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Thread: Why do you like Batman?

Why do you like Batman?

  1. #51
    Draz,this is getting a little redundant.I doubt that even Superman could be multiple places at once,and even if he did kill Batman, he probably has a contingency for that as well.Heart beat sensors and the like.This is a man with virtually unlimited resources.I agree with you and believe that Superman would beat Batman hands down every time, but I somehow think that Batman has every possible situation accounted for.
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  2. #52
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    Well what is your rogue Superman doing? I mean yeah people say X has magic, Y has the plans and so forth, but what good is that towards Superman? Why is your rogue Superman letting this happen? What is he doing instead? Can you answer that part?

  3. #53
    Originally Posted by Drazar
    Same with Darkseid in DCAU. Don't take DCUO seriously when they simply take liberties from the comics to spin their own story.

    DCUO can be taken into consideration...they wouldnt have made it like that if otherwise. luthor won that.

    And how will he do that? Are you trying to say he is going to somehow change the closest yellow dwarf we have and someone who can go faster then the speed of light can't stop him? This is where fans make ridicious batgod arguments withouth even looking at the comic lore. Can you delve deeper into this?

    i dont know how he would replicate the effects of a red sun, but then again im not batman. hes done crazier things im sure. dont they travel between different earths? this is probably crazier than the red sun theory.


    When has Joker ever physically beaten the Batman? This argument not only lacks prove, but is questionable to begin with.

    i never said anything about physical confrontation. everyone knows batman cant win there.


    You keep saying that, but when noone can provide a proper argument, why claim such things? It's the same as saying a criminal with a gun can kill Batman, since he's wielding a gun and Batman doesn't kill.

    Metallo is a robot who can just get fried, Captain Marvel now has been written on losing to brawls with Superman, sure he has the magical advantage but Superman is DC's top dog and to my reading knowledge much faster too. Doomsday is a walking plot device that noone should even bother taking seriously.

    You keep saying he can die, yet you further give me the idea you know close to nothing on Superman's powers.

    you say metallo can just get fried but you forget, would superman just do that? no he would just fight him. superman forgets he has his powers most of the time, the way the writers do him, and he relies on strength. metallo has come close to killing superman plenty of times. and the reason captain marvel is written on to losing fights with supes is because of back when captain marvel was owned by fawcett comics (we wont get into specifics) but captain marvel has the power of GODS, superman is just an over powered alien. and captain marvel has won before :Superman/Batman issue 5:
    Quote from Captain Marvel "It doesn't take the wisdom of Solomon to know you should stay down. I've beaten you in the past and I'll do it again if I have to-- but I don't want to."

    Thought caption from Superman: "Marvel's powers are based on magic. Toe-to-toe he has the advantage."
    and as for doomsday? we all know the deal with him.

    Why would Superman let Batman live long enough for Batman to start planning things? That'd be just stupid of him to do.

    whoever said superman knows batmans gunning for him?

    And how would he trick and beat Superman? How does a man kill the man who is faster then the speed of light? How does he get the jump on him?
    you give superman way too much credit. just because hes fast doesnt mean he'll do anything with that speed. Batman would use the trust superman has in him to get the upper hand.
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  4. #54
    Yes,people say that X has magic and Y has planning and so forth.Do you know how many of these characters there are throughout the DCU?How many magical beings?How many planners?He cannot attend to them all at once.Be it Batman,or Luthor, or Wonder Woman for that matter.Someone'll slip through the cracks,and that is all it takes.
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  5. #55
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    You still haven't answered my question. What is your rogue Superman doing instead of taking out the biggest threaths he has?

  6. #56
    Originally Posted by Drazar
    Same with Darkseid in DCAU. Don't take DCUO seriously when they simply take liberties from the comics to spin their own story.


    And how will he do that? Are you trying to say he is going to somehow change the closest yellow dwarf we have and someone who can go faster then the speed of light can't stop him? This is where fans make ridicious batgod arguments withouth even looking at the comic lore. Can you delve deeper into this?



