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Thread: TR Underworld Auto-aim

  1. #1
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    TR Underworld Auto-aim

    hello guys! I must say the new tomb raider game looks really really good. I simply can't wait for it!!! I'm not sure if i'm the only person thinking this... so feel free if anyone else feels the same way.

    Its about the auto-aim feature that has been present since the very first TR game. Now I understand that the auto-aim feature was really needed back in early days. Obviously... it was going to be impossible to aim with just a control pad. However these days are different. With todays analog and keyboard/mouse controls, I can't help but wonder what the latest TR game would be like without the auto-aim. I feel that today there shouldn't be an auto-aim feature enabled. It just takes away the challenge and fun of the game in my opinion. Obviously there will be people that will disagree on this. So wouldn't it be great if the developers could put in an option to disable or enable the auto-aiming feature? Are there any plans in the future for this. In this game or future TR projects? Thanks for listening.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aolish View Post
    hello guys! I must say the new tomb raider game looks really really good. I simply can't wait for it!!! I'm not sure if i'm the only person thinking this... so feel free if anyone else feels the same way.

    Its about the auto-aim feature that has been present since the very first TR game. Now I understand that the auto-aim feature was really needed back in early days. Obviously... it was going to be impossible to aim with just a control pad. However these days are different. With todays analog and keyboard/mouse controls, I can't help but wonder what the latest TR game would be like without the auto-aim. I feel that today there shouldn't be an auto-aim feature enabled. It just takes away the challenge and fun of the game in my opinion. Obviously there will be people that will disagree on this. So wouldn't it be great if the developers could put in an option to disable or enable the auto-aiming feature? Are there any plans in the future for this. In this game or future TR projects? Thanks for listening.
    It should be an option for games to disable/enable auto-aim if the player sees fit, I agree.

    I'm not sure if thats apart of the player tailoring that was announced though. Might be.

  3. #3
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    Not sure what it did because I never moved it from Automatic, but Last Revelation on the PC has an Automatic and Manual option for the aiming.

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    wow, didn't know this. Never played anniversary. The only TR games I played were TR1,2,3 and Legends... thats pretty much it. Nonetheless an option to auto-aim would be nice. I just recently got done with gears of war, and i just can't help but think lara in fenix's shoes. lol

  5. #5
    It's true TR4 had the opcion for automatic or manual aiming, but I just never figured out out how to manually aim...I asked in forums but no one knew... When I selected manual aiming lara would just do as though there was no enemy.

  6. #6
    I love auto aim, i played uncharted and it was all manual and i didn't enjoy it as it slowed the progress of the game and would make all laras dodging and flips a bit awkward
    Can't wait till Dec!!!

  7. #7
    Hey Aolish,

    TR4 is one of the best games in the lot I feel...don't miss it
    Of course its set fully in Egypt alone...but excellent puzzles..sprinkled with action here and there.. it builds to an exciting climax!!

    _Sammy_

  8. #8
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    Lightbulb

    Manual aiming in TR4 (and it was available in TR5, IIRC) is a very petty addition. Basically, Lara will only aim onto the baddies when you tap the Look button (she'll remain locked onto said baddy until she loses sight of it). And like in the automatic mode, this button will also switch targets when there's more than one on screen.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by aolish View Post
    I just recently got done with gears of war, and i just can't help but think lara in fenix's shoes. lol
    Gears of War is a 3rd person shooter. Free aiming in a shooter genre makes sense... so then it takes a bit of skill to shoot the enemy, etc. Free aiming wouldn't go well in Tomb Raider... not just because of the gameplay...

    Quote Originally Posted by aolish View Post
    Its about the auto-aim feature that has been present since the very first TR game. Now I understand that the auto-aim feature was really needed back in early days. Obviously... it was going to be impossible to aim with just a control pad. However these days are different. With todays analog and keyboard/mouse controls, I can't help but wonder what the latest TR game would be like without the auto-aim. I feel that today there shouldn't be an auto-aim feature enabled. It just takes away the challenge and fun of the game in my opinion. Obviously there will be people that will disagree on this. So wouldn't it be great if the developers could put in an option to disable or enable the auto-aiming feature? Are there any plans in the future for this. In this game or future TR projects? Thanks for listening.
    I am one of these people who disagree (and I will firstly point out the 'free aim' in TR:L and TR:A. Did anyone actually use that?)

