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IZIEIRIOI
15th Jul 2009, 05:21
Sorry that this isn't directly related to the game but I was wondering.
I know batman doesn't kill, but surely that would mean that it would be an awesome story if he did kill someone.
It could be by mistake, or he just goes too far (like he almost does in Hush).
Anyway, I figured since there's so many people here who know a lot about batman, I'd ask.
I've not read a lot of batman comics, still buying some of them that were recommended on this site (I think).

kadashi666
15th Jul 2009, 05:24
no hes hasn't killed anyone. hes had causalities in battle, and hes indirectly been responsible for the situation that leads to someones death, but he has never deliberately killed someone in a fight. in fact, thats one of the reasons why Gorden never sent the police squad on him, because he was working for justice, not for vengeance.

IZIEIRIOI
15th Jul 2009, 05:29
OK, thanks.
So someone should make a story where batman does kill someone but has to live with what he's done, and villains would be taunting him, saying that he's as bad as one of them or something.
It would probably have to be non canon but it still could be pretty weird.

kadashi666
15th Jul 2009, 05:35
OK, thanks.
So someone should make a story where batman does kill someone but has to live with what he's done, and villains would be taunting him, saying that he's as bad as one of them or something.
It would probably have to be non canon but it still could be pretty weird.

not positive about this but i cant imagine that someone hasn't all ready done a comic about that that was non-canon. in a non-canon continuity i think batman did kill some people in all star batman and robin, but again that's not batman as we know him, that was a frank miller interpretation of what batman COULD be.

:scratch: now i kinda of want to see if there was a comic like that, a little predictable but interesting none the less.

Why So Serious ?
15th Jul 2009, 05:36
OK, thanks.
So someone should make a story where batman does kill someone but has to live with what he's done, and villains would be taunting him, saying that he's as bad as one of them or something.
It would probably have to be non canon but it still could be pretty weird.

nah i wouldn't like that idea maybe if Batman was Jason Todd then that would be a different story

IZIEIRIOI
15th Jul 2009, 05:39
Yeah, I guess that makes sense.
I'd just like to see what would happen.

Darkwing_Duck
15th Jul 2009, 06:15
Well he killed Darkseid and used a gun to do so.

Kraken890
15th Jul 2009, 06:25
No, but he's come really close especially with you know who. But he won't save a villain if it depends on his life or any others. (I.E. Batman Begins, Hush etc)

thedarknight2016
15th Jul 2009, 06:58
Well he killed Darkseid and used a gun to do so.

just about to bring that up

CaptainMcMulla
15th Jul 2009, 07:00
Ive never seen batman kill. so he hasnt killed anyone in my eyes.

angleslam99
15th Jul 2009, 07:10
Ra's Al Ghul, Two Face

SilentGuardian
15th Jul 2009, 07:21
He shot Darkseid in Final Crisis.

Void.
15th Jul 2009, 07:28
In his first few golden age stories, Batman usee a gun and killed thugs. But they changed pretty fast to the anti gun Batman we know today.

angleslam99
15th Jul 2009, 07:57
In his first few golden age stories, Batman usee a gun and killed thugs. But they changed pretty fast to the anti gun Batman we know today.

Except for the fact that his vehicles are equipped with machine guns and missile launchers you mean?

Ryuuie
15th Jul 2009, 10:59
Void's right, Batman has killed people in his Golden Age stories. As has Superman.

But this all changed when Whitney Ellsworth became the new editor barring Batman and Superman from killing people.

Drazar
15th Jul 2009, 11:15
First of all Batman didn't murder Darkseid, he shot him, meaning he broke his vow on guns. Darkseid didn't die from the gunshot but it made it easier for the others to finish him.

Also Angelslam there is a big difference between how Batman in the movie works and an actual murder. Ras' al ghul can/would/did/has/ survived the train wreck with his skills in acrobatics, also Batman practically did the same thing to Hush and that story was written by Paul Dini who has been said to be such a Batman expert after all.

Two-Face also didn't get murdered by Batman, as the intention was to save a little boy. :) Batman has a vow againts murders and whatnot, it doesn't ofcourse effect robots even tho comic world has robots with a human-alike AI with emotions and everything.

Nightwing
15th Jul 2009, 11:32
In my opinion there's two conflicting points which would need to be reconciled in order to make any story in which Batman kills. There is the fact that as fans... majority of fans don't want him to kill and don't want him to have to overstep that line because it's a massive defining factor in what makes him such a superior hero. On the other hand you have the fact that at the end of the day, Batman is a pragmatist above all else. He prepares for all situations regardless of how the rest of us would consider them unlikely. He breaks his vow on guns repeatedly for learning and training purposes and in (what seems to have become famous in this thread) final crisis #6 with Darkseid.

