Thread: Give us PC gameplay footage already!

Give us PC gameplay footage already!

  1. #101
    As one of the two guys who's been riding Kyle hardest in this thread (no jokes, please) I want to make it clear that what I am saying is not a complaint about Kyle himself, either on a personal or professional level. It's pretty clear that the decision to be so ridiculously tight-lipped about this game is coming from above him, and he can't change it. If it appears that I'm attacking him directly, it's just because he's the one stepping up to defend Eidos Montreal's so-called "marketing plan." I would much, much rather have this debate with their marketing manager directly, but as that's not going to happen (I doubt he / she would deign to float down from their cloud to engage in discourse with such mere peasants and scum as us!) Kyle unfortunately bears the brunt of it.

    So, sonicsidewinder....

    Originally Posted by sonicsidewinder
    Next time on 'Day Us in the Ex - The Human Reveal Solution'...
    Ashpolt says sorry while I_I sticks to his guns...
    ....you were half correct, I guess! Does that count as an apology? Sort of, I think. To Kyle, at least. I'm totally unapologetic to EM's marketing manager though. Which is fine, as I doubt it's possible to hurt the feelings of a drinking bird that periodically hits the key for "don't release any more information!"

    Now for Keir...

    Originally Posted by Keir
    While it is great that opinions are so unequivocal I think it’s fair to wait until you’ve seen the full picture before you cast a final judgement. Of course it's up to you whether you chose to, but it makes sense to me to look at the full picture.
    Yeah, exactly. Let us see, if not the full picture, then at least more of it. That's what's being debated in this thread, not the quality of the game itself but the fact that we're not being allowed to make anything even approaching a final judgement on this title. If EM were simply trying to hide a poor product while still generating a small amount of hype then the current "marketing plan" (and no, I'm never going to not put that in inverted commas) would make perfect sense. Given that near enough all hands on reports of the game are overwhelmingly positive though, and it doesn't appear that we've got an Invisible War (or, worse, Daikatana) on our hands, this "marketing plan" is ridiculous and counterproductive.

  2. #102
    Originally Posted by MaxxQ1
    Jerion can't answer those questions because he signed a non-disclosure agreement when he spent his three days playing the game.

    He can't even give us hints.

    I don't know if you've ever been under an NDA before, but you pretty much can't talk about anything covered by one, in any way, shape or form. I'm currently under an NDA myself for something completely unrelated to DX, so I know wherefrom I speak.
    Agreed, I mistook him for someone else - I should've made sure twice.
    However, that wasn't meant to only one person - in particular not the one who played a Beta and signing an NDA. It was meant to the people responsible for releasing information and the corresponding authorities.

  3. #103
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    Originally Posted by Ashpolt

    Now for Keir...



    Yeah, exactly. Let us see, if not the full picture, then at least more of it. That's what's being debated in this thread, not the quality of the game itself but the fact that we're not being allowed to make anything even approaching a final judgement on this title. If EM were simply trying to hide a poor product while still generating a small amount of hype then the current "marketing plan" (and no, I'm never going to not put that in inverted commas) would make perfect sense. Given that near enough all hands on reports of the game are overwhelmingly positive though, and it doesn't appear that we've got an Invisible War (or, worse, Daikatana) on our hands, this "marketing plan" is ridiculous and counterproductive.
    I was predominantly referring to marketing in my post, particularly when I said 'things are often far more complicated than they appear'. Sorry if I didn't make that clear. Really, you'd be amazed at how complex things are behind the scenes. You think you're frustrated? I've been doing this gig for years and I care very much about people that show an interest in our games, this aspect of the process sucked the life out of me a long time ago but it's very much the nature of the industry.

    While I'm here I'd like to put in another two pence. On any forum, even if it's about gardening or something, there will be some people that have a tendency to turn splitting hairs into a fine art. Given we're talking about a game developed in Montréal, I think there's an apt French expression that translates to something akin to 'sodomising a fly'. I appreciate people don't have much else to discuss at present because the assets are light on the ground - but the point being is that will change, all I was doing was asking that people could find a little more patience. Then once you've got the full picture if you're not impressed with the marketing or whatever, that's considered.

    I get where you're coming from though and I appreciate your patience and interest.
    "......It reminds me of Beethoven..... can you hear it?"

  4. #104
    We've been patient for three years. Knowing that the game is feature complete, playable from start to finish and merely undergoing "polishing", the time when EM could reasonably ask us to be patient has long passed.

  5. #105
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    Kinda hard to argue with Ashpolts point right now. Its very late in the game and we haven't seen much in the way of raw gameplay. Just small snip-its in some trailers.


