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Thread: Kain's Lament: Fan Art

  1. #426
    You can turn them off? o_O By god, why didn't I know that before?
    Yeah, the game is on the rails, but just hiding the purpose of some things in it and expecting the player to guess outta the blue what and where they are supposed to do doesn't rectify that or make hodling a button into a puzzle.

  2. #427
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Hylden View Post
    No, I'm not going to make multiple rainbow versions of Raziel. We'll find a happy consensus on color when he's ready to show.
    I'm just suggesting, though. I see no reason not to, unless it's tiresome for you. Since you already got many people following your work here and practically it's the most updated topic with the actual work (and people being critics a bit heh) perhaps it would be nice to offer several models and people might mention what's good or bad, as usual.

    I don't know why anyone would want an unedited Defiance Raziel with just wing upgrades. The model's textures are heavily pixelated and caricaturish. The whole point of an HD upgrade is to bring these characters into the high rez world of now, as much as can be.
    May I ask are you officially entitled to do a HD retexture of the models or is it just your free will?

    Speaking of stripes, I guarantee that the default Raziel will look more stripy than the version I'm painting
    Anyway, he'll be done soon enough to see what I mean.
    Ok, I'm just happy with anything apart from those green graffiti Sorry for bothering.

  3. #428
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    I don't mind suggestions or critiques. Within reason, if I feel it can help make things better, I'll implement it, or try it, but I listen to all of it.

    I'm not making a version of Raziel for every person that thinks he's too blue, too purple, less purple, etc. That is going way overboard. I'm not out to make every single fan's every wish perfect. I couldn't do that if I tried. What I did with Kain and Raziel previously, I'll do this time. I'll post it here, get feedback, and respond accordingly. What I will offer as an alternative skin, like I did with Kain, I'll offer a Raziel without the cloak. When not feeding, he'll have a floating head, able to see his nose and teeth, etc. When feeding, the model changes and his upper body pops into view, so you'll see the upper back, his pecks, shoulders, and so on.

    Entitled? I'll just assume that wasn't the word you were looking for, but I have not been asked by CD or Eidos to do this, no. I am doing this of my own will and on my own time/dime.

    I don't know what green graffiti you're referring to, but anyway, like I said, just be a bit patient until you see the result What I've said for Kain applies here, again. It was impossible before to paint him properly by just painting on the 2d texture files. Painting on the model, in real time, over the actual form, and in actual lighting, is completely different. Not only can I paint accurate details, bu I can achieve accurate color tones, saturation, contrast, etc. It's the only way to achieve the right results.



    I uploaded the Kain skin packs again last night, so both his regular version and the one without the cape now have all of the revised other stuff with them -- checkpoints, bats, bat symbol, jump symbol, etc., etc.

  4. #429
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Hylden View Post
    What I will offer as an alternative skin, like I did with Kain, I'll offer a Raziel without the cloak.
    - DREAMS DO COME TRUE. pleeeease for the love of Janos do this mod!!!

    I don't know what green graffiti you're referring to..
    - he's referring to the the bat beacon.
    "are you trying to bore me into submission?" ~ Raziel/Defiance
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  5. #430
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    @Hylden : Well, ok. I just know that people would enjoy a simple diversity to choose from. Never thought that you'd go around, fulfilling fan-wishes. After all, people can do that alone since I've seen some very talented ones. I wish that they also do some work.

    Offtopic : Yes, Entitled is the exact word I was looking for, thank you
    I would've used "eligible" but meh - Entitled sounds more official. It's a good thing to know that you care enough to work this in free time.

    As for the painting, unless you had the original mold for texture for paint and not the 3d repaint. But that's just too much of a work even with modern software and there're already much better 3D molds for this type of repainting so I get what's your frustration a bit. Anyway, happy repainting.

  6. #431
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    I also want a Kain with no cape, a huge gold medallion on a gold necklace, and tons of chest hair.

  7. #432
    Quote Originally Posted by Zulgbrtzchllha View Post
    I also want a Kain with no cape, a huge gold medallion on a gold necklace, and tons of chest hair.
    Plus a mohawk and some Mr.T sound bytes when hes fighting! Do eet!

