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Thread: Why Robin might ruin things.

Why Robin might ruin things.

  1. #1

    Why Robin might ruin things.

    Sure, Robin is one of Batman's first allies, but in truth, Robin takes away that grim Batman feel, and makes for a more comedic approach.

    If Robin is to appear in either a new Batman Movie, or the [rather] confirmed, Batman: Arkham Asylum 2, I will most likely not enjoy it as much as I would if it were just Batman.

    Let's break it down.

    Batman: Grim.

    Robin: Slightly grim, comic relief.

    Robin is, let's face it, in all comic lore, a kid. But the newer Batman Series, (referring to Arkham Asylum and "The Dark Knight") has a much more mature audience, and aims towards that.

    Bring in a teen into the mix, well, that ruins it.

    I might be wrong, they might make Robin such an amazing Character in Arkham Asylum or the rumored, "Gotham City" but, what do you [reader] think?
    "If you don't like the movie, I've got slides..."

  2. #2
    This,is why Robin FAILS.

  3. #3
    Originally Posted by Viceroy Phoenix
    Sure, Robin is one of Batman's first aliases...
    Alias? I didn't know batman used to go by robin.
    Originally Posted by Batman
    I am vengeance. I am the night. I AM BATMAN!

  4. #4
    Originally Posted by KnightHero
    Alias? I didn't know batman used to go by robin.
    Forgive my spelling error!
    "If you don't like the movie, I've got slides..."

  5. #5
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    Originally Posted by Viceroy Phoenix
    Sure, Robin is one of Batman's first aliases, but in truth, Robin takes away that grim Batman feel, and makes for a more comedic approach.
    It depends on the story. If they wish to lighten to mood by making the dialogue and story itself lighter, then they can wish to do so. I'll use two popular stories as an example Jeph Loeb's Dark Victory & Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns.

    Dick Grayson is introduced in Loeb's continuety and his scenes, while having an optimistic look as he received a new folster home and a loving adopted father, doesn't change the actual criminals such as Harvey Dent murdering a certain lady and what else criminal activity happens such as the Hangman.

    Another example is The Dark Knight Returns, while Robin once again brings forth the supportive character and dialogue exchange, it doesn't change anything about Joker murdering a live audiance, selling poisoned cotton candy to the children and Batman being hunted by the goverment.

    Infact as i was typing this, i just realized that the dialogue exchange that softened the mood was infact with Oracle in Arkham Asylum. I remember chuckling when Oracle says something like "what now? Two-Face+! Joker robots?!" and Batman calmly says "nothing that simple, i'm afriad". Yes it lightened the mood and for me, i chuckled. Did it ruin the darkness of the game? Not for me atleast, not for anyone else from what i've seen so far.
    If Robin is to appear in either a new Batman Movie, or the [rather] confirmed, Batman: Arkham Asylum 2, I will most likely not enjoy it as much as I would if it were just Batman.
    Who knows truly? You might be positively surprised, or you will be disappointed. It's impossible to tell until the final product.
    Batman: Grim.
    Robin: Slightly grim, comic relief.
    Yep they're the bad cop & good cop duo. Lethal Weapon is a perfect example of high action awesomeness that provides both grim tough guy and the comic relief character. It's a popular duo, and once of the reasons why the Caped Crusaders are so popular in the medium.

    Robin is, let's face it, in all comic lore, a kid. But the newer Batman Series, (referring to Arkham Asylum and "The Dark Knight") has a much more mature audience, and aims towards that.
    What about all the comics that we're aimed towards grown ups? I'm not going to delve into the cartoons, while BTAS, Brave & Bold can offer some very dark episodes that make you say "how did they get away with that?!" they're still children cartoons at the end of the day, but Robin's reckoning did receive an Emmy nomination.

    Bring in a teen into the mix, well, that ruins it.
    So it doesn't ruin it for the comics.... But it does for games and movies? How does this work?

  6. #6
    A Reply to DRAZAR:
    You have many good points...indeed, and as a reply to your final question: You are right, when Oracle said, "What now? Two-Face?! Joker Robots?!" It gave me a couple yuks, and again, you're right, it did not disrupt the games mood. But when it comes to the movie and video game aspect, comic books have a plot that's designed to work in a specific order.

