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Thread: IGNS take on a Batman Game.

IGNS take on a Batman Game.

  1. #1

    IGNS take on a Batman Game.



    Imagine a Batman game based on the "A Death in the Family" storyline, where the Joker killed Jason Todd. The early part of the story has Batman and Robin working together. You experience Robin's importance in the field and at home. Perhaps even so far as to have actually gameplay aspects built into having Robin by your side. Then, tragedy strikes and the person Batman is meant to protect is brutally murdered. The Dark Knight loses his ward, you lose a part of the gameplay that had helped you out in earlier parts of the game. The remainder of the game sees Batman on a personal crusade to hunt down the Joker. The catch -- he's rushing to find the Joker before the authorities so he can deliver whatever justice he feels appropriate. Failing to find the Joker first means failing the memory of Jason Todd. That's pretty powerful.

    Batman: Arkham Asylum is a great step forward for comic-book games, but as a long-time Batman reader, it still doesn't get at the core of what makes Batman a great character. And the villains come off as caricatures, where the best Batman tales showcase them as people more victims of their own psychoses than calculating maniacs.

    There are no easy solutions to the problems that face comic-book games. When it's a licensed game, publishers must deal with movie studios and/or the comic's publisher. Budgets and development time become issues too, since many licensed games have less time to cook in the oven. And most importantly, many publishers just don't take comic books seriously. It may take a new property, like an Infamous type of game, to push the boundaries and try something daring and new.

    As a gamer, I enjoy a lot of these comic-inspired titles, but I've yet to play one that's given me the same feeling I get from a comic book. If movies can get it right, a game can do better. Now someone needs to prove it.

    http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/114/1144153p1.html

  2. #2
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    Originally Posted by TheBat
    This looks just says: "Son I am disapoint"

  3. #3
    Originally Posted by TheBat


    Imagine a Batman game based on the "A Death in the Family" storyline, where the Joker killed Jason Todd. The early part of the story has Batman and Robin working together. You experience Robin's importance in the field and at home. Perhaps even so far as to have actually gameplay aspects built into having Robin by your side. Then, tragedy strikes and the person Batman is meant to protect is brutally murdered. The Dark Knight loses his ward, you lose a part of the gameplay that had helped you out in earlier parts of the game. The remainder of the game sees Batman on a personal crusade to hunt down the Joker. The catch -- he's rushing to find the Joker before the authorities so he can deliver whatever justice he feels appropriate. Failing to find the Joker first means failing the memory of Jason Todd. That's pretty powerful.

    Batman: Arkham Asylum is a great step forward for comic-book games, but as a long-time Batman reader, it still doesn't get at the core of what makes Batman a great character. And the villains come off as caricatures, where the best Batman tales showcase them as people more victims of their own psychoses than calculating maniacs.

    There are no easy solutions to the problems that face comic-book games. When it's a licensed game, publishers must deal with movie studios and/or the comic's publisher. Budgets and development time become issues too, since many licensed games have less time to cook in the oven. And most importantly, many publishers just don't take comic books seriously. It may take a new property, like an Infamous type of game, to push the boundaries and try something daring and new.

    As a gamer, I enjoy a lot of these comic-inspired titles, but I've yet to play one that's given me the same feeling I get from a comic book. If movies can get it right, a game can do better. Now someone needs to prove it.

    http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/114/1144153p1.html
    This is a pretty good read, imagine a game based on the Knightfall storyline.
    Whatever happened to the American dream? It came true, you're looking at it .

  4. #4
    Everything in that article is spot on. I hope that Rocksteady accomplishes something to this effect with AC's darker tone.

  5. #5
    Also I agree that facial expression doesn't match the scene at all.

  6. #6
    I dislike the article. To me batman arkham asylum got a B+ in terms of feeling like the comics. Im not a heavy comic reader but i read several graphic novels and stuff at the library when the game came out and i felt that it was as good as it could get for what it was! I felt the relationship with the joker oracle and gordan was spot on. I mean walking into the visitors center felt like a page out of a book. While it wasnt a perfect game compared to the comics, it was the best liscenced game untill arkham city
    Click to see my video projects --->>> Dufase19089

  7. #7
    Exactly why they can only get better but I still felt the two areas they could improve was deeper more emotional storytelling and the boss fights. Yes, AA was and still is amazing but we can't rest on and accept it simply because it's the best Batman game to date. We have to expect better and what the article is say is that comic book games, while a few may nail the character with a solid gameplay foundation (of which AA did in spades) we need the emotional investment represented in the narrative as well. And to be honest, as great as the story was with it's authenticity in voice acting and more mature take, it merely a few mild swear words away from a cookie cutter comic book story. So, I'm hoping AC's themes are much more cerebral and psychological.

