Thread: Batman: the Brave and the Bold

Batman: the Brave and the Bold

  1. #51
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    Originally Posted by stoobytoons
    Y'know (And I'm not picking on you, Old Ben, since you aren't the first person to suggest this POV) but I find that Robin being the thing holding Batman back as QUITE a convenient excuse for keeping the character around. In my mind, Robin has fans that want him around because, well, they just like the "Dynamic Duo" or that individual character..
    Robin has fans because he is a great character and very likeable, this goes to both Richard Grayson (whos now the Batman even, and his comics are on TOP SALES) and Tim Drake (now calling himself Tim Wayne) is now Red Robin, which is also on top 20 sales regarding all comic books, so really both characters are great as much as Bruce Wayne.

    So, I ask you, for a man who plucked himself from the excrement of his parents' murder and turned his life around for the betterment of mankind how is a 12 year-old supposed to add any bit of humanity to his psyche?
    I recommend getting Batman R.I.P which retells the story of Bruce's lifetime. Its Robin who was there with Bruce, it could have been a grown man with there, but Bruce chose Grayson because they shared the both fate: parents getting gunned down by a low life crook.

    The answer is simple: Robin - be it Grayson, Todd, Drake or whoever is born of a writer's early gimmick to make the comic book feel less crime noir and more "kid friendly," and subsequent writers have only spun the characters purpose in a way that really isn't necessary.
    Calling Jason Todd kid friendly just shows youre not on top notch knowing about the Robins, so could you please try to atleast learn abit more about them before debating about them?

  2. #52
    Originally Posted by stoobytoons
    To put it bluntly, BATB is the only Batman anything on tv right now that's actually new. To some people, if it's got Batman, it's worth watching.
    While I am a Batman purist, I can appreciate the fact that it's an attempt to do something different with the character. However "good writing" and "colorful characters" doesn't necessarily a "great" Batman show make.
    I know someone has already commented on this post, but I found this particular comment to be entertaining. First, they're not doing something different, they're revitalizing an entertaining but campy version of Batman from the old DC team ups of the Brave and the Bold comics. More importantly though, what does it mean to be a Batman purist? Batman has gone through so many changes over the last 70 years that there's really nothing pure left. I think being a Batman purist really means being open to appreciating the numerous incarnations of Batman in some way, despite having a favorite that doesn't agree with the style of the others. I love Brave and the Bold because it's goofy and lighthearted, and camp is usually one of the funniest things there can be in a superhero story.

    I'm reminded of a valentine card I saw spoofed once online. It had Batman swinging on his batrope and the card said "Swinging in to wish you a Happy Valentines Day". Someone added a caption that read something to the effect of "I watched my parents gunned down in cold blood when I was 8 and it has haunted me forever. I go out dressed as a bat to strike fear into criminals and wage my personal war against crime. On the rare occasion that I sleep, I wake up in a cold sweat from nightmares about my parents. Will you be my valentine?" Nowadays camp is more like a spoof of what logic tells us Batman should be, and can easily be appreciated as such. You should try it.

  3. #53
    Originally Posted by Ensanguined Walls
    I think it's unfair to judge the entire series on one episode. I can assure you that the show is not excessively campy, and many of the storylines in certain episodes are quite emotional. Consider watching "Hail the Tornado Tyrant!" (this episode has many parallels to Isaac Isamov's The Bicentennial Man) and "Invasion of the Secret Santas!".

    After viewing the entire series in a marathon with Drazar and AdamWest, I will admit that I misjudged the Brave and the Bold. It's a treat for Batman fans that want a lighthearted, cameo-infused joyride to show off the variety in the DC universe, but it also manages to surprise you with serious moments. Batman's character is completely well-written, and Paul Dini himself has even been an occasional guest writer. They don't shy away from showing the tragedy of Batman's character, and each episode reminds us why he values the companionship of his friends, from humorous competitions with Green Arrow to pondering life with Red Tornado.





