PDA

View Full Version : Now we know why its called 'Among Thieves'



Jurre
11th Jul 2009, 15:22
For the people who argued that Tr and Udf are nothing alike,... well have a look:

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/exclusive-ice-uncharted-2/52604#comments_top

I think it pretty much speaks for itself... one thing though, do you notice that ND advertises the game by just showing actual gameplay? Not by showing fabricated scenes with trolls on a bridge that don't occur in the actual game?

chriss_99
11th Jul 2009, 17:51
Uncharted is definetely similar to Tomb Raider, propably because it's based on TR's formula. Tomb Raider is better because it was the first game based on exploration and puzzle solving. It was revolutionary, although nowadays it seems to have lost something.

It's hard to admmit to the fact that Uncharted 2 may be a much better game then, for example, Underworld. I'm the old TR-fan, so personally I will always choose Tomb Raider over some other game. To be honest, I have never played Uncharted, but looking at this footage makes me want to try it. If I had a PS3 I think I would by this game.

Lara still rules and Drake (with his short legs) should be scared, because TR9 is coming. :D

LC is Me
11th Jul 2009, 17:54
Really, ND?

That looks exactly like a combination of Nepal from Legend and the beginning of Peru from TR1/Anniversary with a sprinkle of Jan Mayan Island. Freeclimbing and wallrunning look similar, biting level designs...

This pisses me off.
Like a burning hot fierce intense flood of anger just washed over me that I didn't know was even possible.

Treeble
11th Jul 2009, 18:13
Why do all Core fanboys hate the ledges in Crystal Design TR games and yet praise this game so much? Plus, I thought the Underworld character animations were not as smooth in comparison to what we saw in Anniversary, but they're still much, much better than this one. o_O

I'm getting a PS3 by the end of the month (mostly for Street Fighter IV, mind you), and I still don't find anything about this series exciting at all. :/

tombraidergal
11th Jul 2009, 18:13
I'm watching it.... i'm watching it...... hmmm..... What the hell! That first bit reminds me of nepal, he climbs like lara croft! So cheeky.... it's like lara croft but male... what the hell?! ANNIVERSARY MUCH! JAN MAYEN MUCH! how dare they? The bit where that man jumps and holds onto that other mans hand cause he fell, reminds me all too much of the beginning of tomb raider anniversary, and the climbing bit of jan mayen islands.... RIP OFF! Wall run!!!!! How dare they?! That's lara's moves!!!!!! The big wintery room reminds me of nepal just when lara swings the grapples on the bell like objects to get to the weighing scale puzzle.
This makes me mad, so mad i feel like i want to charge right upto the makers and yell at them!
No! POLES! He can swing?! Never! They better take that back right now.... i feel like crying...

:( evilllllllll!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! RIP OFF! pause at 1:39, look at the left and you see a buda too similar to the weighing scale one in nepal tomb raider legend. bad bad bad... it looks good but it is just a twin to tomb raider! This game makes assasins creed seem like the manliest.... that's lara's look back off a ledge! Jan mayen nickers!
WEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRR. i need a shoulder to cry on...

jayjay119
11th Jul 2009, 20:04
For the people who argued that Tr and Udf are nothing alike,... well have a look:

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/exclusive-ice-uncharted-2/52604#comments_top

I think it pretty much speaks for itself... one thing though, do you notice that ND advertises the game by just showing actual gameplay? Not by showing fabricated scenes with trolls on a bridge that don't occur in the actual game?

Why do i get the distinct feeling that you have only posted this to Bash TR? On a TR forum! Like you say Among thieves; is an apt title, parts of this game are some of the worst rip offs i have ever seen. There are distinct likenesses of every TR game CD has made in here!

I know games in the same genre borrow from each other but this is too much!

IvanaKC
11th Jul 2009, 20:06
Uncharted is definetely similar to Tomb Raider, propably because it's based on TR's formula. Tomb Raider is better because it was the first game based on exploration and puzzle solving. It was revolutionary, although nowadays it seems to have lost something.

It's hard to admmit to the fact that Uncharted 2 may be a much better game then, for example, Underworld. I'm the old TR-fan, so personally I will always choose Tomb Raider over some other game. To be honest, I have never played Uncharted, but looking at this footage makes me want to try it. If I had a PS3 I think I would by this game.

Lara still rules and Drake (with his short legs) should be scared, because TR9 is coming. :D

it really looks like Jan Mayen Island and mountain caves and Nepal :eek:

jayjay119
11th Jul 2009, 20:36
Seconded. Bits even look like the Peru section of Legend but iced over!

IvanaKC
11th Jul 2009, 20:45
it looks like nepal on this part exactly like nepal :

http://i28.tinypic.com/2zsxr9k.jpg

and like Thailand Shiva statue in Underworld like covered with ice here:

http://i29.tinypic.com/2n1f87s.jpg

Jurre
11th Jul 2009, 20:56
Why do i get the distinct feeling that you have only posted this to Bash TR? On a TR forum! I call it criticising it. And I've been criticising Tr Underworld from the moment I've played it, that shouldn't come as a surprise...

jayjay119
11th Jul 2009, 20:58
No but to make it sound like, next to Uncharted the whole TR franchise is a waste of time is a bit strong, that's how you came across, to me at least!

Jurre
11th Jul 2009, 21:14
Not the Tr franchise as a whole, but Tr Underworld... yeah, considering the alternative its been a waste of time and money in my view. They should have known in 2007 that Udf was a competitor, and that they should've try to go at least on par with that: but they didn't even attempt: a game with bugs like that and combat like that: that's just unacceptable.

You see: the more Uncharted looks like Tomb Raider: that means the more potential Tomb Raider actually has: Udf's succes is proof that there still is need for Indiana Jonesque adventure games, they just need to be made well and more focussed on what the people outside the regular fanbase want from it.

rg_001100
11th Jul 2009, 22:09
Why do i get the distinct feeling that you have only posted this to Bash TR? On a TR forum!
What I don't get is that Jurre seems to be the only one praising UDF over TR...


I'm watching it.... i'm watching it...... hmmm..... What the hell! That first bit reminds me of nepal, he climbs like lara croft! So cheeky.... it's like lara croft but male... what the hell?! ANNIVERSARY MUCH! JAN MAYEN MUCH! how dare they? The bit where that man jumps and holds onto that other mans hand cause he fell, reminds me all too much of the beginning of tomb raider anniversary, and the climbing bit of jan mayen islands.... RIP OFF! Wall run!!!!! How dare they?! That's lara's moves!!!!!! The big wintery room reminds me of nepal just when lara swings the grapples on the bell like objects to get to the weighing scale puzzle.
This makes me mad, so mad i feel like i want to charge right upto the makers and yell at them!
No! POLES! He can swing?! Never! They better take that back right now.... i feel like crying...

:( evilllllllll!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! RIP OFF! pause at 1:39, look at the left and you see a buda too similar to the weighing scale one in nepal tomb raider legend. bad bad bad... it looks good but it is just a twin to tomb raider! This game makes assasins creed seem like the manliest.... that's lara's look back off a ledge! Jan mayen nickers!
WEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRR. i need a shoulder to cry on...
Some things just aren't all that unique to a series. I've not played any PoP games, but I hear CD's TR moves are copied from that game. Some things are just generic; all first-person shooters are going to share some common ground in terms of gameplay or game mechanics, etc. The problem comes when originality is missing... One of the criticisms of UDF from Zero Punction was that it was "safe" and unexciting; everything that worked had just been borrowed and done elsewhere before.

MissJess
11th Jul 2009, 22:31
The only thing that pisses me off are the comments below.