    When has Joker ever physically beaten the Batman? This argument not only lacks prove, but is questionable to begin with.



    You keep saying that, but when noone can provide a proper argument, why claim such things? It's the same as saying a criminal with a gun can kill Batman, since he's wielding a gun and Batman doesn't kill.

    Metallo is a robot who can just get fried, Captain Marvel now has been written on losing to brawls with Superman, sure he has the magical advantage but Superman is DC's top dog and to my reading knowledge much faster too. Doomsday is a walking plot device that noone should even bother taking seriously.

    You keep saying he can die, yet you further give me the idea you know close to nothing on Superman's powers.



    Why would Superman let Batman live long enough for Batman to start planning things? That'd be just stupid of him to do.



    And how would he trick and beat Superman? How does a man kill the man who is faster then the speed of light? How does he get the jump on him?
    Hasn't Batman defeated Superman in open conflict twice? Regardless of whether those battles can be considered canon, regardless of whether Batman got "lucky," the fact is, Batman has defeated Superman. He doesn’t have to kill Superman in order to defeat him.

    Yes, Batman is physically inferior in every redeemable way, yes, Superman could reduce Batman to atoms if he so chose. But Batman is simply more intelligent, and has demonstrated an ability to employ that intelligence to exploit an adversary when he is physically outmatched. Batman's game is to "even the playing field" in such situations. The gamble Batman makes is that while Superman could kill Batman, his altruistic nature will prevent him from doing so every time, while Batman will employ every possible advantage at his disposal.

    Batman has the ability to plan five steps ahead for every contingency. Superman, for all his godlike power, does not. Batman even technically defeated Darkseid, not hand-to-hand of course, but with the power of his wits.

    The battle doesn't always go to the fastest, or the strongest. Often it will go to the man with the sharpest intellect.

    And frankly, the whole “preparation time” argument is moot. It wouldn’t be about Superman giving Batman time to prepare, since Batman would be preparing well before any open conflict.

  7. #57
    I'm assuming being preoccupied with other threats.It's a bit on the ridiculous side to assume that he can single handedly take down the entire DCU simultaneously.Bottom line,he's not that smart.
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  8. #58
    didnt monarch kill the DC universe too? that would consider superman as well. ergo, superman can be killed.
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  9. #59
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    Originally Posted by batfan08
    I'm assuming being preoccupied with other threats.
    So when he chose to become evil, he preoccupied himself with something else than taking down the biggest threaths? Why?

    It's a bit on the ridiculous side to assume that he can single handedly take down the entire DCU simultaneously
    I never said that, but with his powers him taking down the bigger threaths, making all chaos loose and then taking down the other heroes wouldn't be too much.

    Bottom line,he's not that smart.
    Superman is one of the smartest geniuses out there. I don't know where you get this assumption.
    Originally Posted by Billy Mays
    you give superman way too much credit. just because hes fast doesnt mean he'll do anything with that speed. Batman would use the trust superman has in him to get the upper hand.
    And do what? Give me detailed descriptions. Like that red sun example you wanted to use.
    Originally Posted by Hatman
    Hasn't Batman defeated Superman in open conflict twice?
    Depends what comics you're referring to? The last time Superman was brainwashed in Infinite Crisis, Batman nearly died until Diana killed Max Lord.

    Regardless of whether those battles can be considered canon, regardless of whether Batman got "lucky," the fact is, Batman has defeated Superman.
    Again i'd like to know these comics where Batman alone has defeated Superman.

    But Batman is simply more intelligent
    Based off? Superman is a brilliant scientist with invulnurable brain cells.

    Batman has the ability to plan five steps ahead for every contingency. Superman, for all his godlike power, does not.
    Based off what source of lore now?