So in my humble opinion, Batman would kill, but you'd have to find an exceptionally closed off scenario which leaves him no choice. Where the best thing left to do is to take a life. There are very few such situations available in existance... but they do exist.

From a personal point of view though, I'd rather not see such a comic made. This is because I sit with the many fans who think that Batman's refusal to kill is such a big part of what makes him the hero instead of just another masked vigilante.
(Yeah, I've skipped out the earlier Batman who ran around with guns killing... because that's not how we see the Dark Knight today.)

batman4747
15th Jul 2009, 11:52
In the old Batman movie 1989 he killed that thug by puling him off the bell tower.

door noob
15th Jul 2009, 12:05
During the begining of his comic book career, then the writers changed his way's.

Drazar
15th Jul 2009, 12:05
In the old Batman movie 1989 he killed that thug by puling him off the bell tower.

Not to mention the thugs at ace chemical factory and so forth. He didn't kill everyone as he needed atleast _one_ person alive to spread the fear. Yet Gotham city found him as a great hero even tho he murdered, destroyed a chemical factory (yeah, talk about normal people losing job opportunies) and whatnot, but hey its all about saving Gotham from the more crazier loonies! ^____________________________^

LoboUDL
15th Jul 2009, 12:53
I didn't see anything after the issue where Batman shot Darkseid...but from reading interviews with Morrison I thought Batman shot and killed Darkseid...not weakened him for the others. Didn't he shoot him with something called a "God killing bullet" or something like that?

Otherwise, no. He hasn't killed anyone. **** Grayson has. Maybe even two. I'm kind of hazy on that. Pretty sure he killed Blockbuster though.

And in Batman Returns he took a bomb from a guy and put it on him and pushed him down a hole. The big guy. :D

Drazar
15th Jul 2009, 12:58
The bullet was Darkseid's bullet that killed a god, hence the name. The whole earth was getting destroyed by Darkseid's mere presense and he had to be stopped. So Batman decided to break his promise regarding guns at the cost of his own life, living thru the omega sanction but somehow managing to escape it and manifest at the beginning of time. =p

Gary_Bailey
15th Jul 2009, 13:11
he also used a thug's gun right before he quit in Batman Beyond right?

I haven't seen it but did he kill that thug?

kadashi666
15th Jul 2009, 13:11
Not to mention the thugs at ace chemical factory and so forth. He didn't kill everyone as he needed atleast _one_ person alive to spread the fear. Yet Gotham city found him as a great hero even tho he murdered, destroyed a chemical factory (yeah, talk about normal people losing job opportunies) and whatnot, but hey its all about saving Gotham from the more crazier loonies! ^____________________________^

.....yeah...michael keaton's batman was totaly insane. i have to say that my favorite michael keaton moment is in batman returns when he sticks the dynomite down the circus thugs pants and throws him in a man hole, most bizare batman move ever.

VXR
15th Jul 2009, 13:21
Batman killed ' Joel Schumacher's' career.

:rasp:

LoboUDL
15th Jul 2009, 13:21
The bullet was Darkseid's bullet that killed a god, hence the name. The whole earth was getting destroyed by Darkseid's mere presense and he had to be stopped. So Batman decided to break his promise regarding guns at the cost of his own life, living thru the omega sanction but somehow managing to escape it and manifest at the beginning of time. =p

I've never been a huge Darkseid person...the extent of my knowledge about him is he ruled Warworld, was grey with a blue costume...created by Jack Kirby...and shot laserbeams from his eyes. From reading the interview with Morrison, he said he loved the trippy stuff about 60's and 70's comics....but ok anywho, I'll get right to it. I didn't know the omega sanction doesn't kill anyone that it hits...technically. It sends them to another life and each time they die in each progressing life it gets worse. We maybe be seeing some of Bruce Waynes other lives in the What happened to the caped crusader storyline. Morrison is all kinds of jacking around with his stories and mixing stuff up...he loves that. I believe the interview I saw with him was on Wizards's website. If you go there and search for Morrison and Batman it'll probably come up with the interview. Also, it could've been on IGN.com. Either one of those sites. But it's pretty much a trap. And Batman always escapes traps. ;>

darrinwright
15th Jul 2009, 14:57
Batman in the Tim Burton movies killed a bunch of times. (1) Joker, in the first movie. (2) that black Joker thug near the top of the cathedral (Bats tossed him down the bell tower). (3) Fat clown in Batman Returns (strapped dynamite to him, sent him down a manhole). (4) Penguin in Batman Returns (caused him to fall to his death).

Also, in the Schumacher films: (1) Two-Face. Threw a bunch of coins at him, causing him to fall to his death.

