Thread: "THIEF" - Your current THOUGHTS & SUGGESTIONS & CONCERNS - All General Discussion

"THIEF" - Your current THOUGHTS & SUGGESTIONS & CONCERNS - All General Discussion

  1. #1026
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    I like the idea of loot being finite....so if they make a City Hub (shudder!), I hope they don't have infinite loot/equipment available inside it.

  2. #1027
    i played all thief games im just saying that i would like to see a larger scale in thief's world. more specific not including only a city or moving from one mission to another. i just seek a lil more interaction with the world of thief

  3. #1028
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    I'd like to see lots of available maps for customising stealth/thieving missions. Plus choice of enemy type, number, strength etc. I mean, this aspect could run alongside the main story as an additional feature. This would add replayability: you finish the main story and now you can play custom missions using the game engine etc. Maybe there could be extra, downloadable missions, as in Dragon Age etc.?
    "With all this excitement I'll probably get a headache . . ."

  4. #1029
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    While I was dismayed at the TDS approach to the open city, I did like the TMA approach. The city needs to be there but not with unlimited loot by following people to grab their purses or KO them and have them respawn again and again. If there is loot from people in the city, it needs to be a persistant population which would mean, once you've done it, you can't go back for another load.

    In TDS, Stonebridge, there is a merc who walks to the end of the alley beside the inn and back. If you KO him and drag his body to the dark corner where you enter the zone, he respawns and walk around the inn toward you again. Some respawns have purses, some don't but I have waited for the spawn each time, grabbed the purse and KO'd him and waited for the next one. It's an almost endless supply of money and, providing you put out the torch in the doorway of the inn, you are completely hidden from the City Watch guard who wanders up and down the road. You can make a mint from that spot in a few hours. That's what makes buying the gear from the store a bit pointless since you can go out and come back with more money as you need it to max out your inventory before a mission.

    Also with TMA, you only needed to scare them and they would drop their purse and run. That was good if you had to get guards away from their posts because the civilian would run to the nearest guards and bring them back with him/her. Follow the civilian so far and hide, when the guards run past you, you nonchalantly wander through the entrance they were guarding. If T4 allows this, it needs to remember who you've done it to before so they won't drop a purse if you do it a second time.

    Yes, an open world but with restrictions in that it has a persistant population. I quite liked having to run the gauntlet to a mission in TMA because you KO'd guards as you went but they didn't respawn a few minutes later so they weren't back at their posts again if you had to backtrack.

    EDit: Also the city needs to be one big zone and not several small ones as TDS did.
    A bird in the hand is... Lunch tonight.

  5. #1030
    yes tryst u have a good point. i agree with you.an open world with some restrictions .open world gives you new options, many chalenges the ability to interact with the game in many ways. sure there must be some frames but at least the playable area should be increased.



    "Also the city needs to be one big zone and not several small ones as TDS did. "
    Agree with that too. I believe its time for the master thief to show us his homeworld as exactly it is.lets say that thief 4 will be the start for that. the city as one piece without being devided into smaller areas where you can freely move. and of course more roof jumping cause it rocks.
    and to be more interesting the developers could add some secret places to keep us entertained. after all the master thief admited it many times that he has a great love for secret places.And yes as mahatari says the game needs re-playability. i would spend hours playing thief for that.

    Thief is a great first person stealth game but i strongly believe that if they add to it 3 basic rpg characteristics - world interaction - questlines/lore/past - lust for adventure it will sure raise into the eyes of many other gamers that havent yet considered it as a worthy game.

  6. #1031
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    But still the devs wouldn't be able to create the entire City. They can make a pretty big City roaming area, but they can't show the City limits at any point, because no matter how big they would make the City, it would be too small if the player was able to get from edge to edge. TDS had the decency of only revealing one edge of the City, the southern edge at the docks. So the so-called "City" in TDS that was the size of one city block can be regarded as just a tiny fraction of the City.

    The best way to make a free-roam city level is to have as much of it explorable as possible, but at the edges of the explorable level all you would see would be more of the City.

