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Thread: First K&L2 story in magazine (art included)

First K&L2 story in magazine (art included)

  1. #176
    It's really disappointing, grievous, that you'd make the mistake of judging a game before actually playing it--the very thing many people did to Kane and Lynch. Uncharted gave you tons of situations that allowed you flexibility in how to approach them; I remember numerous times reloading sections to try going through the action from a different angle, stealthing all the way through, or doing a mix of both. There were those heavily scripted sections that led you down a single path, but those were so effective in CREATING A SENSE OF URGENCY that you didn't even notice.

    Uncharted 2 was awesome; you're doing yourself a disservice by not playing it.

  2. #177
    Originally Posted by gnrGrievous

    Among Thieves OH MY GOD ...
    Listen , this is the one of the most overrated games of the year , it's nothing but 'scripted action' (we're talking about the Gameplay here not of its technical quality) ... sure there were setpieces that looks awesome , but frankly , there isn't a real difference between looking at someone's playthrough on youtube and playing it by yourself , it's the same thing ...
    Even the Call of Duties aren't so scripted in comparison ...
    I mean look , Among Thieves is like this : you start from point A and you have to shoot your way to point B and so on ...
    Dead Men on the other hand : you start from point A and you have to shoot your way to point B , BUT , you had different ways of approaching from point A to point B ... that's what differs it from the 'scripted action' of Among Thieves ...
    I know exactly what you mean and I agree. Most current gen games feel very scripted and that basically takes away alot of the fun. But Uncharted2 is not one of those games, the shooting was simply fun and every time you managed to kill all the enemies during a firefight and move on you felt like you actually accomplished something. No uncharted 2 is awesome. The best example for this 'modern' kind of gameplay where everything is scripted is MW2 I couldn't stand playing it, it was horribly boring, something was very wrong about its gameplay.
    Edit: You haven't even played it? Well that explains your "opinion"...

  3. #178

    Cool

    My 'opinion' also told me that the crap load amount of negative reviews and bad comments ( from both the internet community and friends alike ) that Dead Men has accumulated isn't good enough to stop me from buying it ...
    And well you know the rest ...

    My point is that my 'opinion' rarely , if ever , deceived me ...
    Never have i had a change of heart after playing a game that i had a bad feeling about it at first ...
    The Latest example was Arkham Asylum , people said it was the best , i said it's a eight out of ten and not game of the year , i bought the game anywya because i'm a fan of Batman afterall ...
    Ah yes , turns out i was wrong , my opinion deceived me ...

    It wasn't a eight but a Seven out of ten ...

    Anywya , i already had the intention of buying Among Thieves some time next year , but tell you what , if my 'opinion' of this game turns out to be wrong In the positive sense , i'll buy you two a drink , if not , well ...

    We'll buy our drinks together ...

  4. #179
    still you shouldn't be complaining about it that much if you haven't even played it

  5. #180
    Originally Posted by TheMoD
    still you shouldn't be complaining about it that much if you haven't even played it
    Exactly.

  6. #181

    Lightbulb

    Maybe ,but i always complain about the games i'm absolutely sure that i will buy ...
    Which explains why people'll notice why i never complain about the sheer absurdity of Call of duty : No Russian ,sorry ,Modern Warfare 2 (despite seeing practically the full campaign on the net ,i won't voice my 'opinion' openly because i know i haven't and i'll never get the One element required to criticize any piece of work = experienced it thyself) ...

    Among Thieves is going to be in my game library ,i know it will be ,the bad demo of Dead Space and the supposedly 'easy' gameplay of Prince of Persia didn't stopped me from buying it ,and enjoyed them a lot too ...

    I don't see any real fuss about it really , some of you already know i'll give the same criticism for Among Thieves after i'll play it ...
    The only difference that changes is that I , Me , and myself only would have played the game ...
    How does it really matter to you reading about the 'preview' of my soon to be identical opinion ?...

  7. #182
    So what you're telling me is that you're going to go into this game with a preconceived notion about what's wrong with it? If you're looking for faults, you will find them--but that doesn't mean they're there. Just as the someone who has positive preconceptions about a game before going in won't find anything wrong with it unless there's something REALLY wrong with it--even then it's not for sure.

