts giving you bath salts.
    I loved loved loved that aspect. We need to add that in more games. No more regenerating health in DX, Elizabeth should just throw you health kits.

  10. #9260
    It's almost like everybody's playing Half-Life 2 for the first time again. Too bad it's literally 9 years later and it doesn't sound like anything has REALLY improved since then.
    Speed up the accelerating returns, 'cause carbon doesn’t work, I want to evolve and operate at terahertz.

  11. #9261
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    Originally Posted by nomotog
    I loved loved loved that aspect. We need to add that in more games. No more regenerating health in DX, Elizabeth should just throw you health kits.
    I'm glad that having Elizabeth tag along doesn't just become one massive escort mission but doesn't the fact that she is invulnerable undermine the idea that you are meant to be protecting her?

  12. #9262
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    Elizabeth is not anything special when it comes to partner AI. Sure she looks around and reacts to many more objects in the background and situations than usual but it's not as groundbreaking as the devs would have you believe earlier. She was underutilized as far as gameplay, I mean earlier gameplay footage made it look like she was actually going to participate in the battles but I guess not...


    Not to mention that immersion-breaking aspect of it all as she has her scripted lines towards certain actions even when the mood is not right for it. Her and Booker will get into huge arguments or something awful will happen but then, "Look Booker, a lockpick!".

    You can only do so much with it I suppose.

  13. #9263
    The thing is, Elizabeth is neither a partner nor an AI, really. She's just an extention of the player-character, albeit one abstracted as an NPC. I think Nomotog hit the nail on the head. Her function as a game mechanic is as a safety net. If you're running low on a resource, she periodically restores it. She's regenerating ammo, money, health, and mana all in one. Oh, and she's your lockpick tool to boot.

    So in that respect I think she's well executed in the game. I especially liked how she would give you ammo by tossing you a fully loaded version of whatever weapon you were wielding. Those segments of the game where you are separated from Elizabeth reminded me a little of the Namir boss fight in Human Revolution if you got your augmentations shut off, because that really described Elizabeth's role in Infinite, as an augmentation to Booker. Her occasional departures resonate strongly because you're not just losing a partner, you're actually losing a part of yourself.

    If I have a criticism it's just that her AI could have been a little more convincing in finding cover. It breaks my suspension of disbelief to see her running around in the middle of a firefight when she should be huddled against a wall and dodging for cover. But I think to have had her do that more might have broken or diminished her primary role as a safety net and augmentation.

    But since Elizabeth is essentially a part of your character, it would have been nice if you could upgrade her. I mean, when you get those multicoloured potions that let you choose between health, shield, and mana, why not offer an option to let Elizabeth drink it and boost her abilities instead. Then you could have fine control over her role and function as a gameplay mechanic.

    Lockinging, for instance. Using possession on vending machines seemed like a cheat when mana is essentially limitless. Having Elizabeth "hack" into the vending machines using lockpicks would have provided more use for the lockpicks and, in conjunction with the opportunity to upgrade her, allowed the player to decide whether they wanted to focus their potions on a "hacking" Elizabeth versus a "scrounging" Elizabeth.

  14. #9264
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    Originally Posted by 68_pie
    I'm glad that having Elizabeth tag along doesn't just become one massive escort mission but doesn't the fact that she is invulnerable undermine the idea that you are meant to be protecting her?
    It would, if I ever saw her get attacked, but she hides so well. Though some times I wonder who should be protecting who. She is the one who can summon hurricanes.

    Also, ya their is nothing impressive about her AI. Just her character is really well done.

  15. #9265
    I just hope Valve has something awesome in store for Half-Life 3 since clearly most of their hard work on Half-Life 2 was ignored in favor of other developers who did the same things only 3-9 years later.
    Speed up the accelerating returns, 'cause carbon doesn’t work, I want to evolve and operate at terahertz.

  16. #9266
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    Gearbox bought Homeworld?!

  17. #9267
    Whyyyyyyyyyyyy? They literally have one good game and everything else they've ever made has been utter .
    Speed up the accelerating returns, 'cause carbon doesn’t work, I want to evolve and operate at terahertz.

  18. #9268
    Originally Posted by 68_pie
    Gearbox bought Homeworld?!
    Oh god no.

    I just saw it it too...

    I don't know what to say.