    I disagree for a good reason: Control. There're other reasons, such as gameplay and game genre as well.
    The reason the control stops from 'free aim' is this: The controls for Tomb Raider: Legend have been re-designed. (For those who haven't played in a while): The player uses the mouse, or the right analog stick, to move the camera, and then using the WASD keys (or the left analog stick), the player moves Lara around. Up moves Lara away from camera (= "forward"), Down moves Lara towards the camera (= "backward"), Left and Lara moves to the left of the screen, right and Lara moves to the right of the screen. As she moves in these directions, so long as she does not have her guns drawn, she will face these directions. This controlling system is relative to the camera, rather than relative to Lara as it was in the earlier Core games. ("Relative to Lara" meaning the forward would make Lara move forward in the direction that was forward to Lara, not the camera, left would make Lara rotate left, etc.)

    And so, by using the mouse/right analog stick to move the camera around Lara, vertically and horizontally, this does not leave room for controlling of 'free aim' without the sacrifice of something important. As demonstrated in TR:L/TR:A, using 'free aim' disallows Lara to move. Were Lara to move while in free aim, the ability to control the camera would be lost. Even enabling 'free aim' with Lara moving in 'Combat Lock-On' mode would have its troubles. 'Combat Lock-On' is confusing enough as it is to the player, without having to add the dynamic of free aiming, although I'll admit I can see a free aim working when the controls are adjusted 'relative to Lara'. It's just a bad idea to mix the 'relative to Lara', and 'relative to camera' controls in a game, it makes for confusion (= poor controls).

  10. #10
    And so, by using the mouse/right analog stick to move the camera around Lara, vertically and horizontally, this does not leave room for controlling of 'free aim' without the sacrifice of something important. As demonstrated in TR:L/TR:A, using 'free aim' disallows Lara to move. Were Lara to move while in free aim, the ability to control the camera would be lost. Even enabling 'free aim' with Lara moving in 'Combat Lock-On' mode would have its troubles. 'Combat Lock-On' is confusing enough as it is to the player, without having to add the dynamic of free aiming, although I'll admit I can see a free aim working when the controls are adjusted 'relative to Lara'. It's just a bad idea to mix the 'relative to Lara', and 'relative to camera' controls in a game, it makes for confusion (= poor controls).
    I am having a bit of trouble deciphering this technical talk in a foreign language. Let me make sure I understand... In Anniversary Wii, which has manual aiming, there are two camera modes: which essentialy are the climb-mode and combat-mode.
    By keep pressing C you'll control the camera like you would with a mouse in the Pc version. By keep pressing Z the camera is locked on an enemy. So not the guns, but the camera, you'll have to do aiming yourself within the screen.
    Is this what you mean with 'Combat Lock-On' or is what you mean when you're talking about 'adjusted controls 'relative to Lara''?
    Obviously you didn't take the Wii version into account in your conclusion. Its combat system works fine to me, and while I don't see how an analoge stick wielding gamer could possibly be quick enough to aim correctly in the high speed of a typical Tomb Raider battle I personaly see no reason why a pc gamer should'nt be able to use this same system.
    However, if the pc version was to get its manual aiming the Wii would lose that special something, and I think a Tr battle is more about dodging the enemy and doing cool jumps over raptors while empying your guns into its head. Thats way cooler than hiding behind a rock and crying in a corner; its not Uncharted...

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Jurre View Post
    I am having a bit of trouble deciphering this technical talk in a foreign language.

    Let me make sure I understand... In Anniversary Wii, which has manual aiming, there are two camera modes: which essentialy are the climb-mode and combat-mode.
    By keep pressing C you'll control the camera like you would with a mouse in the Pc version. By keep pressing Z the camera is locked on an enemy. So not the guns, but the camera, you'll have to do aiming yourself within the screen.
    Is this what you mean with 'Combat Lock-On' or is what you mean when you're talking about 'adjusted controls 'relative to Lara''?