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  4. #54
    Originally Posted by Allanon
    but when he is like he was in the Animated Series he is a likable sensible character who makes a logical evolution to becoming Nightwing.
    He annoyed me in TAS too. Whenever I'm engaged in some media of Batman, I become instantly disappointed if I find out Robin is involved at all. The only time I actually thought Robin was likable was in Batman Forever and Batman and Robin. Unfortunately... well, you're all Batman fans, so you should understand why that's unfortunate.

  5. #55
    Originally Posted by Vigilance
    He annoyed me in TAS too. Whenever I'm engaged in some media of Batman, I become instantly disappointed if I find out Robin is involved at all. The only time I actually thought Robin was likable was in Batman Forever and Batman and Robin. Unfortunately... well, you're all Batman fans, so you should understand why that's unfortunate.
    Robin in those movies is what I meant when I said "Cowabunga" Robin... When he isn't trying to be extreme he is whining about something or another... I don't see any appeal there whatsoever.
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  6. #56
    Originally Posted by Vigilance
    He annoyed me in TAS too. Whenever I'm engaged in some media of Batman, I become instantly disappointed if I find out Robin is involved at all. The only time I actually thought Robin was likable was in Batman Forever and Batman and Robin. Unfortunately... well, you're all Batman fans, so you should understand why that's unfortunate.
    I recognize that Robin was only added to make Batman a little less dark so that kids could read it without parents complaining, but Robin serves an important purpose in Batman mythology nowadays, along with the rest of the Gotham Knights characters. Bruce Wayne lost his entire family as a child, and has been rebuilding it through the numerous Robins, Batgirls, and even Gordon and Alfred. Including Robin adds depth to Batman. If you want to consider Richard Grayson specifically, Batman takes him in and makes him the first Robin because his intention when he became Batman, regardless of what his oath said explicitly, was to prevent anyone from ever suffering the pain he suffered as a child. Becoming Batman was how he controlled that pain, and when he couldn't stop Grayson from losing his family in the same way, taking him on as Robin is how Batman protected him from that same suffering.

  7. #57
    Originally Posted by Drazar
    Robin has fans because he is a great character and very likeable, this goes to both Richard Grayson (whos now the Batman even, and his comics are on TOP SALES) and Tim Drake (now calling himself Tim Wayne) is now Red Robin, which is also on top 20 sales regarding all comic books, so really both characters are great as much as Bruce Wayne.
    Okay, "Robin has fans because he's 'likable'" isn't much of a distinction from what I said.
    I believe it was you, Drazar, that said "Batman isn't Batman without the rest of the Bat-family." In fact, I would go as far to say that saying "Robin has fans because he's likable" is horribly redundant. Do you think you can express your opinion and clearer than this? Because it doesn't sound like you've got much to add to that point.


    I recommend getting Batman R.I.P which retells the story of Bruce's lifetime. Its Robin who was there with Bruce, it could have been a grown man with there, but Bruce chose Grayson because they shared the both fate: parents getting gunned down by a low life crook.
    As soon as you get into these different Earth dimensions, there's a lot of room for interpretation and, to be honest, the R.I.P. story line never caught on with me. So, I'm not sure if you are saying that Grayson's parents were gunned down in the RIP history, or if you are saying that they simply died from the fall (per CANON) and their death reflected the Wayne murders. Either way, what am I supposed to be enlightened with? A brand-new history written for a story line who's premise reeks of the word "gimmick"? I think that in my 27 years of being a Batman fan (and at one point a Robin fan) I have learned just all about all I really need to know about the character to make an educated choice concerning my personal opinion about him.