  8. #183

    Wink

    I never play a game with a 'preconceived notion' throughout my playthrough , even less if i intent on making a serious critique out of it ...

    No what am i saying is that for the most time , if i write a list of cons about a game without playing it , then put this list in a box , a few months latter after i played the game and wrote a new list of cons about it and starts comparing the two lists , i'll see that my first instincts were rather dead on accurate despite not thinking once of my original 'opinion' after all these months ...

    Dead Space , Prince of Persia and even Killzone 2 has proved that exceptions in the positive sense do happen , so i'll be glad if Among Thieves joins them as well , but i just doubt it ...

    So no , to answer your question , i don't play a game all way through screaming , even before it starts , that it's crap , it's too silly for me ...

    Edit : And if we're not suppose to have an 'opinion' , what in the world are people doing in forums ? ...

  9. #184
    I have no problem with opinions, nor do I have problem with you--just so we're clear. The way you were talking about your opinions, and your almost dead on accuracy in pegging a game's faults before even having played it suggested to me that you were doing something that isn't really beneficial to your enjoyment or critique of whatever it is you happen to be playing.

    But it don't matter none no more, so take it 'round back n' call it 'Yeller'.

  10. #185

    Unhappy

    Well now i find myself to be utterly lost ...

    And hungry ...

  11. #186
    Originally Posted by gnrGrievous
    Among Thieves OH MY GOD ...
    Listen , this is the one of the most overrated games of the year , it's nothing but 'scripted action' (we're talking about the Gameplay here not of its technical quality) ... sure there were setpieces that looks awesome , but frankly , there isn't a real difference between looking at someone's playthrough on youtube and playing it by yourself , it's the same thing ...
    Even the Call of Duties aren't so scripted in comparison ...
    I mean look , Among Thieves is like this : you start from point A and you have to shoot your way to point B and so on ...
    Dead Men on the other hand : you start from point A and you have to shoot your way to point B , BUT , you had different ways of approaching from point A to point B ... that's what differs it from the 'scripted action' of Among Thieves ...
    Who gives a if things were scripted? As long as it's great it's not a problem. Besides, Among Thieves had one thing that other games did not: The scripted scenes were interactive. Like the scene with the truck. There are so many different ways to get from point A to point B. And if you say overrated you also have to say Halo.

    At first i didn't believe the hype. It really needs a lot to convince me. Avatar? Boring as . Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2? Most disappointing game of 2009. Michael Bay would be *** embarrassed by it's dumb story. Bioshock? Boring. Gears of War 1? Couldn't even finish it because i was just bored to hell by it's non existing story.

    But when i played Uncharted 2. Just the first level, i caught myself saying things like: "WOW, What the just happened?" "What the hell?" "Jesus *** Christ that was awesome!". It been a long time since i did something like this. And the graphics? They are just breath taking. And i'm the last person that cares about graphics. I'm not even into this whole treasure hunt thing. I dislike Indiana Jones, but that game did so many things so damn right, that i just couldn't resist anymore.

    Play it.

  12. #187
    Uncharted was cool, but I only beat it once, no real incentive for me to play again. It didn't have that sort of replay value gameplay wise. Eh I liked Modern Warfare 2 a lot, didn't like the first one though. bioshock sucked, beat it within a days time, and took it back two days later literally. I thought both gears were badass. it's fun being two muscle bound dudes who kick mutant ass. Halo's lame and is something that should have ended at 3 officially.
    Xbox Live Gamertag: blood asylum

  13. #188

    Lightbulb

    IO's game have always been great because it never had to focus its gameplay on scripted action ... who cares if it's interactive or not , scripted action is still scripted action , it's a lack of 'free' interaction between the player and the in game scenery , scripted action dictates how the player should traverse each scene , leaving seemingly no place for the game character to 'breathe' in it , so far IO always managed to avoid doing that in their creations , and i hope they'll keep it that way ...