    Batman even technically defeated Darkseid, not hand-to-hand of course, but with the power of his wits.
    Depends what you're referring to yet again? Final Crisis? Oh yeah he took Darkseid out of Dan Turpin's body and got trapped, but got out of the trap with his skills and asking for the Justice League to help him.
    The battle doesn't always go to the fastest, or the strongest. Often it will go to the man with the sharpest intellect.
    So Superman wins?

    And frankly, the whole “preparation time” argument is moot. It wouldn’t be about Superman giving Batman time to prepare, since Batman would be preparing well before any open conflict.
    And how would Batman know when Superman has gone rogue? Why isn't Batman the first victim?

  10. #60
    you didnt even touch anything i said in that post XD i think batman would know when he went rogue. and hes beaten him in TDKR, Hush, to name a few. many people can defeat superman, maybe you just dont want to believe it.
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  11. #61
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    Originally Posted by Billy Mays
    you didnt even touch anything i said in that post XD.
    How so? You still haven't answered my questions either mister. =(

    i think batman would know when he went rogue.
    And why wouldn't Batman be on the top of the first people rogue Superman would kill? And how would he avoid that?

    and hes beaten him in TDKR
    Can we really consider it a fight when Superman just wants Batman to lay down, and Batman launches on a weakened and unwilling Superman to throw in a few punches before faking his death? If Superman had wanted to kill Batman, he wouldn't had even bothered to ask Batman where to meet, he would have just used his lazors on Batman instead of writing him a message, or just realized he faked his death if he wanted to let Batman throw those punches in the first place.

    Hush
    But Superman there is fightning the brain washing and Batman is trying to save him, how can you consider that as a fight? Jeph Loeb (the writer of Hush) had Batman getting brainwashed in Superman|Batman comci title and Superman saved him, does that mean they had a fight?
    to name a few. many people can defeat superman
    Yet i haven't seen any proper arguments from you.

    maybe you just dont want to believe it.
    I believe what i wish based upon the comics i've read.

  12. #62
    Originally Posted by Drazar
    And do what? Give me detailed descriptions. Like that red sun example you wanted to use.
    batman: hey superman come to the batcave, i got a surprise for you!

    superman: oh boy i love surprises!

    (cave filled with green, red, and gold kryptonite)

    superman: curses batman! (rolls over and dies)
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  13. #63
    i accidentally combined my statements with one of your quotes. my forum skills are not yet honed XD
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  14. #64
    I never said that.However,if Batman's in Gotham and Luthor is in Paris,I doubt that Superman is powerful enough to handle both at once,also,as soon as the Justice League finds out,his entire plan goes to hell.

    As for the he's not that smart comment,I don't believe that I was thorough enough.He is scientifically brilliant,but he is nowhere near the level of a strategist that Batman is.I believe it was in an issue post #50 of Superman/Batman where Superman states that Batman taught him everything he knows about combat.However,if Batman's personality tells us anything,it is that he would keep some things to himself.

    As for the five steps ahead comment,read JLA:Tower of Babel.
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  15. #65
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    Originally Posted by Billy Mays
    batman: hey superman come to the batcave, i got a surprise for you!

    superman: oh boy i love surprises!

    (cave filled with green, red, and gold kryptonite)

    superman: curses batman! (rolls over and dies)
    Why didn't he sense the radiations and kryptonite long before entering the cave? Again Billy i question your knowledge on Superman's powers. It seems you're the one not wanting to believe in what happens to be written lore.

    Originally Posted by batfan08
    I never said that.However,if Batman's in Gotham and Luthor is in Paris,I doubt that Superman is powerful enough to handle both at once
    What is diffucult in eye beaming them both in a matter of minutes?
    ,also,as soon as the Justice League finds out,his entire plan goes to hell.
    Why doesn't he target the League first? They are the biggest threath a hero-gone-evil has to face.
    As for the he's not that smart comment,I don't believe that I was thorough enough.He is scientifically brilliant,but he is nowhere near the level of a strategist that Batman is
    Does he need to be to pull this off? What he needs is to eliminate the biggest threath first, then move onto the next, destroy communication ways and create mass chaos to keep the already scared heroes busy.