    Calling Jason Todd kid friendly just shows youre not on top notch knowing about the Robins, so could you please try to atleast learn abit more about them before debating about them?
    Drazar. You're obviously too obtuse to recognize the meaning of what "fundamental understanding" would suggest. Let me state it again, and I want you to do me the favor of actually reading the words, taking a breath, and considering what I am saying:

    ROBIN - who ever it is [now], was BORN of the idea that the Batman comics were TOO DARK and should be more KID FRIENDLY. To spell it out, think of the 1940's. Oddly enough, the Batman universe wasn't created in 2004. The character has evolved over time, true! But does having a brightly colored CHILD running around chasing psychos like the Joker, Ra's al Ghul (who captured Todd, I might add), Zsasz, etc., ACTUALLY make sense? If so, explain why there was no Bat-boy -- no 14 year old Bruce Wayne running around trying to fight crime.

    Guys, there is a reason you aren't seeing Robin on film as a serious consideration. There's a reason the Grayson's show was canceled. It's not because they don't have good writers out there. It's because the character just doesn't fit in a realistic setting.
    Does Nightwing work? Sure!! Why not? He's strong enough to be intimidating, but he's smart enough to know that you don't go out at night in a bright orange vest unless you are flagging on Main Street.

    Every kid wants to be Batman's partner. Robin, at his inception, gave life to that possibility.

    Also, Drazar, I seem to remember you arguing with me about how un-campy The Brave and the Bold was. Many of it's supporters are obviously disagreeing with you. You might want to line-by-line have it out with them as well.
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  8. #58
    Watching it right now on television. Its is entertaining but I pretty much love all things batman
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  9. #59
    The show is taking Batman in a wrong direction...
    but i do agree it's doing good, with a nice talent of stories and animation.
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  10. #60
    Originally Posted by DarkKnight11
    I know someone has already commented on this post, but I found this particular comment to be entertaining. First, they're not doing something different, they're revitalizing an entertaining but campy version of Batman from the old DC team ups of the Brave and the Bold comics. More importantly though, what does it mean to be a Batman purist? Batman has gone through so many changes over the last 70 years that there's really nothing pure left. I think being a Batman purist really means being open to appreciating the numerous incarnations of Batman in some way, despite having a favorite that doesn't agree with the style of the others. I love Brave and the Bold because it's goofy and lighthearted, and camp is usually one of the funniest things there can be in a superhero story.

    I'm reminded of a valentine card I saw spoofed once online. It had Batman swinging on his batrope and the card said "Swinging in to wish you a Happy Valentines Day". Someone added a caption that read something to the effect of "I watched my parents gunned down in cold blood when I was 8 and it has haunted me forever. I go out dressed as a bat to strike fear into criminals and wage my personal war against crime. On the rare occasion that I sleep, I wake up in a cold sweat from nightmares about my parents. Will you be my valentine?" Nowadays camp is more like a spoof of what logic tells us Batman should be, and can easily be appreciated as such. You should try it.
    Thanks for your rebuttal. Now let me point out where I take issue with the points you've made:

    "Revitalizing" a disappointing epoch of Batman lore is less of an achievement than it is an effort to mark time and take a step backward. I understand that there is an ebb and flow to everything; why should Batman be any different? There will be dark, gritty Batmen and zany, chum-o Batmen. It's the nature of the best.

    But to explain the purity of what Batman "is" - you need only research his inception. It takes only a moment to be honest with one's self and realize that the "camp" is there for comedic relief. But the tragic hero that Batman actually is, at his core, carries nothing if not the darkness that his soul is drenched in. So, being pure, honest and sincerely connected with that interpretation is exactly why so many fans have clamored for a game like Batman: Arkham Asylum, for example. No body wants a Batman game that plays like Super Mario but that is what the Brave and the Bold gives you. Does this mean there aren't "serious" moments in the show? Obviously not. Every Adam Sandler movie has drama and conflict in it. Does that mean it's a sure thing for Oscar night? Of course, not every Saving Private Ryan is without moments of comic relief. It really isn't so black and white. But it's safe to say that there is a ratio there that sets the tone; the Joel Schumacher films are another example of drawing on less favorable material.