  8. #8
    Originally Posted by The New Blueguy
    Also I agree that facial expression doesn't match the scene at all.
    To me it looks like he wants to cry but he is sucking it up like a man.

  9. #9
    Edit:
    IGN's Take On Why We Can't Just Shut-up And Have Fun.

  10. #10
    Oh come on, Fish. Of all the things, wrong with AA (which are almost none outsode of the bosses), you have to admit the story even for Paul Dini's awesome writing was very safe and almost cookie cutter. If we get a more psychological story I'm all for it.

  11. #11
    I could see a game like this.The joker has an 8-year old heiress strapped to a bomb.He gives you a location that she's at,but he also gives you a second location.If you were Batman,your first step is to think like the joker,however,with a psyche as fractured as the joker's,you really cannot think like him.Which brings me to the next step,a judgement call.You can try to reason as much as you like,but in the end,you have a 1 in 3 chance of saving her.One option:you take the joker's first location,and she's there or she's not,in which case she dies,you take the 2nd location she's either there or she's not.The 3rd option,the joker gave you two false locations,and let's you see her get blown up on tv just for laughs.There is no failing,only consequences.
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  12. #12
    Originally Posted by The New Blueguy
    Oh come on, Fish. Of all the things, wrong with AA (which are almost none outsode of the bosses), you have to admit the story even for Paul Dini's awesome writing was very safe and almost cookie cutter. If we get a more psychological story I'm all for it.
    My point being that AA was a total risk in almost every way from a developmental point of view and even in the story(which was a completely new batverse on it's own). I feel that despite the risks all these things worked out. Our complaining aside, how many of us have played through more than twice? That's saying something about a game in this day of "everything must be CoD/Halo online" era. I'm sure we can all agree that the game is fun. Which I firmly believe that the level of fun of AA outweighs the complaining that IGN is throwing at us about wanting to just play a comic arc. I'd rather play through something new or even similar, but still new. It's more refreshing(as much as I could watch Todd die over and over) In short: Trying to cater to both the comic and gamer crowd at the same time will ALWAYS end in someone being upset.
    But to each his own

  13. #13
    Originally Posted by The New Blueguy
    Oh come on, Fish. Of all the things, wrong with AA (which are almost none outsode of the bosses), you have to admit the story even for Paul Dini's awesome writing was very safe and almost cookie cutter. If we get a more psychological story I'm all for it.
    I have to agree with this statement. In addition I think we will get a much deeper pyschological story with Hugo in the mix, that last trailer with him torturing that guy was just mindnumbing.
    Whatever happened to the American dream? It came true, you're looking at it .

  14. #14
    IMO we don't need "A Death in the Family" in Arkham City.

  15. #15
    That wasn't the point of the article, guy. They're just saying that even when comic book games capture the character and license from a gameplay standpoint, the story is usually safe and uncomplicated.

  16. #16
    I agree in terms of plot, which is why I'm looking forward to the promise of the sequel with Hugo Strange. The entire Venom storyline in AA was just too generic and uninteresting. In fact, the psychological collectables were the only bits of story that I thoroughly liked.

    I do agree with the article: even when comic book games succeed in terms of gameplay, they come up short in exploring the story in a different medium. I'd love to play a video game that has more wide-ranging psychological implications that are incorporated into the gameplay -- the Scarecrow stuff in AA was merely scratching the surface.

    Still, the article isn't hating on the game. Far from it.

  17. #17
    Originally Posted by The New Blueguy
    That wasn't the point of the article, guy. They're just saying that even when comic book games capture the character and license from a gameplay standpoint, the story is usually safe and uncomplicated.
    Who cares? Story is just a vehicle for the gameplay, its not like it has to be good.
    "Sleep? That bed is a coffin and those are winding sheets. I do not sleep I die." - Captain Ahab

  18. #18
    guys imagine a game with a story line of "a serious house on serious earth"

    oh wait? didn't they already do that?
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  19. #19
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    Originally Posted by Old_BenKenobi
    Who cares? Story is just a vehicle for the gameplay, its not like it has to be good.
    I'd wager that most, if not all regulars, on this board care, definitely most, if not nearly all, of the comic base this game appeals to care, and a larger portion of those buying the game in general care more than you're giving them credit for.