    Just show us the damn game already. Show me more of this game so that I can confidently go and pre-order it without worry

  6. #106
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    I'm not trying to argue with Ashpolt's points by the way. Just presenting things from my perspective.

    Originally Posted by Ashpolt
    We've been patient for three years. Knowing that the game is feature complete, playable from start to finish and merely undergoing "polishing", the time when EM could reasonably ask us to be patient has long passed.
    Well, they can - whether you choose to listen or not is entirely your call.

    I'm not involved directly with the marketing for DX:HR because I have my plate full with other stuff, but this is the reality of the situation. Although I can see both sides of the fence, I don't know the details of the marketing for DX:HR, I'm not one to make assumptions and criticise when I don't actually have all the information.

    A release date hasn't even been announced. I'm just saying that once people have the full picture regarding marketing, etc, then they will be able to make a judgement. Until then, I'm sorry if you're feeling angry/upset/frustrated by the current situation. It won't last forever and I hope you will be blown away when more goodness is released.
    "......It reminds me of Beethoven..... can you hear it?"

  7. #107
    Originally Posted by luce
    Kinda hard to argue with Ashpolts point right now. Its very late in the game and we haven't seen much in the way of raw gameplay. Just small snip-its in some trailers.


    Just show us the damn game already. Show me more of this game so that I can confidently go and pre-order it without worry
    This is what I said, and thought about, recently, too. Just take Batman: Arkham City developed by Rocksteady: it will be released in fall 2011, which is a long time from here, it is yet already playable from start to finish! And we have only 2 trailers, and a pretty set of screenshots. I mean, it's ridicolous you can't be sure that AAA game, in this case Human Revolution isn't, at 3 or 4 months before release, completely playable: I red twits by JJB saying it's not ready, I red a recent CVG article saying it is ready, I red GameInformer which is rather important among gaming fans that it is not known nor unknown... What should I think about what is the goal of the industry? At this point, just to create a freaking mess among us in the forum, for fun of being trolls maybe.

    No offense, though.

  8. #108
    Originally Posted by Keir
    Well, they can - whether you choose to listen or not is entirely your call.
    Sure, they can do it. They can do whatever the hell they like. The key word in my last post was "reasonably."

    People often accuse us forum-goers of having "entitlement issues," but it seems the other way around to me - EM seem to think they're entitled to our interest and support just because they've got an IP that we like. I'd say the only reason any of us are still here at this point, other than sheer stubbornness, is due to the strength of the brand - a brand Eidos Montreal did not create. We're here on goodwill to a completely different group of people, not to EM. God knows if this was a new IP I would have left long ago due to lack of new information, and I'm pretty confident in saying I'm not alone in that.

    EM seem to think that, though we're their customers, they don't have to do anything to earn our support, trust or respect, it should just be given to them. Well, that's not the case. As customers, we shouldn't have to be begging for scraps of information. At the end of the day, EM are trying to sell us something, not the other way round. Your customers are ultimately the people who will decide whether your game succeeds or fails, and to not only ingore them, but to roundly fail to give them simple bits of information about your product when they directly ask for it (even absurdly simple questions like "Will PC players be able to define their own hotkeys?" or "What languages will be supported?" have not been answered) is not only bad marketing, but actually shows contempt for the very customers who are most likely to buy your game.

    OK, you've got a "marketing plan." Newsflash: It's not working, at least not amongst your core. You're turning potentially your most dedicated fans against you. I don't care how much you like your "plan," it's a bad one, and needs to be changed.

    Eidos Montreal are not entitled to our custom, and they would do well to remember that.

  9. #109
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    Originally Posted by Srosa
    This is what I said, and thought about, recently, too. Just take Batman: Arkham City developed by Rocksteady: it will be released in fall 2011, which is a long time from here, it is yet already playable from start to finish! And we have only 2 trailers, and a pretty set of screenshots. I mean, it's ridicolous you can't be sure that AAA game, in this case Human Revolution isn't, at 3 or 4 months before release, completely playable: I red twits by JJB saying it's not ready, I red a recent CVG article saying it is ready, I red GameInformer which is rather important among gaming fans that it is not known nor unknown... What should I think about what is the goal of the industry? At this point, just to create a freaking mess among us in the forum, for fun of being trolls maybe.

    No offense, though.
    Ok please point me to where I said this game should be completely playable from start to finish.

    I know you're attempting to exaggerate for comedic affect but how do you go from "show me some gameplay footage or maybe some more screens" to "show me the whole game start to finish ASAP"

    Uncharted 3 was announced with a gameplay trailer and gameplay videos all over the web. We're getting fed a few scraps every few months if we're lucky and this game is supposedly in its finishing stages.