"basically this is Tomb Raider without skimpy swim suits"
"would you stop comparing this to Tomb Raider, that franchise is dead!"
"Tomb Raider Sucks"


****

josh1122
12th Jul 2009, 00:17
No but to make it sound like, next to Uncharted the whole TR franchise is a waste of time is a bit strong, that's how you came across, to me at least!

It's called being a fanboy of a game.

Jurre
12th Jul 2009, 00:25
It's called being a fanboy of a game.

Yes, that it exactly what you people are: I belong more to the mainstream crowd, I never made a secret of that.

And to be honest, I don't know what you people are talking about: what I said in post 1 is that the new Udf looks like Tomb Raider and the material that Naughty Dog releases is the actual game, not false advertising like the Tr Underworld trailer.

Error96_
12th Jul 2009, 00:33
Uncharted is definetely similar to Tomb Raider, propably because it's based on TR's formula. Tomb Raider is better because it was the first game based on exploration and puzzle solving. It was revolutionary, although nowadays it seems to have lost something.

It's hard to admmit to the fact that Uncharted 2 may be a much better game then, for example, Underworld. I'm the old TR-fan, so personally I will always choose Tomb Raider over some other game. To be honest, I have never played Uncharted, but looking at this footage makes me want to try it. If I had a PS3 I think I would by this game.

Lara still rules and Drake (with his short legs) should be scared, because TR9 is coming. :D

It does look a bit of a rip off of TR at least from that footage. Annoying similar but don't know about the rest of the game. Obviously some copying does go on between games. I think it's quite sad that TR has itself copied moves like the wall run which is a clear Prince of Persia move and so not Lara like.

Tomb Raider and Lara has that uniqueness and that different feel to other games that makes it great and maybe feel better than these other similar games. TRU was a lot more generic with similar series than any other TR game so far. That is worrying and think CD have to be careful to keep a uniqueness that copy rival games can't match. Lara can easily outclass this Drake guy and have a bigger following. Just the games need to as well.

Bampire
12th Jul 2009, 07:05
Looks like a good game, but it just reminds me soooo much of Tomb Raider, but more tag-team-duel. Kind of like an Indiana Jones, but less whipy-whip.

I'm interested in playing the old and new Uncharted, though.

Yes, this has already been posted over 9,000 times before. But it's true, and when it's true it has to be plastered all over.

Bampire
12th Jul 2009, 07:17
it looks like nepal on this part exactly like nepal :

http://i28.tinypic.com/2zsxr9k.jpg

Not exactly, but it does have the same feeling as it does.

http://i27.tinypic.com/1584gm9.png

Tomb Raider: Legend -Nepal (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLUKjJBE6rY)

Yes, it has huge similarities to eachother. But it's obvious that the creators of Uncharted has been inspired by Tomb Raider, and has been using the same elements as our Lara, when it comes to the actions/moves/animations.

Yes, it's annoying, and we all hate seeing things ripped off from our favourite thing. But it doesn't make either game less crappy. I haven't played Uncharted, but when and or IF I do, I doubt it'll be exactly alike of TR.

jayjay119
12th Jul 2009, 12:44
Its not, I don't know about Uncharted 2, but the first was basically just cover, shoot, run, rinse and repeat after the first 20 minutes! Hardly any platforming at all in my memory and any platforming there was,w as just shimmying nothing that inventive, Legends moves set surpassed Drakes in UDF1

josh1122
12th Jul 2009, 12:48
Yes, that it exactly what you people are: I belong more to the mainstream crowd, I never made a secret of that.

And to be honest, I don't know what you people are talking about: what I said in post 1 is that the new Udf looks like Tomb Raider and the material that Naughty Dog releases is the actual game, not false advertising like the Tr Underworld trailer.

Like I said, keep up your fanboy ways with Uncharted. It's blatantly obvious.

Also almost every post you made(lately/couple) is about UDF is amazing, best this and that,which is fine because theres nothing wrong with liking something but then you proceed to bash TR either before or after. It's becoming a trend.

This is why I label you a fanboy, because of your posts as of late, this thread alone is just to throw insults at TR in general, anyone who isnt blind can see that.

Jurre
12th Jul 2009, 13:01
And yet you are wrong because I am not a typical fanboy of Uncharted, neither do I 'bash' Tr in general, I critisise Tr Underworld. There are lots of people here who proclaimed that Underworld blew and also people who have sympathies for Uncharted, so what all this fuss is about, I have no idea...

josh1122
12th Jul 2009, 13:05
And yet you are wrong because I am not a typical fanboy of Uncharted, neither do I 'bash' Tr in general, I critisise Tr Underworld. There are lots of people here who proclaimed that Underworld blew and also people who have sympathies for Uncharted, so what all this fuss is about, I have no idea...

Well I'll stick by my opinion on the matter. I'm sure you'd have a better time over at the Uncharted forums though, that's more your game now since you seem to be done with TR (just going by your comments).

Jurre
12th Jul 2009, 13:08
Well I'll stick by my opinion on the matter. I'm sure you'd have a better time over at the Uncharted forums though, that's more your game now since you seem to be done with TR (just going by your comments).

Well what comments make you feel that way? I am not sure if you realise it, but I have been making fun of Nathen Drake for having short legs, I have also critised the story and the actual title of this thread implies that I acuse them for stealing ideas from Tr. Pretty unusual for a fanboy don't you think??
I am also one of the few who are optimistic about the leaked Tr9 material.

lilhanhan
12th Jul 2009, 13:10
I know Uncharted is a similar game to Tomb Raider but why is there so many "It's a TR rip-off!!!" posts?

Yeah, it's similar but it's not exactly a rip-off, it's got it's own elements which make it it's own game.

No game is exactly original anymore, all FPS seem to be based in WW2 or in the Future (never in between those two timelines), most fighting games follow the same formula, platformers always have a weird mascot and/or animal and of course every game which includes an adventurer is associated with Indiana Jones (who is based off tons of old adventure films which include a hero carrying a whip and hat).

Just because Lara explores Nepal doesn't mean Nathan Drake can't, if that happened there'll be no more areas that any videogame characters can explore!

As for the bad comments made against TR such as "would you stop comparing this to Tomb Raider, that franchise is dead!", they do have a point. We might not agree with it but to be honest with TRU not selling as well as Eidos wanted and the news/rumours of another reboot, it isn't going to help the franchise get new supporters.

I love TR but it doesn't mean I have to moan about Uncharted, I just think that's just silly. You're beginning to sound like the "fanboys" by retaliating against them.

jayjay119
12th Jul 2009, 13:18
To be honest, I am a TR fanboy, I have no gripes about admitting it. I've loved the franchise ever since TR1 was released in 1996 and i'd probably defend it to anything, within reason of course.

But I also believe that games in the same genre have to borrow from each other, TR and POP earlier in this decade did, Now Uncharted is borrowing from TR. Its ok to do so as they're in the same genre and its a pattern like you say Lil. The part that annoys me though is that when people are insistent, to the point of ignorance that UDF is so much better than TR and is doing things TR never dreamed of when there are so many blatant tips of the hat to the past 3 TR games just in UDF2. Its that I can't stand not the borrowing and similarities.

josh1122
12th Jul 2009, 13:21
As for the bad comments made against TR such as "would you stop comparing this to Tomb Raider, that franchise is dead!", they do have a point. We might not agree with it but to be honest with TRU not selling as well as Eidos wanted and the news/rumours of another reboot, it isn't going to help the franchise get new supporters.



To be honest, EIDOS had blind expectations for TRU. They put this game up against blockbuster titles that people cared about more than Tomb Raider and still managed what? over 2mil sold in the huge holiday blockbuster season,I consider that a success in itself and honestly I felt the game should've been pushed back several months as well. I'm not sure how they thought that was a failure, but as I said, it was their own blind expectations.