In Batman Begins, Bat-Bale doesn't kill anyone, but neglects to save them, therefore leading to their deaths (as in Ra's Al Ghul).

metalhead_dave
15th Jul 2009, 15:14
Batman in the Tim Burton movies killed a bunch of times. (1) Joker, in the first movie. (2) that black Joker thug near the top of the cathedral (Bats tossed him down the bell tower). (3) Fat clown in Batman Returns (strapped dynamite to him, sent him down a manhole). (4) Penguin in Batman Returns (caused him to fall to his death).

Also, in the Schumacher films: (1) Two-Face. Threw a bunch of coins at him, causing him to fall to his death.

In Batman Begins, Batman doesn't kill anyone, but neglects to save them, therefore leading to their deaths (as in Ra's Al Ghul).

1. Fixed it for you.

2. I honestly wouldn't put the Joker on Batman's death list in 89. Batman tied Joker's leg to a gargoyle so he wouldn't escape on his getaway helicoptor. It was Joker who held on and made the coptor climb. Joker was responsible for his own death.

Gary_Bailey
15th Jul 2009, 15:22
Batman in the Tim Burton movies killed a bunch of times. (1) Joker, in the first movie. (2) that black Joker thug near the top of the cathedral (Bats tossed him down the bell tower). (3) Fat clown in Batman Returns (strapped dynamite to him, sent him down a manhole). (4) Penguin in Batman Returns (caused him to fall to his death).

Also, in the Schumacher films: (1) Two-Face. Threw a bunch of coins at him, causing him to fall to his death.

In Batman Begins, Bat-Bale doesn't kill anyone, but neglects to save them, therefore leading to their deaths (as in Ra's Al Ghul).

Tim Burton is probably a clairvoyant and sensed that after Batman Returns, the movies following would be complete and utter **** and decided to make his Batman slightly golden age so his Batman wouldn't give a **** taking lives thus to kill major villians to make sequels harder to make, and thus set the bar that he made the best Batman movies rivalling Nolan's

The_Hylden
15th Jul 2009, 15:44
Batman killed ' Joel Schumacher's' career.

:rasp:

Actually, ol' Joe hasn't done bad for himself afterwards. He nearly killed Batman's movie career, contrarily, though. Thank goodness for Nolan...

I personally think that Batman actually should have decided a few thousand deaths ago that Joker is beyond redemption and just offed him, or half his rogue gallery. There's a point when not killing for a moral reason only hurts others. In this case, it's every innocent that gets killed once the Joker escapes, or whomever else, yet again... But, what can you say? The moral fo the comics is still a good one.

And I think it would be easy to write Batman in a scenario that he had to kill in order to save lives. That's close to what's happened already in Final Crisis, from the sound of it. It's just the matter, like Nightwing said, that no-one wants to push his character fully down that road. The reason being, once he goes down it, then you've already pushed him past his limits. He doesn't have much more left to go as a character. Plus, people like me don't want to see him put through that.

kadashi666
15th Jul 2009, 15:54
Actually, ol' Joe hasn't done bad for himself afterwards. He nearly killed Batman's movie career, contrarily, though. Thank goodness for Nolan...

I personally think that Batman actually should have decided a few thousand deaths ago that Joker is beyond redemption and just offed him, or half his rogue gallery. There's a point when not killing for a moral reason only hurts others. In this case, it's every innocent that gets killed once the Joker escapes, or whomever else, yet again... But, what can you say? The moral fo the comics is still a good one.

And I think it would be easy to write Batman in a scenario that he had to kill in order to save lives. That's close to what's happened already in Final Crisis, from the sound of it. It's just the matter, like Nightwing said, that no-one wants to push his character fully down that road. The reason being, once he goes down it, then you've already pushed him past his limits. He doesn't have much more left to go as a character. Plus, people like me don't want to see him put through that.

yeah but at what point would the issue of him nearly killing somone become stale? i know we all love the idea of batman teatering on this line between killing somone and the responsibility of making sure that he only stops them, but after a while i find it to be kind of predicitable. i can look at any batman comic and know for certaint (unless its non canon) that it will end with batman not killing any of the bad guys adn somehow eventualy having them stoped or isolated. the thril of wethere or not batman will kill isnt really a thrill to me anymore becuase i know he wont.

idk, maybe im just bit-ching pointlessly, but stil....

evilmajikman
15th Jul 2009, 16:10
In his first few golden age stories, Batman usee a gun and killed thugs. But they changed pretty fast to the anti gun Batman we know today.

Comic Batman, yeah during the early golden age he killed people.

Keatons Batman was odd. There were times that he killed people, but then there was that time he tried saving Jack from falling into that pit of ooze.

Drazar
15th Jul 2009, 16:13
Did he really try and save Jack? I havent seen the movie in a long while but i didn't see any guilt when Jack's grip slicked from Batman's hand.

evilmajikman
15th Jul 2009, 16:35
Did he really try and save Jack? I havent seen the movie in a long while but i didn't see any guilt when Jack's grip slicked from Batman's hand.

