View Poll Results: Opinion on All-Star Batman & Robin #1-10

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  • Liked it

    12 60.00%
  • Mixed feelings.

    5 25.00%
  • Disliked it.

    3 15.00%
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Thread: All Star Batman & Robin discussion thread

All Star Batman & Robin discussion thread

  1. #26
    That's a 7/10 which is still a decent score.I hope you didn't think I was knocking the book,because I own every issue and I do enjoy it.In all actuality,it is a hard book to pin down,some say it's terrible,others love it.Some say it's satire,others say it's tasteless.I wonder if Miller expected so much conflict and so many different opinions?For those who do like it,I think we all have our different reasons for liking it.For me,it's that it isn't overly complex,and it's something you can kick back and enjoy.Though it isn't without it's faults,I still find it to be an enjoyable piece of literature.
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  2. #27
    I'm not going to get into a point by point response thing since I've done enough of that to last a lifetime.

    I know these are Miller's interpretations of the characters but just because they're his interpretations doesn't excuse them from criticism or thinking they're bad. I'm not saying they're bad because they're different from the mainstream. I'm saying they're bad because they're all exaggerations and so out there that its funny. They're pretty much all Flanderized versions of their mainstream identities. Flanderization is when one element of their character or personality is blown up and the others minimized to the point of being one-dimensional. I have to reiterate that I'm not opposed to writers taking established characters outside of continuity and altering them and making their own. However, when the resulting character is so exaggerated, so cartoony and so completely ridiculous I recoil and react negatively to it. It has nothing to do with me thinking "This isn't like the original characters" and has everything to do with me thinking "This reads like it was written by a teenager." If Miller wrote the book and used original characters rather than pre-existing ones I'd still be opposed. This is not a Jar-Jar situation.

    I know that cheese, macho dialog, profanity, violence and similar characterizations of the characters were in TDKR. However, those elements were used much more carefully and subtlely in TDKR than they are in ASBAR. I think thats why the work succeeded and the imitators failed. Miller handled this things with grace so when Batman beats the crap out of someone and his mind his going over the injuries he's inflicting I'm thinking "Wow, this is badass" rather than "Rofl what a ". When theres a little cheese in TDKR its used smartly so it comes off as satirical (From Reagan) or showing how times have changed in major and minor ways (the slang). These things are amplified in ASBAR, which is why I say it reads like a parody. If I didn't know Miller was writing the book I'd think that the writer was either trying to emulate Miller and fail or was making fun of Miller. In fact if it wasn't written by Miller it would be a damn good parody. Its like Spinal Tap. That movie is a satirical look at heavy metal in the form of a mocukmentary and apparently it was so realistic (despite being absolutely ridiculous to normal people) that many rockstars can't see the humour in it. If you haven't seen it check it out.

    Two other things I'd like to get specific on:

    Batgirl's swearing - I just reread that section and I realized that the majority of the swearing came from the pedestrians, not Batgirl. The "This arcade belongs to the ing Batgirl!" line is fine, good use of the Precision F-Strike. Point to you.

    Joker's humour - I simply prefer a Joker who uses humour more. Personal taste.

    The pages you posted - The graveyard scene is easily the best moment in the book IMO and a great image.

    Batman vs Green Lantern - Painting the room yellow, offering lemonade and drinking the out of it is crazy awesome to the nth degree.
    "Sleep? That bed is a coffin and those are winding sheets. I do not sleep I die." - Captain Ahab

  3. #28
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    To me volume 1 is 8/10, but i prefer out of 5 scoring at times. Not going to rate something too high when it's just the first volume out of a 2 volume story.

    Originally Posted by Old_BenKenobi
    I'm saying they're bad because they're all exaggerations and so out there that its funny. They're pretty much all Flanderized versions of their mainstream identities. Flanderization is when one element of their character or personality is blown up and the others minimized to the point of being one-dimensional. I have to reiterate that I'm not opposed to writers taking established characters outside of continuity and altering them and making their own. However, when the resulting character is so exaggerated, so cartoony and so completely ridiculous I recoil and react negatively to it. It has nothing to do with me thinking "This isn't like the original characters" and has everything to do with me thinking "This reads like it was written by a teenager." If Miller wrote the book and used original characters rather than pre-existing ones I'd still be opposed.
    But how are they exactly exaggerated? Superman is a good guy, yet he swears and doesn't know what to do with the Dick Grayson, Age twelve () situation. We see his love interest from his early years being Diana, which is awesome since we know they end up having a daughter together. We also know the JLA is abit cynical when it comes to Batman, since they considered throwing up a celebration party when Batman retires.