    There's something about Batman, the property, that many folks aren't understanding: he is a product. And with any product, you have to introduce something new (i.e. Batman Beyond) or rehash something old (i.e. the Brave and the Bold) to bring in new business. That's the nature of the beast. But strip away the marketing schemes, lunch boxes, action figures, and trading cards, and focus on the legend of the man who pulled himself from the ashes to fight injustice and evil in the name of his slain parents -- that is the purist form of what Batman "is."


    As far as finding an honest appreciation for the show: I've looked. I can't.

    As far as it being an "old" idea as opposed to being "different," I'm not sure how that's supposed to sell me on the show. But if being an old idea is a road less traveled, perhaps they should stop writing about "good versus evil." Better yet, they can screw with a character that doesn't already have a tumultuous past - The Flash, perhaps.
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  11. #61
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    If this is the wrong direction, what is the "right" one? Since even the modern Batman stories are more lighter and more happy-adventures, Batman has a flying batmobile car/ship and Richard Grayson (Batman) smiles allt he time and cracks jokes. So really after 70 years of history, there really is no "wrong" or "right" direction, its taking the best aspects of Batman from the 70 years of long history.

  12. #62
    Originally Posted by Drazar
    If this is the wrong direction, what is the "right" one? Since even the modern Batman stories are more lighter and more happy-adventures, Batman has a flying batmobile car/ship and Richard Grayson (Batman) smiles allt he time and cracks jokes. So really after 70 years of history, there really is no "wrong" or "right" direction, its taking the best aspects of Batman from the 70 years of long history.
    Play Arkham Asylum. You'll get it.
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  13. #63
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    Originally Posted by stoobytoons
    Okay, "Robin has fans because he's 'likable'" isn't much of a distinction from what I said.
    I believe it was you, Drazar, that said "Batman isn't Batman without the rest of the Bat-family." In fact, I would go as far to say that saying "Robin has fans because he's likable" is horribly redundant. Do you think you can express your opinion and clearer than this? Because it doesn't sound like you've got much to add to that point.
    Whats there more to say? Robin is a greatly written character, with a supporting cast of his own and has a fanbase, just like Batman. Theres nothing more to add.

    Ra's al Ghul (who captured Todd, I might add), Zsasz, etc., ACTUALLY make sense? If so, explain why there was no Bat-boy -- no 14 year old Bruce Wayne running around trying to fight crime.
    Because Bruce never had someone to train him like the Robins had maybe? Bruce had to travel all around the world to train himself but the Robins got everything needed from Bruce himself . Makes sense, and hey lets not forget that comic where Bruce turned into Bat-boy/Baby!

    Guys, there is a reason you aren't seeing Robin on film as a serious consideration. There's a reason the Grayson's show was canceled. It's not because they don't have good writers out there. It's because the character just doesn't fit in a realistic setting.
    Does Nightwing work? Sure!! Why not? He's strong enough to be intimidating, but he's smart enough to know that you don't go out at night in a bright orange vest unless you are flagging on Main Street.
    Robin on a film as serious consideration? So Tim Burton's Batman 3 wasn't a serious consideration? Things would be different with Robin if he had been treated by a good director. Also the Grayson show was canceled due to the horrible ideas, its much easier to make a Smallville show then Grayson since Batman is such a pivotal part of Grayson's life. Still it doesn't mean his comics or comic fanbase is meaningless, not to mention the praise of Richard being Batman neither. =)

    Also, Drazar, I seem to remember you arguing with me about how un-campy The Brave and the Bold was. Many of it's supporters are obviously disagreeing with you. You might want to line-by-line have it out with them as well.
    Campy is such a wrong used word in my opinion regarding the show, i can admit they use cheesy one-liners but if they wanna call it campy they sure can. Atleast people here aren't trying to claim its a disgrace to Batman or trying to say they just wanna earn easy money thru toys and BTAS was made by people with golden hearts and no intentions of earning money like some have.

    Originally Posted by stoobytoons
    Play Arkham Asylum. You'll get it.
    Sorry i'm not too much into "1 type of Batman" from his 70 year history, i can accept the wide variety of the Batman history unlike some ofcourse. Brave and Bold is as much loyal to the comic franchise as Dini's writing has been.