If he didn't want to save Jack, he wouldn't have bothered to lend him his hand in the first place. Batman wasn't trying to mess with Jacks head like how Joker gave Vicky the fake hand when she was falling. Batman would have saved Jack had that accident didn't happen.

Keatons version was more of a accidents happen kind of guy. What happened was Jack tried shooting Batman, Batman deflected the bullet off his wrist, the bullet ricocheted off a wall, and hit Jack. It was Jacks own bullet that put him in that position in the first place.

Drazar
15th Jul 2009, 16:44
Good point.

Really i never liked the many changes Batman 89 went such as Joker being Wayne family murderer. I can't blame Tim Burton when he was just a pushover forced to constantly accept the rewritten script all the time, it was his 1st blockbuster movie and they treated him like a tool. :p Some ideas on Tim Burton's vision are interesting but really why make Batman a murderer? Not only that it was even more horrible how Joel tried to resolve Batman's nature. In Batman Returns as we saw Keaton realized what kinda monster he actually was thru Catwoman, so in Batman Forever he insits Richard to not murder Two-Face and become a monster only to.... killing Two-Face himself.... >: (

evilmajikman
15th Jul 2009, 17:00
Good point.

Really i never liked the many changes Batman 89 went such as Joker being Wayne family murderer. I can't blame Tim Burton when he was just a pushover forced to constantly accept the rewritten script all the time, it was his 1st blockbuster movie and they treated him like a tool. :p Some ideas on Tim Burton's vision are interesting but really why make Batman a murderer? Not only that it was even more horrible how Joel tried to resolve Batman's nature. In Batman Returns as we saw Keaton realized what kinda monster he actually was thru Catwoman, so in Batman Forever he insits Richard to not murder Two-Face and become a monster only to.... killing Two-Face himself.... >: (

One thing I never cared for in comic based movies is premature deaths. Joker and Penguin didn't need to die the way they did. The 80's/90's movies went more for a karma, killers get killed. They did the same thing with the Spiderman movie franchise (well Green Goblins death was okay). Even when I was a kid, I always found the hypocrisy in Forever funny with Bruce telling Grayson its not okay to kill two-face and then he does it himself.

Batman and Robin, while as horrendous as it was, it kept both of the villains alive. If you think about it, the Burton/Joel movies are similar to his comics evolution from being the early golden age killer, to the anti-killer.

I also laughed at how Two Face in Dark Knight died almost the same way he did in Forever.

vicsage
15th Jul 2009, 18:10
Did he really try and save Jack? I havent seen the movie in a long while but i didn't see any guilt when Jack's grip slicked from Batman's hand.

Batman recognized Jack as his parents' killer as he was helping him up so then he changed his mind and dropped him. Batman killed in both of Burton's films, but I think the folks behind the scenes went with that for two reasons. One was a tribute to the early days of Batman when he actually did kill (as someone already said) and the other was that Burton wanted to really seperate Batman from other heroes like Superman. Burton's first Batman film is still my favorite (and it isn't because of the killing).

In Frank Miller's stories, Batman killed all the time. I remember one instance where a thug had his gun to a child's head and yelled, "I'll kill the kid, man! I'll do it!" Batman responded by picking up a machine gun from a downed thug and blowing the guy away (he saved the kid, too). I was disturbed when I first read that at a younger age, lol.

There was also another story ("Batman: Year Two") in which Batman takes up a gun and joins the mob in trying to take down a new vigilante, The Reaper. The criminals send Joe Chill to go along with him. Batman (knowing Chill killed his parents) eventually takes him to the alley where his parents were shot and starts messing with his head...it looks like Wayne is about to kill him when the Reaper shows up and kills him instead. Batman still has reservations about using a gun in the story so he never kills anyone with it but just the image of him firing one is strange.

I think people who feel Batman should kill have been reading too much Marvel. If Batman started killing, he'd just be another Punisher or Vigilante in a cape and tights. His "no-killing" policy makes him unique. In stories like "A Death in the Family," Batman has strongly felt the urge to kill villains like the Joker but he ultimately lets it go. He can be brutal as hell with his enemies but slaying them? Any killing on Batman's part should be purely accidental.

Abeja
15th Jul 2009, 18:42
What Miller story? I dont remember that from a Frank Miller story, and Im not familiar with Batman Year Two but ive havent heard good thing about it.

They have Paladin who is Batman in another verse as a cowboy Punisher like.

And I dont remember him trying to help the Joker up. Batman was hanging off the cliff, shot the thing to tie Jokers foot to the gargoyle, then Joker wanted to hold on but couldnt. I dont see how he was responsible for killing the Joker.