    Hopefully that wasn't too hard to understand (no offense)

  10. #110
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    I don't know what the hell EM's marketing plan is, but right now it doesn't seem to be working at all. The only people who really have the game on their radars are DX fans (us here! hello, can you hear us?), and we're not exactly teeming with enthusiasm. The general gaming public mostly doesn't follow or even notice this game, and when they do, the reactions are akin to "looks like a Mass Effect/MGS/Bioshock knockoff". There is no hype surrounding this title at all.

    Eh, at least its better than Thief 4, where the very announcement practically turned into a disaster.

  11. #111
    Kodaemon I don't believe that's entirely true. From what I've read and seen on the internet there is a lot of hype with the mainstream/people who never played the first one.

  12. #112
    Originally Posted by Ashpolt
    I'm totally unapologetic to EM's marketing manager though. Which is fine, as I doubt it's possible to hurt the feelings of a drinking bird that periodically hits the key for "don't release any more information!"
    Man, that made me lol for real.

    I'm kind of curious what you really want to see? Personally I don't want any spoilers (and imho we've had a couple already). I'd say, mechanics wise, we've seen most of it.

    Maybe seeing how energy/hp is balanced against DX difficulty would be nice. As of right now it seems like invisibility = godmode.

    And a final say on whether we can hide the ammo pop-up on the consoles (please please please!!!). But other than that I know most of what I need to know and I'll certainly be purchasing. The only question is day 1 or wait a month and save $20-$30.
    Oh you like my handwriting? It's augmented.

  13. #113
    [doublepost]
    Oh you like my handwriting? It's augmented.

  14. #114
    Originally Posted by Cronstintein
    Man, that made me lol for real.

    I'm kind of curious what you really want to see?
    PC footage, duh ;p

  15. #115
    Originally Posted by Zakka
    Kodaemon I don't believe that's entirely true. From what I've read and seen on the internet there is a lot of hype with the mainstream/people who never played the first one.
    Exactly! Those people are pretty pleased. They have the trailers. They have the shiny. Release another trailer two months before the game comes out and another one the month before the game comes out and you have those sales. The only real problem lies with people who are really looking for a new DX game. They are the ones questioning this game. From the looks of the "marketing plan" so far those people aren't important.


    Originally Posted by Cronstintein
    I'd say, mechanics wise, we've seen most of it.
    We haven't. We've had a brief description of the combat, an even shorter description of the stealth, two instances of the conversation system and a single preview of the hacking minigame. Each and everyone of those still has large parts that are unclear. That's to say nothing of such things as how the BE system actually works, if the NPC's have different damage zones, how the AI will operate and other major issues. That gigantic sticky thread isn't full of questions because we just like typing a whole lot.
    Rule 30: A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.

  16. #116
    Originally Posted by luce
    "show me the whole game start to finish ASAP"
    I didn't mean this. What I meant is that the game is (maybe) very close to its shelves-hitting moment, many articles throughout the internet says it is fully playable and still I read on the forums (by official announcements from manager Coyotegrey (took him just 2 build an example) deniying this statement.

    Just compare those two statements if you're skeptical:

    Earlier statement (referring to a player who said the game were fully playable):

    Deus Ex 3 Delayed 2012
    Views: 4,641
    Posted By Coyotegrey
    Negative on the "done" part.

    Negative on the "done" part.
    Latest statement:

    http://www.computerandvideogames.com...-original-dev/

    According to the latest issue of PC Gamer UK, Human Revolution is now finally playable from start to finish, and it's meant to take more than an entire day to do so.

    Look for our full Deus Ex interview on these pages shortly.
    How do you explain this now?

    And...

    Since the DLC or expansive packages always show the final version of the game (I say this because usually they are always shown even months after the release of his older brother) it seems strange that they are introduced just when the game is still in harness (harness Yes, but ironically ended).

  17. #117
    Assuming the release date of May is accurate, they still have plenty of time to get the marketing in full swing. I actually didn't know much about Red Dead Redemption until literally a month or so before release date, but by god, I certainly heard of it when they did kick their promotion into gear.

    4 months is still quite a long time and they probably don't want to put all their eggs in the basket too soon. People are generally quite fickle anyway and sustaining interest for 4 months isn't all that easy. Having a huge marketing campaign just as the game is about to be released has the added benefit of exciting people AND making them spend money immediately. Right now, we can only be teased.

    As for people not knowing about DX:HR, well, every time there is some news about the game on sites like Eurogamer, Gametrailers, etc... the response is almost universally positive, so I don't think they've completely failed from a marketing perspective. Interest has been roused, now they just need to seal the deal.