    Batman's crazyness is exaggerated on purpose, we both know that, because Miller wants us to see how actually god damn crazy he's gotten, but from the beginning of Dick's introduction he's starting to shift. Hal Jordan's meeting with Batman causes Batman to realize what is actually going on. What he's become and what he's almost turned Dick into. #10 continues with the humanizement of Batman with him holding his precious Selina, making sure she will live and wanting to say the words he'd never said to anyone else.

    So who is again that greatly exaggerated that it comes off as bad for you?

    These things are amplified in ASBAR, which is why I say it reads like a parody.
    If you see it as a parody, thats fine. We all got our own sense of humour.

    In fact if it wasn't written by Miller it would be a damn good parody.
    But it would still show all the deep human progression that Miller shows us. You seem to be ignoring these and putting emphasis on the things you find hilarious.

    Joker's humour - I simply prefer a Joker who uses humour more. Personal taste.
    Well Joker will play a big role, if you're gonna check out Dark Knight: Boy Wonder. We might see if Joker is going to turn into a more devilish prankster when he sees Batman with a little kid.

    Batman vs Green Lantern - Painting the room yellow, offering lemonade and drinking the out of it is crazy awesome to the nth degree.
    It is crazy indeed. "Damn you and your lemonade!" and the origin of one of my favorite Batman lines! "Ofcourse we're criminals. We've always been criminals. We HAVE to be criminals!" i love how fascist Miller's Batman can be, and the concluson this quote puts on to Hal Jordan when he uses it himself in TDKSA.

  4. #29
    Originally Posted by batfan08
    That's a 7/10 which is still a decent score.I hope you didn't think I was knocking the book,because I own every issue and I do enjoy it.In all actuality,it is a hard book to pin down,some say it's terrible,others love it.Some say it's satire,others say it's tasteless.I wonder if Miller expected so much conflict and so many different opinions?For those who do like it,I think we all have our different reasons for liking it.For me,it's that it isn't overly complex,and it's something you can kick back and enjoy.Though it isn't without it's faults,I still find it to be an enjoyable piece of literature.
    So what flaws are there, exactly? Just wondering, I'm glad you like the book. I enjoy it because of its connections to TDKR and I like the writing and art. I just thought it was a great book all around, I don't really get the hate

  5. #30
    Originally Posted by Drazar
    To me volume 1 is 8/10, but i prefer out of 5 scoring at times. Not going to rate something too high when it's just the first volume out of a 2 volume story.



    But how are they exactly exaggerated? Superman is a good guy, yet he swears and doesn't know what to do with the Dick Grayson, Age twelve () situation. We see his love interest from his early years being Diana, which is awesome since we know they end up having a daughter together. We also know the JLA is abit cynical when it comes to Batman, since they considered throwing up a celebration party when Batman retires.

    Batman's crazyness is exaggerated on purpose, we both know that, because Miller wants us to see how actually god damn crazy he's gotten, but from the beginning of Dick's introduction he's starting to shift. Hal Jordan's meeting with Batman causes Batman to realize what is actually going on. What he's become and what he's almost turned Dick into. #10 continues with the humanizement of Batman with him holding his precious Selina, making sure she will live and wanting to say the words he'd never said to anyone else.

    So who is again that greatly exaggerated that it comes off as bad for you?



    If you see it as a parody, thats fine. We all got our own sense of humour.



    But it would still show all the deep human progression that Miller shows us. You seem to be ignoring these and putting emphasis on the things you find hilarious.



    Well Joker will play a big role, if you're gonna check out Dark Knight: Boy Wonder. We might see if Joker is going to turn into a more devilish prankster when he sees Batman with a little kid.



    It is crazy indeed. "Damn you and your lemonade!" and the origin of one of my favorite Batman lines! "Ofcourse we're criminals. We've always been criminals. We HAVE to be criminals!" i love how fascist Miller's Batman can be, and the concluson this quote puts on to Hal Jordan when he uses it himself in TDKSA.
    Oh ok. Well that's a pretty good score. I thought you thought the book was average AND you were defending it which doesn't really fit. Glad you like it though and I'm glad I like it too!

  6. #31
    Christ almighty, it seems I've started something I really didn't wanna get into.

    Lets agree to disagree.
    "Sleep? That bed is a coffin and those are winding sheets. I do not sleep I die." - Captain Ahab

  7. #32
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    You dun did it now!

  8. #33
    Originally Posted by The Hylden
    You dun did it now!
    Do YOU like the book? LOL just wondering. It's always nice to have a fellow fan of an under-rated over-hated book

  9. #34
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  10. #35
    Just some of the characterizations is all,mainly visual stuff though.For example,how can Bruce Wayne be clean shaven in a panel,yet Batman has a beard.As for characterizations,it mainly was a few lines from Batman.I really liked the take on Alfred,though.Wasn't Alfred in some sort of military unit before the Waynes?I like that he is still physically healthy and can take care of himself.I also really like the chemistry between he and Bruce in the cheeseburger scene.Bruce almost sounds like a bratty child when he's complaining to Alfred for undermining him,and Alfred just tells him how it is."You didn't eat rats,so neither will he."As I said,I DO like the book.
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  11. #36
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    Originally Posted by Old_BenKenobi
    Lets agree to disagree.
    .