Drazar
15th Jul 2009, 18:45
Yeah what Miller story has Batman kill? Miller is one of the biggest Batman supporters when it comes to his moral rules.

@ABeja: we were talking about Jack Napier before becoming Joker, the ace chemical factory scene. =)

PS. Blackest Night was just... besides the cheesy lines **** YEAH ZOMBIE EVENT, WOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

Abeja
15th Jul 2009, 18:51
O ok, i didnt realize he recognized thats who killed his parents that early in the movie. I thought he didnt realize that til later.

the only time ive seen Batman actually use what could be a gun is against Darkseid, and when he meets Deathstroke for i believe the first time in Detective Comics, he didnt kill the guy tho.

Yeah Blackest Nights gonna be pretty cool. They are handing out little plastic black lantern rings at the comic book stores too.

Drazar
15th Jul 2009, 18:53
get me one Abeja and mail it to me <3? :P I can pay!

Abeja
15th Jul 2009, 18:56
Lol im contemplating going to my to my comic book store and seeing. Or I might just sit here and play Fallout 3.

Drazar
15th Jul 2009, 19:01
Don't you you love me anymore? <3 :( All our comic nerd discuss.....

Abeja
15th Jul 2009, 19:45
Drazar i caved. I just got back. Got 2 Black Lantern rings. I was just gonna give you the one I got cause they were gonna charge a dollar for the extra one. Went to my car and got some change together, went back in, and they couldnt find how to ring it up so they gave me another one for free.

Matches Malone
15th Jul 2009, 19:55
Actually Batman shoots a mutant thug (and kills him I'm pretty sure) in The Dark Knight Returns. He does it to save the child hostage.

Abeja
15th Jul 2009, 20:17
I saw he used a gun to ignite some plastic explosives, and later in the book he breaks a gun and tells them they dont use them.

angleslam99
15th Jul 2009, 20:26
One thing I never cared for in comic based movies is premature deaths. Joker and Penguin didn't need to die the way they did.

I loved Penguin's death. The music, the atmosphere. Everything. He was already proven to be a huge fraud in front of Gotham during his speech. He tried to destroy Gotham with his penguin army with missiles strapped to them but it was reversed by Batman tampering with the signal. Penguin knew he was done. There was nothing left for him to do. Him rising out of the water was such a great scene, and then he keels over and the penguins drag his body back down into the water.

I'd have to rewatch the Batman 89 movie to give more insight on that. I'll probably re-watch them soon since I have the Anthology coming in the mail soon on blu ray. Yes, I'm even gonna watch Forever and B&R

evilmajikman
15th Jul 2009, 21:40
Batman recognized Jack as his parents' killer as he was helping him up so then he changed his mind and dropped him. Batman killed in both of Burton's films, but I think the folks behind the scenes went with that for two reasons. One was a tribute to the early days of Batman when he actually did kill (as someone already said) and the other was that Burton wanted to really seperate Batman from other heroes like Superman. Burton's first Batman film is still my favorite (and it isn't because of the killing).

In Frank Miller's stories, Batman killed all the time. I remember one instance where a thug had his gun to a child's head and yelled, "I'll kill the kid, man! I'll do it!" Batman responded by picking up a machine gun from a downed thug and blowing the guy away (he saved the kid, too). I was disturbed when I first read that at a younger age, lol.

There was also another story ("Batman: Year Two") in which Batman takes up a gun and joins the mob in trying to take down a new vigilante, The Reaper. The criminals send Joe Chill to go along with him. Batman (knowing Chill killed his parents) eventually takes him to the alley where his parents were shot and starts messing with his head...it looks like Wayne is about to kill him when the Reaper shows up and kills him instead. Batman still has reservations about using a gun in the story so he never kills anyone with it but just the image of him firing one is strange.

I think people who feel Batman should kill have been reading too much Marvel. If Batman started killing, he'd just be another Punisher or Vigilante in a cape and tights. His "no-killing" policy makes him unique. In stories like "A Death in the Family," Batman has strongly felt the urge to kill villains like the Joker but he ultimately lets it go. He can be brutal as hell with his enemies but slaying them? Any killing on Batman's part should be purely accidental.

Nope. Bruce didn't find out Jack was his parents killer until he was the Joker and asked Bruce if he ever danced with the devil @ Vicky's apartment.

vicsage
15th Jul 2009, 22:33
Actually Batman shoots a mutant thug (and kills him I'm pretty sure) in The Dark Knight Returns. He does it to save the child hostage.

That's the part I was referring to...and he shoots the thug with the machine gun using only one quick burst, not a long spray as I initially thought. The thug is shown dropping the kid and falling sideways. It's implied that he's dead.

vicsage
15th Jul 2009, 22:36
What Miller story? I dont remember that from a Frank Miller story, and Im not familiar with Batman Year Two but ive havent heard good thing about it.