EIDOS should NEVER expect Tomb Raider to sell huge again because quite frankly this franchise isn't as popular anymore and never will be. Puzzle/Platforming is pretty much dead, its all about generic third person or first person shooters now a days, guess EIDOS/CD are finally going to give into that. Whether I like it or hate it is to be decided(completely) in the next half year or so when we start seeing more content

jayjay119
12th Jul 2009, 13:36
I agree with you josh. Eidos should basically give up trying to push TR into the mainstream. They've been trying it for so long now and when they achieved it with Legend, well it really wasn't TR now was it? I think Eidos should be content with the money TR does make in its own right, which is still a lot and focus on the the people's opinions who still wanna play it!

Oh and BTW Eidos announced a while back that TRU had reached expectations and target sales when it hit the 2 million mark, sooooo....

Jurre
12th Jul 2009, 13:55
josh1122, I'd like to settle this, can you please stop ignoring me and tell what it was that I said that was so outrageous to you?

josh1122
12th Jul 2009, 14:12
josh1122, I'd like to settle this, can you please stop ignoring me and tell what it was that I said that was so outrageous to you?

What is there to settle? you had your say, I had mine. It was pretty much settled in itself. There's no use dragging the same thing on when we both have different opinions on the matter. Best to leave it settled the way it is,we'll never come to an agreement on what we were both going on about, which is why I just dropped it to begin with

lilhanhan
12th Jul 2009, 14:18
I understand why you're angry at the fact that the opinions of UDF being better than TR seem a bit exaggerated especially when it's borrowed a few elements from this series, but they're probably doing that because it's the first time TR has actually had direct competition.

Uncharted may seem completely new to them because TR has been going for so long, it seems that they haven't added anything new to the formula (although CD did revamp the series); yes it may be ignorance but maybe it's a hint that TR needs to do something which makes it stand out of the crowd once again.

I know that Eidos later stated that TRU reached expectations but that was after news spread that they thought it didn't do too well. Knowing gamers especially ones who think TR is dead; they would only bother to read/focus on the first report, probably just so that they can support their claims that TR isn't as good as it used to be.

I don't mind people expressing their views when they have constructive criticism but just saying that something has been ripped-off because a character also explores Nepal/a snowy level like Lara seems a bit too silly.

I hope you understand were I'm coming from, I too love TR but at times I do think that we need a change, it's not that bad to actually have some competition... :)

Jurre
12th Jul 2009, 14:18
What is there to settle? you had your say, I had mine. It was pretty much settled in itself. There's no use dragging the same thing on when we both have different opinions on the matter. Best to leave it settled the way it is,we'll never come to an agreement on what we were both going on about, which is why I just dropped it to begin with

Well because I can't possibly imagine what all that fuss was about I believe there's been some misinterpretation of words, but if you wanna drop it I guess that's that...

josh1122
12th Jul 2009, 14:26
I hope you understand were I'm coming from, I too love TR but at times I do think that we need a change, it's not that bad to actually have some competition... :)

I'm honestly not sure why people think of it as a competition in the first place. If you like something, play it and enjoy it. If you don't like something, don't play it and move on. I boil it down to that path :lol:

lilhanhan
12th Jul 2009, 14:36
I'm honestly not sure why people think of it as a competition in the first place. If you like something, play it and enjoy it. If you don't like something, don't play it and move on. I boil it down to that path :lol:

Well, I mean competition as in it helps to make each developer/publisher to step up their game, not so people can argue over which one is best.

I for one buy games because I like them and because I know that I will enjoy them for a long period of time but I also know that without competition, some developers won't improve their franchises.

We wouldn't get anywhere without a bit of competition, it helps businesses know what the people want and how they can improve. :)

oraclebop
12th Jul 2009, 14:39
Well, I mean competition as in it helps to make each developer/publisher to step up their game, not so people can argue over which one is best.

I for one buy games because I like them and because I know that I will enjoy them for a long period of time but I also know that without competition, some developers won't improve their franchises.

We wouldn't get anywhere without a bit of competition, it helps businesses know what the people want and how they can improve. :)

Exactly. Gamers expect something new. But sometimes Dev's just won't listen, So another company steals their ideas and make something much better, the Dev's have to fight for it!

Uncharted did it, And I think POP did too, with he whole 3D thing. And now, with the new possible concept art, looks like CD's ramping it up. :thumb:

qwerty
12th Jul 2009, 14:40
Well, I mean competition as in it helps to make each developer/publisher to step up their game, not so people can argue over which one is best.

I for one buy games because I like them and because I know that I will enjoy them for a long period of time but I also know that without competition, some developers won't improve their franchises.

We wouldn't get anywhere without a bit of competition, it helps businesses know what the people want and how they can improve. :)

i know that udf is a great game..but i just cant lay a hand on it...it feels like cheating on my girlfriend for some reason,like doing a horrible,condeming act..

LARALOVERnr1
12th Jul 2009, 14:47
It´s so fake. Tomb Raider; only fun for the die-hard fans. Uncharted:awesome,incredible amazing game! whats the difference? There is no difference! And Tomb Raider was first, so...

MissJess
12th Jul 2009, 22:00
It´s so fake. Tomb Raider; only fun for the die-hard fans. Uncharted:awesome,incredible amazing game! whats the difference? There is no difference! And Tomb Raider was first, so...

Lol I know plenty of people who enjoy Tomb Raider and are not 'die hard' fans. :P

Dusk Knight
13th Jul 2009, 06:00
Won't you join me in denouncing the evil Indiana Jones as he visits Tibet!?
For it would be most foul to express positive feelings for more than a single series in the action-adventure treasure hunter genre.
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f215/Dusk-Knight/957999_20090403_screen005.jpg

Anyway, I've been replaying TRU lately and it's a great game.
I've also been wanting to replay UDF since the U2AF beta ended, since it's also a great game.
I recently played Indiana Jones and the Staff of Moses Kings and it's an okay game.

Steven_1379
13th Jul 2009, 10:25
Tomb Raider gave a little meaning to my life... its what i was looking for
but even though i have to admit ( and i hate admitting it) ((i really do))
ND really put a little more passion i making UDF
the story was great, the only thing i hated about it was that it was 75%shooting 25% exploration/puzzle/
whilst Tomb Raider is 65%exploration/puzzle/ 35%shooting-which i have loved, and will love even when they somewhat disappoint me a little and i sometime can clearly notice what went wrong...
you know sometimes i feel like visiting CD and
1-remind them we have an enemy in our game genre now and and there beating us a little
2-supervise they keep on the Tomb Raider feel path
3-i know i would work there for free for sure just to keep my series alive so my grand kids can play and go daddy...this is the best game ever, it makes you want to go places and explore
"i know baby...i know''
TOMB RAIDER PUERTO RICO

lilhanhan
13th Jul 2009, 10:38
It´s so fake. Tomb Raider; only fun for the die-hard fans. Uncharted:awesome,incredible amazing game! whats the difference?

What's fake? :confused:

Oh, and my parents like to play TR from time to time, as do some of my friends and they're not "die-hard" fans. If TR was only for "die-hard" fans it wouldn't sell so much...



There is no difference! And Tomb Raider was first, so...

So...? Being first doesn't always mean it's always better.

LARALOVERnr1
13th Jul 2009, 12:29
What's fake? :confused:

Oh, and my parents like to play TR from time to time, as do some of my friends and they're not "die-hard" fans. If TR was only for "die-hard" fans it wouldn't sell so much...



