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Thread: Kain's Lament: Fan Art

  1. #751
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    Hey, anything new with this? You can't stop until you make a scale model of the Elder God! And I mean his ENTIRE BODY!

  2. #752
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    Things have been pretty hard lately. My dad has had health issues which we're still dealing with. However, I am still fighting the good fight on Legacy of Kain stuff, when I can. Here's a little tease of what is to come:




    The past couple of months, I've been crafting an entire map of the Pillars and surrounding locations in Unit 5. Specifically, this map unifies the areas, paths, directions, and landmarks of Blood Omen, Soul Reaver 2, and Defiance. Soul Reaver 2 was the main template for the area, with Blood Omen 1's map the master world template that this is can be drawn onto. I will show actual footage of this soon, hopefully tomorrow from when this is posted (there is a lot of footage to go through and edit). In addition to the map and the Pillars, themselves, I have the fully armored human Kain in all his regalia, with sword, and elder Kain within the scene. I'll also be showing the fully aged Soul Reaver.

    Over a year ago, a few select fans and myself collaborated to construct the definitive map of Nosgoth, which Square Enix asked us to do in order for the now cancelled 'Nosgoth' by Psyonix studios to have a truly authentic map of the world and within the series. Alas, that was still tied up within the legal department when the game was cancelled, so it never was adopted into the canon of the series by Square. However, for my purposes, and other projects, like Soul Revenant, this map is the quintessential map of Nosgoth. Collaborating with those fans, those run the Wiki and a few others (that I will name soon), I was tasked to do the final artwork, so this scene now follows from the extra curricular task within that project, which I took upon myself to do, in breaking down and rationalizing all of the paths seen within the games and trying to unify them logically within the actual world space, as if these could have existed even with just the map from the first Blood Omen game. It wound up working out nicely.

    Zbrush used to sculpt the base of the Pillars area. World Machine used to procedurally finalize most of the weathering and final forms. Zbrush and within Unity used for further detailing.

  3. #753
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    So, here is that scene I promised, recreating the Pillars from the Blood Omen era and prior and surrounding areas/paths in Unity 5:




    More from my website:

    The Hylden-Dimension


    In addition, you can see the map those of us who helped council about lore stuff also worked on a map for the game, 'Nosgoth,' which unfortunately never was implemented with the cancellation. It was also to be included into the canon of Legacy of Kain, but again, never went through. So, now it's being used for my projects and for Soul Revenant. I'm also offering it up for fans, in general, to get a better understanding of the world of Nosgoth:


    Soul Reaver era map

    (click image to enlarge)

    Blood Omen era map

    (click image to enlarge)

    More about that collaboration can be found on my site here:

    The Hylden-Dimension


    The Blood Omen 1 era map is complete, for the most part. I might forest it up a lot and remove some of the blood dot locators for locations from the future. The Soul Reaver era map, besides things like Sommerdamm and the location of Valeholm, is pretty much as done as it will get. Little tweaks from here.

    I'll be uploading more renders of human Kain soon from Marmoset, of his final sword, the Pillar Guardian statue, and of a fully aged Soul Reaver.
    Last edited by The_Hylden; 22nd May 2016 at 05:54. Reason: Uploaded correct SR era map

  4. #754
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    Here's the full render of human Kain in Marmoset Toolbag 2, and his long sword:

    Human Kain Full Armor Hylden-Dimension


    Teaser pics:


    (click image to enlarge)


    (click image to enlarge)

  5. #755
    I love the models and the details you've put into them, there's just one thing that makes Kain a bit more uncanny - the hair.

    It looks like the scalpel is drenched with Jersey Shore amount of hair-wax, no proper hairstyle hair-strain is entirely "slicked"/flattened unless it's a movie, and the expectation(s) of Kain at least having a few strands are bent-ish waving due to body movement(s) or air. While his hair was quite flat in the games it's "excusable" due to the console hardware constraints handling the polygons - Defiance is after all 13 years old.

    , it's been 13 years.

    I love how you captured Human-Kain's grim face, it makes sense considering the character portrayed.

    Edit:

    I realized the post made me sound way critical, didn't mean to do so. It's just one thing I couldn't put my eyes off.
    Last edited by The_Hylden; 19th May 2016 at 00:31.