It happened in the Dark Knight Returns (from the section "Book Two: The Dark Knight Triumphant").

As for Batman: Year Two, don't believe everything you hear :D I must admit that I haven't read it for a few years but from what I remember I thought it was pretty good.

vicsage
15th Jul 2009, 22:42
I loved Penguin's death. The music, the atmosphere. Everything. He was already proven to be a huge fraud in front of Gotham during his speech. He tried to destroy Gotham with his penguin army with missiles strapped to them but it was reversed by Batman tampering with the signal. Penguin knew he was done. There was nothing left for him to do. Him rising out of the water was such a great scene, and then he keels over and the penguins drag his body back down into the water.

I'd have to rewatch the Batman 89 movie to give more insight on that. I'll probably re-watch them soon since I have the Anthology coming in the mail soon on blu ray. Yes, I'm even gonna watch Forever and B&R

I agree.

Though I feel Batman Returns gets into some darker, loonier material, it still has its moments.

The ending with the Penguin is one of those moments. It's just so tragic and sad, you can't help shedding a tear now and then (at least I can't help it, lol).

Also, the beginning of the film was great. Burton may not have been the best director suited to head the Batman movie franchise, but he certainly did a heck of a job in the visual style and art department. Let's not forget Elfman's tremendous score. Great stuff.

vicsage
15th Jul 2009, 22:54
Nope. Bruce didn't find out Jack was his parents killer until he was the Joker and asked Bruce if he ever danced with the devil @ Vicky's apartment.

I've always felt that Batman thought he recognized his parents' killer and dropped the gangster on purpose (the way the camera stays on his facial expression). If the camera had focused more on their hands clutching and the loss of grip, I'd think otherwise. Later, the "devil in the pale moonlight" line at Vicky's apartment indeed makes Bruce realize the truth.

But even at the end on the cathedral, Joker says to Batman, "You IDIOT! You made me! Remember? You dropped me into that vat of chemicals! That wasn't easy to get over! And don't think that I didn't try.."

I could be completely off, but I'm just saying what I've always assumed.

Nightshifters
15th Jul 2009, 22:59
he also used a thug's gun right before he quit in Batman Beyond right?

I haven't seen it but did he kill that thug?

nop he didn't shoot, he almost bursted in tears just for targeting with the gun :P

The_Hylden
15th Jul 2009, 23:18
Ok, to clear up a little bit of the information on Batman '89:

Jack fires at Batman after blatantly killing Lt. Ekhart "Think about the future!" Batman raises his gauntlet to block and the shot ricochets off of the acid vats, cracking them and sending come acid onto Jack's face (the actual cause of his severed nerves and why he has the permanent smile in the movie, not from the rest of the chemicals he's about to be dumped into the bleach him white, green hair, etc).

Jack falls over the railing. Batman catches his hand. As Jack swings there, slipping slightly, you see a close-up of a cold Batman who actually lets Jack go on purpose. He doesn't put any effort into grabbing Jack up, and the motion of his shoulder is a motion one makes if they shake someone off, not if they help them up.

So, yes, Batman deliberately dropped Jack Napier into the vat of chemicals in Batman '89. His actions come back to haunt him, and it shows you he's become near the monster that's killed his parents, in an ironic twist of fate, creating that further twisted version of that monster himself. That's why when he does find out that Joker is his parents killer and faces him on top of the cathedral, Joker calls him an idiot. "You made me! You dropped me into that vat of chemicals. That wasn't easy to get over and don't think I didn't try!"

Edit: and read the above, vivsage. Bruce had no clue this was his parents' killer until the line of "You ever dance with the devil in the pale moon light?" The close-up in Axis Chemicals on Batman's face was meant to show you that he made a judgment on Jack that he wasn't worth saving, simply because Jack was already a cold murderer and that's how this Batman roles. "It's not a perfect world."

A Dark Hunter
15th Jul 2009, 23:22
I like how Two-Face dies in Batman Forever. Falls to his death into a pool of water, then while slowly sinking into the water, his coin lands in his hand, then he dies. It was kinda how he "died" in TDK but minus the water and coin thing. And to tell you the truth, I like Batman Forever. Even Paul Dini said he liked it in a commentary he was doing for a Batman: TAS episode. Well at least I think it was Dini...it could have also been James Tucker, who was the story board artist, Bruce Timm, who was the producer, or Glen Murakami, who was the art director...but the point is, one of them liked it, pretty sure it was Dini, though.

vicsage
15th Jul 2009, 23:28
Ok, to clear up a little bit of the information on Batman '89:

Jack fires at Batman after blatantly killing Lt. Ekhart "Think about the future!" Batman raises his gauntlet to block and the shot ricochets off of the acid vats, cracking them and sending come acid onto Jack's face (the actual cause of his severed nerves and why he has the permanent smile in the movie, not from the rest of the chemicals he's about to be dumped into the bleach him white, green hair, etc).