    And please, the whole city level needs to be larger than the market level in Thief 2. In fact, it would make sense if all of the districts would be roughly the size of the market level or bigger.

  7. #1032
    yes but if we take the whole city and fuse all neightbourhoods and areas in one and keep it as the start of an "envolving" project no matter how easily the player cn get from one region to another it doesnt really matter.

    Besides they can do it like that:
    -Add the whole city. All areas/neightbourhoods/squares will get in one map.
    -Restrictions as people suggested. You will have the starting area. But you wont be able to enter other areas before you complete parts the main storyline (like in TDS) or some side quests given by people that will somehow grant you acces to the next area.However after you unlock the areas you will be able to move freely from each to another without loading screens (i just got sick of getting all these loading screens in TDS and many times during them the game crashed).main problem will be the guards and other dangers.
    -These areas can be a game by themselves. Dif atmospere for each. Like in TDS and from real life too we have examples that each area in a city can have dif ranks.Some will be for the rich people some will be for poor people some will be more dangerous than the others hell even some areas could be less habitated ( for example a huge park and few houses around it). It is more realistic. Each area can have its own quests lore and secrets that you in the role of master garrett must explore and find. This will make the game less boring as u interact with everything arround you.And as for the ""but at the edges of the explorable level all you would see would be more of the City"" i believe that they could create the whole city in this game (thats why i say evolving project above) and at the edge you can see the city ending and countryside/sea to begin.
    -This will aid the lore of the game.Mind that the 60% of the gamers like to see the story and the enviroments that surround the main character in a game.The developers can add to this whole city some small fragments of garretts past that while u unlock the new areas you can search for them and feel a little closer to the master thief.They might be books, stories ,chat theme in a tavern or even in game videos that work as memmories of garrett.You will see ,hear and understand a bit more about garretts world.

  8. #1033
    If an open-world city is created, I have to think it will either be too small, in which case it's TDS all over again, or sufficiently large that it'll seriously detract from the mission-specific areas.

    The City in TDS was seriously anti-climactic. Some things are better left shown in fragments, skated around the edges, and implied by everything, rather than shown front and center in all their miserable glory.
    But I'm right.

  9. #1034
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    Originally Posted by Alageel
    i believe that they could create the whole city in this game (thats why i say evolving project above) and at the edge you can see the city ending and countryside/sea to begin.
    That's exactly how it shouldn't be. A big portion of Thief's charm is the hundreds of fan missions made for it. If EM were to model the entire city (and fail because any size would be too small) there wouldn't be any space for the fans to set their missions in. In the history of Thief every fan mission release made the City bigger, while actually not making it any bigger because the whole City is never seen anyway.

    Assassin's Creed had many historical Cities, and a useless traveling system between them. That amount of freedom made the Holy Land a miniature model. Why can't game developers realize this? A large but closed area supposedly located within a large metropolitan area successfully sustains the illusion of it being located within a large metropolitan area. An entire free-roam "large metropolitan area" only sustains the illusion of a pretty small city.

    The changing skyboxes with many view angles of the city lights of the DC area in different levels of Splinter Cell 5 all added to the illusion that you were actually exploring locations near the real-life Washington DC. If there would have been the whole metropolitan area to explore, it would have been a miniature like in Fallout 3. The national mall from the capitol to Lincoln memorial is not 500m long. It's 3,5 kilometers.

    But I admit. A City too big isn't good. Not good for development, and it would be boring fro the player. But any size that's not impossibly large to develop would make the City look too small and it would lose it's mysterious unknown factors. It's supposed to be a mystery how big the City really is. It's supposed to have places where the player has never been and will never get to. And last but not least... if you can explore the entire City... there's no City to explore in Thief 5. Because any expansion or change would be severe retconning.

    Make the free roam whichever size you want, EM. Just don't let anyone see the City limits. And if you insist on naming one district as North- East- South- or West Quarter, do not,- I repeat DO NOT name any other quarter by it's compass quarter. Because by measuring all the pathetic 200 meters from the edge of the East quarter to the edge of the West quarter one could tell that the City is a little bit less narrow horizontally than Soulforge Cathedral was. Which makes sense about this much.