    Obviously you didn't take the Wii version into account in your conclusion. Its combat system works fine to me, and while I don't see how an analoge stick wielding gamer could possibly be quick enough to aim correctly in the high speed of a typical Tomb Raider battle I personaly see no reason why a pc gamer should'nt be able to use this same system.

    However, if the pc version was to get its manual aiming the Wii would lose that special something, and I think a Tr battle is more about dodging the enemy and doing cool jumps over raptors while empying your guns into its head. Thats way cooler than hiding behind a rock and crying in a corner; its not Uncharted...
    You did pretty well.

    Yes, I haven't taken the Wii into account, and I don't think I will for two reasons: I haven't played the Wii version, and the Wii has a unique control system (if my understanding is correct)... so I don't think I will.

    (EDIT: Remember, a picture speaks 1000 words, so here's 5000 words:...)

    This is what I mean by 'Combat Lock On':
    When locked onto an enemy, Lara is looking straight at the enemy, and will 'orbit' the bad guy when moving left/right, so as to stay the same distance away. (This is in 'advanced' combat mode... come to think of it). There is no need for the player to aim because Lara is aiming at the bad guy, no need to freely aim.


    This is what I mean by "TR:L's Free Aim":
    Lara just stands there, and cannot move until she gets out of 'free aim'.


    This is what I mean by "Relative to camera" controls"


    This is what I mean by "relative to Lara" controls:


    This is what I see as 3rd Person Shooter controls:


    *ahem*
    (Please do not quote this post without removing the images)

    The 3rd person shooter style free controls are more/less relative to the player, than they are relative to the camera. It would seem CD have made their engine with the same controls as from TRL/TRA, relative to Lara. Mixing these two vastly different control systems is a recipe for disaster.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by rg_001100 View Post
    Mixing these two vastly different control systems is a recipe for disaster.
    We'll see if its a disaster when we play it.

    and i didnt quote your pictures

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by josh1122 View Post
    We'll see if its a disaster when we play it.

    and i didnt quote your pictures
    I'm not saying TR:U's controls will be a disaster... it's just mixing those two gives potential for it. The combat in TR:L/TR:A can be awkward at times, with the 'lock on' mode aligning the camera behind Lara, it gives the illusion of relative to Lara at the same time as relative to camera...

    (and not quoting pictures that large is just ettiquite... because there were 5 of them I thought it was essential to say, just in case)

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by rg_001100 View Post
    I'm not saying TR:U's controls will be a disaster... it's just mixing those two gives potential for it. The combat in TR:L/TR:A can be awkward at times, with the 'lock on' mode aligning the camera behind Lara, it gives the illusion of relative to Lara at the same time as relative to camera...

    (and not quoting pictures that large is just ettiquite... because there were 5 of them I thought it was essential to say, just in case)
    Yeah I see what your saying, Theres always a potential for disaster. No matter what you play

    I'll just keep as i am and hope for the best. I'd rather be positive going into a games release that im looking forward to rather than look for ''what if'' type things or bad thoughts. Not saying you are so don't take it that way. I'm just talking from my own stand point.

  15. #15
    @ rg_001100:

    Thanks for the effort you've put into this with all the pictures, I think I understand it now completely.

    But don't you think, as I explained in the part about the Wii controls: that if the camera was to lock onto an enemy, following al its movements, the player has the mouse or one of the analogue sticks free to do manual aiming?

    and the Wii has a unique control system (if my understanding is correct)... so I don't think I will.
    Yes, it alows people to do all kinds of movements like chopping motions or whatever, but in most cases such as this its just an different kind of mouse. The Wii remote and the analogue stick on the Nunchuck (the left part of the Wii controller) act as a mouse and a W-A-S-D moving device.

  16. #16
    I would probably think it would be too hard, whilst being mauled by a tiger you need to aim at and dodge it at the same time.
    how come we can't have pictures anymore?

  17. #17
    I was actually going to explain how I feel about 3rd person and 1st person and the relationship that has with manual aiming. I think Rg sums it up fantastically and applause to his pictures.

    I personally find that manual aim doesn't quite work when you are in 3rd person. It's actually quite rarely that I find that it does work.