  8. #433
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    So, it's that time again


    Raziel, the blue wonder, is finished. Without further ado:


    Ingame:


    (click image to enlarge)


    (click image to enlarge)

    Cutscenes:


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    His color alters per cutscene, picks up the ambient light very well:


    (click image to enlarge)


    (click image to enlarge)

    In the red-lit Catacombs, and other places, he starts rockin' some purple, while he's a deeper blue in the overcast of the Cemetery and Pillars area.

    Then he's a lighter shade here:


    (click image to enlarge)


    (click image to enlarge)

    When coloring him, I paid extreme close attention to the subtleties of his shading. There are a wide range of blues. A deeper, just outside purple, a more rich blue, a grayish blue, some aqua, and they all play off of each other, making him a bit more this, or a bit more that, depending on the lighting. While the SR1 intro version was a lighter shade, with a bit more aqua blending in (I think more to do with lighting than the actual color of him), he's a bit over-saturated deep blue in SR2's intro. I took up a happy medium, paying attention as much as I could to the various forms of him and what they all shared in common. For instance, here was his SR2 model:


    (click image to enlarge)

    ...which is far different than the SR1 color, at least how it was lit:


    (click image to enlarge)

    But, of course he was being lit spectral-like, so that's why.

    Every area that could be altered to make him more like the Intro CGI version was. His brows, which never responded right before, have finally been tempered. The main reason for his huge eyes are both the large, off-white inner eye whole they gave him, but also it was due to the large shape of the brow. I slimmed it back down to earth and you see have shaped his eye properly, finally. I could never have done that before. In fact, you should see his face texture. In the 2d file, lines are bent and stretched and a millimeter thin into a mess on the cheek and such. Again, it doesn't matter, though. It only matters how he looks on the model. Painting over uvs in ways they were never modeled to go can only be achieved properly like this. The level of subtle detail I can get is great. So time consuming, but great, lol



    (click image to enlarge)


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    You can see all the little muscle details on the back of the leg. The CGI model's anatomy has been derided, but truthfully, I didn't have to use much of my previous attempt for muscle reference. The intro model is actually pretty accurate as far as the muscle groups. It's only the rib area that was always a bit odd, and the double spine is unique and meant to be, along with the larger forearms and feet, but other than that, I had no real diversion I had to make anatomy-wise from the CGI model. It wraps him quite nicely, too. I got rid of that large floating rib with an alpha mask. It was just too wide, too comically big. I liked the attempt of making it, but in reality, his floating ribs would have, well, torn away anyway (floated, right? ). Having the three ribs there right before the floaters is enough, and is one more than the two the CGI model had.

    I think I'm typing rather incoherent suddenly Too many hours on this thing.



    (click image to enlarge)

    I love this angle. It reminds me of Raziel watching Kain in teh Chronoplast int he SR2 intro, here:


    (click image to enlarge)


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    The wings are made this time the shape I wanted to make them, by removing the alpha mask and making a new one, after finding out how much of the file is used It's the very shape of his wing from the intros. Every hole, tear, vein and wrinkle, pretty much as best it gets. I even added the indentured part where his bone emerged on his body, and I added the hole on the back, too. The hole and the tear from where the wings should ride up the triangular muscle back there from the spine upward. These wings aren't attached to the model, so they float from this position and almost horizontal. I don't know why they did that still. But, anyway, I wanted to show on the wing and in the back the fact that his bones where torn from him and so they left their mark. The wings have a slight brown tinge in that spot, riding down.

    I'd have to show the texture file, so they wouldn't be so bent and such here, but they look just like the shape seen here:


    (click image to enlarge)

    Raziel in Spectral:


    (click image to enlarge)

    The cloak, arm wrappings, all made with blending the painted form with actual textures. Worn fabric for the cloak and worn leather for the wrappings. The one remaining partial band of metal on his upper forearm is now corroded. The SR1 model had it dingy gold, but the armored bands over the elbow and arm he wore were black. It looks like in SR2's intro, they made it more corroded possible bronze, so that's what I went with this time. The greaves were in need of real metal corrosion, making them look like gold, or bronze that's been on the sea floor for hundreds of years. I seemed to have tinged these areas greenish before, and that wasn't necessary. I have them with their right color this time. I've also redone the entire top half under the cloak. Let me tell you how annoying it is that they decided this time to, for whatever reason, use two models for Raziel. One that's cloaked, and under the cloak, has no upper half body, and one that's pulling the cloak open to feed and shows the body. This means I had to grab and paint over two models, and try and keep the files separate, because even though in the game they use the same all loving files, when you export from painting over the model in the 3D program, one part of the model gets lost if it's the cloaked version. He doesn't have the coordinates for the open cloak, or the upper portion of his chest, so those pieces get left out. I overwrote the files a couple of times, one instance more major than the others... But, it's fine... It's done