    As for the five steps ahead comment,read JLA:Tower of Babel.
    Having a plan means nothing if you can't use it. This is like me saying Joker defeats Batman by having a plan of using a titan serum. I've read JLA: Tower of Babel, and i've already even used it as an argument againts Batman. Why not just have Batman get in shock state by the rogue Superman throwing his parents corpses at him, laughing and then killing him with a single shot?

  16. #66
    This has grown tiresome.I could go on,but I forfeit out of sheer boredom.Eye beaming?C'mon,Draz,you and I both know that you can come up with a better argument than thst...
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  17. #67
    "Same with Darkseid in DCAU. Don't take DCUO seriously when they simply take liberties from the comics to spin their own story."

    DCUO can be taken into consideration...they wouldnt have made it like that if otherwise. luthor won that.

    "And how will he do that? Are you trying to say he is going to somehow change the closest yellow dwarf we have and someone who can go faster then the speed of light can't stop him? This is where fans make ridicious batgod arguments withouth even looking at the comic lore. Can you delve deeper into this?"

    i dont know how he would replicate the effects of a red sun, but then again im not batman. hes done crazier things im sure. dont they travel between different earths? this is probably crazier than the red sun theory.


    "When has Joker ever physically beaten the Batman? This argument not only lacks prove, but is questionable to begin with."

    i never said anything about physical confrontation. everyone knows batman cant win there.


    "You keep saying that, but when noone can provide a proper argument, why claim such things? It's the same as saying a criminal with a gun can kill Batman, since he's wielding a gun and Batman doesn't kill."

    "Metallo is a robot who can just get fried, Captain Marvel now has been written on losing to brawls with Superman, sure he has the magical advantage but Superman is DC's top dog and to my reading knowledge much faster too. Doomsday is a walking plot device that noone should even bother taking seriously."

    You keep saying he can die, yet you further give me the idea you know close to nothing on Superman's powers.

    you say metallo can just get fried but you forget, would superman just do that? no he would just fight him. superman forgets he has his powers most of the time, the way the writers do him, and he relies on strength. metallo has come close to killing superman plenty of times. and the reason captain marvel is written on to losing fights with supes is because of back when captain marvel was owned by fawcett comics (we wont get into specifics) but captain marvel has the power of GODS, superman is just an over powered alien. and captain marvel has won before :Superman/Batman issue 5:
    Quote from Captain Marvel "It doesn't take the wisdom of Solomon to know you should stay down. I've beaten you in the past and I'll do it again if I have to-- but I don't want to."

    Thought caption from Superman: "Marvel's powers are based on magic. Toe-to-toe he has the advantage."
    and as for doomsday? we all know the deal with him.

    "Why would Superman let Batman live long enough for Batman to start planning things? That'd be just stupid of him to do."

    whoever said superman knows batmans gunning for him?
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  18. #68
    and as for superman detecting radiation? didnt luthor lure him to a city and it was filled with kryptonite and superman used his famous superspeed to rush in and be weakened? and theres always lead to help batman out. and monarch beat superman, along with batman and everyone else.
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  19. #69
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    Originally Posted by batfan08
    This has grown tiresome.I could go on,but I forfeit out of sheer boredom.Eye beaming?C'mon,Draz,you and I both know that you can come up with a better argument than thst...
    I don't need to come up with better arguments such as Superman using phantom zone or creating pocket dimensions to his advantage, i know what he needs and it's not very much. You on the otherhand went inconsistant with your rogue Superman making arguments where he is too busy with some minor issues and doesn't even take out his biggest threaths first? Thats just being a bad super villain.
    Originally Posted by Billy Mays
    DCUO can be taken into consideration...they wouldnt have made it like that if otherwise.
    So you really want me to pull arguments like Superman destroying Nolan's Batman since he is based upon hyperrealism and in our world, and thus couldn't do nothing againts an alien? Why can't we just use the main source: Comics.