    When it is in 1st person though, it's perfect for it. I would actually be quite disappointed if in a 1st person game, there was auto targeting. They're two opposites.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Jurre View Post
    Thanks for the effort you've put into this with all the pictures, I think I understand it now completely.

    But don't you think, as I explained in the part about the Wii controls: that if the camera was to lock onto an enemy, following al its movements, the player has the mouse or one of the analogue sticks free to do manual aiming?

    Yes, it alows people to do all kinds of movements like chopping motions or whatever, but in most cases such as this its just an different kind of mouse. The Wii remote and the analogue stick on the Nunchuck (the left part of the Wii controller) act as a mouse and a W-A-S-D moving device.
    I'm not going to try and explain what should happen for the Wii. I don't know, couldn't say because I've never played on one.

    The idea of manual aiming when the camera is locked onto an enemy:
    I wouldn't discredit the idea more for the consoles than I would the PC; I think they'd both have the same ability to do that on screen. (I personally cannot play first person shooters well on a console. I can't play them well on a PC either but I'm far better on PC, the mouse is a precise "input device".

    I do not like the idea of locking the camera onto the bad guy and using the mouse to shoot the bad guy. It's interesting (or annoying) that it could potentially limit the view of the surrounding environment around Lara, however if I were in combat with a Tiger I don't think I'd be concentrating on that so hard either. The reason I don't like it is because it's un-natural in comparison to the rest of the game: (in TR:L/TR:A) When the player moves the mouse/right analog stick (R-AS) the camera moves, with the exception of combat lock on mode. By locking the camera without locking the "aiming reticule", it means that (you'd think) by moving the mouse/R-AS, it would move the "aiming reticule" to shoot the bad guy, while having trained the mind that moving the mouse/R-AS moves the camera.
    I call that an unnatural control.

    With combat lock-on mode, even if the camera cannot be moved when targeting an enemy, the camera may not be allowed to move when locked onto an enemy, but it sits behind Lara ("locked on") and moves with Lara. When there is no enemy the camera (& Lara) can be turned around by using the mouse/R-AS.

    A second reason why I don't like the sound of the Wii controls is it sounds like a more arcade style of shooting, more than a next gen game. Have you ever played one of those arcade games that uses a light-gun, where the player wanders through with a mind of his own and you just shoot the targets? (moving through to the next room when you've shot the targets) (an example of this would be Time Crisis)... This control method for shooting targets just seems like an arcade-style diversion for shooting targets. It works for the Wii (because motion sensing is cool ), but it just seems immature for the PC, and consoles.
    Arcade diversions for passing through gameplay doesn't work, an example would be the biking sequences of TR:L. In themselves, they could be fun (to some people), but it doesn't reflect the gameplay of what TR should be (or the gameplay in the rest of the game).

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Willard View Post
    I was actually going to explain how I feel about 3rd person and 1st person and the relationship that has with manual aiming. I think Rg sums it up fantastically and applause to his pictures.
    Thanks . (I'm not sure which version of the '3rd person shooter' you're seeing, but my internet cache is still showing me the one with left and right strafing swapped around the wrong way I don't know what I was thinking when I drew it). I also get the feeling I'll be wanting to use these images again at some point (maybe with a few extra images added onto the collection...), this concept of controls gets me excited/passionate, for some reason.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by rg_001100 View Post
    I'm not going to try and explain what should happen for the Wii. I don't know, couldn't say because I've never played on one.
    Thats alright, but since you're discussing free aiming in Tr games and this being a feature in Anniversary Wii, one might say that your conclusions are incomplete without having experienced that system.
    The idea of manual aiming when the camera is locked onto an enemy:
    I wouldn't discredit the idea more for the consoles than I would the PC; I think they'd both have the same ability to do that on screen. (I personally cannot play first person shooters well on a console. I can't play them well on a PC either but I'm far better on PC, the mouse is a precise "input device".