So...? Being first doesn't always mean it's always better.

I know. I also know some people who like to play Tomb Raider and ain't Die-Hard fans, but here in Holland almost every mature-gaming magazine(Power Unlimited, PC-gameplay) says TR is only fun for the fans, and they also say Uncharted is waaaaaayyyyyy better.(tough i can't see why...) so my post was a bit exaggerated, but... well, you know what i mean...:o

lilhanhan
13th Jul 2009, 14:42
I know. I also know some people who like to play Tomb Raider and ain't Die-Hard fans, but here in Holland almost every mature-gaming magazine(Power Unlimited, PC-gameplay) says TR is only fun for the fans, and they also say Uncharted is waaaaaayyyyyy better.(tough i can't see why...) so my post was a bit exaggerated, but... well, you know what i mean...:o

Well they're only saying it's better because it's something new. TR has been around for at least ten years and the fact that with TRU you needed to play the previous two games to get the full story (I know they included a video explaining the plot so far but it wasn't really that helpful), you can see why they say it's only for fans.

I know it sounds like I prefer Uncharted (I don't have PS3, so I can't play it unless there's a demo in a game store,etc.) but I'm just saying what most gamers think, they just want something new; gamers can be awkward people at times but they just want to be entertained...

Ants_27_
13th Jul 2009, 16:26
The story of uncharted 1 seemed to have a lot more depth than Tomb Raider, more so Underworld. I like tomb raider and uncharted but I am looking forward to uncharted 2 than I was Tomb Raider Underworld though.

I also don't look at games and say "That's been copied off [insert game here] so I'm not gonna play it!" I mean Uncharted was far better than underworld - so my opinion states, though I enjoyed Underworld too!

josh1122
13th Jul 2009, 19:08
I personally thought Uncharted was one of the most repetitive games ive played in recent years, it was up there with Assassins Creed. The beta for Uncharted 2 wasn't very impressive either, it's basically your regular third person shooter. Hopefully the second one wont be as boring or as repetitive as the first. Keep in my mind this is my opinion, so take it as that.

I'm hoping TR9 doesn't turn out to be as generic as most of the third person shooters/horror genre type games that are out there.

_Love2Raid_
13th Jul 2009, 20:13
Uncharted is an action-orientated, easy and lineair Tomb Raider rip-off. It has again been confirmed by this video. I don't care that I can't play it. :wave:

josh1122
13th Jul 2009, 20:18
Uncharted is an action-orientated, easy and lineair Tomb Raider rip-off. It has again been confirmed by this video. I don't care that I can't play it. :wave:

Everything rips off something else, there's no way around it. Every game of the same genre in their respected category borrows from each other

Ants_27_
14th Jul 2009, 07:17
I personally thought Uncharted was one of the most repetitive games ive played in recent years, it was up there with Assassins Creed. The beta for Uncharted 2 wasn't very impressive either, it's basically your regular third person shooter. Hopefully the second one wont be as boring or as repetitive as the first. Keep in my mind this is my opinion, so take it as that.

I'm hoping TR9 doesn't turn out to be as generic as most of the third person shooters/horror genre type games that are out there.

I think all games get repetitive now, heck even Underworld was. That's basically games now, repetitive and short:rasp:

I love them both the same, but both were repetitive. Though the story in uncharted seemed less predictable than Underworlds.

oraclebop
14th Jul 2009, 07:19
Everything rips off something else, there's no way around it. Every game of the same genre in their respected category borrows from each other

Exactly. It's all about Making it unique. ;)

josh1122
14th Jul 2009, 07:35
I think all games get repetitive now, heck even Underworld was. That's basically games now, repetitive and short:rasp:

I love them both the same, but both were repetitive. Though the story in uncharted seemed less predictable than Underworlds.

Actually it was very predictable. From the very beginning it was pretty much a no brainer what was going to happen, to myself anyways. In regards to Uncharted

jayjay119
14th Jul 2009, 13:14
I agree josh, you can always tell that in this genre there is going to be some mystic twist, so yeah uncharted was pretty predictable.

Also, with UDF2 coming out soon i recently got UDF1 again, and I must say its no where near as good as I remember it being.. and that wasn't very! The platforming is more linear than i remember, the weapons calibration is slightly off, it's somewhat unrealistic.. it takes 2-3 to the head to kill someone, on easy mode, the cover system doesn't really work and the graphics are quite rough up close!

oraclebop
14th Jul 2009, 13:43
I agree josh, you can always tell that in this genre there is going to be some mystic twist, so yeah uncharted was pretty predictable.

Also, with UDF2 coming out soon i recently got UDF1 again, and I must say its no where near as good as I remember it being.. and that wasn't very! The platforming is more linear than i remember, the weapons calibration is slightly off, it's somewhat unrealistic.. it takes 2-3 to the head to kill someone, on easy mode, the cover system doesn't really work and the graphics are quite rough up close!

And they said it was Better than Tomb Raider... Pssh. :p

naraku
15th Jul 2009, 09:20
Whoah, Give Drake a bullwhip he's so Indiana Jones! With spurred of the moment um... moments. The game is Killzone2-ish and TRU-ish. Ok it borrows *cogh* rips off *cough* other game elements, but I can't argue with it's execution. It does what it does, well. Profanity and spicy scenes and yet it's rated "T"?!

Why then is "TR", "Lego Indiana Jones" with a "T" rating.

cgtombraider
15th Jul 2009, 23:15
Yeah thats not tomb raider looking at all! lol yeah right! The first thing i thought of when i saw it was tomb raider II Ice Palace.

Ants_27_
16th Jul 2009, 07:40
http://www.gametrailers.com/video/exclusive-ice-uncharted-2/52605 and don't complain about the wall run:rasp: wasn't that copied off prince of persia. To me that doesn't remind me of tomb raider, maybe its just me then:scratch:

I love 'em both but uncharted was better than underworld at least (and it was naughty dogs first attempt was it not?). Also, they've never said it was the next tomb raider have they, wouldn't it be classed as third person shooter?

Anyway both are great but I've got more hopes for uncharted 2 than I did for underworld. I can't say story wise (as uncharted 2 is not out!), but Underworld was pretty much the same as legend in a way (like resident evil 4 and 5).

Like I said I love them both but to me I care for the story not whats copied.

naraku
16th Jul 2009, 08:23
http://www.gametrailers.com/video/exclusive-ice-uncharted-2/52605 and don't complain about the wall run:rasp: wasn't that copied off prince of persia. To me that doesn't remind me of tomb raider, maybe its just me then:scratch:

I love 'em both but uncharted was better than underworld at least (and it was naughty dogs first attempt was it not?). Also, they've never said it was the next tomb raider have they, wouldn't it be classed as third person shooter?

Anyway both are great but I've got more hopes for uncharted 2 than I did for underworld. I can't say story wise (as uncharted 2 is not out!), but Underworld was pretty much the same as legend in a way (like resident evil 4 and 5).

Like I said I love them both but to me I care for the story not whats copied.

I can't recall the prince doing the wall run with a rope:scratch:so :rasp:

Ants_27_
16th Jul 2009, 08:29
I can't recall the prince doing the wall run with a rope:scratch:so :rasp:

It did some form of wall run didn't it? I can't remember now:lol: Anyway want I was going on about was (what others have said I think) that all games copy each other now and I think uncharted was copied of Indiana Jones and not tomb raider. If you watch interviews they always refer to Indiana Jones and not tomb raider:confused:

All I want from tomb raider 9 (to make it great) is the camera used in uncharted:thumb:, there wasn't any problem with it. But if the rumors are true that tomb raider 9 will be an open world game doesn't that mean it copied of GTA?