    Why use elseworlds and other things that are based upon comics?

    i dont know how he would replicate the effects of a red sun
    Thats not going to be convincing at all. You seem to wish someone else would make the answer to you, but that person would have to answer my question still.

    i never said anything about physical confrontation. everyone knows batman cant win there.
    But considering a fight to the death is all about a physical outcome, what is there for Batman to do except accept his fate, but ensure the heroes still alive might have a chance by sending out his plans? Of course sending the plans doesn't quarentee a win, it's about the execution of the plan.

    him. superman forgets he has his powers most of the time, the way the writers do him, and he relies on strength.
    In otherwords you're saying that Superman shouldn't act like Superman buit as a badly written character? So why can't i just say: Batman would just give up, because thats what a badly written character does.

    metallo has come close to killing superman plenty of times.
    Citations, please.
    and the reason captain marvel is written on to losing fights with supes is because of back when captain marvel was owned by fawcett comics
    Do you have anything to back up these claims at all?
    Superman/Batman issue 5:
    Quote from Captain Marvel "It doesn't take the wisdom of Solomon to know you should stay down. I've beaten you in the past and I'll do it again if I have to-- but I don't want to."
    Do you or Jeph Loeb have anything to citate where he actually has won? Or am i to take a threatening dialogue of a character seriously?
    and as for doomsday? we all know the deal with him.
    A walking plot device introduced to make comic sales and make out the next status quo of Superman comics. Just like Bane was made to break Batman to get Azrael as the next Batman.

    whoever said superman knows batmans gunning for him?
    Because he knows what his friend Bruce is like?

  20. #70
    Originally Posted by Drazar
    I don't need to come up with better arguments such as Superman using phantom zone or creating pocket dimensions to his advantage, i know what he needs and it's not very much. You on the otherhand went inconsistant with your rogue Superman making arguments where he is too busy with some minor issues and doesn't even take out his biggest threaths first? Thats just being a bad super villain.
    So you really want me to pull arguments like Superman destroying Nolan's Batman since he is based upon hyperrealism and in our world, and thus couldn't do nothing againts an alien? Why can't we just use the main source: Comics.

    Why use elseworlds and other things that are based upon comics? [/QUOTE]

    because superman doesnt exist in nolans world, so i didnt use that.

    [/QUOTE]Thats not going to be convincing at all. You seem to wish someone else would make the answer to you, but that person would have to answer my question still.[/QUOTE]

    if i thought of it, im sure someone else has too.

    [/QUOTE]But considering a fight to the death is all about a physical outcome, what is there for Batman to do except accept his fate, but ensure the heroes still alive might have a chance by sending out his plans? Of course sending the plans doesn't quarentee a win, it's about the execution of the plan.[/QUOTE]

    and many people can execute said plan, such as you mentioned earlier nightwing. hell even wonder woman.

    I[/QUOTE]n otherwords you're saying that Superman shouldn't act like Superman buit as a badly written character? So why can't i just say: Batman would just give up, because thats what a badly written character does.[/QUOTE]



    [/QUOTE]Citations, please.[/QUOTE]

    im looking XD

    Do you have anything to back up these claims at all?


    [/QUOTE]Do you or Jeph Loeb have anything to citate where he actually has won? Or am i to take a threatening dialogue of a character seriously?[/QUOTE]

    so you have a character saying hes won himself, yet you still refuse to believe it? thats proof right there my good friend. kingdome come is won. people can argue both sides, but the majority will be with captain marvel. they were fighting evenly, but mary marvel and captain marvel jr. were present too. which means captain marvels was fractioned.

    [/QUOTE]A walking plot device introduced to make comic sales and make out the next status quo of Superman comics. Just like Bane was made to break Batman to get Azrael as the next Batman.[/QUOTE]

    either way, it happened in the comics didnt it?