    I do not like the idea of locking the camera onto the bad guy and using the mouse to shoot the bad guy. It's interesting (or annoying) that it could potentially limit the view of the surrounding environment around Lara, however if I were in combat with a Tiger I don't think I'd be concentrating on that so hard either. The reason I don't like it is because it's un-natural in comparison to the rest of the game: (in TR:L/TR:A) When the player moves the mouse/right analog stick (R-AS) the camera moves, with the exception of combat lock on mode. By locking the camera without locking the "aiming reticule", it means that (you'd think) by moving the mouse/R-AS, it would move the "aiming reticule" to shoot the bad guy, while having trained the mind that moving the mouse/R-AS moves the camera.
    I call that an unnatural control.
    You got a point here. The big difference with the Wii version is that you got a mouse cursor there all the time -in the shape of a blue orb or a little scion-, to point where she has to shoot. I forgot to mention this in my previous post: you'll controll the camera only when pressing C, and by pressing Z the camera locks onto the enemy. Without pressing anything at all you'll just move the crosshear around.
    So with controlling the camera not being given granted your mind is not used to think so in the Wii version of Anniversary.
    Again, I think this should be workable on pc, but all this messing up with the controls is not what we want,... at least not I... (but then again: I am only discussing the possiblity)

    A second reason why I don't like the sound of the Wii controls is it sounds like a more arcade style of shooting, more than a next gen game. Have you ever played one of those arcade games that uses a light-gun, where the player wanders through with a mind of his own and you just shoot the targets? (moving through to the next room when you've shot the targets) (an example of this would be Time Crisis)... This control method for shooting targets just seems like an arcade-style diversion for shooting targets. It works for the Wii (because motion sensing is cool ), but it just seems immature for the PC, and consoles.
    Arcade diversions for passing through gameplay doesn't work, an example would be the biking sequences of TR:L. In themselves, they could be fun (to some people), but it doesn't reflect the gameplay of what TR should be (or the gameplay in the rest of the game).
    Arcade... I find that a difficult word to define. All I can say is the battles in the Wii version seemed to me to be a much more complicated process than elsewere. As 1q2q3q4q5q said: you'll have to split your attention between aiming and dodging, certanly so when facing multible enemies. I myself like that extra challenge since I consider the fights to be the weakest part of Anniversary. Its also handy when I want to hit my enemies and lower their health one by one. You know you hit a raptor with the shotgun: he falls on the floor, you'll then hit the one that stands next to him and you'll be ready when the first one charges. It also feels much more like you're fighting, I think that is what aolish means: the feeling that you're in a battle as in Gears of War is pretty much absent in a typical -symplistic- Anniversary battle... However I do hope that the melee combat and the adrenaline jump and whatever they come up with in Underworld is enough to make up for that: because in the end I don't consider manual aiming a good option outside the Wii version...

    Oh, by the way; I enjoyed the biker chases enourmously: fast action and especially cool when the burning cars began to fly around. The "Hell Yeah!" feeling.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Jurre View Post
    Thats alright, but since you're discussing free aiming in Tr games and this being a feature in Anniversary Wii, one might say that your conclusions are incomplete without having experienced that system.
    True; but to consider the Wii an identical [type of] platform to the PS3 or Xbox360 wouldn't make for a great Wii game. PS3/Xbox360 both have a 'typical' controller, and (slight) diffirences between each other. The Wii is special with its controls, and so designing games for the Wii is a more specialised process than for PS3/Xbox/PC, because of the added dimensions of coming up with a good control scheme..

    Quote Originally Posted by Jurre View Post
    Arcade... I find that a difficult word to define. All I can say is the battles in the Wii version seemed to me to be a much more complicated process than elsewere. As 1q2q3q4q5q said: you'll have to split your attention between aiming and dodging, certanly so when facing multible enemies. I myself like that extra challenge since I consider the fights to be the weakest part of Anniversary. Its also handy when I want to hit my enemies and lower their health one by one. You know you hit a raptor with the shotgun: he falls on the floor, you'll then hit the one that stands next to him and you'll be ready when the first one charges.