Jack falls over the railing. Batman catches his hand. As Jack swings there, slipping slightly, you see a close-up of a cold Batman who actually lets Jack go on purpose. He doesn't put any effort into grabbing Jack up, and the motion of his shoulder is a motion one makes if they shake someone off, not if they help them up.

So, yes, Batman deliberately dropped Jack Napier into the vat of chemicals in Batman '89. His actions come back to haunt him, and it shows you he's become near the monster that's killed his parents, in an ironic twist of fate, creating that further twisted version of that monster himself. That's why when he does find out that Joker is his parents killer and faces him on top of the cathedral, Joker calls him an idiot. "You made me! You dropped me into that vat of chemicals. That wasn't easy to get over and don't think I didn't try!"

Edit: and read the above, vivsage. Bruce had no clue this was his parents' killer until the line of "You ever dance with the devil in the pale moon light?" The close-up in Axis Chemicals on Batman's face was meant to show you that he made a judgment on Jack that he wasn't worth saving, simply because Jack was already a cold murderer and that's how this Batman roles. "It's not a perfect world."

Gotcha, Hylden con queso.

Sank you fo ze clarification de Burtonzie Batmahn.

Hikeeba!

:D

Bat_Fan
16th Jul 2009, 06:08
batman killed ra's al ghul in superman/batman absolute justice i think only because he knew it would be erased from the timeline

shadowmatt18
16th Jul 2009, 06:31
Yes (depending on the source material) most of you are wrong, batman has killed.

- no he did not kill darkseid, he hit him in the eye if im not mistaken but he survived. (he broke his no using gun rule)

-two face was a casualty of him trying to save that boy. he had no intention of killing two face. the three of them fell off the building. his hand grabbed the boys and the wooden support. and even though Nolan said to Eckhart "your six feet under" no one stays dead in comics (or movies)

- Ra's Al Ghul. we were lead to believe died but may return for another movie. we don't know if he escaped or not so you can't call him a "kill" and all you need is a corpse to bring someone back in one of his resurrection pits. also he didn't technically kill him if he did die, he just chose not to save him. indirectly he may be responsible but he didn't really kill him.

comics- he's used a gun in the beginning way back in the golden ages of comics. he may have killed in the 1930's but not likely. the writers used it as a way to threaten criminals the same way a police officer handles a situation.

movies- he absolutely killed thugs in Burtons movies. haven't seen the first one in a while but he blew up the chemical plant with all the men in. someone earlier said he threw a guy out of a window in the church scene. in "Returns" the batmobile set's a man completely on fire so he was likely to die. and the only other situation i can see was when he took the clowns bomb and put in the strong mans belt and threw him down the chimney.

wow...... that took some time.

Batman-DCU
16th Jul 2009, 06:33
I can recall seeing Batman murder a bunch of dogs in The Dark Knight, movie.

In the scene where he has the final confrontation with the Joker, he throws all the dogs down the staircase. Poor things :(

CaptainMcMulla
16th Jul 2009, 06:56
I can recall seeing Batman murder a bunch of dogs in The Dark Knight, movie.

In the scene where he has the final confrontation with the Joker, he throws all the dogs down the staircase. Poor things :(
Does he kill the dogs or just knock them out?

Drazar
16th Jul 2009, 11:29
Does he kill the dogs or just knock them out?

It could have. I mean Batman in Nolan movies keeps hitting people on the head so its a miracle he actually hasn't killed anyone by accident lol.

Zombie-Gamer
16th Jul 2009, 11:36
Does he kill the dogs or just knock them out?

Sorry bout this but thats just reminded me of a TAS ep when Batman hits on of the Jokers Hyenas and the Joker says "Hey! I don't hit your kids....... oh wait yeah I do"

Batfan22
17th Jul 2009, 02:38
In begins he tosses a red hot poker into explosives blowing up ras' place INDIRECtLy killing a bunch of people so i kinda depends on if you count him directly killing or indirectly.

Joker's Jolly Jester
17th Jul 2009, 13:43
in Arkham Asylum: A Serious House on Serious Earth he impales killer Croc

Batman:THE DARK KNIGHT
17th Jul 2009, 14:16
yes.....

Batman-DCU
17th Jul 2009, 20:52
Does he kill the dogs or just knock them out?