  14. #64




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  15. #65
    Originally Posted by Old_BenKenobi
    People who dislike the series without having watched it take Batman too seriously and are missing the point.

    I myself am getting tired of the "ZOMG IT NEEDZ TO B DARK AND GLOOMY OR IT AINT BATMAN!!" attitude that a lot of Batfans seem to be expressing. A nice, light-hearted romp is always fun.

    yeah now and again, but i think that we all agree that mr. kevin conroy and the crew of TAS set the bar for what a Batman series should be, now don't get me wrong i love the 60's batman, the bat shark repellant has my in bits XD so i can see where you are coming from, but i can also see the other side of the coin

  16. #66
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    Originally Posted by RedHoodSecondSon
    yeah now and again, but i think that we all agree that mr. kevin conroy and the crew of TAS set the bar for what a Batman series should be, now don't get me wrong i love the 60's batman, the bat shark repellant has my in bits XD so i can see where you are coming from, but i can also see the other side of the coin
    Well if every Batman cartoon was like TAS, that wouldn't be any fun, right? The Batman tried this and it wasn't *that* well received compared to Brave and Bold and TAS which are both instant classics to DC/Batman fans and the response has been just great.

    PS. Outrageous pictures AdamWest!

  17. #67
    Oh man I'm glad you guys love Brave and the Bold as much as I do. I thought I'd have to put up with GRIMDARK RGHHH TDK fans all the time.

  18. #68
    Originally Posted by HenryundertheC
    The show is taking Batman in a wrong direction...
    but i do agree it's doing good, with a nice talent of stories and animation.
    I disagree, the wrong direction would be making a show that is just trying to do what The Animated Series already did. It would never be as good and most longtime fans of Batman would draw constant comparison to TAS just to point out it wasn't nearly as good (The Batman). I'm glad they decided to take Batman in a new direction, something more lighthearted that will get rid of any comparisons simply by the shows being so different. Honestly unless Bruce Timm and WB decide to continue TAS, then I hope to see this show refine its style and writing until it reaches towards perfection of a different kind.

    Originally Posted by stoobytoons
    Play Arkham Asylum. You'll get it.
    Arkham Asylum is a game. Batman games have never gotten the critical response among games like TAS got among cartoons, there is still lots of room to expand. Would a Brave and the Bold type game work for Batman in games? Yea there is a ton they could do with it, but that they haven't fully explored what many people (myself included) consider the definitive Batman in game form leaves much to be wanted.

    I like a dark Batman story as much as the next guy, but that doesn't mean it has to be the exclusive interpretation of the character. That there is such a wealth of material gives people more opportunity to connect with a Batman that they like best.
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  19. #69
    Originally Posted by Allanon
    I disagree, the wrong direction would be making a show that is just trying to do what The Animated Series already did. It would never be as good and most longtime fans of Batman would draw constant comparison to TAS just to point out it wasn't nearly as good (The Batman). I'm glad they decided to take Batman in a new direction, something more lighthearted that will get rid of any comparisons simply by the shows being so different. Honestly unless Bruce Timm and WB decide to continue TAS, then I hope to see this show refine its style and writing until it reaches towards perfection of a different kind.
    What I am trying to say is the change from The Batman and Batman Beyond to Brave and the Bold was not a good turn. Even though all three are well done B&B is at the bottom of the list. Can't top the nineties.
    Just because the style is more retro, nalstalgic and portrayed well means nothing. It still draws in the more younger audience then the others, Gotham Knights (the new adventures of batman & robin) was basically TAS and it did a good job. It didn't live up to its predecessor but it would still be well accepted among both adults and todays youth unlike B&B focussing more on the old and rather young and not in between generations.

    What we really need is a well-down-to-earth cgi series. ALL CGI is crap except the video games, so why not just get the developers to make a tv series? I would love to just watch a video game cutscene like tv show for half an hour.
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  20. #70
    For me personally, it's not a matter of what's the right batman and what's the wrong batman. I don't read comics so I wouldn't be in the position to make that call anyway. For me personally, it's a matter of what's an awesome batman and what's a ty batman.

