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Thread: An Interesting Case Study

  1. #1
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    Exclamation An Interesting Case Study

    Some more senior members may recall the case of wrongly convicted Lindy Chamberlain back in the 70's - a devoted mother who's two month-old baby, Azaria was abducted from a tent near Ayers Rock, Australia, by a Dingo.

    Full story: http://www.lindychamberlain.com/content/story

    For those with no inclination to read it, in a nutshell, Lindy was falsely accused and imprisoned for murdering her daughter and her husband was charged as an accessory until a few years later when baby Azaria's matinee jacket was miraculously discovered near to a Dingo's lair. The story was made into a successful film starring Sam Neill and Meryl Streep and entitled "A Cry in the Dark"

    The reason I bring this up now is that I read an article in the Daily Mail about Lindy's support for The British McCann family who have never yet established just where their daughter is. Both doctors, the McCann parents holidayed in Portugal but negligently left their children unattended in an apartment complex so they could dine in a nearby eaterie.

    Both parents have been vilified by the media and as unkind as it sounds, I can see why since there was a perfectly adequate babysitting service in said complex but the McCanns felt that "checking back every twenty minutes" was a suitable alternative. Not suitable enough so it seems...

    Why Lindy feels the need to support this couple is frankly beyond my comprehension. When baby Azaria was taken in the jaws of a Dingo, Lindy was feet away from the tent and among other trusted adults. Dingos had in fact been circulating that evening and tourists were chucking food scraps. The whole country pointed the finger at Lindy and one reason was because until then, nobody imagined that a Dingo could carry a two-month old baby in it's jaws.

    This was an unfortunate and shocking tragedy but what the McCann couple did was frankly, disturbing. Had they not wanted to include their children in their holiday then they should surely have left them at home in the care of a Grandparent.

    You never abandon your children not only for 5 minutes and NEVER in a foreign country. I'm just so shocked that Lindy would in some [alleged] way, relate her case to theirs. It's a wholly different story.
    Everyone is entitled to my opinion.

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    Sorry Lo, this is a tragic thing but I can't help thinking of this-

    (I hope you don't take offense, I just can't resist making light of seriousness )
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    I completely agree, Lo. I think they were stupid and irresponsible. If they wanted time alone, they should have used the babysitting service or left them at home with relatives.

    I would have thought considering after everything that happened to her and her husband, despite the fact they were right next to their baby, that they would be angry at someone like the McCanns for being so irresponsible. I know I would be in her position.

    I'm not saying it's completely their fault she was abducted as the blame lies mainly with whatever sicko did it, but they should have been more responsible for their children. This is a dangerous world where sickos and murderers etc live and they should have known better rather than leaving those defenceless children alone while they indulged themselves.
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  4. #4
    forgive me for not being australian/european, but what's a dingo?
    No one ever pays me in gum......

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    THE DINGO ATE YOUR BABY!
    It's a sort of wild dog-
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dingo

    BTW Lo, did you see the movie version? It's sort of a true crime movie.
    I'm not a huge Meryl Streep fan but Sam Neill rules.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel View Post
    forgive me for not being australian/european, but what's a dingo?
    SWAN DIVE! Into the best night of your life.

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    What a cute animal.
    I'd be apathetic if I weren't so lethargic-Peter Griffin

  8. #8
    are they vicious? like, would they attack humans on sight?
    No one ever pays me in gum......

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel View Post
    are they vicious? like, would they attack humans on sight?
    I don't know if Id call them vicious (although admittedly I don't know much about their behavior or rather theres a reported history of Dingo attacks on people but I haven't really ever heard of any myself, maybe someone from Australia or with more insight on them can clarify that) but they apparently are capable of taking small children according to the story. I mean these are wild animals after all and they will do whats necessary to survive, if their hungry and have no other choice, who knows what they might do.

    Moral of that story, keep an eye on your children and keep them out of harms way, especially if there are wild animals about..
    SWAN DIVE! Into the best night of your life.

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    Hell, dogs are nice and cute but a pack of wild dogs is extremely dangerous!
    Everyone thinks wolves are so cute but it's not for no reason they have such an evil name in the past.
    Look at how cute-

    Or, is this cute?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BLOWHARD View Post
    THE DINGO ATE YOUR BABY!
    It's a sort of wild dog-
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dingo

    BTW Lo, did you see the movie version? It's sort of a true crime movie.
    I'm not a huge Meryl Streep fan but Sam Neill rules.
    Yes, I own it on DVD (and LOL at your clip, no offence taken)

    Edit: yes, all animals are wild, even "domesticated" animals. Animals by and large CHOOSE to tow the line if they are both aware of and respect their place in the pack (albeit a human pack). Dogs make decisions based on what benefits them the most. That's why the bulk of all dog training revolves around a system of food rewards and indirect punishment.