    There are many great comics, but most stories, I think give you a rather 2 dimensional feel to the action, (and no that's not a pun) Robin certainly didn't ruin The Dark Knight Returns, I was glad to see that Robin was there either way, but when it comes to movies and games, they give you a rather 3 dimensional feel, which allows you to see everything that's going on in their heads.

    A small disruption to the mood, even a simple Joke can rather offset the tone, especially when it's a younger person, and doesn't give you that, Batman is against the world, it gives you a "Batman has friend" mood. It takes away from, the Grim-Bat, and adds a "Fatherly"-bat feel.

    You have made some certainly clever and smart speculations, which I did not consider while creating this thread. I applaud you for your reply, and you changed my perspective, slightly.

    I'd like to see Batman and Batman only. But you're right. It's not that bad.
    "If you don't like the movie, I've got slides..."

  7. #7
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    Originally Posted by Viceroy Phoenix
    A Reply to DRAZAR:
    You have many good points...indeed, and as a reply to your final question: You are right, when Oracle said, "What now? Two-Face?! Joker Robots?!" It gave me a couple yuks, and again, you're right, it did not disrupt the games mood. But when it comes to the movie and video game aspect, comic books have a plot that's designed to work in a specific order.
    I'm sorry i'm not following you on this one. Why exactly can't sidekick work for Batman in a movie or game? The mood that Batman isn't alone? The mood of confidence in the story that Batman has physical assistance and not just communications? That Batman isn't the lone crusader who protects Gotham? What is it that makes *you* feel Robin/sidekick(s) can't work for Batman?

    There are many great comics, but most stories, I think give you a rather 2 dimensional feel to the action, (and no that's not a pun) Robin certainly didn't ruin The Dark Knight Returns, I was glad to see that Robin was there either way, but when it comes to movies and games, they give you a rather 3 dimensional feel, which allows you to see everything that's going on in their heads.
    Wouldn't that depend how much inner monologue or dialogue exchange is given?

    A small disruption to the mood, even a simple Joke can rather offset the tone, especially when it's a younger person, and doesn't give you that, Batman is against the world, it gives you a "Batman has friend" mood. It takes away from, the Grim-Bat, and adds a "Fatherly"-bat feel.
    Well yes Batman took victims of crime to his assistance and trained them, this is very father figuring as much as Alfred assisting Batman, ofcourse i understand you feel you prefer the Grim-Bat, so i don't know what to comment here really. Perhaps while Robin is present, the game can still archieve for you that this is the Dark Knight whos very determined to fight the criminals, and has acquared assistance in doing so, that ranges from mere Police department. Since Batman has to look at the bigger picture here.

    You have made some certainly clever and smart speculations, which I did not consider while creating this thread. I applaud you for your reply, and you changed my perspective, slightly.

    I'd like to see Batman and Batman only. But you're right. It's not that bad.
    The important thing is that you will feel its your moneys worth, and lets hope Rocksteady archieves that.

  8. #8
    I don't think Robin would ruin anything. I didn't think the atmosphere in Arkham was overly dark. It was twisted, but not necessarily dark and cynical. I also don't think Robin takes away from that atmosphere so long as he's not cracking jokes all the time.
    "Sleep? That bed is a coffin and those are winding sheets. I do not sleep I die." - Captain Ahab

  9. #9
    NO. Robin does not suck, or ruin things.

    If you know about what happened to Jason, and to Batman afterwords, you'd realize that Robin IS an important character, even if he is a kid, he isn't really a comic relief.

    Robin is the person who keeps Batman from going overboard with his actions.
    After Jason's death Batman got more violent, until Tim Drake came along.

    What do you think Batman will be like if he didn't have someone, even a kid, to make sure he wasn't going overboard?
    He'd have killed the Joker by now, and no, Gordon wouldn't have stopped him.
    Remember what happened in NML? The Joker killed Sarah Essen and Batman even said 'I won't stop you' to Gordon.

    Extra stuff I wanna say: I like how in Battle For The Cowl how Tim hits Jason with the crowbar (:

  10. #10
    Originally Posted by puppet627
    NO. Robin does not suck, or ruin things.

    If you know about what happened to Jason, and to Batman afterwords, you'd realize that Robin IS an important character, even if he is a kid, he isn't really a comic relief.

    Robin is the person who keeps Batman from going overboard with his actions.
    After Jason's death Batman got more violent, until Tim Drake came along.