  21. #71
    Originally Posted by HenryundertheC
    What I am trying to say is the change from The Batman and Batman Beyond to Brave and the Bold was not a good turn. Even though all three are well done B&B is at the bottom of the list. Can't top the nineties.
    Just because the style is more retro, nalstalgic and portrayed well means nothing. It still draws in the more younger audience then the others, Gotham Knights (the new adventures of batman & robin) was basically TAS and it did a good job. It didn't live up to its predecessor but it would still be well accepted among both adults and todays youth unlike B&B focussing more on the old and rather young and not in between generations.

    What we really need is a well-down-to-earth cgi series. ALL CGI is crap except the video games, so why not just get the developers to make a tv series? I would love to just watch a video game cutscene like tv show for half an hour.
    3D animation never bodes well for TV. 2D still looks great and can perfectly capture the atmosphere that often times feels too sterile in 3D.

    Right, because Brave and the Bold is something that really hasn't been attempted with Batman since the 70's, so it is still trying to find its legs. Give it time, it is well done now but it is certainly on a path to being comparable to the classics in terms of quality (as seen by stellar episodes like Legends of the Dark Mite).
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  22. #72
    Originally Posted by Drazar
    Whats there more to say? Robin is a greatly written character, with a supporting cast of his own and has a fanbase, just like Batman. Theres nothing more to add.
    I'll take that as a "no" to my question.


    Because Bruce never had someone to train him like the Robins had maybe? Bruce had to travel all around the world to train himself but the Robins got everything needed from Bruce himself . Makes sense, and hey lets not forget that comic where Bruce turned into Bat-boy/Baby!
    What are you talking about? According to the comics, he gave that vow shortly after his parents died. He was 8. He also had something Richard Grayson didn't have: money. He could have easily said, "My inheritance is going to take me around the world and learn how to fight and be a detective by the time I'm 14!" But who in their right mind is going to believe that a 14 year old can take on the entire underbelly of the one of the most corrupt, crime-ridden cities in literary history? I say "right mind," Drazar; no need to chime in there.


    Robin on a film as serious consideration? So Tim Burton's Batman 3 wasn't a serious consideration?
    Well, DUDE, Tim Burton only served as an executive producer on the film... which was called Batman Forever. The film was actually directed by a guy named Joel Schumacher. You might want to get that straight once and for all.
    Secondly, no. It wasn't a serious consideration or interpretation. Look at the facts:

    • Richard was in his late teens in the film.
    • He had a brother, I believe his name was Eric. WHY? Smallest role ever and further separated the film from the source material.
    • Two-Face killed his parents - this wasn't the case either in the comics but it served as a convenient tie-in, since apparently everyone has to know everyone else in order for a plot to work.
    • "Holy rusted metal!"


    I won't even start on why the next film was so awful.

    But it still proves my point, which is a young boy masquerading as a costumed crime-fighter just isn't safe, nor is it practical. If it were, then there would be no reason to set his age as high as they often do in film and animated interpretations (save for Gotham Knights' Tim Drake which was more like Jason Todd with the 3rd Robin's name; even then it doesn't make much sense - consider the episode where Joker kidnapped Tim and was later killed. It addresses the issue of a young Robin.)


    Things would be different with Robin if he had been treated by a good director.
    How so? We all know Chris Nolan is a fantastic director. And there are plenty of fantastic directors out there that would love to get their hands on Batman. Explain why anyone else taking over the franchise would convince me that a child fighting the mob makes any sense.


    Also the Grayson show was canceled due to the horrible ideas, its much easier to make a Smallville show then Grayson since Batman is such a pivotal part of Grayson's life.
    Firstly, the CW is full of rotten apples. Smallville is no exception.
    Secondly, you're right. Batman is such a central part of the character of Robin -- it doesn't work the other way around.
    Thirdly, Richard was going to be set in his high school years, prior to becoming Robin. Precisely, once again, following the age-old dilemma of why sending a child out to be a hero is the wrong thing to do.