IvanaKC
16th Jul 2009, 09:27
An open world sucks. There is no "replay level" thing which means that I have to play game over and over from the start. That sucks.

Pulse
16th Jul 2009, 12:33
But ND also thinks UDF is better than TR. Yay abbreviations :p

That's dumb to assume. Say Lara Croft and nearly everyone, if not everyone, knows who you're talking about. Say Nathan Drake and a lot of people are like, "Nathan who? Is he that guy that lives down the street?"

jayjay119
16th Jul 2009, 13:04
All I want from tomb raider 9 (to make it great) is the camera used in uncharted:thumb:, there wasn't any problem with it. But if the rumors are true that tomb raider 9 will be an open world game doesn't that mean it copied of GTA?

The free control camera wasn't bad in UDF, that's one of the only things that worked really well, but the mixture of good free camera control and the atrocious fixed camera angles seems to ruin it in my opinion.

However I like the way drake controls, its rather like the hitman series and i think that whilst Hitman needs to evolve its controls they could work well for TR in terms of movement and camera.

The camera is always behind the character by default. Forward forward makes you go forward, back makes you walk backwards, left and right make you strafe in that direction, to go left, you turn the camera left and the character follows. For me its like natural evolution of the original camera system.

Ants_27_
16th Jul 2009, 16:42
However I like the way drake controls, its rather like the hitman series and i think that whilst Hitman needs to evolve its controls they could work well for TR in terms of movement and camera.

True, if uncharted 2 manages to pull off what it did with the first one but at a higher level, like harder puzzles and slightly less linear platforming then I think it could be a real threat to Tomb raider (well, those who have playstation anyway).

What I loved about uncharted (said before I think) was the fact that all the characters seemed more life like (I don't mean in terms of animation). So, if tomb raider adopts the way uncharted tells the story and delivers the characters then it would be better (in my opinion of course:thumb:)

Perhaps it's just me who think this games got a real chance at becoming a proper tomb raider rival.:scratch: I think consoles need another 'tomb raider' type of game besides tomb raider itself, surly that's a good thing?

jayjay119
16th Jul 2009, 17:54
Competition is always a good thing. In the beginning TR had to prove itself, but once it became successful it was th eonly game of its type on the market, I think this has enabled the franchise to become sloppy. No competition means no real need to evolve or put in enormous amounts of effort. Now that UDF is there its got a reason to.

Its not I believe that UDF poses a threat to TR, re-playing UDF1 just confirmed what I thought, the game is more about being a 3rd person shooter, whilst TR is about exploration and atmosphere. I think the 2 franchises, whilst in the same genre are different enough to be great franchises along side each other. Just like TR and PoP were years ago, but now TR needs to prove its as good and as original again!

naraku
19th Jul 2009, 06:38
It did some form of wall run didn't it? I can't remember now:lol: Anyway want I was going on about was (what others have said I think) that all games copy each other now and I think uncharted was copied of Indiana Jones and not tomb raider. If you watch interviews they always refer to Indiana Jones and not tomb raider:confused:

All I want from tomb raider 9 (to make it great) is the camera used in uncharted:thumb:, there wasn't any problem with it. But if the rumors are true that tomb raider 9 will be an open world game doesn't that mean it copied of GTA?

Well had Toby gotten his way Tomb Raider would have been an Indiana carbon copy, and would have predated Drake as a male in the genre or perhaps would have forced Naughty Dog to go the female route.

lilhanhan
19th Jul 2009, 11:23
But ND also thinks UDF is better than TR. Yay abbreviations :p

That's dumb to assume. Say Lara Croft and nearly everyone, if not everyone, knows who you're talking about. Say Nathan Drake and a lot of people are like, "Nathan who? Is he that guy that lives down the street?"

But Naughty Dog wouldn't say "Well Tomb Raider is a better game than ours.", if they did no one would buy their game! :lol:

They have to big up their game and say how it's better than it's competition; if they didn't, no one would really be interested in it (the same applies to every game and/or product). It's just to help them advertise their game.

Jonesy2
20th Jul 2009, 03:35
Lot of discussion regarding Uncharted vs. Tomb Raider. But I see many people haven't actually played both games.

I have played Uncharted, and I played Underworld (admittedly, the Wii version). Yes, Underworld owes a lot to Tomb Raider in the fact there's shooting, climbing/jumping, and tombraiding. But as others mentioned, the action to jumping/puzzle-solving ratio is flipped from Tomb Raider's. Also, the action portion involves a cover system that give the combat sequences a little more flavor.

What Underworld does well is capture a big, cinematic feel. ND said they wanted to make an updated Indiana Jones movie, in essence, and to some degree they succeeded. They didn't succeed entirely because Drake himself comes off as a bit of a doof -- they wanted to make him a kind of "everyman" goofy hero, but that schtick can get rather thin. Lara Croft, on the other hand, just has a lot more potential as a heroine you'd want to follow the adventures of.

That having been said, Drake comes off as living in a larger world than Lara does. Drake has two sidekicks who come along with him on his adventures, and their interaction is fun, like a tight-knit group of friends or even family, making for a better story. Even Drake's enemies seem to have a little more going for them in terms of how they interact with Drake than Lara's enemies sometimes do. The world of Uncharted is a fun one, and it doesn't rely entirely on the mythical/mystical element to hold your attention.

Uncharted 2 looks like it will push the envelope in terms of what the first game accomplished. Exciting, lots of explosions and noise, etc. I know many here don't like that so much. But like it or not, I think the Tomb Raider series will be compared to Uncharted from here on out, unless Tomb Raider takes a drastically different course and cedes the ground to Uncharted altogether. While Tomb Raider should definitely try to stay its own thing, I think it should at least take inspiration from ND in the sense they are really trying to open up what this type of game can do, even if they didn't do anything completely original.

And as for Drake not being as name-recognized as Lara Croft -- I don't think that's a fair comparison. Drake has had one game so far, Lara's had quite a few. But they are trying to make Uncharted into a feature film, so even here things might change...

naraku
20th Jul 2009, 07:21
Lot of discussion regarding Uncharted vs. Tomb Raider. But I see many people haven't actually played both games.

I have played Uncharted, and I played Underworld (admittedly, the Wii version). Yes, Underworld owes a lot to Tomb Raider in the fact there's shooting, climbing/jumping, and tombraiding. But as others mentioned, the action to jumping/puzzle-solving ratio is flipped from Tomb Raider's. Also, the action portion involves a cover system that give the combat sequences a little more flavor.

What Underworld does well is capture a big, cinematic feel. ND said they wanted to make an updated Indiana Jones movie, in essence, and to some degree they succeeded. They didn't succeed entirely because Drake himself comes off as a bit of a doof -- they wanted to make him a kind of "everyman" goofy hero, but that schtick can get rather thin. Lara Croft, on the other hand, just has a lot more potential as a heroine you'd want to follow the adventures of.

That having been said, Drake comes off as living in a larger world than Lara does. Drake has two sidekicks who come along with him on his adventures, and their interaction is fun, like a tight-knit group of friends or even family, making for a better story. Even Drake's enemies seem to have a little more going for them in terms of how they interact with Drake than Lara's enemies sometimes do. The world of Uncharted is a fun one, and it doesn't rely entirely on the mythical/mystical element to hold your attention.

Uncharted 2 looks like it will push the envelope in terms of what the first game accomplished. Exciting, lots of explosions and noise, etc. I know many here don't like that so much. But like it or not, I think the Tomb Raider series will be compared to Uncharted from here on out, unless Tomb Raider takes a drastically different course and cedes the ground to Uncharted altogether. While Tomb Raider should definitely try to stay its own thing, I think it should at least take inspiration from ND in the sense they are really trying to open up what this type of game can do, even if they didn't do anything completely original.