    Saying that, I do agree we should have seen some official PC footage by now, if only to raise awareness that this isn't just a typical console game. Let everyone know how smart the game is and how it breaks from mainstream tradition and can appeal to both PC and console gamers.

  18. #118
    Originally Posted by Cronstintein
    I'm kind of curious what you really want to see?
    PC footage. Unedited gameplay footage, including the social and exploration aspects of the game, not just the action sections, with HUD present. Some idea of how "social combat" isn't just a PR spin on what RPGs have been doing for years, which it sounds like to me. Really in general just some kind of substance to EM's claim that this game isn't just being made for the console and mainstream crowd. They keep telling us PC gamers and existing fans are important, yet do very little to actually back up that statement.

    Originally Posted by Kodaemon
    I don't know what the hell EM's marketing plan is, but right now it doesn't seem to be working at all. The only people who really have the game on their radars are DX fans (us here! hello, can you hear us?), and we're not exactly teeming with enthusiasm. The general gaming public mostly doesn't follow or even notice this game, and when they do, the reactions are akin to "looks like a Mass Effect/MGS/Bioshock knockoff". There is no hype surrounding this title at all.
    The mainstream market have at least had this game "on their radar" - they noticed it because of the shiny CGI trailer - but there's been next to nothing to keep them interested since. They're an incredibly fickle crowd who will buy less games per year than the core market, and yet who are having almost the entire games market targeted solely at them. They may have loved the DXHR pre-rendered trailer - and they did - but to them, DXHR is only one of god knows how many games releasing this year, so EM need to do more than simply get the game on their radar in the first place. Yes, a full-on marketing campaign in the couple of months leading up to release will quite possibly be enough to sway the more fickle among them (assuming DXHR isn't released in the same month as GoW3, CoD3, or any other well known brand) but here's the thing:

    There is nothing to stop EM releasing information now to please the core, and still doing their pre-release marketing blast.

    (Yes, I'm aware I'm largely agreeing with you: I wasn't arguing your point, you just provided a good jumping off point for me!)

    Originally Posted by puzl
    Assuming the release date of May is accurate, they still have plenty of time to get the marketing in full swing. I actually didn't know much about Red Dead Redemption until literally a month or so before release date, but by god, I certainly heard of it when they did kick their promotion into gear.

    4 months is still quite a long time and they probably don't want to put all their eggs in the basket too soon. People are generally quite fickle anyway and sustaining interest for 4 months isn't all that easy. Having a huge marketing campaign just as the game is about to be released has the added benefit of exciting people AND making them spend money immediately. Right now, we can only be teased.
    As above, there's nothing to stop EM doing both. I'm aware they've got to work to a budget, but EM obviously have a large marketing budget to this title - as I've mentioned before, they hired out literally every single poster spot at the Eurogamer Expo last year, they had that ginormous banner outside E3 last year - they're not operating on a shoestring budget here. And even if they are, releasing a few screenshots and answering a few questions is not expensive. Budget can't be the issue here, so again, releasing information now doesn't stop EM from doing a big blast pre-release.

    As for keeping people interested for long periods of time: it may be tough to plan a marketing schedule to do this, but it's even tougher to keep them interested when you're not releasing anything.

    Originally Posted by puzl
    As for people not knowing about DX:HR, well, every time there is some news about the game on sites like Eurogamer, Gametrailers, etc... the response is almost universally positive, so I don't think they've completely failed from a marketing perspective. Interest has been roused, now they just need to seal the deal.
    As I said to Kyle a couple of pages back though, it's not just a question of positive vs negative comments, volume has to be taken into account as well. It's not just negativity you're fighting against as a marketer, but also indifference. If you've got 1000 positive comments on a video - great! And only 50 negative comments? Brilliant! But you've had 400,000 views. What about the 398,950 people who didn't care enough either way to comment? What about the millions of potential gamers who haven't even watched the trailer?

    But at the end of the day, as I say, I have no doubt that when EM inevitably do their marketing blast a couple of months pre-release, they'll convert enough of the mainstream crowd to make this game a financial success. No doubt about it. And if that's all they're after, then their current marketing plan will achieve that objective. However, they're the ones who keep saying they care about the core fanbase as well, and want to appeal to them, and that group is currently harbouring quite a lot of ill will towards EM which could be dispelled very easily without negatively affecting the marketing to the mainstream crowd. I've said it before, I'll probably say it again: releasing some information / footage / screens now to appease the core crowd will not negatively affect EM's ability to do a marketing blast shortly pre-release, so it's not a question of "why can't they do it?" but "why aren't they doing it?", and the only thing I can think of that answers that question is that, despite their repeated claims to the contrary, they simply don't care enough about the core fanbase to make the effort. They think they're entitled to our support, and don't see that they should have to give anything in return for it.