    Still it doesn't mean his comics or comic fanbase is meaningless, not to mention the praise of Richard being Batman neither. =)
    Please find the quote where I said his comics or fanbase has no meaning.
    Frankly, I hear more praise from DC comics employees than from individual readers. But we aren't talking about Richard as Batman, are we? Since, after all, he's an adult now and had been Nightwing for a really long time before these current events took place.


    Campy is such a wrong used word in my opinion regarding the show, i can admit they use cheesy one-liners but if they wanna call it campy they sure can. Atleast people here aren't trying to claim its a disgrace to Batman or trying to say they just wanna earn easy money thru toys and BTAS was made by people with golden hearts and no intentions of earning money like some have.
    But it is easy money. BTAS easily spent no less than 1 million dollars an episode to put out the show. Each show had a unique story, musical score, and raised the bar for dramatic animation.
    The Brave and the Bold follows a pretty similar formula from show to show, capitalizing on silly team-ups, moderate production value, and obscure characters that nobody but the nostalgia whores really give a crap about. Do I care to see Crazy Quilt? F no.


    Sorry i'm not too much into "1 type of Batman" from his 70 year history, i can accept the wide variety of the Batman history unlike some ofcourse. Brave and Bold is as much loyal to the comic franchise as Dini's writing has been.
    "Accepting" and "favoring" are two very different decisions, Drazar. Again, please find a quote where I don't acknowledge that Batman doesn't have a vast history. I believe it was two posts ago that I admitted he has had a tumultuous past.
    But it seems you and I are talking about very different things and your apparent opinion only bolsters the statement that I made long ago: if it's Batman, it's worth watching.

    So, let me sum it up for you with a metaphor: I like steak. It's one of my favorite meals.
    I like it cooked to medium, pepper crusted and with a side of horse radish.
    If someone were to lay down a slab of rare New York (people have had rare steak before) with a globule of maple syrup and blue berries piled in the center (I guess to sweeten it up for the kids) you better believe I'd send it back to the kitchen.

    I've got standards with Batman, Drazar... un. like. some. .
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  23. #73
    Originally Posted by stoobytoons
    But it still proves my point, which is a young boy masquerading as a costumed crime-fighter just isn't safe, nor is it practical. If it were, then there would be no reason to set his age as high as they often do in film and animated interpretations (save for Gotham Knights' Tim Drake which was more like Jason Todd with the 3rd Robin's name; even then it doesn't make much sense - consider the episode where Joker kidnapped Tim and was later killed. It addresses the issue of a young Robin.)
    I don't see how it being unsafe or impractical makes it not make sense. Batman isn't mentally all that stable, and clearly is very capable of bad decisions. And when he is portrayed as a late teen it is usually to make him seem more extreme, lot's of movies turn child characters into trendy teen ones (Dragonball Evolution anyone?)




    How so? We all know Chris Nolan is a fantastic director. And there are plenty of fantastic directors out there that would love to get their hands on Batman. Explain why anyone else taking over the franchise would convince me that a child fighting the mob makes any sense.
    That's a good point, let's ask the guy dressed as a bat jumping from the rooftops fighting crime to make sense of it... Oh right its a work of fiction, sometimes a suspension of disbelief has to be there a little bit. Also, despite the origins for Robin being maybe shallow or just an attempt to add a character children could connect to, they really have found ways to make him work, and work very well.

    Please find the quote where I said his comics or fanbase has no meaning.
    Frankly, I hear more praise from DC comics employees than from individual readers. But we aren't talking about Richard as Batman, are we? Since, after all, he's an adult now and had been Nightwing for a really long time before these current events took place.