    Because he knows what his friend Bruce is like?[/QUOTE]


    im sure batman knows how to hide his feelings.

    and again, i refer to monarch.
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  21. #71
    I could go on,but as I said,I don't feel like it,As your "Superman" can apparently destroy two of the most powerful humans on the planet with a blast from each eye.Inconsistent?Rogue Superman is not god.He cannot single handedly destroy any metahuman that stands in his way without his plan backfiring.You my friend are being inconsistent,first you say that he would attack Batman and Luthor first,yet earlier you said he would attack the entire Justice League.
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  22. #72
    Originally Posted by batfan08
    I could go on,but as I said,I don't feel like it,As your "Superman" can apparently destroy two of the most powerful humans on the planet with a blast from each eye.Inconsistent?Rogue Superman is not god.He cannot single handedly destroy any metahuman that stands in his way without his plan backfiring.You my friend are being inconsistent,first you say that he would attack Batman and Luthor first,yet earlier you said he would attack the entire Justice League.
    exactly. if he was smart then he wouldn't go straight for the league. and there's always Deathstroke as well. many people can take out the man of steel.
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  23. #73
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    Look, this is getting ridiculous. Superman isn't infallible. No-one is, and he's most aware of that fact. Batman has next to no chance against him, but I am sure, given the right circumstances, anything is possible and he could win. It's a little tiny bit more than the possibility that a gnat could kill one of us, but it's there. While I am the biggest proponent of Superman, I think this whole argument is becoming counter productive. There are already far, far too many people that dislike Superman because they think he's all-powerful and written to be unrelateable to the common man. People are WRONG to assume this, but they do. However, he CAN and DOES face beings that can hurt, AND kill him, and to say otherwise would actually be adding fuel to his detractors' arguments. Superman can be killed, and he has been. Doomsday killed him and Doomsday is more than a plot device, and if we're counting official comics, you HAVE to count him. However, "death" for Superman is hardly permanent for this very reason: as long as HIS CELLS can still remain mostly intact on a planet where they can absorb a yellow sun's radiation, Superman has the chance to fully regenerate and live again. If he were to be on Krypton, under the red sun, when it went boom, then he would have died permanently, just like his entire race and his mother and father did. So, given this fact, it's the sun and the sun only that's making him near immortal. It's important to note "near" immortal. If Superman was facing things which could never kill him in the comics, there wouldn't be a point and it wouldn't be enough that his loved ones are in danger. He does face things that can kill him, but it's really, REALLY hard for that to happen, as long as he fights with more than just his powers: but with the heart of a hero (yes, it's sappy, but true). Ok? There's no reason to go back and forth like this. It's completely counterproductive to the thread's topic, number one -- I would definitely say it's thread derailment at this point -- and number two, it's only going to alienate both camps of fans to continue arguing over who can beat who. Superman and Batman are the best of friends, and each has their strengths AND weaknesses. Batman has his in spades. Mostly, they are psychological scars in nature, but they are there. Superman has more than weakness to Kryptonite (various forms), but it is in despite of their flaws and totally in favor of their strengths as heroes that they are both beloved by countless fans the world over and should remain so.