    On the side notes : whoa , and i thought i hated Bioshock , but it wasn't That boring , was it ? ...
    Half Life 2 on the other hand ...
    *shivers at the horrible memories*

  14. #189
    When I saw Uncharted's animations and graphics on my friends LCD flat panel I was simply amazed. The script wasn't great, but even at it's worst it was better than Kane & Lynch's, and that's kinda sad. I think the problem with the story, that I had at least, is that all the characters are terribly cliche. Nathan is not very compelling, and his nemesis is equally uninspired. The whole presentation is very polished and well-done, but it's cookie cutter high-budget game making, and I guess that's why I'm on a Kane & Lynch forum...

  15. #190
    Originally Posted by gnrGrievous
    IO's game have always been great because it never had to focus its gameplay on scripted action ... who cares if it's interactive or not , scripted action is still scripted action , it's a lack of 'free' interaction between the player and the in game scenery , scripted action dictates how the player should traverse each scene , leaving seemingly no place for the game character to 'breathe' in it , so far IO always managed to avoid doing that in their creations , and i hope they'll keep it that way ...

    On the side notes : whoa , and i thought i hated Bioshock , but it wasn't That boring , was it ? ...
    Half Life 2 on the other hand ...
    *shivers at the horrible memories*
    I think you obviously have a different definition of "scripted action" than I have, becouse K&L (hitman, and mini ninjas too) have tons of it.

    The way you talk about it makes me think K&L is some kind of procedural action game, wich is not. All IO games are very linear, story driven and scripted (yes the same word you seem to despise so much); they have to be scripted, to give each player the same experience, to deliver the story.

    So basically you think that Bioshock, Half Life2, Modern Warfare2 and Uncharted 2 are bad for the same reason that IO games are good.

    Seems like you just dislike some games becouse they are popular, as if you by playing K&L discovered an hidden gem of gaming; it's not like IO games are unknown either so what's the point? and if K&L was recognised as one of the best titles, wouldn't it be just as good?

    Being on the outside looking in with contempt, doesn't make you more knowledgeable about what you talk about, just more smug.

    Forgive my rant, and speculation about you, but all the talk about being a minority and bashing other more successful titles, while failing to provide a good reason for it, is quite embarassing.

  16. #191
    Originally Posted by gnrGrievous

    On the side notes : whoa , and i thought i hated Bioshock , but it wasn't That boring , was it ? ...
    Half Life 2 on the other hand ...
    *shivers at the horrible memories*
    Bioshock was boring as hell and Half Life 2 is an amazing shooter... (the orange box is basically the best value in the videogame market) that's just my opinion though...

  17. #192
    His reasoning was that the games he listed don't let the player interact with the AI in any meaningful way because those games are scripted so heavily. For Call of Duty, this is true (the enemies were never given an opportunity to actual do something other than be roadblocks for the player); for the others, no way--they were no more scripted than Kane and Lynch.

    Speaking of K&L, the only interaction I ever had with the AI in any given conflict in Kane and Lynch was bull-dozing over them because of their stupidity. IOI did a good job of creating situations that gave room for the AI to be able to move about and keep you on your toes, but the enemies were too basic in their AI script to actual do anything halfway intelligent.

    I just loved it when they stood still and waited for you to kill them.

  18. #193

    Lightbulb

    Originally Posted by UhUh
    I think you obviously have a different definition of "scripted action" than I have,
    I'm afraid that must be the case , not just with you but in fact with just about almost everyone , but i understand your point and it does makes me a embarrassment , and i Agree , nevertheless i still have a few words to say ... (which'll no doubt turn out to be a wall of text) ...

    No i don't dislike games simply because they're popular ... it's more about how overrated they are , i lived through a age where it was rare ti see a game getting a nine out of ten , and if it did it must have been 'exceptional' beyond comparison ... Now it is obviously not the case , in fact if a game doesn't get a nine out of ten it's practically an embarrassment for the gaming community ...
    Enter now the 'best game of the years' ...