And as for Drake not being as name-recognized as Lara Croft -- I don't think that's a fair comparison. Drake has had one game so far, Lara's had quite a few. But they are trying to make Uncharted into a feature film, so even here things might change...
Well Jonesy2, I like to first welcome you to these forums, since I believe we haven't met in a formal discussion.

I and a few others like Josh and Jurre have actually played both on the same platform too. No offense but the Wii version from what some here have said, stinks out loud. To compare Uncharted with the Wii version of Underworld is like comparing onions to apples.

I like both and think they have individual charms. Uncharted though is the fundamentalist of the two, kinda like grass roots action adventure. Whereas Tomb Raider by many seems old and played out especially by casual gamers. What Uncharted is doing now seems new, fresh and exiting but it actually isn't. Naughty dog is just doing what Eidos did with TR with it's first two titles and it was received the same way, new, fresh.

They are two halves of the same coin

Jonesy2
20th Jul 2009, 12:09
Naughty dog is just doing what Eidos did with TR with it's first two titles and it was received the same way, new, fresh.

If that's true then maybe Tomb Raider needs to "get back to its roots?" After all, it was the first two games that made Lara Croft an icon.

Naughty Dog has definitely not reinvented the wheel with Uncharted -- there's nothing in the game that Tomb Raider didn't originate or at least do before Uncharted did (aside from a cover system) -- but I think Uncharted succeeds because ND pushed the quality to a new level, especially when it comes to story and dialogue.

Because of their efforts ND can actually push story as one of the selling points of the game, whereas I personally think Underworld didn't just cut the story to the bone, but went past that point to such a degree the story feel unsatisfying at its conclusion. Uncharted, even if it felt "predictable" to some people here, didn't skimp on giving you the whole story. As a result, I'm looking forward to the next adventure, to see what happens to Drake and his friends.

Lara, ironically enough, kind of feels like she's still trapped in a sort of limbo after "Underworld," in terms of where does her character go from here? Consequently, I feel just a little dread in terms of what her next game will be like, and I think a lot of other people do too.

Thanks for the welcome, by the way! I actually used to post here as Jonesy, but somehow I lost my password and for whatever reason I can't get it emailed to me.

Ants_27_
20th Jul 2009, 15:21
Naughty Dog has definitely not reinvented the wheel with Uncharted -- there's nothing in the game that Tomb Raider didn't originate or at least do before Uncharted did (aside from a cover system) -- but I think Uncharted succeeds because ND pushed the quality to a new level, especially when it comes to story and dialogue.

True and the -connection?- in Uncharted (between the characters that is) is a whole lot better than what Tomb Raider Underworld offered. I don't necessarily mean the story but between the voice actors. I'm just weird probably!:nut:

Jonesy2
20th Jul 2009, 15:45
True and the -connection?- in Uncharted (between the characters that is) is a whole lot better than what Tomb Raider Underworld offered. I don't necessarily mean the story but between the voice actors. I'm just weird probably!:nut:

No, that makes sense. I think the interaction is better because the voice actors in Uncharted didn't just sit in front of a microphone and read their lines, with no one to interact with (that's how most voice work is done). ND actually had the actors act out their scenes, recording their voices and doing motion capture at the same time. It is extra work, but it makes for an overall better quality game.

chriss_99
20th Jul 2009, 15:50
I don't think that would be necessary in Tomb Raider. Keeley Hawes is doing an amazing job as Lara Croft voice actress. She is very proffesional. I'd say she's the best voice actress in TR series. I wonder who will be the new Lara Croft.:scratch:

Jonesy2
20th Jul 2009, 16:09
I don't think that would be necessary in Tomb Raider. Keeley Hawes is doing an amazing job as Lara Croft voice actress. She is very proffesional. I'd say she's the best voice actress in TR series. I wonder who will be the new Lara Croft.:scratch:

Maybe it's not strictly necessary, but it does lead to better and more natural interaction when the actors are actually able to talk to each other, as opposed to just imagining the scenes separately, on their own.

It may seem like a small thing, but ND paid attention to details like that, and the cumulative effect was that people noticed, and many of them were impressed.

josh1122
20th Jul 2009, 16:30
Maybe it's not strictly necessary, but it does lead to better and more natural interaction when the actors are actually able to talk to each other, as opposed to just imagining the scenes separately, on their own.

It may seem like a small thing, but ND paid attention to details like that, and the cumulative effect was that people noticed, and many of them were impressed.

I disagree, voice acting in ND was more an annoyance than it was a pleasure to myself. Lines felt like they were forced and little punch lines felt like they were pushed at you to try to make you laugh. It didn't work for me at all, just one of the many reasons that game failed miserably, to me personally

jayjay119
20th Jul 2009, 16:38
I agree, all the dialogue was corny, I am getting increasingly tired or Drake complaining about every damn thing he has to do, If he doesn't wanna do it then why is he?

Plus there is an unnecessary overendulgance in the level of profanity in UDF! In some places its not even needed. I agree with whoever said ND isn't doing anything new with uncharted. Everything there has already been done, the reason it is so succesful is because it is a generic 3rd person shooter to please the casual gamers. Tr is really a specialist type game... thats why many casual gamers don't like it. Its not just pointing a gun n shooting for 8 hours!

josh1122
20th Jul 2009, 16:49
the reason it is so succesful is because it is a generic 3rd person shooter... just pointing a gun n shooting for 8 hours!

Pretty much the nail on the head

Jonesy2
20th Jul 2009, 16:59
I agree, all the dialogue was corny, I am getting increasingly tired or Drake complaining about every damn thing he has to do, If he doesn't wanna do it then why is he?

Plus there is an unnecessary overendulgance in the level of profanity in UDF! In some places its not even needed. I agree with whoever said ND isn't doing anything new with uncharted. Everything there has already been done, the reason it is so succesful is because it is a generic 3rd person shooter to please the casual gamers.

I have to disagree. You can certainly disagree with the style and atmosphere of the game (and I have some issues with the whole Drake character, myself) but even so it's obvious ND put some serious, quality work into their effort. It shows, and it translates to an enjoyable gaming experience for many people who are now eagerly awaiting the next game.

I would like to see the next Tomb Raider game be that ambitious, in terms of a quality effort, in terms of getting that cinematic feel. Actually, Tomb Raider has the potential to do it better than ND.

josh1122
20th Jul 2009, 18:22
I have to disagree. You can certainly disagree with the style and atmosphere of the game (and I have some issues with the whole Drake character, myself) but even so it's obvious ND put some serious, quality work into their effort. It shows, and it translates to an enjoyable gaming experience for many people who are now eagerly awaiting the next game.

I would like to see the next Tomb Raider game be that ambitious, in terms of a quality effort, in terms of getting that cinematic feel. Actually, Tomb Raider has the potential to do it better than ND.

It's just jays personal perspective on the game, I share the same sentiments he does for the most part. With the information that is out about TR9, I wouldn't get your hopes up or I won't even get mine up for them to even surpass TRU with the next game, let alone a generic third person shooter.

Jonesy2
21st Jul 2009, 01:03
I'm willing to keep an open mind. I'm probably not as wedded to the "traditional" approach to Tomb Raider as I suspect you and many other fans are.

josh1122
21st Jul 2009, 01:25
I'm willing to keep an open mind. I'm probably not as wedded to the "traditional" approach to Tomb Raider as I suspect you and many other fans are.