  24. #74
    Originally Posted by The Hylden
    Look, this is getting ridiculous. Superman isn't infallible. No-one is, and he's most aware of that fact. Batman has next to no chance against him, but I am sure, given the right circumstances, anything is possible and he could win. It's a little tiny bit more than the possibility that a gnat could kill one of us, but it's there. While I am the biggest proponent of Superman, I think this whole argument is becoming counter productive. There are already far, far too many people that dislike Superman because they think he's all-powerful and written to be unrelateable to the common man. People are WRONG to assume this, but they do. However, he CAN and DOES face beings that can hurt, AND kill him, and to say otherwise would actually be adding fuel to his detractors' arguments. Superman can be killed, and he has been. Doomsday killed him and Doomsday is more than a plot device, and if we're counting official comics, you HAVE to count him. However, "death" for Superman is hardly permanent for this very reason: as long as HIS CELLS can still remain mostly intact on a planet where they can absorb a yellow sun's radiation, Superman has the chance to fully regenerate and live again. If he were to be on Krypton, under the red sun, when it went boom, then he would have died permanently, just like his entire race and his mother and father did. So, given this fact, it's the sun and the sun only that's making him near immortal. It's important to note "near" immortal. If Superman was facing things which could never kill him in the comics, there wouldn't be a point and it wouldn't be enough that his loved ones are in danger. He does face things that can kill him, but it's really, REALLY hard for that to happen, as long as he fights with more than just his powers: but with the heart of a hero (yes, it's sappy, but true). Ok? There's no reason to go back and forth like this. It's completely counterproductive to the thread's topic, number one -- I would definitely say it's thread derailment at this point -- and number two, it's only going to alienate both camps of fans to continue arguing over who can beat who. Superman and Batman are the best of friends, and each has their strengths AND weaknesses. Batman has his in spades. Mostly, they are psychological scars in nature, but they are there. Superman has more than weakness to Kryptonite (various forms), but it is in despite of their flaws and totally in favor of their strengths as heroes that they are both beloved by countless fans the world over and should remain so.
    this is true XD i just wanted to know what peoples views were on batman, but it got a smidge outta hand
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  25. #75
    Hasn't Batman defeated Superman in open conflict twice?Depends what comics you're referring to? The last time Superman was brainwashed in Infinite Crisis, Batman nearly died until Diana killed Max Lord.

    Quote:
    Regardless of whether those battles can be considered canon, regardless of whether Batman got "lucky," the fact is, Batman has defeated Superman.
    Again i'd like to know these comics where Batman alone has defeated Superman.

    The first battle to which I am referring is when Superman is controlled by Poison Ivy (Batman/Superman Volume 2). Batman just so happens to dodge Superman’s heat vision three times and buys time by taking refuge in a lead-lined pipe. This affords Batman the time to set up flash charges and ready a Kryptonite ring that Superman had given him in case he ever went rogue. Inevitably, Superman does find Batman, who now has a fighting chance as his powers have been weakened by the ring. This allows Batman to stagger “The Man of Steel” with a series of punches, while warning him that using his heat vision will ignite a gas valve (a lie, but Superman cannot take that chance). Before Batman can break his own hand on Superman’s iron jaw, he uses a sonic pulse to further stun his counterpart. As Superman begins to bring his powers to bear, Batman sets off the charges, temporarily blinding him, then grapples away. Just as Superman (who admits, “You hurt me”) is about to bludgeon Batman with a car, Batman employs his last ace, directing Superman’s attention to Catwoman, who is about to drop Lois Lane off a building. Superman will always abandon a battle to save the life of an innocent, particularly an innocent he cares deeply for, and Batman knows it. Apparently, making this choice somehow negates Ivy’s hold on him.

    As this whole battle starts to unfold, Batman thinks, “I know what his next move will be...what he doesn’t know is what my next move will be.”

    Another Batman-Superman standoff occurs in The Dark Knight Returns. In this instance, Batman’s resumption of his career brings him into direct conflict with Superman, who is employed by the government to stop him. Batman, middle-aged and showing signs of an emergent heart condition, still displays his ability to outmaneuver a seemingly ageless Superman. Showing his typical patterns of planning ahead, Batman strikes a bargain with the retired Green Arrow, who has an old grudge to settle with Superman, whom he blames for the loss of an arm. Aware that Superman has been considerably weakened when a nuke detonated, temporarily blocking Superman’s ability to absorb light from the sun, Batman once again anticipates what Superman will do—while Superman more or less fails to anticipate what Batman will do. Batman waits for him at Crime Alley (and had Superman had done a single ounce of his homework on Bruce Wayne, he may have realized this is where Batman would be). Knowing all too well that Superman will fly in pelly-nelly and bathe the region with x-rays in an attempt to locate him, Batman sets up a bunch of missiles that are activated by the x-rays. The objective here is ideally to weaken Superman further while gauging the extent of his remaining strength. Before Superman can pinpoint Batman, the Dark Knight has another diversion. His tank, piloted by the new Robin, creates another distraction that Superman simply must deal with before he can give Batman his full attention.