    Modern Warfare 2 , guilty of putting logic out of the window : civilian dies equals Instant Dramatic Effect (just like in real life !) , things blows up absolutely everywhere because that's what special forces Do , and a astronaut makes a appearance because he slept with the game's producer (or Bob from Activision , whichever you prefer) ...
    Simply put , it Pretends that it is serious and dramatic while it is not , if it wasn't so pretentious about it and just said "we present you a bunch of thrill rides and we wouldn't even try to make your brain think" then i wouldn't have anything to rant about , but they didn't ... anywya ...

    Among Thieves guilty of ... Whoops ! i said i was gonna rant about it After playing it ...

    Half Life 2 , ah , while Modern Warfare 2 pretended that things were serious , Half Life 2 IS serious ... despite having a protagonnist that seriously lacks a motivation to lead a rebellion against a totalitarism alien regime ... No i'm not saying Freeman is a bad character because he can't speak , i'm saying that there never was a reason for a scientist to pick up shotguns and blast his ways through ventilations and annihilating entire alien species , and even less for Half Life 2's 'storyline' ...
    Oh , and the gameplay ? ...
    A piece of a cardboard box fell down on Gordon's head and instantly killed him ...
    That's the best way for me to describe it , really ...
    Add that to the complete lack of motivation to do all that is embarrassing for a game that is trying to evoke 'humanitarian' philosophy in your brains ...

    And no , to be able to stare at Alyx all day long is not a good motivation ...

    Bioshock ... yeah , chop off the third act which is nothing but a arcade shooter , THEN i might consider it as a game of the year ...

    Arkham Asylum ...
    I expected great things ...
    sigh ...

    The point is that when i see games being proclaimed as 'game of the year' i Expect Them to BE of excellent quality , and by quality i don't mean the graphics (both technical and artistical) , i mean how well the game communicates with the player , not necessarily how great the storyline is trying to make us feel , and not how immersive it is either , but how 'logical' the game's system works ...

    Portal worked ... and it highly deserves the praises ...
    The storyline was 'meh' really , but it nevertheless managed to make us feel that we're traversing that research center , and for a game that didn't gave you single textlined objective , it did make us wanting to traverse from point A to point B ...
    Of course it is all scripted , Every game is scripted , but it's about the art , the magic of keeping an 'illusion' that the player Can Be In Control ... even though in the end we're doing what the developpers intended , while playing we get this sensation that we're not just that avatar running around , instead we think it really is US that is doing all that ...

    Grand Theft Auto IV was a masterpiece of creating that illusion that you were the immigrant in that city , yet people complained that there wasn't any jet packs and i find it a bit depressing ...

    Do i hate popular and high rated games ? no , i just dislike them easily if they simply don't meet my expectations when they get high praises all over the board ...
    Killzone 2 was good , very good , deserved the nines out of ten , is it one of my favorite games No , but it did earned the recognition ...
    Arkham Asylum was good , but just good , i'm sure Rocksteady can do better next time , but how are they going to outdo themselves if people never Really Criticize about it ? ...

    Games like Grand Theft Auto IV , Portal , and perhaps even Fallout 3 have the right to be critically aclaimed games because it means that the developper couldn't outdone themselves (not counting the little negative feedback we might give them) ...

    Arkham Asylum was good for Rocksteady's second game , but if you tell them what they did was one of the best of this year , they'll think that this is the best that they can do , and will repeat making this game for a long time ...
    *gives a not-so-discreet look at Infinity Wards*

    it's not like every developper are like Rockstar North , and even their Grand Theft Auto are getting old , but the masterpiece they did pushed the illusion even further , that was quite unexpected ...

    What i'm fearing for IO Interactive is that when the day comes when they'll be a really highly respected developper , it'll be for a game that wasn't worth the praises ...
    It's all about rightfully 'deserving' the respect and praises , we all want IO to be respected , but it has to be for the right game ... and somehow i think that game was already made , Blood Money , it was the best of the Hitman series and sold not even half of what Silent Assassin did , imagine if IO can't outdo themselves for Hitman V , i mean just imagine , that the next Hitman isn't as good as their last one , BUT it gets called as game of the year ...
    Sounds ridiculous but with nowaday's mentality it can happen ...