    It also feels much more like you're fighting, I think that is what aolish means: the feeling that you're in a battle as in Gears of War is pretty much absent in a typical -symplistic- Anniversary battle... However I do hope that the melee combat and the adrenaline jump and whatever they come up with in Underworld is enough to make up for that: because in the end I don't consider manual aiming a good option outside the Wii version...
    I would define "arcade" (at least in this context) something along the lines of "repetitive and near pointless gameplay [that involves shooting enemies in 'waves']". Shooting enemies in 'free aim' is just unnecessary for Tomb Raider. It's not a combat game, and so aiming isn't required for the gameplay. Combat technique is, however...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jurre View Post
    Oh, by the way; I enjoyed the biker chases enourmously: fast action and especially cool when the burning cars began to fly around. The "Hell Yeah!" feeling.
    It's just not TR. It's cool enough, but doesn't need to be put in. It seems like it was an excuse to waste a few minutes of gameplay and mash through a whole bunch of enemies, and get to some point further away. So long as you get healthpacks, don't crash, and spam the shoot button when there were enemies about, you could complete the section easily enough. I just think it was too 'arcade'.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by rg_001100 View Post
    Shooting enemies in 'free aim' is just unnecessary for Tomb Raider. It's not a combat game, and so aiming isn't required for the gameplay. Combat technique is, however...
    Combat is definitely a part of it, but of course puzzle solving and climbing are the bigger parts. I think therefore this should say something about the quantity of combat needed: not about the way it is executed. In the case of Anniversary for pc I think it was way to simplistic and poorly executed. -A good combat system should allow a skilled player to be able to get out of a situation unharmed -personal view-: but if you manage to kill 3 wolves without a scratch it is more luck than anything. The game compensates for that by making the combat easy but that shouldn't be the way. If the combat doesn't work well I think they might as well have skipped it altogether because when you do it you're gonna have to do it good or not.-
    Free aiming does not solve that problem but at least you can now blame it on the fact that you'll have to split your attention and it definitely makes it less simplistic. What do you mean with 'combat technique'?

    It's just not TR.
    Well I think its interesting.......

    It's cool enough,
    ...... and that is why.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Jurre View Post
    Combat is definitely a part of it, but of course puzzle solving and climbing are the bigger parts. I think therefore this should say something about the quantity of combat needed: not about the way it is executed. In the case of Anniversary for pc I think it was way to simplistic and poorly executed. -A good combat system should allow a skilled player to be able to get out of a situation unharmed -personal view-: but if you manage to kill 3 wolves without a scratch it is more luck than anything. The game compensates for that by making the combat easy but that shouldn't be the way. If the combat doesn't work well I think they might as well have skipped it altogether because when you do it you're gonna have to do it good or not.-
    Free aiming does not solve that problem but at least you can now blame it on the fact that you'll have to split your attention and it definitely makes it less simplistic. What do you mean with 'combat technique'?
    I think CD's combat would be over complex rather than over simple. With (FP/3P)Shooter games, the player has a gun and he shoots bad guys, and that covers most of it (simplified).
    In the first 5 Tomb Raider games, combat on land was pretty simple. You'd have the dual pistols with infinite ammo, along with any more powerful weapons you'd found. Lara would automatically aim at bad (and good) guys, and she would shoot at the targeted player. She could perform many of her moves with her guns drawn (of which I found jumping/rolling to be the most useful combination). There would occasionally be boss fights with tougher enemies than the regular guys. I think that covers most (if not all) of the combat control in the first 5 Tomb Raider games, in detail.

    TR:A has Adreniline Dodge on top of a similar explaination for TR:A as was given for the first 5 (except jump/roll has gone..). Adreniline dodge could be described in it least as many words... I think it complicates things enough.
    I think the gameplay is balanced by the increased balance brought about by the heavier weapons... As for skill winning through a fight spotlessly (with default pistols)... I will admit I am not skilled enough to do this, but I wouldn't put it as impossible... perhaps they could lower the skill required to get through with pistols (and limit the amount of "special" ammo they put).
    I think combat is a necessary part of TR. I think, because of CD's apparent intention to widen the market audience, the action is layed on a bit thick (not so bad thanks to "player tailoring"). But I don't think combat should be stripped from TR games.

    (& I won't comment on that 2nd part... although I'll ask whether you were talking about the bikes? not to say against your opinion... it just might not be obvious for anyone else reading...)