    By indirect I mean that the dog dislikes an action of yours but doesn't associate it with you, he associates the unpleasant experience with his own actions. For example. If a dog jumps up all over you to greet you, this is classic dominant behaviour. If you throw a bunch of noisy keys down on the floor beside the dog the moment he comes into contact with you, he will find this unpleasant. You may encourage the dog to jump up a second time and he probably will. Once the action is repeated, he generally won't jump up a fourth time. He doesn't see this as you punishing him because you have not struck nor berated the animal. He simply associates his jumping up with a bad, unsettling consequence and ceases to persue this behaviour
    Everyone is entitled to my opinion.

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    Arrow

    Quote Originally Posted by KoolKat View Post
    I completely agree, Lo. I think they were stupid and irresponsible. If they wanted time alone, they should have used the babysitting service or left them at home with relatives.

    I would have thought considering after everything that happened to her and her husband, despite the fact they were right next to their baby, that they would be angry at someone like the McCanns for being so irresponsible. I know I would be in her position.

    I'm not saying it's completely their fault she was abducted as the blame lies mainly with whatever sicko did it, but they should have been more responsible for their children. This is a dangerous world where sickos and murderers etc live and they should have known better rather than leaving those defenceless children alone while they indulged themselves.
    I agree with every sentiment and opinion you offered, Kat.

    It was alleged that the fee was too high for the babysitting service (it equated to approximately £10ph it was reported). OK, that is quite a sum if you are a young couple who want to party for six hours and can't afford it but if that were the case (which it obviously wasn't!), you don't party or you don't go on holiday period.

    The McCanns were affluent, make no mistake. But arguably they were too tight to pay - this was what was alleged, certainly, at that time. Obviously, one can't take media reporting as Gospel but either way, they acted irresponsibly and selfishly on every conceivable level.

    The crux of the issue at hand is this. How long does it take to abduct a child? How long does it take to abduct a child who's parents are being monitored? My guess is that if she was abducted, the abductor was watching their every move and was readily able to establish a pattern, break in through the blinds to the apartment and snatch the child within or even under five minutes. In another fifteen minutes, alleged abductor could be ten mile away in any direction

    It's all very well being sorry after the event but I never heard much of that at the time. All I heard was how they complained about being hounded by the press. I've to date never heard one apology unless I was on the wrong channel They are allegedly sorry - but for their loss and NOT their blatant ignorance and neglect.

    Sickening!
    Everyone is entitled to my opinion.

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    It shocked me too, as at the time they seemed more about being angry about what had happened and at the questions asked of them than being sorry and heartbroken at the loss of their daughter.

    Most parents would blamed themselves a thousand times over for a mistake like this and been utterly distraught, but they seemed more interested in proving their own innocence.

    If they really couldn't afford the babysitting charge, they should not have left them. If the prices are correct, they could have still had a nice couple of hours together for an extra 20quid which is nothing really to ensure the safety of the children. I would have thought though that their precious meal would have equalled to roughly the same amount or more anyway.

    They're absolutely shocking, they really are.
    Whit’s fur ye’ll no go by ye.

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    I agree, Kat. I can't even look at them without feeling anger....
    Everyone is entitled to my opinion.

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    They lost their daughter. Isn't that punishment enough?
    I'd be apathetic if I weren't so lethargic-Peter Griffin

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    Quote Originally Posted by dumah's wraith View Post
    They lost their daughter. Isn't that punishment enough?
    No, not really. I am no vigilante but this was not a case of leaving the milk out to go sour. This was not an error of judgement either. This was a clear case of selfishness personified and I have no sympathy for this couple. That may sound harsh coming from a compassionate person such as I like to think I am but hey ho, sue me...
    Everyone is entitled to my opinion.

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    Smile

    Sorry for the double-posting here but I just wish to add something further and bring the topic back into the fold here.

    Naturally, it is devastating when one loses a child but as much as I am a very charitable soul, I just can't find it in myself to justify the actions of this couple, Dumah's.

    Examining the known facts can only lead to one sensible conclusion - negligence of the highest order. There is no skirting around this issue I'm afraid.

    Do you recall how vulnerable you were as a child? My parents were never selfish in this regard and if I awoke in a strange hotel, my parents were right there to comfort me and this only happened when we were moving country due to my father's military career and very infrequently.

    Twenty or so minutes is simply immeasurable. If this child awoke moments after her parent checked on her, she would have felt abandoned. She cries "Mummy" and there is nobody there and she is in a strange, unfamiliar room. But what presumably happened was that she was awoken by a stranger who proceeded to abduct her and goodness only knows what fait awaited her.

    You speak as though the parents have suffered but you neglect to mention the child.

    No parent should ever leave their vulnerable children alone. Not even for a nano second.

    Sorry to sound harsh but surely I speak the truth and sense here?
    Everyone is entitled to my opinion.

  18. #18
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    I agree with Lo, Dumah's Wraith.