Yeah and I'm not as high strung on third person generic shooters,such as yourself either. It is what it is basically. Different opinions from different people

pinpal
21st Jul 2009, 04:01
I don't really care

jayjay119
21st Jul 2009, 12:26
I have to disagree. You can certainly disagree with the style and atmosphere of the game (and I have some issues with the whole Drake character, myself) but even so it's obvious ND put some serious, quality work into their effort. It shows, and it translates to an enjoyable gaming experience for many people who are now eagerly awaiting the next game.

I would like to see the next Tomb Raider game be that ambitious, in terms of a quality effort, in terms of getting that cinematic feel. Actually, Tomb Raider has the potential to do it better than ND.

I don't deny that ND put a lot of care and effort into UDF, and that is something that CD need to do for the next TR. But that wasn't really the issue. Just because the developer put a lot of effort into the game doesn't automatically make it a hit. Example, Core put a lot of care and effort into AOD. The point is the reason why UDF is popular is because it plays safe. Its a generic 3rd person shooter which are popular now. Anything that derives from that are features that were successful in other games, the platforming from TR and PoP, the camera from Hitman, the cover system (which doesn't really work) etc. Nothing about UDF is original. TR has the potential to be original just like it did years ago. UDF sadly doesn't. I'll buy the sequel but i'm not expecting major advancements from the first installment to be honest!

Jinnyskeans
22nd Jul 2009, 00:00
i like both games, obviously 1 more than the other
have a guess at which ones forum im sighned up too.

now Uncharted 1 is a good game and i dont think they play the same at all
i can see the similarities and the differences

pinkyXstary
22nd Jul 2009, 00:58
I think a lot of the problem is exactly the same as what happens to certain personality's of people. For example.... Those are a nice pair of red shoes i want a pair.... but im going to put glitter on mine so they look nicer!

(really lame example... i know.... bear with me!)

So many idea's have bounced around, been tried, failed and suceeded, it's going to be very hard to find one game in the entire world (even old school system games) that aren't very similar.

I think uncharted started off VERY TR but then swayed slightly by throwing in HUUUUGE amounts of shooting, making it feel purely like an action game with no adventure what so ever.

I find things very hard to put into words, but i try and explain what i mean lol!

I myself own uncharted but it didn't interest me in the slightest, it tried to be the male equivilant of TR but just couldn't do it.

Jonesy2
22nd Jul 2009, 01:05
Playing Uncharted certainly doesn't feel like playing a Tomb Raider clone. I think it stands out from being a "generic third person shooter," because whether you liked it or not, they paid attention to story, the world and the characters. That was enough to make it feel "fresh" whereas if a poorer quality game had been produced, the rip-off factor would have been glaring.

Also, the game played well, a smooth experience. I don't recall any problems with the cover system myself, and I don't recall being frustrated by glitches or problems with the interface.

Golden Laurel
22nd Jul 2009, 05:11
For the people who argued that Tr and Udf are nothing alike,... well have a look:

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/exclusive-ice-uncharted-2/52604#comments_top

I think it pretty much speaks for itself... one thing though, do you notice that ND advertises the game by just showing actual gameplay? Not by showing fabricated scenes with trolls on a bridge that don't occur in the actual game?

Why is it that tomb raider fans cant also like uncharted? Im a huge Tomb raider fan, and like the uncharted sereis aswell. BECAUSE it reminds me of tomb raider. it dosnt replace tomb raider, but i still think its a decent game with some good gameplay.

Im actualy looking forward to this game, mainley because itll keep me entertained untill TRO comes out and some of the enviornments look pretty cool too, and remind me soo much of TR.

josh1122
22nd Jul 2009, 05:39
Playing Uncharted certainly doesn't feel like playing a Tomb Raider clone. I think it stands out from being a "generic third person shooter," because whether you liked it or not, they paid attention to story, the world and the characters. That was enough to make it feel "fresh" whereas if a poorer quality game had been produced, the rip-off factor would have been glaring.

Also, the game played well, a smooth experience. I don't recall any problems with the cover system myself, and I don't recall being frustrated by glitches or problems with the interface.


I disagree, It didn't stand out at all from being lumped into the regular ol category of ''generic third person shooter''. Also your comment ''whether you like it or not,they paid attention to the story,the world and characters''. No, you treat that as a fact when it isn't, this is your opinion on that matter, as mine is completely opposite of what you think.

I agree the game seemed to play smooth, but it wasn't enough or even close to enough to save it for me. I'm waiting on the second one to give it a rent to see if its even worse than the first or slightly better. Judging from the multiplayer beta(if thats like solo), It's pretty much the same thing

@Golden Laurel: TR fans can like ND and ND fans can like TR, there's no law against it, its just that fanboyism gets in the way of doing so, I won't name any names but they know who they are lol

naraku
22nd Jul 2009, 06:55
If that's true then maybe Tomb Raider needs to "get back to its roots?" After all, it was the first two games that made Lara Croft an icon.

Naughty Dog has definitely not reinvented the wheel with Uncharted -- there's nothing in the game that Tomb Raider didn't originate or at least do before Uncharted did (aside from a cover system) -- but I think Uncharted succeeds because ND pushed the quality to a new level, especially when it comes to story and dialogue.

Because of their efforts ND can actually push story as one of the selling points of the game, whereas I personally think Underworld didn't just cut the story to the bone, but went past that point to such a degree the story feel unsatisfying at its conclusion. Uncharted, even if it felt "predictable" to some people here, didn't skimp on giving you the whole story. As a result, I'm looking forward to the next adventure, to see what happens to Drake and his friends.

Lara, ironically enough, kind of feels like she's still trapped in a sort of limbo after "Underworld," in terms of where does her character go from here? Consequently, I feel just a little dread in terms of what her next game will be like, and I think a lot of other people do too.

Thanks for the welcome, by the way! I actually used to post here as Jonesy, but somehow I lost my password and for whatever reason I can't get it emailed to me.
That's what I've been saying since I finished playing UDF. Tomb Raider needs to go back to it' roots. That doesn't mean control wise or graphics wise either.

However I think Underworld was half way there, sadly it had to be trimmed to the bone with respects to story. But no one seems to be doing that. So it's a first...... Oh wait, I forgot about Assassins Creed:mad2: that game!!!!!

Drake used lots of profanity and there was some smoking in game and still managed a Teen rating. And yet Lara has to make due with bouncing off spikes. That's just not fair. :eek: Now allegedly TR9 is getting an M rating and it's survival horror?!!!! :mad2:

In all honesty, there are times in a TR games where I'd excuse Lara mouthing off a bit. I wouldn't mind. If fact I'd prefer it, to me doing it. :lol:Alas, Lara is known for her nonchalance, in her core days mind you. :whistle:

So Drake is among thieves and making no apologies about it, sounds nice, and where is our lovely Lara Croft taking us? Japan, allegedly.

Again gotta give props to ND for execution. Grass roots action adventure, :thumb:. I wish I could say that about Lara with TR9.

I'm sure TR9 with supposed origin story, will have nothing to do with her folks death and have a ridicules reason for being in Japan. That is not the way it should be done.

I for one wouldn't mind another reboot, as long as it was finally done right. Something untethered, new and fresh. Or at least something we haven't seen yet.

jayjay119
22nd Jul 2009, 13:14
Playing Uncharted certainly doesn't feel like playing a Tomb Raider clone. I think it stands out from being a "generic third person shooter," because whether you liked it or not, they paid attention to story, the world and the characters. That was enough to make it feel "fresh" whereas if a poorer quality game had been produced, the rip-off factor would have been glaring.

Also, the game played well, a smooth experience. I don't recall any problems with the cover system myself, and I don't recall being frustrated by glitches or problems with the interface.