  6. #756
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    Thanks for the comment. Human Kain actually does have strands that aren't flat back there. Take a look at the closeups and from the side and back and you'll see them. You should be able to see them in the teaser pic above, actually. I had more in the previous updates of him. However, these are planes with an alpha mask, not actual strands of hair, and the shadows in Marmoset (the renderer) were large and washing out the face. I might be able to get the strands' shadows to behave better in Unity.

    I will also note that while I get your point about real hair and how it behaves, mine is not the only character with hair behaving better than possibly in reality. Check out some renders of Emhyr var Emreis from Witcher 3: Reminded me of Kain when I played the game, too.

    Or even Geralt, himself. As for elder vampire Kain, he's got the power of vampire demi god hair to stay perfectly in that pony tail Not all strands for him are straight either, however, if you see the back and sides. Some things are still not perfect, and hair in games is one of them. It's getting better, though.

  7. #757
    Fair enough, I just reacted because Human-Kain looked drenched from pre-frontal cortex to the top of the scalp with hair-wax and Vampire-Kains hair looks like water had been dropped on top and never dried off :P

  8. #758
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    I'll chalk it up to being on the trail for ages. It's not like even nobles bathed regularly. It's that natural, sweaty grease gel the body produces to give it that lovely Fabio sheen Actually, part of that probably is also that it's black. Both are extremes of hair color (black for human Kain, white for vampire Kain), and they're harder to get to show up without a lot some washed out effect, I think. I'll probably work on more later.


    Further updates. Shame I can't make one about every day, or so, but here's the last major one. Renders of the fully aged Soul Reaver and Pillar Guardian statue:

    Hylden-Dimension - Soul Reaver and Pillar Guardian statue

    Teaser pics:


    (click image to enlarge)


    (click image to enlarge)

    More images at the link above. Now, I'll be finally back to sculpting Wraith Raziel and Ariel. Both were started months back, before issues with my family happened. Raziel is coming along pretty nicely. I'm just finishing the major muscle and bone forms.

  9. #759
    It just came to me, while you've done human and older Vampire versions, what about pre-evolved Vampire? (The Blood Omen 1 era)

  10. #760
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    and blood omen 2 kain, which i am most eager to see. bo2 kain is just such a bizarre middle point of the character that a realistic version of him is going to be very interesting. i really would like to know what the designers where thinking when the came up with that armor. the designs in that whole game is nuts.
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  11. #761
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    Yes, all of that is on the list. I've been trying to get wraith Raziel done for Soul Revenant since showing my Unity 5 Pillars video, human Kain, etc. I'm edging closer to when I'll be able to show renders of the blue guy. I have Ariel I'm doing for SR, too, and down the line the brethren and their evolved forms. So many models, sometimes I don't know exactly how I am going to do all of this.

    Anyway, my goal is to do fledgling vampire Kain and his BO1 and 2 armors/outfits/weapons.

  12. #762
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    Don't forget that 100% scale model of the Elder God!

  13. #763
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    will the blood omen 2 kain only be an armor change? or will the character model reflect his changes. he did have those huge claws. and he seemed kinda gaunt as well. oh and those blue/gray eyes.
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  14. #764
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    Franc, who's also doing all of the environment and maps, he actually already did the EG for Soul Revenant. I can maybe tackle him/it at some point, just for you, Zulg. As for scale, the great thing about digital art is scale is relative


    BO2 Kain, well, I'll get to my plans for him when I can get back to Kain's model. No, he won't have gray eyes. The team messed that up. Yellow with the blood red border, all the way.


    I'm going to be posting some Wraith Raziel renders soon, as soon as I sort through the pics. He's fully done and rigged. In the meantime:


  15. #765
    I'll spout something out of the blue here: Has the idea struck someone else but me to mod Shadow Of Mordor and replace the main character with Kain?

    No? Just me then? Alright, I figured the gameplay with the sword-fighting to be satisfying and since Kain in his own right been trained in the art Lore-wise as Human - makes the game perfect for modding and so create an uncanny version of Dead Sun. If you recall the article on Eurogamer (*wink* http://goo.gl/GRt05s ) the intention with Dead Sun was to have Legacy Of Kain in open world but was scrapped because of, in the minds of business-men, pre-conceived notions rendered from previous titles of other franchises (Castlevania: LoS, Darksiders 1) within the "Hack'n'Slash" genre didn't do favorable at the time.