    Edit: I suppose the good they COULD do would be to release the games online, (steam, gog) As of now they can only be purchased in physical format.
    Play games for the story

  19. #9269
    Originally Posted by Shralla
    I just hope Valve has something awesome in store for Half-Life 3 since clearly most of their hard work on Half-Life 2 was ignored in favor of other developers who did the same things only 3-9 years later.
    Why is HL2 so loved? I don't get it. I much preferred the original. Sure, HL2's physics engine, graphics etc were exceptional for the time, but everything else HL1 did better imo. The stuff that matters, such as gameplay and level design.

    What did HL2 do that now gets emulated by modern developers who get all the credit? Strong storytelling in first person perspective without taking the control away from the player? Half-Life (arguably) and System Shock 2 (strongest!) had already done that. Large open environments? Deus Ex, Return to Castle Wolfenstien and Far Cry.
    HL2 is overrated imo, though still a great game.

  20. #9270
    Well specifically right now everybody's going crazy over Elizabeth in Bioshock Infinite both in terms of giving you a likable NPC companion as well as a functionally useful one, but she doesn't really do anything that Alyx didn't do almost a decade ago.

    I don't wanna get in a HL1 vs HL2 debate, but I will say it isn't necessarily any of the individual parts that makes it such a strong game, but the implementation of a number of different parts in such a cohesive way that hasn't been successfully emulated by other big-name FPS games until recently.
    Speed up the accelerating returns, 'cause carbon doesn’t work, I want to evolve and operate at terahertz.

  21. #9271
    Originally Posted by Shralla
    Well specifically right now everybody's going crazy over Elizabeth in Bioshock Infinite both in terms of giving you a likable NPC companion as well as a functionally useful one, but she doesn't really do anything that Alyx didn't do almost a decade ago.
    Heh, Alyx didn't even behave unrealistically either. Behavior such as others mentioned above. Standing in the open during firefights, having heated arguments then "ohh look Booker, lockpick" and so on. However Alyx didn't get nearly as much screentime as Liz so it was easier to pull off.

    Bioshock hasn't done anything revolutionary. Everything Bioshock did System Shock did better. For infinite I see nothing new either. Maybe just racism in abundance in a game?
    Sure, the Bioshock games stand out in the stagnant AAA market, but the credit Irrational receives for the Bio series is ignorant. They deserve it though, System Shock 2 is excellent, though Looking Glass made up most of the dev team. But all the members of Irrational were ex-LGS too if i'm not mistaken.

    Companions: Even the most annoying companion of all time was executed better arguably- Ashley from Resident Evil 4. She acted fairly realistically, made comments about events and such, and died when shot at or whatever. I even liked her as a gameplay device. Sure, her character wasn't as fleshed out or likable as Liz and her screeching was extremely irritating, but she was executed well in areas Liz was not. Combine the positives of Ashley with the positives of Liz, then you have a great AI companion.
    People just say Liz is a great AI companion because you don't ever have to worry about her and she is a good character. But that does not make her a good AI companion.

  22. #9272
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    Originally Posted by CyberP
    Why is HL2 so loved? I don't get it. I much preferred the original. Sure, HL2's physics engine, graphics etc were exceptional for the time, but everything else HL1 did better imo. The stuff that matters, such as gameplay and level design.

    What did HL2 do that now gets emulated by modern developers who get all the credit? Strong storytelling in first person perspective without taking the control away from the player? Half-Life (arguably) and System Shock 2 (strongest!) had already done that. Large open environments? Deus Ex, Return to Castle Wolfenstien and Far Cry.
    HL2 is overrated imo, though still a great game.
    Over time, I came to the realization that I don't really like half life 2. It's the worst thing on the orange box. I have over time also come to a realization that valve isn't all that good at making games, but their real talent is in publishing and finding good games and good people. The best parts of their best games come from when they absorb these talented people form outside the company.

  23. #9273
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    This is why HL2 > HL1
    Visits the forum once every six months.

  24. #9274
    Boring vehicle sections that need to be eradicated from shooters? Please troll elsewhere Also, HL1 had "on a rail".

    Gravity gun is accepted though.

  25. #9275
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    You found them boring? Really? I loved every bit of them. I'm addicted to exploration - loved the Mako on Mass Effect 1, too.

    Leaving the vehicle to clear the passage and explore nearby buildings... wow, good stuff.

    Edit: Dont get me wrong, HL1 is a great game. But, in my opinion, HL2 improves it in every aspect.
    Visits the forum once every six months.

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