  10. #1035
    there are some games that have done this alltho they arent in the same gender as thief is. i strongly believe that no matter how big a city can be created, with the right ammount of work by the developers it can never be boring or drag you away from the main story (alltho there are many times that a gamer would like to avoid the main story and relax by moving around ). its something that you can see nowday in half of the pc games. For the ""It's supposed to be a mystery how big the City really is. It's supposed to have places where the player has never been and will never get to"" part i have to say that sure there will be part where the fellow thief will never visit, im just saying that some of them would be good to be explored as i mentioned the reason above.
    For the ""If an open-world city is created, I have to think it will either be too small, in which case it's TDS all over again, or sufficiently large that it'll seriously detract from the mission-specific areas."" sure theres no need to create a huge world like in mmos cause the game would be pointless however why not being a medium size? Above i say that they could create the whole city however access in each area would be granted by finishing some parts of the main story or some side quests. So that it wont detract you from the mission-specific areas. A good developer knows how to do that.

    For the ""The City in TDS was seriously anti-climactic. Some things are better left shown in fragments, skated around the edges, and implied by everything, rather than shown front and center in all their miserable glory.""
    Who says that it will be at the same level in the next game or games?Isnt that what every game developer tries to do?Improve his games? We may get astonished in front of the upcoming thief games. So never run in a conclusion like this one.

  11. #1036
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    All I'm saying Alageel, is that we don't need to see the city limits. If someone were to make it possible to get from one end of the City to the other without any warp zones in between, any size for the City that's within the capabilities of the developers to handle would make the City too small compared to the common concept that people have.

    In every piece of artwork we have seen the City skyline stretch as far as the eye can see. Anything less than that would break the continuity and make it a different city altogether.

  12. #1037
    Originally Posted by Alageel
    sure theres no need to create a huge world like in mmos cause the game would be pointless however why not being a medium size? Above i say that they could create the whole city however access in each area would be granted by finishing some parts of the main story or some side quests. So that it wont detract you from the mission-specific areas. A good developer knows how to do that.
    I meant that the quality/size of the missions will almost certainly get dropped as a result of having to design an entire city on the side.

    jtr's point about interiors/exteriors in existing open-city worlds is very true.
    But I'm right.

  13. #1038
    yes i know he is right but there are some games that did that. besides mind that im nt speaking of a sick-huge city so that the enteriors and exteriors with a lil good work won't be a problem.all they have to do is take the city as they thought of it to be and paste it in a medium sized map to measure up the distances and sizes of areas. Starting to structure one area at time deciding where to put exteriors nd interiors where to add main/side questlines where the player could interact with the world. and one more thing im not saying to create about 20 areas. this will be madness. they could just create 5 or 6 different areas that will cover the full scale of the city. which makes the things easier when it comes to carefull design and scripting

  14. #1039
    I reaaaallllyyy don't think anything from AC should be in the new T series.. Edios needs to step it up and be totally different and not "follow a trend" Thief has had it's own layout of how you play and i honestly don't think you should take away from their current path. Yea the towns are hella cool because their is so much around. But if you could actually go inside these buildings and gain vantage points to kill gaurds or sneak into "locked" buildings from going from window ledges. Also in this new installment you should be able to SWIM lol.

    Be able to find treasure underwater or travel under or into sewers leading into castle's???
    I liked deadly shadows for the fractions between the Hammer and pegans.

    Maybe in this chapter add some history into the game???

    AND PLEASEEE NO DUMB ASS ZOMBIE reminds me of playing f'n farcry or Wolfenstein.. it's like come on... go from killing humans to gay ass zombies or monsters.....If we wanted to kill zombies we'd f'n play "Left 4 dead 2" or "Nazi zombie" on COD lol. Or kill monsters on DooM...

    !!ALso.... MORE guards!!