    @Dark Knight: Start using the edit feature. Don't double post just to reply to 2 different people.

  12. #37
    Originally Posted by batfan08
    Just some of the characterizations is all,mainly visual stuff though.For example,how can Bruce Wayne be clean shaven in a panel,yet Batman has a beard.As for characterizations,it mainly was a few lines from Batman.I really liked the take on Alfred,though.Wasn't Alfred in some sort of military unit before the Waynes?I like that he is still physically healthy and can take care of himself.I also really like the chemistry between he and Bruce in the cheeseburger scene.Bruce almost sounds like a bratty child when he's complaining to Alfred for undermining him,and Alfred just tells him how it is."You didn't eat rats,so neither will he."As I said,I DO like the book.
    I chalk that up to Batman being so psycho and so filled with pent up rage that even his facial hair is forced out.
    "Sleep? That bed is a coffin and those are winding sheets. I do not sleep I die." - Captain Ahab

  13. #38
    Originally Posted by Drazar
    .

    @Dark Knight: Start using the edit feature. Don't double post just to reply to 2 different people.
    K no problem


    Originally Posted by The Hylden
    Haven't read it.
    You haven't read it and you came to a discussion thread? Right,,,

  14. #39
    Maybe he wanted to learn more about it?
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  15. #40
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    Though I haven't read it, I skimmed some of the discussion. All I replied to was Old Ben's exclamation that he stirred up more of a debate than he wanted to. Having been here quite a long time now, I've seen, and been in, many such discussions, myself. I know how passionate Drazar and others are about their points, as well, so I made a "wink, wink, nudge, nudge" reply to Ben.

    And now that I have to come back in here to explain myself, the joke is now lost. Oh well...

  16. #41
    Originally Posted by The Hylden
    Though I haven't read it, I skimmed some of the discussion. All I replied to was Old Ben's exclamation that he stirred up more of a debate than he wanted to. Having been here quite a long time now, I've seen, and been in, many such discussions, myself. I know how passionate Drazar and others are about their points, as well, so I made a "wink, wink, nudge, nudge" reply to Ben.

    And now that I have to come back in here to explain myself, the joke is now lost. Oh well...
    Well I recommend it to you, it's a great read, though we all have to wait until February for the arc to finish.

  17. #42
    I'm just bidding my time for a goddamn sequeal to the goddamn Batman. [/see what I did there?]

    The book is great but pity not everyone can enjoy it. And I love the fact that Robin is that young, he's just as I portray him, even like in BTAS and Teen Titans.

  18. #43
    I don't know which TAS you were watching,but in the one I grew up with,Dick Grayson was in college.
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  19. #44
    Probably talking about the revamped show with Tim Drake.
    "Sleep? That bed is a coffin and those are winding sheets. I do not sleep I die." - Captain Ahab

  20. #45
    Originally Posted by Shark_Blade
    I'm just bidding my time for a goddamn sequeal to the goddamn Batman. [/see what I did there?]

    The book is great but pity not everyone can enjoy it. And I love the fact that Robin is that young, he's just as I portray him, even like in BTAS and Teen Titans.
    I agree. It makes me sad that people fall into the two different camps of loving it or hating it

  21. #46
    I picked up the tpb of issues #1-9 and was not impressed. The thing that bothers me most is that Batman enjoys violence and causing pain. This Batman's goal is to hurt and punish evil doers more than it is to help people and I do not like that one bit. It also bothers me that Batman (and all the characters) go from being normal in Miller's year one, to the bat-*bleep* crazy they are in All Star. Hopefully the last six issues that release next year are better.
    Originally Posted by Batman
    If detective work were easy... everyone would be doing it.
    Originally Posted by Nightwing
    Was that... humor? Now I AM worried about you.

  22. #47
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    Batman was already laughing abit in Year One, but as i've already stated he's gone crazy from all the lunatics hes had to fight alone. This is the 3rd year of Batman and already Robin's influence is making Batman see his error and thus the story continues with Batman becoming more human.

  23. #48
    when is this restarting? I for one really enjoyed it

  24. #49
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    February 2011

    The link contains Dark Knight: Boy Wonder #1 cover and a teaser. The comic starts off right where All-Star Batman and Robin #10 ends, with Catwoman in near death with Batman and Robin rushing towards to the Batcopter.

  25. #50
    Glad to see Lee's art is still phenomenal.
    "Sleep? That bed is a coffin and those are winding sheets. I do not sleep I die." - Captain Ahab

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