  23. #23
    I don't know how familiar you are with 1P/3P shooters but over the time these games have come up with many new features. A game like Crysis would perhaps be hopelessly complex for someone who is used to play ten year old Duke Nukem games or whatever, but people want those things that renew the gameplay feeling.... Everywhere exept in Tomb Raider of course: because here if something has'nt been done before its not Tomb Raider.........

    Well don't get me wrong: I don't mean that complicated gameplay is good: but it has to work well and it is nice when players are given many different tools and ways to do the job. I mean with so much depth being pulled into the puzzles and obstacle courses a shallow combat gameplay doesn't fit in well.

    So far, I think Legend has the best combat possibilities, untill Underworld I suppose. Being able to do melee combat -including the self-activated bullettime- makes a fundamental difference, because instead of having to fight defensively you can take on the offensive. These troubles I had in Anniversary, for instance: being bitten by a one wolf while I was getting ready for the charge of the other one, or by being knocked into the corner by a gorilla in a space far too small to able to dodge, it would not have happend if I was able to jump on its head and start the bullettime myself, or kick the attacker back.
    The A-Dodge from Anniversary is still a great system against bosses, single enemies and slow moving enemies in a big open space, such as the raptors. But against fast movers in numbers such as wolves and lions I think it is pretty much unavoidable that some times you'll get hit by one while being in the process of awaiting the other one's charge and end up getting hurt by both, which I think is just bad design: no player can avoid that. Sometimes there also is a glitch which makes the dodge fail, so in the end I think I can conclude that the combat system in Anniversary could have used some extra attention to make it more workable.
    I am very glad that Underworld has the offensive possibilities again, and allows me to take the fight to them, instead of keep dodging and hoping everything is gonna be alright....

    (& I won't comment on that 2nd part... although I'll ask whether you were talking about the bikes? not to say against your opinion... it just might not be obvious for anyone else reading...)
    About the bike chases yes....

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by aolish View Post
    hello guys! I must say the new tomb raider game looks really really good. I simply can't wait for it!!! I'm not sure if i'm the only person thinking this... so feel free if anyone else feels the same way.

    Its about the auto-aim feature that has been present since the very first TR game. Now I understand that the auto-aim feature was really needed back in early days. Obviously... it was going to be impossible to aim with just a control pad. However these days are different. With todays analog and keyboard/mouse controls, I can't help but wonder what the latest TR game would be like without the auto-aim. I feel that today there shouldn't be an auto-aim feature enabled. It just takes away the challenge and fun of the game in my opinion. Obviously there will be people that will disagree on this. So wouldn't it be great if the developers could put in an option to disable or enable the auto-aiming feature? Are there any plans in the future for this. In this game or future TR projects? Thanks for listening.
    lol. yes. there is going to be an option. and lol. i am sooo sorry but i sort of laughed when i read thanks for listening. what are we listening to, the hum of the computer or laptop. we are reading lol. but good point. i dont mean to be offensive in anyway. hope you understand!
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  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Jurre View Post
    But against fast movers in numbers such as wolves and lions I think it is pretty much unavoidable that some times you'll get hit by one while being in the process of awaiting the other one's charge and end up getting hurt by both, which I think is just bad design: no player can avoid that. Sometimes there also is a glitch which makes the dodge fail, so in the end I think I can conclude that the combat system in Anniversary could have used some extra attention to make it more workable.
    I am very glad that Underworld has the offensive possibilities again, and allows me to take the fight to them, instead of keep dodging and hoping everything is gonna be alright....

    About the bike chases yes....
    yes, this happened to me also. its annoying waiting for a lion to charge then get hit by another or any predator. also, in adrenaline dodge, every enemy except, wolves, lions and panthers, you can press forward and lara flips over the top of the instead, but with lions panthers and wolves they are too quick and you get hurt anyway even when you time yourself correctly... soooo annoying. legend controls are good. anniversary annoyed me when you tumbled and couldn't go back into forwards hanstands after backwards. but in legend you could tumble forever which is really fun until you find a wall infront or fall of the edge of a cliff... lol. i cant play tr until my xbox is set off for fixing...
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