    I certainly beg to differ. If the story in AA sucked, but the gameplay was the best thing since sliced bread, I still doubt very much I would have completed it, or if so, would have done so only once, chuckling at how ridiculous what I was watching was. I definitely wouldn't replay the game, nor want to buy a sequel to it. There are tons of gamers out there who'd be inclined to do as I would, also. I don't know what your aversion is to appreciation of story in a game, even though you acknowledge the level of role playing and immersion you get being a character in a game, living that out. How can you love being a character in a world and setting that doesn't matter? These two things: character AND story (which encompasses setting, motivation and purpose, intelligence and choices of your character and your enemies, etc) pretty much go hand in hand. Sure, you can have fun playing a game mindlessly without care for any reason for what's going on, but I argue you then aren't really immersing yourself into the character on the screen hacking and slashing/beating your enemies senseless. You're just playing and having fun. To truly feel like Batman, you have to also care for the world Batman lives within, and this only happens if the story and presentation of it matter. And IGN, nor any other publication worth anything, would have given AA the score it got if the story and presentation stunk. There were flaws and they were noted, as movies are when they're reviewed, or books. However, the story was good, good enough to make the entire package worthy to get a score on par with game of the year contenders, in some cases. It wasn't just due to the stealth tactics and the free-flow combat that the game scored so high. And it certainly would be a disservice to not only Paul Dini and Rocksteady for taking the time to make sure the story was good enough to work, but countless game writers, directors, and developers as well. The days of mediocre story and voice acting in games getting by are mostly over, not for anything approaching game of the year. While movies have consistently gone down, by and large, in the great storytelling department, stories in video games, and how they're told, have been getting better and better. There's nothing better than playing a game where story is great and everything feels right playing as the character I am playing as. It's like getting lost in a great novel, but in real time before you eyes.

    Anyway, on the article, itself, I'm just going to repost my take on this topic from the other thread in the off topic section, since both threads haven't been merged and I don't feel like typing it up anew:

    A great story in any medium makes that which you are reading/watching/playing that much better. It's only common sense. The more believable a character's motivations are, even if they're you're own as you role play as Batman, or whomever, the more realistic the world and setting you're in under the rules of that world, the better the immersion.

    That's all a basic common sense position that didn't need a full article to cover, like half of IGN's articles of late. As far as the secret identity thing, not every great Batman comic, or any other super hero story, covers Batman wrestling with his secret identity. A great story can just revolve around Batman in the suit the whole time, or Superman, or your made-up character in DCUO. However, DCUO is less on story by default, so that's moot there. Yes, it'd be absolutely awesome to play as Batman in a Heavy Rain detective noir-like slower paced game, that's like a living, breathing movie, or novel, but it's also just as amazing playing an action/adventure game like AA, given this is more blockbuster than slow noir detective novel. So be it.

    In other words: you can make both scenarios great. I do agree that, from the story point of it, AA could have been better in parts and presentation, but it was pretty darn good with what we got. It looks to be that Rocksteady is trying to make story immersion even better a priority for Arkham City, so I think we'll be pleasantly surprised. I do think that superhero games, as we already knew, could be better on the whole from their story to their gameplay, so again, we didn't need yet another lengthy article reiterating that point (and blaming it on story, alone)....

  20. #20
    Originally Posted by The Hylden
    I'd wager that most, if not all regulars, on this board care, definitely most, if not nearly all, of the comic base this game appeals to care, and a larger portion of those buying the game in general care more than you're giving them credit for.

    I certainly beg to differ. If the story in AA sucked, but the gameplay was the best thing since sliced bread, I still doubt very much I would have completed it, or if so, would have done so only once, chuckling at how ridiculous what I was watching was. I definitely wouldn't replay the game, nor want to buy a sequel to it. There are tons of gamers out there who'd be inclined to do as I would, also. I don't know what your aversion is to appreciation of story in a game, even though you acknowledge the level of role playing and immersion you get being a character in a game, living that out. How can you love being a character in a world and setting that doesn't matter? These two things: character AND story (which encompasses setting, motivation and purpose, intelligence and choices of your character and your enemies, etc) pretty much go hand in hand. Sure, you can have fun playing a game mindlessly without care for any reason for what's going on, but I argue you then aren't really immersing yourself into the character on the screen hacking and slashing/beating your enemies senseless. You're just playing and having fun. To truly feel like Batman, you have to also care for the world Batman lives within, and this only happens if the story and presentation of it matter. And IGN, nor any other publication worth anything, would have given AA the score it got if the story and presentation stunk. There were flaws and they were noted, as movies are when they're reviewed, or books. However, the story was good, good enough to make the entire package worthy to get a score on par with game of the year contenders, in some cases. It wasn't just due to the stealth tactics and the free-flow combat that the game scored so high. And it certainly would be a disservice to not only Paul Dini and Rocksteady for taking the time to make sure the story was good enough to work, but countless game writers, directors, and developers as well. The days of mediocre story and voice acting in games getting by are mostly over, not for anything approaching game of the year. While movies have consistently gone down, by and large, in the great storytelling department, stories in video games, and how they're told, have been getting better and better. There's nothing better than playing a game where story is great and everything feels right playing as the character I am playing as. It's like getting lost in a great novel, but in real time before you eyes.
    When I'm playing as Batman I'm having fun because being Batman is fun. The quality of the story has little to no bearing on that. The only important thing the story does in a game is present a sequence of events that are fun to play through. The actual writing behind it, the justifications for these events, are extraneous. In Arkham Asylum it was of a very high caliber and all the writers did great jobs, but it was still bonus material. Some of it was even presented as literal bonus material in the form of the patient interviews.