If you watch closely, he just throws the dogs right off the top floor of the building, right down the staircase. Not down the stairs, but in the middle of the staircase, so the dogs are implied to have fallen to their deaths.

gaiking2003
17th Jul 2009, 21:44
don't forget what he did to the joker in the 1989 batman film
were he use the grapple gun on the joker on the bell tower ledge

The_Hylden
17th Jul 2009, 21:51
http://www.ecorazzi.com/2008/07/24/peta-goes-up-against-the-dark-knight-for-dog-abuse-scene/

"PETA Goes Up Against The Dark Knight For Dog Abuse Scene"

"We got a tip from one of our loyal readers who spoke with Christine DorĂ© the author of the PETA piece about the film. Dore said, “Basically, while I personally thought it was a fantastic movie, it was a little disappointing, that part of it. I think, you know, that it’s funny that this superhero genius that everyone loves, who has all these fantastic gadgets, who never uses guns, that he doesn’t have access to a tranquilizer or other deflecting device.” Our tipster tried to get more juice, but was quickly rerouted to PETA’s official media department. Damn the man! "

"OK, so now it’s my turn to talk about this. I think it sucks that rottweilers get a bad rap. I wish they didn’t and I wish there weren’t so many euthanized each year. That said, I consider myself a solid 7 out of 10 on the animal rights scale and that scene didn’t offend me in the least. I believe the rule (correct me if I’m wrong vegans) is that violence towards animals is ONLY okay for self-defense. I love animals, but if I had a huge ass, scary Rottweiler centimeters away from destroying my face I just might have to swing too."

Batman, the scourge of PETA. Haha!

Made this in the vein I see so prevalent in funny Batman pics:p :

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v105/pgson/Batman-Hates-Dogs.jpg



And this is just because I found it in my search and it's friggin' cool as hell! :

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v105/pgson/Rottweiler-Cyborg.jpg


Edit:

don't forget what he did to the joker in the 1989 batman film
were he use the grapple gun on the joker on the bell tower ledge

... Yeah, covered that. Throughout all 3 pages :p

metalhead_dave
18th Jul 2009, 00:21
"PETA Goes Up Against The Dark Knight For Dog Abuse Scene"

[B]"We got a tip from one of our loyal readers who spoke with Christine Doré the author of the PETA piece about the film. Dore said, ?Basically, while I personally thought it was a fantastic movie, it was a little disappointing, that part of it. I think, you know, that it?s funny that this superhero genius that everyone loves, who has all these fantastic gadgets, who never uses guns, that he doesn?t have access to a tranquilizer or other deflecting device.? Our tipster tried to get more juice, but was quickly rerouted to PETA?s official media department. Damn the man! "



My God, Peta needs to stop whining. The dogs abused Batman more than he abused them. And it's a freaking movie, isn't there REAL animal abuse that Peta needs to stop?

Argel319
18th Jul 2009, 00:23
In the old Batman movie 1989 he killed that thug by puling him off the bell tower.

And he also told Joker that he'd kill him for killing his parents.


The dogs abused Batman more than he abused them.
:lmao: He just threw the dogs around, since they bit him. Animal abuse? Pfftt, I do that all the time. Just kidding! If I had dogs, they'd bite my legs off...

A Dark Hunter
18th Jul 2009, 00:49
I don't know why Rottweilers are portrayed as fearsome beasts who attack anything that moves! I used to have one, and he was one of the nicest dogs I had ever met.

Locolama
18th Jul 2009, 00:51
First of all Batman didn't murder Darkseid, he shot him, meaning he broke his vow on guns. Darkseid didn't die from the gunshot but it made it easier for the others to finish him.

Also Angelslam there is a big difference between how Batman in the movie works and an actual murder. Ras' al ghul can/would/did/has/ survived the train wreck with his skills in acrobatics, also Batman practically did the same thing to Hush and that story was written by Paul Dini who has been said to be such a Batman expert after all.

Two-Face also didn't get murdered by Batman, as the intention was to save a little boy. :) Batman has a vow againts murders and whatnot, it doesn't ofcourse effect robots even tho comic world has robots with a human-alike AI with emotions and everything.

I disagree... i saw the shooting of Darseid differently. He shot him, therefore breaking his vow to kill anyone, and metaphorically killing himself and everything that he stood for, which also resulted in his actual physical death.

The_Hylden
18th Jul 2009, 01:23
And he also told Joker that he'd kill him for killing his parents.

That just made me remember, he also first tried to mow Joker down with the Bat-Wing. Somehow, he missed with machine guns blazing and two missiles, lol I guess Jack was wearing his bulletproof vest, but that doesn't account for the missile blowing up the street behind him:p Poor Burce. Never got that aiming thing quite down, I guess.

NoMoarDedCawpz
18th Jul 2009, 01:24
Well imho,
In the movies Batman killed: Two-Face(Forever), The Joker(89) and Two-Face(TDK).
Thats my opinion and im sticking by it :thumb: