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View Full Version : Off-topic: Batman, rip-off from Zorro ?



Velderik
11th Jul 2009, 23:50
Dunno if this has been posted yet but it's worth mentioning it :P

PS: The Batman rip-off is on the second page :P

http://www.cracked.com/article_17299_6-famous-characters-you-didnt-know-were-shameless-rip-offs.html

Kai Rei
11th Jul 2009, 23:52
Debatable. I, myself don't think he is but theres always differing opinions. I think he [Batman] was just based on Zorro to begin with until he became his own character entirely.

Drazar
11th Jul 2009, 23:53
Yeah ofcourse this is a known fact. Even Batman's childhood the zorro plays a big part. Batman's parents died the night they went to see the movie "masked zorro". :) But heres a thing: Did you know Bob Kane stole all the credit for Batman while the real creator is Bill Finger? Bob Kane even confessed everything 2-3 years before he died but still didn't give even a "co-creator" sign for him.

Abeja
11th Jul 2009, 23:56
Zur en Arrh anyone? Drazar knows what im taling about.Of course it plays a part, its a masked vigilante. Even in Dark Knight Strikes Again, he marks Luthor with a "Z".

MCREF
12th Jul 2009, 00:05
I don't see him as a rip-off. More like inspired from for me. The creators kept giving Zorro nods too so no biggie. Besides, Zorro (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLftvo9QVus) doesn't get as lucky as Bruce or know how to work through the pain.

CodeBlack
12th Jul 2009, 00:05
Yeah. Zorro was a huge influence on Batman, and there are a lot of homages to Zorro in Batman comics. But there's a big difference between being influenced and being a rip off.

Samtheman53
12th Jul 2009, 00:07
Some stupid spanish tart running around and jumping onto his ***got horse? no

Batfan22
12th Jul 2009, 00:13
most ideas in life are reused but i wouldnt really say copied, think about it how many notes are their in music and how many songs are there a lot of stuff ends up being vaguely similar to something else but its still different

Rareless09
12th Jul 2009, 00:18
Zur en Arrh anyone? Drazar knows what im taling about.Of course it plays a part, its a masked vigilante. Even in Dark Knight Strikes Again, he marks Luthor with a "Z".
Can someone explain the significance of that name? Zur en Arrh? What's the catch? I read the comic, but wasn't a big fan of that storyline so I guess its meaning is lost on me...



Dunno if this has been posted yet but it's worth mentioning it :P

PS: The Batman rip-off is on the second page :P

http://www.cracked.com/article_17299_6-famous-characters-you-didnt-know-were-shameless-rip-offs.html
Unfortunately not too many ideas are entirely original, even Shakespeare ripped off stuff from other writers. The cool thing about Batman is how he's evolved through the minds of different people throughout over 70 years of comics, TV, and movies. This shows that people are very good at molding good ideas and making them more significant.
Bob Kane (whether or not the idea was his or not) still played the role of the catalyst to ignite the Batman legend.

Drazar
12th Jul 2009, 00:20
Can someone explain the significance of that name? Zur en Arrh? What's the catch? I read the comic, but wasn't a big fan of that storyline so I guess its meaning is lost on me...
.

Zorro in Arkham. Zur en Arrh.

Amputechture
12th Jul 2009, 00:21
Some stupid spanish tart running around and jumping onto his ***got horse? no

Confirmed. Troll!

Whoo!
12th Jul 2009, 01:37
Batman was influenced by a number of different characters, not just Zorro, but also

-The Shadow(the first Batman story in Detective comics 27 was literally taken off one of the shadow's)

-one of Da Vinci's flying machine concepts

-"The Bat"-the murderer who dressed up as a bat(with a realistic bat mask the size of a human head!) and killed/robbed people in the 1920s original version of "the Bat" (also the idea for the Bat signal was ripped off of this film)

Zorro influenced other superheroes as well and its not really right to say Batman was ripped off from him, one uses a sword and a whip, the other beats the crap out of people with his barehands and a batarang

Batman is closer to The Shadow than Zorro,except for the fact that Batman has no superpowers, is "the world's greatest detective" and is "the Goddamn Batman"

...Also, the name of the film Bruce saw the night his parents were murdered was "The Mark of Zorro", I think you were confusing it with Antonio Banderas' 1998 "The Mask of Zorro", sorry about being nitpicky

-

DarkKnightDanny
12th Jul 2009, 01:55
Yeah ofcourse this is a known fact. Even Batman's childhood the zorro plays a big part. Batman's parents died the night they went to see the movie "masked zorro". :) But heres a thing: Did you know Bob Kane stole all the credit for Batman while the real creator is Bill Finger? Bob Kane even confessed everything 2-3 years before he died but still didn't give even a "co-creator" sign for him.

i was at the impression that finger wrote batman and kane sketched him. and over the years kane took over the writing part?