    Finally locating Batman at Crime Alley, Superman attempts to talk some sense into him, which, once again, is exactly what Batman anticipated. Wearing an armored batsuit, Batman employs a sonic gun. At this point, Batman goes into direct hand to hand combat with Superman, and actually holds his own despite being an old man. Just when it seems like he may have lost, he squirts acid into Superman’s face, enabling an elderly Green Arrow to fire a Kryptonite arrow into their midst. As the scrap reaches its climax, Batman floors Superman, and is only prevented from finishing him off by the aforementioned heart ailment. Yet even this was planned by Batman. Perhaps knowing that he could not fully incapacitate Superman, Batman has planned for a contingency to end the battle on his terms: by convincing Superman he’s dead.
    Yet another example of Batman’s ability to rationalize more deductively than Superman.

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    But Batman is simply more intelligent
    Based off? Superman is a brilliant scientist with invulnurable brain cells.

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    Batman has the ability to plan five steps ahead for every contingency. Superman, for all his godlike power, does not.
    Based off what source of lore now?

    Batman has a genius level IQ. Superman may be smart, but he’s not Batman’s smart. Batman dedicated his early life to fields of psychology that would better enable him to deduce his opponent’s motivations, weaknesses, etc. Batman is the chess player of the DC comics world, a man who prefers to think five steps ahead. In Batman: Hush, a young Bruce Wayne is revealed to adopting this logic via his childhood experiences with Tommy Elliot. In No Man’s Land, Batman explains to Superman, “I have to be at least five moves ahead of my enemies, with five contingency plans, and five backup plans for those contingencies at all times...a variable like Superman throws off everything.” This phrase perfectly establishes Batman’s approach to crimefighting and the manner in which he thinks.

    Batman is a normal human. Superman, by comparison, realized he had super strength and heat vision before he was an adult. Thus, there was no degree of great urgency for him to develop his mind in the same way Bruce Wayne did, as in most cases, his powers would be enough.

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    Batman even technically defeated Darkseid, not hand-to-hand of course, but with the power of his wits.
    Depends what you're referring to yet again? Final Crisis? Oh yeah he took Darkseid out of Dan Turpin's body and got trapped, but got out of the trap with his skills and asking for the Justice League to help him.

    The conflict between Batman and Darkseid occurred on Apokolips when Batman and Superman were attempting to liberate Supergirl from Darkseid’s clutches. Knowing any attempt to take a 9-foot alien with the consistency of rock hand to hand is a losing battle, Batman has the forethought to add a bargaining chip to the confrontation. Faced with certain death when Darkseid almost breaks him in half, Batman tells Darkseid that to kill him will doom Apokolips, as Batman has rigged all of the explosive devices that create fiery pits to detonate...and he has also rewritten the access codes of those devices. Darkseid stands down. Batman’s gambit enables the heroes to save Supergirl where they may otherwise have failed.
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    The battle doesn't always go to the fastest, or the strongest. Often it will go to the man with the sharpest intellect.
    So Superman wins?

    Not always. Notice how I said, “The sharpest intellect.” Regardless of whether Superman is intelligent, he hasn’t trained his mind his whole life the way Batman has. Undoubtedly, Superman has his share of advantages over Batman, but mentally, Batman has Superman beat, and he’s demonstrated that edge.

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    And frankly, the whole “preparation time” argument is moot. It wouldn’t be about Superman giving Batman time to prepare, since Batman would be preparing well before any open conflict.
    And how would Batman know when Superman has gone rogue? Why isn't Batman the first victim?

    If Superman did go rogue, he might well challenge Batman first, but that is impossible to say for sure without knowing his precise motivations for doing so. Whatever the case, Batman has most likely prepared for that eventuality ahead of time.

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