    And what about Dog Days and their desire to make it even better than Among Thieves , if they somehow view themselves as a competitor then it must mean both their games are 'similar' enough to make competition ...

    Most of you would say it's a great thing and a testament to how gifted the boys and girls of IO Interactive are , i don't ...
    Does Grand Theft Auto have a competitor ? ... A Real competitor ? ...

    See , Rockstar's games didn't need a competiton to become great games , it's the same thing for IO , they don't need to compare to others in order to make masterpieces , do they ? ...

    And what exactly does Among Thieves symbolizes ? Mainstream audience , and since when did IO made games for the Mainstream Audience ? ...
    You don't compare your product to another belonging to the mainstream if yours don't resemble it ...
    Was the gerstmanngate so bad that IO had a complete change of policy that they'll make their games For that audience ? that same audience that liked Among Thieves ? that same audience that calls Kane & Lynch "crap" ? ...

    Yes i'm probably having a freak out , but i still think this is important ...

  19. #194
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    I seem to have a thing for enjoying games that critics hate lol.

    Haze for the PS3 was amazing, i really enjoyed it!

    Too Human was alright i guess but the levels were basically copy and pasted, especially the level which was a Jungle made of a metal.

    Blacksite was a enjoyable game i suggest people play to it, next on the list James Cameron Avatar! Oh and Mass Effect 2

    As long the game keeps me entertained im happy.

  20. #195

    Wink

    Haze literally destroyed Guns of the Patriot in terms of story development , gameplay , graphics , sound effect and box art ... PLUS the solo campaign is longer , Fact ...

    And Blacksite Area 51 was WAY Better than Half Life 2 , I'm not joking ...

    But the 'entertainment' factor doesn't always equal quality , so this is a bit off topic ...

  21. #196
    Originally Posted by gnrGrievous
    No i don't dislike games simply because they're popular ... it's more about how overrated they are , i lived through a age where it was rare ti see a game getting a nine out of ten , and if it did it must have been 'exceptional' beyond comparison ... Now it is obviously not the case , in fact if a game doesn't get a nine out of ten it's practically an embarrassment for the gaming community ...
    This is quite true, but game journalism is been on the watchlist for quite sometime, it has even called out for his conflic of interest with the developers and distributors; but this is another problem.

    I'm going to bypass the critics about the games you listed, I only played HL2 anyway, so I can't say much about them.


    Originally Posted by gnrGrievous
    The point is...how 'logical' the game's system works.
    Originally Posted by gnrGrievous
    but it nevertheless managed to make us feel that we're traversing that research center...it did make us wanting to traverse from point A to point B
    Originally Posted by gnrGrievous
    Every game is scripted , but it's about the art , the magic of keeping an 'illusion' that the player Can Be In Control.
    Ok so I got a list of quotes here that I agree with you.

    Originally Posted by gnrGrievous
    Grand Theft Auto IV was a masterpiece of creating that illusion that you were the immigrant in that city , yet people complained that there wasn't any jet packs and i find it a bit depressing.
    That is not MY complaint about it, GTA flaw is so big and obvious that I'm going to tell you about it later on :P

    Originally Posted by gnrGrievous
    i'm sure Rocksteady can do better next time , but how are they going to outdo themselves if people never Really Criticize about it ?
    This is true, but at the same time cut them some slack, they still have to make a product that have to sell and compete in the actual market, not our wanna-be-game-as-art world.

    Originally Posted by gnrGrievous
    Games like Grand Theft Auto IV , Portal , and perhaps even Fallout 3 have the right to be critically aclaimed games because it means that the developper couldn't outdone themselves (not counting the little negative feedback we might give them)
    While I agree with Portal, both GTA and Fallout have a common problem(aside form Fallout bugs/bad animation/other), but let's continue...


    Originally Posted by gnrGrievous
    What i'm fearing for IO Interactive is that when the day comes when they'll be a really highly respected developper , it'll be for a game that wasn't worth the praises.
    This was true for Tim Shafer too, but as it goes his last effort didn't get the praise he wanted, I believe that chasing fame for its own sake isn't worth it; people don't know what they want untill you show it to them, IO do what they do best, sometimes it goes well, other times it doesn't.

    Originally Posted by gnrGrievous
    And what about Dog Days and their desire to make it even better than Among Thieves , if they somehow view themselves as a competitor then it must mean both their games are 'similar' enough to make competition.
    The way I see it, they want to be competitive on the overall quality of the game, other than its content. Both are 3rd person action games, that's I guess the similarity they look foward too, but that's it. It could be just a publicity thing, they won't pull of an Uncharted2, but fighting against it may give them a good spotlight.

    Originally Posted by gnrGrievous
    And what exactly does Among Thieves symbolizes ? Mainstream audience , and since when did IO made games for the Mainstream Audience ?
    I'm pretty sure that IO would want the Mainstream money as much as any other audience(just look at mini ninjas), K&L too while may seem "edgy" in the videogame comunity, isn't anything new for the rest of the world.

    Originally Posted by gnrGrievous
    Was the gerstmanngate so bad that IO had a complete change of policy that they'll make their games For that audience ? that same audience that liked Among Thieves ? that same audience that calls Kane & Lynch "crap"?
    Of curse they do, they don't want to live in a niche market for IO fans only, they need to open up to everybody, this doesn't mean that they should or will do a sell out to mainstream desires.


    Anyway, What was that problem I was talking about GTA and Fallout?
    It's the same problem you were talking about that "keeping momentum and " for K&L; it's a common problem actually, but with open world games is even more evident: the game waits for the player.

    As good as GTA writing is, my Nicko Bellic coudn't care less about his revange, he was too busy going around Liberty City, there were SO much else to do in the game that I can't see why I should go on with the story.
    Same for Fallout, anybody tells you to forget about the main quest and just go around and look for everything else.

    But what about that story? shouldn't it be the main drive of the game?

    Farcry2 did it, the gameplay actually pushed you foward in the story, directly(the missions) and indirectly(you need more pills to survive); by the end you have few friends and enemies and the story, while it starts sloooow get going by the end, keeping you(me at least) intrested.

    With GTA or Fallout, the more you play the more you gain, the game is actually trying to stop you from going on with the story.

    Other games solved it another way, The Last Express, Dead Rising and Star Control 2, while different games have one common thing: they are in real time.

    Last Express uses it to let you spy on the other characters, and understand whats going on in the story before it's too late.

    Dead Rising uses it to give you anxiety, and forcing you to choose wich character to save.

    Star Control 2 uses it to give you a feeling of impending doom.

    Real time can be a pain in the ass, but it can also be a great thing; a game like K&L would benefit from it, the character are in a rush, there's no time to plan things out, just go with the flow: like for DeadRising, it should make you anxious and do mistakes!

    Complaining about it is like complaining about Penumbra being scary.

  22. #197
    Grievous, you sir, are an excellent incoherent rambler.

  23. #198

    Cool

    Well at least someone noticed ,been trying to make you guys realize that for the past week we've been on an off topic conversation about games and whatever while we're on a topic about global warming and ducks ,i mean what were we thinking ...

    Seriously i don't even know how this all got started ...
    Anywya ...

    *reads UhUh's reply*
    Actually the storyline of IV was very flawed ,it was all over the place ,there was a too big sense of freedom after you unlocked Algonquin ...
    The illusion lies more in your relationship to the city itself than towards your character's storyline ,that's what i wanted to see about Episodes from Liberty City ,whether a 'shorter' storyline worked better or not...

    For me Far Cry 2's brilliance is in creating in the player this feeling of Wanting to stay alive , not so much about the storyline ...
    The 'pills' however felt forced to me ...

    Whoa ,and i thought no one else played The Last Express ,cool ...
    Wait ...
    GENIUS !...
    *runs off to create new topic*

  24. #199
    Ya'll wanna take bets on the epiphany that has struck our good friend gnrGrievous straight through the brain?

    My money's on, "Make time in Kane and Lynch: Dog Days pass in real-time."

  25. #200

    Big Grin

    I'll bet on "Dog Days , a Point and Click ACTION GAME" ! ...

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