  19. #119
    Originally Posted by Zakka
    Kodaemon I don't believe that's entirely true. From what I've read and seen on the internet there is a lot of hype with the mainstream/people who never played the first one.
    Thats the point! They(mainstream audience) want to play DX:HR cos it resembles them to Gears Of War and Mass Effect and god knows what else! They(mainstream audience) don't want, or even know what DX is all about and what it should be, they just want some shiny, polished new game that have all the thing they like(cover, reg, tp..)
    From one point of view this is absolutely fine.. but from other point of view, well, one may ask him self.. since mainstream audience is majority, and they can't tell their head from asses, did EM really did it's best to create a proper DX game or do they want to please the majority, and leave us the scraps and pale memory...

  20. #120
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    Originally Posted by Srosa
    I didn't mean this. What I meant is that the game is (maybe) very close to its shelves-hitting moment, many articles throughout the internet says it is fully playable and still I read on the forums (by official announcements from manager Coyotegrey (took him just 2 build an example) deniying this statement.

    Just compare those two statements if you're skeptical:

    Earlier statement (referring to a player who said the game were fully playable):



    Latest statement:

    http://www.computerandvideogames.com...-original-dev/



    How do you explain this now?

    And...

    Since the DLC or expansive packages always show the final version of the game (I say this because usually they are always shown even months after the release of his older brother) it seems strange that they are introduced just when the game is still in harness (harness Yes, but ironically ended).
    I completely misread your post *facepalm*

    Forget everything I typed

  21. #121
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    Originally Posted by Cronstintein
    I'm kind of curious what you really want to see?
    Now this is a perfect example of what we never want to hear Kyle forced to say, or worse, really not knowing the answer to already.

    What is the thread title, Cronst'? Start there and read your way down. If you still don't have the answer, then keep L'ingOL, but just know you've utterly missed it, and further commentary on the matter isn't in your best interests, nor EM's.

  22. #122
    Originally Posted by Srosa
    I didn't mean this. What I meant is that the game is (maybe) very close to its shelves-hitting moment, many articles throughout the internet says it is fully playable and still I read on the forums (by official announcements from manager Coyotegrey (took him just 2 build an example) deniying this statement.

    Just compare those two statements if you're skeptical:

    Earlier statement (referring to a player who said the game were fully playable):



    Latest statement:

    http://www.computerandvideogames.com...-original-dev/



    How do you explain this now?

    And...

    Since the DLC or expansive packages always show the final version of the game (I say this because usually they are always shown even months after the release of his older brother) it seems strange that they are introduced just when the game is still in harness (harness Yes, but ironically ended).
    I'm going to be brief, because I'm in-between matches in League of Legends, it's Friday, and I'm drinking. But in regards to that quote from me, I was just saying what I was told. The person who told me was giving their honest opinion, and it could just be a difference of perspective.

  23. #123
    For the second time Srosa. There is a big difference in 'a game is done' and 'it's PLAYABLE from start to finish'. That last sentence does not mean the game is done. I explained this earlier in a reply to your post.

  24. #124
    Originally Posted by puzl
    Assuming the release date of May is accurate, they still have plenty of time to get the marketing in full swing. I actually didn't know much about Red Dead Redemption until literally a month or so before release date, but by god, I certainly heard of it when they did kick their promotion into gear.

    4 months is still quite a long time and they probably don't want to put all their eggs in the basket too soon. People are generally quite fickle anyway and sustaining interest for 4 months isn't all that easy. Having a huge marketing campaign just as the game is about to be released has the added benefit of exciting people AND making them spend money immediately. Right now, we can only be teased.

    As for people not knowing about DX:HR, well, every time there is some news about the game on sites like Eurogamer, Gametrailers, etc... the response is almost universally positive, so I don't think they've completely failed from a marketing perspective. Interest has been roused, now they just need to seal the deal.

    Saying that, I do agree we should have seen some official PC footage by now, if only to raise awareness that this isn't just a typical console game. Let everyone know how smart the game is and how it breaks from mainstream tradition and can appeal to both PC and console gamers.

    I totally agree with this. I am just worried. I used Crysis 2 as an example because that game releases next month. That's REALLY soon. Only thing Crytek showed was some screenshots. However, I think pc gamers kind of know what to expect form the pc version. There isn't a lot of mystery there.

    DEHR on the other hand, it's supposed to be a complex game. We need to know a little bit more than just some screenshots (which we don't have).

  25. #125

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