    Some weapon idea's?? Maybe be able to shoot multiple arrows??? ;P
    A grappling hook for climbing buildings and also to be used to grab guards and force them to fall back//toward you lol Or be able to wrap around their legs and trip them???


    Mmmmm maybe have the ability to take ppl's cloths to "blend" so you can gain entrance to highly guarded place's

    Idea's on Plot... Maybe in this one have a Evil sidekick that helps you through some missions but is only trying to gain entrance to a secrete Glyph'd area with some kinda historic info about w.e fraction your with..... mmmm.. thats all i can think of for now lol... hope u guys enjoy my idea's and maybe Eidos use's some of my idea's.

    Nathan`~`
    `M3rk'd by th3 b3st`
    [[PrOjEcT9X]]

  15. #1040
    Originally Posted by Hypevosa
    Having anything respawn or be in infinite supply is also a dire mistake - loot should never be infinite, and neither should people.
    Would be hilarious if they made a "loot spawn" mechanic. You clear a room of jewels, only to see it all re-spawn a minute later

  16. #1041
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    Originally Posted by DarknessFalls
    Would be hilarious if they made a "loot spawn" mechanic. You clear a room of jewels, only to see it all re-spawn a minute later
    Yeah, I would be laughing as I uninstalled the game from my hard drive.

  17. #1042
    Lol!!

  18. #1043
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    Aug 2010
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    Box in triangle'ish Shape that TDP TMA Had.
    At least in limited edition.

  19. #1044
    Originally Posted by Vae
    Yeah, I would be laughing as I uninstalled the game from my hard drive.
    only to find it respawning on your hard drive a few moments later. That would be hilarious
    Crippled God, finally!

  20. #1045
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    Originally Posted by Lord Ornlu
    only to find it respawning on your hard drive a few moments later. That would be hilarious
    Yeah, I would be laughing as I wiped my drive...about the measures that would be taken shortly thereafter...

  21. #1046
    Loot respawn is not a good idea for a mission in Thief, well, actually it is a horrible idea.

    In TDS there was loot respawn in the open world in that case is not such a bad idea if it re-appears after 2 days(in-game).

  22. #1047
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    I would appreciate little details like if you rob a shop of too many goods too often it just goes out of business... or stealing peoples' rent money regularly just causes them to be evicted... stealing their food causes them to starve or be seen out on the streets begging... etc. Theft has repercussions, and I think that the city hub in TDS missed alot of opportunity for depth in that regard. If T4 has open world or city hub or anything of the like I'd much appreciate such attention to detail.
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  23. #1048
    Yes HYPE now your talking that would add a great deal of immersion.

  24. #1049
    • Ghostability. Every mission needs to be ghostable on the highest difficulty. There could be some loot locations that are impossible to reach without knocking someone out, but you'll just have to deal with only stealing the amount required and not all if you wish to ghost. Most importantly, no mission should have an objective that requires you to harm any AI in any way, or to draw attention to your presence. You should be able to finish the game without anyone seeing a glimpse of you. It doesn't mean that you get perfect stats, but the main thing is that you made through with 0 violence and 0 alerts.

    Absolutely!!!
    Roleplay a thief and not a killer.... and no lopped off arms or heads please.

  25. #1050
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    Originally Posted by jtr7
    The game should never force any player style on all players. Single missions can challenge in ways others don't, but no player-invented style should be imposed. Thief gave us a lot of freedom and choices within its defining parameters. No one should be pushed out who never was before. Ghosting should be the ultimate personal challenge, but even Garrett never ghosted all the time, nor personally killed living humans or the main villains directly.
    Ghosting shouldn't be imposed, but ghosting should be made possible. You probably wouldn't get nearly all the loot and secrets while ghosting, but thats the sacrifice you'd need to make when ghosing.

    There shouldn't be any point in the game where the primary objective of the mission requires you to use violence or run through a brightly lit hallway filled with unavoidable guards looking out specifically for you. In Thief 1 (original) you are never required to do either of those.

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