    Here's his composite from inside 3D Coat, again in link form, because they are huge renders (scaled down from what they were to be able to upload them, or they'd be even huger ):


    http://imageshack.us/a/img4/5097/raz...tecloakedi.png

    The wings, because their surface area is a large rectangle, parts of that screw up the viewing of the model's back inside the program, but it's fine in the game, of course.

    http://imageshack.us/a/img593/141/ra...iumcloaked.png

    Again, the wing shape from SR1:


    (click image to enlarge)


    Here's his arms and legs up close:

    http://imageshack.us/a/img109/8128/r...bandsclose.png

    http://imageshack.us/a/img16/3525/ra...eavesclose.png

    How about some comparisons? The side view of SR1's version:


    (click image to enlarge)

    His claws are a blend of painting the form and using actual animal tusks, which I think are exactly the type of thing they were going for (although, vampires have bendable ones with joints )

    Incidentally, there's a tiny little mark on the leg I just spotted, so I'll have to fix that -- probably left over from painting the arms and it transferred accidentally. Edit: Fixed that mark and updated.

    Close pose:

    http://imageshack.us/a/img708/5386/r...lassicpose.png

    Held up against this:


    (click image to enlarge)


    I was able to paint hair that looks better than a blue blob. If you paint in the files over that mess, it just blurs to nothing, but here you can get some actual hair strand look to it and subtly. Unfortunately, the damn hair is a hodgepodge. I can't trim it from the back, as I noted last time (it never rode over the cloak before and it would look best not doing that), because the back of his hair and the front curls over his face use the same repeated parts. This is an unfortunate thing on a lot of the hair used in Defiance. It makes altering, or painting it, much harder. But, this looks pretty decent.

    Now, for Raziel without the cloak. His form was really not meant to ever be seen in its full like this, so it's a bit off. The shoulders are squashed in the front and the back of the shoulder has a portion missing from it, but these are the breaks

    http://imageshack.us/a/img834/1485/r...posefeedin.png

    Compared to this shot from SR1's version:


    (click image to enlarge)

    You'll note that his eyes while feeding are larger, so that's going to look different, and his nose from ingame SR1, 2, and now Defiance, has always been much longer, so that's how it is there. His forehead isn't as long, either, but other than that, it's as close as I can imagine. I will offer up a skin of him without the cloak. When not feeding, his head will just be floating up there. I'll show a shot later of it when not feeding, to see his normal eye shape.

    Feeding composite:

    http://imageshack.us/a/img22/5095/ra...compostiei.png

    More dead-on closeup:

    http://imageshack.us/a/img694/9838/r...ingcloseup.png

    The teeth were blended with the painted form and actual teeth from a lion's skull.


    Closeup of the back without the wings:

    http://imageshack.us/a/img839/2784/r...osefeeding.png

    He's hunched over when feeding, so the upper part to his neck slopes down here, and the model's are grabbed a little squashed. I try and compensate to inflate them and right them, basically, but there's only so much you can do sometimes.

    Close on the chest:

    http://imageshack.us/a/img198/6284/r...chestfeedi.png

    Tried to pay attention to every single muscle strand, ever fiber. Whereas before I had no reference for how the files showed up in lighting, and they look so much muddier in the files than here, nor could I correct for how the lines would often go, so they became too thick, too dark, to compensate, and extremes of contrast and saturation to get depth happened. I didn't have that issue here, thankfully. Subtle hints of fibers, trying to be as realistic, but expressive of the form as possible. I hope it all comes across...


    *goes to crash for a while*

  9. #434
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    o___O Hylden I love you for this <3
    he looks awesome,much much better this way!!!

    I can't wait to have him along with kain in my game!!
    "are you trying to bore me into submission?" ~ Raziel/Defiance
    signature image

  10. #435
    Badass Hylden. Friggin amazing! Im floored!

  11. #436
    God effing dammit.
    Did I already do the slow clap thingy? Yeah, I think I did. Ah, who the hell cares
    *slow clap*
    You amazed me once again.

  12. #437
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    Jaw dropping! excellent in every way, can you post the skin too?

  13. #438
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    Looks decent.