    Would be great if someone made a model, applied it to the game, upload a youtube video and see the chaos unleash itself.

    Just a thought.

  16. #766
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    Wraith Raziel is live:

    Redeemer and Destroyer

    And since I'm having issues with the galleries there, some of the pics are showing up small, since they are manually inserted. Here's a few at larger sizes:


    (click image to enlarge)


    (click image to enlarge)


    (click image to enlarge)


    (click image to enlarge)

    In remaking wraith Raziel, I wanted to keep as much of the GlyphX cinematic model in mind, but also try for as much enhancements to realism as felt right. For instance, the GlyphX model was not modeled to be what vampire Raziel would have melted away into. The proportions are very different on things. His ear has migrated up his face; his arms are a lot longer and his legs are a lot shorter. Just for a couple of examples. Perhaps this was to reflect that his visage is warped due to waking up in the Spectral Realm and its distortion, along with this being basically what Raziel thinks he should look like. Anyway, for this recreation, I've made this model fit proportionally within the vampire model. So, this is what would be left over if his skin and flesh burnt away.

    Modeled in Zbrush, Maya; textured in Zbrush and Photoshop; Rendered in Marmoset Toolbag 2. This is the real time model, rigged and posed out of Maya.
    Last edited by The_Hylden; 23rd Jul 2016 at 00:23.

  17. #767
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    I guess my joke didn't come across like I hoped. I was joking about making a model to scale to your Kain and now Raziel, with his entire ridiculously huge body, every mile of it. I can only imagine how long it would take to make something that big.

    Great job with Raziel. Do you use photographs of actual objects and insert them in somehow, or do you draw them yourself, based on real things? I was wondering about Raziel's banner there since it looks so realistic.

  18. #768
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    Yeah, I did get the joke. I was being pedantic, heh

    What I have done here with Raziel's cloak has been about the same on Kain and vamp Raziel's capes before. I first get the symbol sculpted in slightly raised using an alpha of it. For this, it couldn't be a straight alpha of the symbol, as it's warped and distorted over the cloth. I brought in the image of the GlyphX model and lined it up over the cowl model, superimposed, and drew mostly to that, cleaned it up, and exported that in Photoshop as an alpha mask. I brought it back in after further cleaning it up in Photosop, and brushed it lightly over the cowl where it was about on the GlyphX model. Then I painted the cowl a flat dark brown, and the stark white in the raised symbol area. I can then in Zbrush mask by color intensity so I can add in the cloth details. Using a texture, you can map the detail onto the surface, lighter areas are raised and darker ones stay the same. So, I basically punched in a sculpted detail of cloth into the mesh, and similar for the symbol pattern. I then can mask by different things, like cavity and smoothness, so get different results painting in the crevices, like I guess airbrushing on an actual sculpture.

    So, to distill that: I use some textures and alphas to get the sculpted detail, and some manual sculpting for extra wear and tear, and then I can use masks to paint differences in height to flesh out the color and make it feel realistic. The additional maps, normal maps and specular/gloss further help define the material and make it feel real when rendered.

    Here's the high resolution sculpture and color added, to see it's as much physically sculpting the form as it is painting it to look like something:


    (click image to enlarge)

  19. #769
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    OK, I have to admit I have no idea what most of that means, but are you pretty much saying that it has more to do with the model itself? You managed to put the pattern on the model, and so then it's just colored afterword? Looking at the picture you provided, I get the feeling that's the case. So there was a smooth model, then you managed to put the symbol and the cloth texture over it? If it's too much to explain, that's fine, I was just wondering about this and how it manages to look so realistic.