Sivart
12th Jul 2009, 02:47
As far as I can tell, Kane took the idea and claimed it was all his when he really just gave him the Bat-motif.

The Tick
12th Jul 2009, 02:49
Batman's creation and inspiration has long been disputed to the point where I don't know who to believe. I don't believe Kane came up with the idea on his own but how much of the idea was his I'm not sure.

CodeBlack
12th Jul 2009, 04:40
As far as I can tell, Kane took the idea and claimed it was all his when he really just gave him the Bat-motif.

The story goes that Bob Kane and Bill Finger made Batman together, but Kane cut a deal so that he'd be the only one who got credit (note that anything involving Batman includes the line "Batman created by Bob Kane" somewhere; that was part of the deal). Finger sketched, but he also came up with a lot of the character and setting ideas.

JustAnotherUser
12th Jul 2009, 04:51
Some stupid spanish tart running around and jumping onto his ***got horse? no

What's wrong with hispanics?

apple@thebatmanuniverse
12th Jul 2009, 17:47
The story goes that Bob Kane and Bill Finger made Batman together, but Kane cut a deal so that he'd be the only one who got credit (note that anything involving Batman includes the line "Batman created by Bob Kane" somewhere; that was part of the deal). Finger sketched, but he also came up with a lot of the character and setting ideas.

almost but just missing alittle detail. bob and bill did work together before 'the bat-man' was created on other comic strips. bob did come up with the name the 'bat-man' and told bill what kinda story can we create, now bob based this of a zorro inspired theme.
hence why bill finger gave bat-man a cave just like zorro.
but bob's version of batman was not dark at first, bill asked him to use less blue and add more black. bill also gave batman a gun, which bob had said in those early days that he didn't agree with the gun but bill was the writer. readers didn't like that bat-man killed people. so with the release of batman 1 in 1940 bill took most of what we know now from that start off point of batman and bob got his art style really going.
but detective comics #27 was a batman that was really rough around the edges and batman 1 was the batman we know today.

so yes bob got credit for creating batman, he came up with the name and look of batman. bill came up with the back story, at first comic readers didn't like the first batman but was liked nmore once batman took a diffrent theme in his first solo comic breaking away from DC series.

batman fans i mean diehard fans know that batman is just like superman when it comes to his creators. batman had 2 fathers bob kane and bill finger.
in 1975 when bill passed at age 60, dc comics reprinted dc# 27 and batman #1 in honor of bills passing. and carmine infantino made it clearly known that batman had 2 fathers.

now when bob was asked if he created batman, he would not lie, he did create batman.
but when bob was asked about the cave and villains he would say bill and i came up with this idea.

this is much like david goyer and chris nolan now. everybody hears about chri nolan's films and chris is great and it's nolanuniverse of batman......but what about david? chris always says in interviews that him and david came up with a story for bb and tdk. even now i mean right now, david goyer is coming up with an idea for batman 3 and he and chris will talk in off and on for this next year about a another batman story. but david will never get the fame as chris nolan. sure people who work in the industry know david but what about the common movie goer?

same thing with bob and bill, bob created 'batman' but the stories were written by bill in a partnership/ friendship. just like chris and david do today for the films.

its not about taking sides, bob and bill created alot of what we know today, but the things you like about batman might have not been created even by them. i mean alot of writers and artist have worked on batman over his 70+ history so diffrent takes have shaped batman. i mean most of you might not even like the early batman stories by bill, but prefer dennis o'neil and neal adams batman really or frank millers and david mazzucchelli's take. so many writers and artist have done their own thing. i love it all but creators like bob and bill make batman great, not robbing zorro but inspiration from a hero like zorro was the underlining.

and for the spanish thing, lol back then it was spanish, today zorro would be known as a mexican. lol

Abeja
12th Jul 2009, 17:53
Was it Zorro in Batman Begins they saw? Or something else, they really didnt indicate it was Zorro, just the bat-like actors is all we saw.

apple@thebatmanuniverse
12th Jul 2009, 18:07
in bb it was a play but zorro was not used for 2 reasons.

1. zorro's rights are owned by sony-tristar back then
2. david said we can use bat like dancers for themes if we could not use zorro.

Whoo!
12th Jul 2009, 20:24
Also:

3) Zorro wouldn't have fit into the story's theme of fear

Abeja
12th Jul 2009, 23:26
I think its what made me really enjoy the concept of Zur en Arrh even more.

cyberw4ste
13th Jul 2009, 20:04
In Batman Begins they're at an opera. They never say which opera but I'm 99% certain that it's supposed to be Die Fledermaus. (French for 'the Bat')

bathead
13th Jul 2009, 22:21
In Batman Begins they're at an opera. They never say which opera but I'm 99% certain that it's supposed to be Die Fledermaus. (French for 'the Bat')

Correcction: Die Fledermaus is German for bat, literally translated as "the flying mouse"