  14. #439
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    Thanks, everyone


    I'm going to wait until a few more updates have been made to upload the skin pack. Namely, I'm going to redo the Earth Reaver platforms and texture that "loathsome Vessel" -- the corpse Raziel pops into the world in



    In the meantime, here are those screens of his decloaked self in the game. First, the normal floating head he has when not feeding inside of 3D Coat:


    (click image to enlarge)

    Flipped horizontally to compare better to the above no cowl Raz from SR1's model.

    And his head dead-on:


    (click image to enlarge)

    The split in his face is that the program still shows the space where the thickness of the cloak's model goes. I can't quite hide that part, but it doesn't show up in the game.


    Ingame composites:

    Normal, no cloak:


    (click image to enlarge)

    Feeding, no cloak:


    (click image to enlarge)

    And closer on his floating head:


    (click image to enlarge)


    And this is the kind of thing you see if you stop taking your medication


    (click image to enlarge)

  15. #440
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    TheHylden Raz looks beyond awesome!!!!! I think he's perfect, his colour is great, love the muscle and wing detail, he's so much better than I had thought possible. The last one you done was great but this blows it away. I have a couple of questions if that’s alright, is the hair colour quite blued or is it the lighting? in my mind I always thought it was a little more black. What texture did you use for the cloak? it looks like hessian. Is it the same one you used for Kain’s cape? This is amazing work again, and that last spectral picture is very very disturbing!

  16. #441
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    Thanks, lucinvampire The hair in the intros model is always seen as black with blue highlights, so that's what it is here. Going off of that the only reason Raziel is blue is that's what he perceives his body color to be, only having Spectral to view it in, the same probably goes for the hair. As a vampire, it was black

    The cowl is a blend of really old, worn fabric -- not sure what type -- with other texturization blends augmenting my original paintwork, so there's no one real pinpoint to show in reality what it is, besides in my own mind, heh

  17. #442
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    Thanks for the explanations, I wasn’t sure if your image was black with highlights or if the undercoat was a deep dark blue/navy – I really need my eyes checked lol. Thanks for the information on the fabric, I was just very curious. Raz looks great, you did another fantastic job, are you planning on modifying the other characters you did or are you planning leaving them the way they are? Just wondering, because they look great as they are but seeing what you’ve re-done with Kain and Raz they probably would come out even more awesome (if that’s possible!) with the new way of working.

  18. #443
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    Thanks again Raziel's highlights are bluish strands, where there can be strands, in that mess of a hair piece. Some of it blurs and such, so very little is probably all black.

    Yup, going to work on the rest. After I'm done the Corpse Raziel uses, I'll move on to Moebius.

  19. #444
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    Who ordered the freshly-dug-up corpse?



    http://imageshack.us/a/img442/3005/l...elcomposit.png

    http://imageshack.us/a/img594/4641/l...elmediumcl.png

    http://imageshack.us/a/img62/5374/lo...elsideclos.png

    Showing the big links first, since he's actually hard to capture well in the game. They whip the him/it around so fast, and then boom -- he's gone.

    http://imageshack.us/a/img580/4624/l...elsidereve.png

    http://imageshack.us/a/img542/7605/l...esselchest.png

    I have to say I'm kind of glad to be done this, as looking through nothing but references of rotting death, both fake and real ... gets rather depressing. This was in need of a major overhaul, though. I guess since he's barely seen, they just gave him the most basic of textures, but this didn't befit the true rotting corpse sense.

    I also reworked his clothing remnants, making it make some sense in my head. His leather gauntlet, for instance, has pockets for knives, and has seen some use probably defending himself. I take these odd corpses found in the most unusual of places to be thieves, adventurers, those lost in pursuit of places they never should have been At least, that gives it a bit of logic, in some way, lol Also, all of the trials and errors making this guy should serve me well when it comes time to upgrading the revenants.

    http://imageshack.us/a/img607/4391/bootscomposite.png

    http://imageshack.us/a/img543/4541/g...tcomposite.png

    Grimy, rotting, dirty leather, rusted metal pieces. He's been rotting for God knows how long, after all. I toyed with giving him eyes. I didn't think they worked, so I removed them. I might use them with the revenants later, though, or some other undead, like the Guardians.

    Since it is hard to tell ingame, I also took the liberty of composting the old corpse textures for comparison:

    http://imageshack.us/a/img845/6446/o...esselcompo.png

    The one thing from the model I removed was the repeating little hair spike on top of his head. Why not just paint hair on that thing, I ask myself? But they gave him little spikes. They felt like he was some ghost white painted punk rocker from the 80's A member of Kiss they kicked out. On the repaint, I painted little strands of hair, and into the little flap of I guess hair that he has hanging off of him. Caked into that is some grime and dirt, to make it less noticeable. This model has some odd evidence of rushing. A bunch of parts that have little pieces transposed where they really shouldn't. His hair is repeated in the back of his leg... A triangle from his boot is repeated in his index finger... Just oddities that shouldn't be.



    And, in case the above isn't creepy enough for you, here's Raziel's partially emerging from the corpse:

    http://imageshack.us/a/img153/8326/l...sselraziel.png

    His little head and stringy arms and legs -- this must be what the physical imagining of an "effort of will" looks like


    The model was giving me fits trying to render it. For some reason, the lighting in the program just wouldn't take for the render. My frustration was almost all worth it for this, though. Without the corpse, here's string-bean Raziel


    http://imageshack.us/a/img849/5651/stringbeanraziel.png


    Guaranteed to either crack up, or scar for life, any child he comes in contact with



    For the ingame stuff, here are the best stills I could get outlining his transformation:


    (click image to enlarge)


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    (click image to enlarge)


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    (click image to enlarge)


    (click image to enlarge)

  20. #445
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    Great job! The corpse looks much better now I laughed so hard at the stretched Raziel thing

  21. #446
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    Oh man that corpse is nice! (ok that doesn’t sound right). It looks much better with the upgrade, you do know how to detail and make things look more realistic, even if it’s a little disturbing lol. Great work again, though I think lanky Raziel should be a playable character just for a laugh.

  22. #447
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    Thanks, both.

    lol yes I was hoping someone else would say it. I'd definitely offer the string-bean Raziel for the game, if I could. It's a separate "model" though, or a hybrid with the corpse model. Until the game can be modded that way, it's not possible.

    Would be amusing to have him larger, like a Tree Ent, running around with those gangly limbs

  23. #448
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    wow i definitely love your rendition of the vessel better Hylden,he looks so mossy like and gross...much worth of the title of "loathsome" indeed.

    and spindly raziel - that was worth a chuckle XD
    "are you trying to bore me into submission?" ~ Raziel/Defiance
    signature image

  24. #449
    Wow! So much better than the vanilla vessel! Its so funny, everytime you announce what youre going to do next I say to myself, "pfft. That doesnt need an overhaul as much as X." And then you show me how wrong I was!
    I never realized how silly the Vessel looked. I guess because it disappears so quickly. You did a fantastic job making it look dead an rotting... As opposed to half dead, half clown.

    Oh and one other thing. The strange out of the way locations that Raziel finds the corpses... Remember in SR2, in the sarafan time, right outside the stronghold, there were Sarafan on the cliffs around the lake (and Im sure other odd places) where humans shouldnt be able to reach throughout the game?

    I like to imagine Raziel killed the sarafan on those cliffs and odd places, and when he escapes EG centuries later (after his brush with his fateful paradox), uses the same corpses to manifest in the material realm. Just some extra poetic irony for those Sarafan dogs!

  25. #450
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    Thanks, majinkura and Strands Yes, making this feel like something foul enough even Raziel would be offended was paramount.

    Playing through Defiance last night to get to a location (damn limited save slots...), I found a nice little surprise. One class of revenant actually is also this vessel corpse. Once you get to Vorador's mansion, and it might only be in the mansion, the human corpses the Hylden use change from the ones in the Cemetery to the above corpse They have an additional garment on the back, looks like, that will have to be textured, but it's great to see that this effort is used in one of the rotting enemies and not just on the "now you see him, now you don't" corpse Raziel pops out of.

    So, that's one class of revenant practically down, heh.

    Unfortunately, it also means that this texture was made simultaneously for one of the enemies , and I agree, it looks pretty ... well, it's the worst texturing I've seen in this game. I've seen the texture files of the Thrawls from SR2 and they are so nicely detailed. They could have just cut and pasted and it would have been fine.

    As to the Sarafan (you really don't like them, do you? ), these places in Defiance, though, aren't ones Raziel's visited before -- unless he did and we just didn't see him. Maybe he got lost in his rage on the way back from Uschtenheim, heh.

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