    But it is easy money. BTAS easily spent no less than 1 million dollars an episode to put out the show. Each show had a unique story, musical score, and raised the bar for dramatic animation.
    The Brave and the Bold follows a pretty similar formula from show to show, capitalizing on silly team-ups, moderate production value, and obscure characters that nobody but the nostalgia whores really give a crap about. Do I care to see Crazy Quilt? F no.
    BTAS did raise the bar, far too high for a production like that to occur again today. The show is great, but it is also over, and a show trying to be it would be awful (The Batman). The show is formulaic in that it has a hero with Batman against some Villain, but that doesn't mean each story is the same. Legends of the Dark Mite was very different than say, the Deadman episode, or the Plasticman Gorilla Grodd episode. There is plenty of differentiation and it is clear there is a wonderful creative spark behind a lot of the show. And maybe you don't care about Crazy Quilt, but it is a way of introducing people to a wealth of comic characters they probably never heard of.

    So, let me sum it up for you with a metaphor: I like steak. It's one of my favorite meals.
    I like it cooked to medium, pepper crusted and with a side of horse radish.
    If someone were to lay down a slab of rare New York (people have had rare steak before) with a globule of maple syrup and blue berries piled in the center (I guess to sweeten it up for the kids) you better believe I'd send it back to the kitchen.

    I've got standards with Batman, Drazar... un. like. some. .
    I think its more like cake and pie. Some people will claim one is better than the other for no reason than trying to convince themselves what they like is the best, while some people are just happy to have two good things and enjoy both of them.
    Aw Cheez-Wiz!

  24. #74
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    6,831
    Originally Posted by stoobytoons
    What are you talking about? According to the comics, he gave that vow shortly after his parents died. He was 8. He also had something Richard Grayson didn't have: money. He could have easily said, "My inheritance is going to take me around the world and learn how to fight and be a detective by the time I'm 14!" But who in their right mind is going to believe that a 14 year old can take on the entire underbelly of the one of the most corrupt, crime-ridden cities in literary history? I say "right mind," Drazar; no need to chime in there.
    Hey it could be done but with the Silver Age tune more than Bronze Age, your suggestion just reminds me of Millar's Kick Ass which is getting its own movie soon too.

    Well, DUDE, Tim Burton only served as an executive producer on the film...
    Actually i was literally talking about Tim Burton's planned Batman 3 with Robin Williams as Riddler, Billy Dee Williams as Harvey Two-Face and Marlon Wayans as Robin the boy wonder. =) I also really don't see the problem of showing a late-teens Robin since even Batman is far older then his comic counterpart was in his early days. I don't see people complain about it so why should they complain about teen Robin?

    But it still proves my point, which is a young boy masquerading as a costumed crime-fighter just isn't safe, nor is it practical. If it were, then there would be no reason to set his age as high as they often do in film and animated interpretations (save for Gotham Knights' Tim Drake which was more like Jason Todd with the 3rd Robin's name; even then it doesn't make much sense - consider the episode where Joker kidnapped Tim and was later killed. It addresses the issue of a young Robin.)
    what issue is there with a young Robin?

    The Brave and the Bold follows a pretty similar formula from show to show, capitalizing on silly team-ups, moderate production value, and obscure characters that nobody but the nostalgia whores really give a crap about. Do I care to see Crazy Quilt? F no.
    First of all this is your last warning regarding your language. Calling us with nicknames because we like a show that shows older times then when we were even born makes us... Yeah whatever you call us. Also we all know you don't like this show, but why do you come to this thread to complain about it? This show has a huge fanbase and even the guy who owns Batman-on-film loves this show because it reminds himself of his childhood, and the children love this show because its high action, hilarious and most of all: Kickass Batman action. Not to mention with great humour, upcoming musical episode, and high demand this show is going to be remembered as nostalgic as TAS is nowdays.

    I've got standards with Batman, Drazar... un. like. some. .
    Again watch your tongue here, implying that some of us don't have standards because we like more variety then just Grim Dark Batman, is just tasteless.

    PS. And now, for something Outrageous!

  25. #75
    Drazar,do you know when TBATB is coming back in the US?

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