    What do you think Batman will be like if he didn't have someone, even a kid, to make sure he wasn't going overboard?
    He'd have killed the Joker by now, and no, Gordon wouldn't have stopped him.
    Remember what happened in NML? The Joker killed Sarah Essen and Batman even said 'I won't stop you' to Gordon.

    Extra stuff I wanna say: I like how in Battle For The Cowl how Tim hits Jason with the crowbar (:
    Yeah, Robin - more or less - acts as Batman's conscience. Without it, he would probably turn into Rorschach with gadgets.

    Not all depictions of Robin are comic relief - some are, but not all of them are.
    Sometimes, doing something wrong is what it takes to do something right.

  11. #11
    Jason Todd was ONE of the Robins.Any other stories you might wanna tell?Your gonna have tell a lot though cuz he is a comic releif.

  12. #12
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    Originally Posted by mwkcope
    Jason Todd was ONE of the Robins.Any other stories you might wanna tell?.
    Other stories that are what? Jason Todd is the least succesful Robin due to Dick Grayson fans being so butthurt over this new bad cop Robin... Yeah thats right. People didn't *like* a bad cop Robin, because it ruined the good cop, bad cop dynamic. Grant Morrison made the bad cop Robin work with Damian, because now Batman (Dick Grayson) *is* the good cop of the dynamic duo.

    Stil even Jason had his small share of good stories, such as Batman: The Cult and ofcourse his own death, Death in a Family story.

    Still what other stories are you asking us to list? And what does it matter for you? I mean you've given a clear opinion that you find Robin as a failure. So are you trying to argue that we're wrong, or are you perhaps interested in some great comics with Robin in it?

    Originally Posted by mwkcope
    Your gonna have tell a lot though cuz he is a comic releif.
    Jason Todd? Nope. Dick Grayson? He's very witty with his dialogue, but all the Robins can be portrayed and have been portrayed very seriously over the years. Why do you make arguments when you already told everyone here you don't know barely anything about Robin outside 1 comic? Are you really trying to convince the people who've read comics, that you have better insight than the people who've actually read plenty of comics that have Robin in it?

    EDIT: Made my second reply abit more clear. Sorry about that!

  13. #13
    Originally Posted by mwkcope
    Jason Todd was ONE of the Robins.Any other stories you might wanna tell?Your gonna have tell a lot though cuz he is a comic releif.
    Jason Todd is anything BUT comic relief... Seriously, this is a robin that was received negatively for his refusal to comply to Batman's orders - this is a robin that did whatever the hell he wanted.
    Sometimes, doing something wrong is what it takes to do something right.

  14. #14
    I don't know why people just assume that the presence of Robin means the disapperance of atmosphere, maturity, etc. as if Robin doesn't take what hes doing seriously. Seriously, what is it? This isn't the 1960s.
    "Sleep? That bed is a coffin and those are winding sheets. I do not sleep I die." - Captain Ahab

  15. #15
    Originally Posted by Drazar
    Other stories that are what? Jason Todd is the least succesful Robin due to Dick Grayson fans being so butthurt over this new bad cop Robin... Yeah thats right. People didn't *like* a bad cop Robin, because it ruined the good cop, bad cop dynamic. Grant Morrison made the bad cop Robin work with Damian, because now Batman (Dick Grayson) *is* the good cop of the dynamic duo.

    Stil even Jason had his small share of good stories, such as Batman: The Cult and ofcourse his own death, Death in a Family story.

    Still what other stories are you asking us to list? And what does it matter for you? I mean you've given a clear opinion that you find Robin as a failure. So are you trying to argue that we're wrong, or are you perhaps interested in some great comics with Robin in it?



    Jason Todd? Nope. Dick Grayson? He's very witty with his dialogue, but all the Robins can be portrayed and have been portrayed very seriously over the years. Why do you make arguments when you already told everyone here you don't know barely anything about Robin outside 1 comic? Are you really trying to convince the people who've read comics, that you have better insight than the people who've actually read plenty of comics that have Robin in it?

    EDIT: Made my second reply abit more clear. Sorry about that!
    Was he really like that?I feel weird learning that.

  16. #16
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    Originally Posted by mwkcope
    Was he really like that?I feel weird learning that.
    So once again with your inaccurate information or infact, probably the actual lack of knowledge you decide to complain about Robin, not because you know about the characters, but because you're pessimistic to a concept you're not even fully knowledged about.