    For the most part, games are bogged down by their stories. Too often gameplay is gimped to conform to the story, and even more often the actual story telling, the way the story is told, bogs it down even further by giving us big fat cutscenes. My two favourite games of the year were Red Dead Redemption and Donkey Kong Country Returns. One was about being a cowboy, the other was about being a gorilla. One game had a big focus on story, the other had barely any story at all. One game included many boring missions who's only purpose was to fill out the story, the other game just decided to throw in stuff that was fun without any regards to a narrative. Both games excelled at their goals, with Red Dead truly making me feel like a cowboy and Donkey Kong truly making me feel like a gorilla. But pound for pound I had a lot more fun with Donkey Kong because it wasn't limited by a story. It didn't care about creating a sweeping epic dealing with mature themes and complex situations, it just cared about doing its job: Being a fun game.

    Stories in videogames are a lot like stories in pornos: You expect one to be there but it doesn't have to be any good.

    To feel immersed in a game, to feel like you are the character, isn't reliant on the story as much as it is on everything else. Gameplay, art design, animations, music, sound effects, voice acting, etc. Case in point, the Arkham Asylum challenge rooms. Those scenarios had no story and yet you still felt like Batman when you played them because the gameplay was so in tune to the nature of the character, and because the fantastic art and sound work drew you in emotionally.
    "Sleep? That bed is a coffin and those are winding sheets. I do not sleep I die." - Captain Ahab

  21. #21
    Originally Posted by Old_BenKenobi
    When I'm playing as Batman I'm having fun because being Batman is fun. The quality of the story has little to no bearing on that. The only important thing the story does in a game is present a sequence of events that are fun to play through. The actual writing behind it, the justifications for these events, are extraneous. In Arkham Asylum it was of a very high caliber and all the writers did great jobs, but it was still bonus material. Some of it was even presented as literal bonus material in the form of the patient interviews.

    For the most part, games are bogged down by their stories. Too often gameplay is gimped to conform to the story, and even more often the actual story telling, the way the story is told, bogs it down even further by giving us big fat cutscenes. My two favourite games of the year were Red Dead Redemption and Donkey Kong Country Returns. One was about being a cowboy, the other was about being a gorilla. One game had a big focus on story, the other had barely any story at all. One game included many boring missions who's only purpose was to fill out the story, the other game just decided to throw in stuff that was fun without any regards to a narrative. Both games excelled at their goals, with Red Dead truly making me feel like a cowboy and Donkey Kong truly making me feel like a gorilla. But pound for pound I had a lot more fun with Donkey Kong because it wasn't limited by a story. It didn't care about creating a sweeping epic dealing with mature themes and complex situations, it just cared about doing its job: Being a fun game.

    Stories in videogames are a lot like stories in pornos: You expect one to be there but it doesn't have to be any good.

    To feel immersed in a game, to feel like you are the character, isn't reliant on the story as much as it is on everything else. Gameplay, art design, animations, music, sound effects, voice acting, etc. Case in point, the Arkham Asylum challenge rooms. Those scenarios had no story and yet you still felt like Batman when you played them because the gameplay was so in tune to the nature of the character, and because the fantastic art and sound work drew you in emotionally.
    Well said.

  22. #22
    I understand and respect your opinion, Ben, but but I totally disagree with you. Personally, my life is boring as sin. Not that many friends to hang with and not nearly enough money to hang with friends and what not if I had them. Video games are an escape for me. I really enjoyed Arkham fromstart to finish and even play through again multple times after 100%'ing the game on my first run though it. However, as I reflected on the story even way before that article, I felt it was a bit safe. Not bad, but safe. I felt it could have done more emotionally.

    Besides, stories can be great in games but I think where you and I would agree is that the approach to storytelling games hasn't evolved. When look at games like Heavy Rain or even Arkham Asylum, the best thing they did was that they didn't do the standard level>cutscene>level>cutscene. This needs to change and I think the best part of AC will be seeing the change. Little things like the interview tapes and the secret of Arkham tomes can go a long way. Even if they did get the idea from Bioshock.

  23. #23
    Idk about you guys but when i played Mw2 it wasnt the gameplay that emersed me into the campaign. It was the story tone and the music. When i played Batman the story had a key element as well, you cant understand the Joker's character with out a proper story to back it up
    Click to see my video projects --->>> Dufase19089

  24. #24
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    Originally Posted by AngelsDontKill6
    guys imagine a game with a story line of "a serious house on serious earth"

    oh wait? didn't they already do that?
    Made it mahself.

  25. #25
    Originally Posted by JackWinz
    Golden.

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