  20. #770
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    It was entertaining the way the camera guy who filmed that video was stumbling around drunk looking up into trees way more than the average traveler would and then he kept walking into the human Kain's face like he was trying to plant a kiss. And Kain was putting up with it!!! which implies the vid was made by someone very high ranking in the aristocracy. Also it was exciting when you zoomed up above the hills for a bat's eye view, it became like a bat flight video for a sec. More emphasis on the batflight is what could bring this series back, I'm sure of it. Like how that one Prince of Persia game became 85% wall-running. Yes. I'll forward this to Square. (secretly)

  21. #771
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    Thanks, yeah that framerate performance is a killer. It's like Bill Murray in Groundhog Day, "Drunk's more fun." If that was a camera guy, he'd have to be on something like an overdose of meds, or something. I hope I can smooth that out.

    Zulg, yeah, the way I'm working is sculpting in the detail into the model first before really painting it, besides flat colors only -- a flat brown and a flat off white for the symbol. Once the detail of the base fabric is sculpted on the model, then I can mask the crevices and raised areas of the model in different ways so I can paint into the indented parts of the model, or the raised parts, to break up the color, and then I further added in simultaneous sculpting of damage and dirt, while also painting it. The option is there, which I do use later on, to paint and sculpt at the same time.

    Now, for the arm bands, it was different. I couldn't add the initial fabric patterns uniformly, since the wraps are at different angles and changing around the arms. So, I sculpted those patterns in manually, slowly, around each wrapping. I sculpted in damage, for example frayed edges and torn parts in the same way, slowly around each part of the wrapping. The arms are also a-symmetrical, so I had to do this for each arm separately. Using flat color to begin with, I could mask out and sculpt spots like the areas where the brown arm wraps are torn away and the whiter under wraps show through up below the elbow. Turned out the arm bands were really the hardest part, due to all of that.

    I do use Photoshop later on to further make things pop and look realistic. I hope I explained it better for you.

  22. #772
    Do you use bumpmaps? I remember one guy at work (maybe an external contractor) once got told off for modeling a puddle of spilled ketchup with individual polygons for the raised parts and the same for an emblem/mural thing which killed the framerate for that area. Anything with really subtle ridges like that is normally done with bumpmaps unless it's a prerendered cutscene.
    "If events are matched closely enough to course, they have a way of restructuring themselves to familiar outcomes." ~ Scorpius, Farscape

  23. #773
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    Yes, I bake off normal maps. The whole reason to get the high resolution model as high as possible with the detail sculpted into it in Zbrush is to bake off the detail into normal and displacement maps for the low polygon real time model, which is the model I'm rendering out of Marmoset.

    This is the low polygon cowl, which you can see is just a flat bit of polygons (448 quads):


    (click image to enlarge)
    Last edited by The_Hylden; 2nd Aug 2016 at 04:19.

  24. #774
    Quote Originally Posted by The_Hylden View Post
    Yes, I bake off normal maps. The whole reason to get the high resolution model as high as possible with the detail sculpted into it in Zbrush is to bake off the detail into normal and displacement maps for the low polygon real time model, which is the model I'm rendering out of Marmoset.

    This is the low polygon cowl, which you can see is just a flat bit of polygons (448 quads):


    (click image to enlarge)
    Does that mean Zbsush is able to figure out which polygons are subtle enough to use normal maps and which need to stay as polys? That's really clever if it's able to do that.

    BTW, I was telling the Soul Revenant programmer I'm eager to get some practice with Unity and would like to try writing a custom shader for the dissolve/phase-through/disintegrate effect and make a programmatically generated Archimedes spiral for the health coil.

    If you're including marmosets in the game, make sure they stay hidden.
    "If events are matched closely enough to course, they have a way of restructuring themselves to familiar outcomes." ~ Scorpius, Farscape

  25. #775
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    What Zbrush does is subdivide the model, but keep the lower subdivisions accessible. So, unlike in 3DS Max, or Maya, where you'd have to bring in a low poly model, and have a high poly one, then set up a cage on the low poly to bake off the normal map from the high poly to the low poly, Zbrush just skips those steps and bakes the normal map from the highest subdivision level down to the lowest, or whichever level you ask it to. One quad polygon subdivided becomes four, then 16, and on up. The borders of the original polygons are understood up the higher levels. It's the same as baking from the cage in other programs, but it's contained in one model. Mudbox does the same thing. Of course, the model needs to have a UV texture layout to do this.

    Glad to hear you want to help SR with that stuff. Sounds great

    Heh, yes it's a fitting renderer to use.

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