    Why do you bother? You don't like Robin because you're ignorance has made you intolerant to something you don't know about, but why do you think you can convince the people who read comics and know about Robin, that you're the one right?

    Again, it's fine for you to keep your negative views on Robin, but don't argue about things, you don't know about.

  17. #17
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    I'm going to level with you for a moment, but maybe, JUST MAYBE, could you imagine Robin without the red, green, yellow, and dorkiness? You only picture what has been made of Robin, nothing is stopping them from making him darker and more original, heck, look what they did with Harley Quinn! I think he should make an appearance, just with a bit of a change to his personality.

  18. #18
    Originally Posted by KillerCroc
    I'm going to level with you for a moment, but maybe, JUST MAYBE, could you imagine Robin without the red, green, yellow, and dorkiness? You only picture what has been made of Robin, nothing is stopping them from making him darker and more original, heck, look what they did with Harley Quinn! I think he should make an appearance, just with a bit of a change to his personality.
    I think that was the whole reason they created Nightwing.
    Sometimes, doing something wrong is what it takes to do something right.

  19. #19
    One episode of TAS "I am the Night" explains perfectly why there MUST be a robin. Taking place on the anniversary of Bruce Wayne's parents death. Batman questions whether or not he should even do what he does anymore, keep doing his one man war against crime. In the episode Gordon gets shot and Batman blames himself for not being there in time, and goes into a very large emotional struggle, the only person who was there to help him was Robin (dick grayson) he helped Batman realize that he is merely human and can't solve everything, and that Gordon is a cop and knows the dangers of the his duty. Robin is there to help Batman stay sane. In my opinion Batman needs Robin.
    "I said I would let you go home, I never said alive." - The Joker

  20. #20
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    Originally Posted by freeze131
    I think that was the whole reason they created Nightwing.
    False.

    Nightwing was created because DC thought Dick Grayson shouldn't be the same old snappy, and wiley Robin. The kid was Robin for 30-40 years, it's about time he grew up and did his own thing. Then a new Robin was born. Something you should always keep in mind. Robin, will never die. Jason Todd did though...but then another Robin was born.

    Robin is FOREVER!

  21. #21
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    Originally Posted by TheBrandon
    One episode of TAS "I am the Night" explains perfectly why there MUST be a robin. Taking place on the anniversary of Bruce Wayne's parents death. Batman questions whether or not he should even do what he does anymore, keep doing his one man war against crime. In the episode Gordon gets shot and Batman blames himself for not being there in time, and goes into a very large emotional struggle, the only person who was there to help him was Robin (dick grayson) he helped Batman realize that he is merely human and can't solve everything, and that Gordon is a cop and knows the dangers of the his duty. Robin is there to help Batman stay sane. In my opinion Batman needs Robin.
    Thats sorta how it went in the comics. After Jason Todd died, Batman questioned his morales and stopped being Batman. The later-to-be Robin, Tim Drake, figured out that Batman NEEDS a Robin, so he discovered who Batman was and convinced him that he needs a Robin, and then Tim became the new Robin. Hooray! Happy ending!

  22. #22
    Originally Posted by Drazar
    So once again with your inaccurate information or infact, probably the actual lack of knowledge you decide to complain about Robin, not because you know about the characters, but because you're pessimistic to a concept you're not even fully knowledged about.

    Why do you bother? You don't like Robin because you're ignorance has made you intolerant to something you don't know about, but why do you think you can convince the people who read comics and know about Robin, that you're the one right?

    Again, it's fine for you to keep your negative views on Robin, but don't argue about things, you don't know about.
    I admit,I lost this one.
    Now,what if it reminds of the movie?Does that give me a justifiable excuse?jk.

  23. #23
    Originally Posted by mwkcope
    I admit,I lost this one.
    Now,what if it reminds of the movie?Does that give me a justifiable excuse?jk.
    Just by playing Arkham Asylum you should no there is ZERO chance it will be like the movie if robin is in AA2
    "I said I would let you go home, I never said alive." - The Joker

  24. #24
    I was kidding.

  25. #25
    I always found this type of robin pretty cool, I would like to see this in a movie, maybe not a game
    Click to see my video projects --->>> Dufase19089

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