    Imagine a child was seriously ill, but the parents decided that medicene would be too expensive for that child and they ignored it and carried on what they were doing. If that child dies, the parents would be charged with neglect, no matter how much they actually loved their child, because failing to care for a dependant is just that: neglect.

    Sadly, it's the same principle with the McCanns. They decided to leave their children in a room all alone in a foreign country while they selfishly went away to enjoy themselves. If they couldn't afford the babysitting service, they should not have left them there, simple as.

    I'm not questioning whether they actually loved Madeleine or not, only they will know that.
    But I don't believe they deserve much sympathy, because one of the first duties of being a parent is keeping your children safe, which they didn't do. They neglected her and her siblings so they could enjoy themselves and as a result a little girl is missing, possibly dead.

    I think the main issue people have with them is that they don't seem all that sorry for what they did. Most parents would blame themselves whether or not they were actually at fault because they'd always realise the mistakes or see scenarios where they could have protected their children, whereas these two who were definetely at fault because of their selfishness and carelessness, seem intent on trying to say how they weren't to blame.
    Whit’s fur ye’ll no go by ye.

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    It was neglect, I agree, but the McCanns are probably twice as aware of that than anyone else. I know If I did that and lost a family member I'd probably never recover. A disappearance in the family is like a death, except without the closure of actually knowing what happened.

    Unless of course they engineered her disappearance themselves: Weren't they briefly charged with her murder before the case fell through?
    I'd be apathetic if I weren't so lethargic-Peter Griffin

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    Indeed they were questioned and the Portugese police wanted to follow up on the possibility it was them, but they were battered down on the matter because it seems that our police and their police don't like working together.

    As I said, I understand most parents would probably feel the way you're describing, but they haven't once mentioned how sorry they were for what they did or how worried they are.

    They've been more bothered about proving their own innocence, arguing with police for getting things wrong and catching someone than the fact their daughter could be dead or goodness knows where. The only times I've seen the mother cry is when people have questioned them.

    I could be very wrong, in which case I really do feel sorry for them but it all just doesn't seem right to me.
    I'd be in pieces if that were my child and would never forgive myself for being so stupid.
    Whit’s fur ye’ll no go by ye.

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    Arrow

    Sorry to say but also, as KoolKat suggested, the Portugese and British police authorities probably don't like co-operating with one another. This is not new for it has happened many times within the boundaries of even one country. So you can imagine why the Portugese, an arguably less equipped Police authority, would want to "do business" with the British.

    Information sharing has for many years been an issue since the lack of it has sometimes allowed killers to go from state to state or county to county, moving freely between jurasdictions without detection because Police authorities (particularly in notorious cases), have become territorial and fiercely protective of their data files.

    This has been a problem - the catching of a criminal was seemingly becoming far less of a priority than a singular Police jurasdiction wanting to retain their information in the hope of being congratulated for solving a crime and catching the perportrator.

    I believe new laws were passed regarding data-sharing some time ago by a higher authority. I don't have any bulletins at this precise second but I know it was being discussed because ultimately, the victim(s) and the potential future victims must take priority. This MUST be a monumentally joint an co-oberated effort, not some game that authorities play in order to be the victors of arresting a known criminal.
    Everyone is entitled to my opinion.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lo View Post
    This has been a problem - the catching of a criminal was seemingly becoming far less of a priority than a singular Police jurasdiction wanting to retain their information in the hope of being congratulated for solving a crime and catching the perportrator.
    Sadly you're so right. They are so desperate to look good for being the ones to solve a case that they'd rather work alone and lose a criminal than work together and catch one.
    Whit’s fur ye’ll no go by ye.

  23. #23
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    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by N-lyger View Post
    If you're gonna advertise something, why do it in a thread like this? I'm pretty sure none of us play Runescape.
    Sorry but you've lost me

    Who is advertising what? More to the point, whom are you addressing? This is the Community Chat board where off-topic threads can be discussed and that's precisely what is being upheld.

    I have no idea what Runescape is as a [presumable] game. This is a discussion about real life. Switch the news on once in a while instead of the console and you might be able to add a relevant opinion
    Everyone is entitled to my opinion.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Lo View Post
    Sorry but you've lost me

    Who is advertising what? More to the point, whom are you addressing? This is the Community Chat board where off-topic threads can be discussed and that's precisely what is being upheld.

    I have no idea what Runescape is as a [presumable] game. This is a discussion about real life. Switch the news on once in a while instead of the console and you might be able to add a relevant opinion
    Oh, looks like it's been deleted. There was a post advertising a website that sells currency for that game. It's gone though, now. Sorry.
    Hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobia- Fear of long words.
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    Big Grin

    Quote Originally Posted by N-lyger View Post
    Oh, looks like it's been deleted. There was a post advertising a website that sells currency for that game. It's gone though, now. Sorry.
    Oh LOL

    In that case I also apologise. Crossed wires there me finks hehe!
    Everyone is entitled to my opinion.

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