I disagree, story doesn't detract from anything. If a game has a good story which UDF did then its gets praise for that but gameplay and story are always assessed as two separate things whether people like it or not. Legend had a great story but that didn't detract from the fact that is was a 'generic 3rd person shooter' any game that is 90% shooting has to be classed this way. UDF is no different. Plus the cover system is not as revolutionary as people are saying, in fact it stinks. People can hit you when you are behind cover and the process of going behind and out of cover is clunky because the cover button is on the same button as roll. I think TR aught to implement a cover system in the next game but give it its own button and base it on a system that actually works, I favor the system used in GTA4. It was fluid and worked. Plus for a shooter UDF needs to work on it calibration and realism. Shooting someone anywhere but in the face in UDF doesn't seem to kill them in less that 3 shots, even though every merc is wearing nothing but a vest!


Why is it that tomb raider fans cant also like uncharted? Im a huge Tomb raider fan, and like the uncharted sereis aswell. BECAUSE it reminds me of tomb raider. it dosnt replace tomb raider, but i still think its a decent game with some good gameplay.

Like Josh says TR fans can also like UDF but the fanboy-ism is making it nearly impossible, as games go it was ok, it could to with a few improvements but it had a good story. I will buy the next one to see if the problems from the first have been remedied and to see about the story and to see if they add depth to Drake's character, as it stands he's abit shallow and dry! However i'm not exactly anticipating it as much as I would with other games.


I disagree, It didn't stand out at all from being lumped into the regular ol category of ''generic third person shooter''. Also your comment ''whether you like it or not,they paid attention to the story,the world and characters''. No, you treat that as a fact when it isn't, this is your opinion on that matter, as mine is completely opposite of what you think.

I agree the game seemed to play smooth, but it wasn't enough or even close to enough to save it for me.

Seconded.

Jonesy2
22nd Jul 2009, 13:41
I disagree, It didn't stand out at all from being lumped into the regular ol category of ''generic third person shooter''. Also your comment ''whether you like it or not,they paid attention to the story,the world and characters''. No, you treat that as a fact when it isn't, this is your opinion on that matter, as mine is completely opposite of what you think.


Whether or not you liked the story is certainly subject to your personal opinion. Whether or not the game achieved a certain level of professionalism in terms of story presentation is not. Uncharted certainly had a more developed story than Underworld did, that should not be a subject for debate, because Underworld's story was so abbreviated and not fleshed out.

I disagree with the attempt to dismiss Uncharted as a "generic third person shooter." Generic, by definition, means it doesn't stand out. But Uncharted is considered one of the best games on the PS3, has a widely anticipated sequel that won several awards at this year's E3, and has a movie in the works (granted, the fact Sony is involved probably has a lot to do with that).

I do find it odd that you fault Uncharted for not "breaking the mold" or coming up with something truly innovative, while at the same time preferring that Tomb Raider not do anything innovative itself, but stay at its core the same game it was when it first appeared. Saying "we did it first, so we don't have to change" doesn't really work, especially not in the marketplace. There shouldn't be a double standard.

jayjay119
22nd Jul 2009, 14:35
Whether or not you liked the story is certainly subject to your personal opinion. Whether or not the game achieved a certain level of professionalism in terms of story presentation is not. Uncharted certainly had a more developed story than Underworld did, that should not be a subject for debate, because Underworld's story was so abbreviated and not fleshed out.

I disagree with the attempt to dismiss Uncharted as a "generic third person shooter." Generic, by definition, means it doesn't stand out. But Uncharted is considered one of the best games on the PS3, has a widely anticipated sequel that won several awards at this year's E3, and has a movie in the works (granted, the fact Sony is involved probably has a lot to do with that).

I do find it odd that you fault Uncharted for not "breaking the mold" or coming up with something truly innovative, while at the same time preferring that Tomb Raider not do anything innovative itself, but stay at its core the same game it was when it first appeared. Saying "we did it first, so we don't have to change" doesn't really work, especially not in the marketplace. There shouldn't be a double standard.

I agree with you about TRU's story but just to say that because it is one of the best games on PS3 stops it being generic is a falsity. Like I said before there is classifications. Generic games as a whole that don't stand out and UDF does, or did. Its not hard to be the best game on PS3 when its a 1st party development and when there is very few games. Within terms of genre, in the 3rd person shooter market there is little to nothing original there. Plus put it on 360 which it the favoured platform for shooters and it may have made it to the 'best on game on 360' title, but there is a lot more competition there than on PS3 . The fact that UDF is getting a movie isn't really saying much these days, with the abundance of decent writers in Hollywood these days virtually every game that a studio can get a contract for is getting a movie, despite popularity, this along with remakes.

Also it's not about saying 'we don't have to change' the majority of people who preserve their preference of Tr over UDF have openly said the series needs some sort of change. But the problem comes when UDF fan boys are saying how much more inventive UDF, a starting franchise with one (released) game that took everything it does from other games, is better than TR which is a 14 year strong franchise, that did do something original when it was made... The fact that there needs to be change now doesn't affect that.

josh1122
22nd Jul 2009, 15:07
Whether or not you liked the story is certainly subject to your personal opinion. Whether or not the game achieved a certain level of professionalism in terms of story presentation is not. Uncharted certainly had a more developed story than Underworld did, that should not be a subject for debate, because Underworld's story was so abbreviated and not fleshed out.

I disagree with the attempt to dismiss Uncharted as a "generic third person shooter." Generic, by definition, means it doesn't stand out. But Uncharted is considered one of the best games on the PS3, has a widely anticipated sequel that won several awards at this year's E3, and has a movie in the works (granted, the fact Sony is involved probably has a lot to do with that).

I do find it odd that you fault Uncharted for not "breaking the mold" or coming up with something truly innovative, while at the same time preferring that Tomb Raider not do anything innovative itself, but stay at its core the same game it was when it first appeared. Saying "we did it first, so we don't have to change" doesn't really work, especially not in the marketplace. There shouldn't be a double standard.

Again I totally disagree with you. Again I state, the only reason ND is taking off like it has is because its a pretty graphic 3PS(thanks jay). There's no denying that, it offers nothing new than what you would find in any other 3PS besides nice graphics(which was one of the main praises for the game,not its game play). You seem to only want to bash Underworld or compare this to TR in general. I'm not trying to play a favors game here like you are, I can go on about things that were bad in Underworld as well,however you seem to think ND was perfect, thats where I disagree greatly with you on.

There isn't one thing in Uncharted that put it ahead of any standard 3PS other than graphically it was far better and anyone who knows anything knows graphics do not make a game.(I'm looking at you KZ2)

Your also starting to grasp for straws to try to make an argument,which is silly. When have I ever said ''keep TR the same, don't innovate anything''(unless your talking about fans in general and not a personal address to me). Oh that's right I never did,that has been your own misinterpretation. So like I said stop grasping for straws to keep up an argument or rather disagreement on the whole ''ND vs TR'' that fans seem to do, which is pointless. That's why fanboyism is annoying on all grounds

I pretty much concur with what Jay just stated above

Jonesy2
22nd Jul 2009, 15:10
Who has claimed UDF is more "inventive?" That sir, is a canard. The only thing I've seen argued here is that UDF was a more polished game.

Just because UDF is a competitor to TR, doesn't mean we can't at least grudgingly give it the respect it deserves. The game is not terrible, by any stretch of the imagination, in the eyes of most gamers.

And I hope you're not calling me a UDF fanboy. Let's keep the name calling and ad hominem attacks out of this.

josh1122
22nd Jul 2009, 15:15
Who has claimed UDF is more "inventive?" That sir, is a canard. The only thing I've seen argued here is that UDF was a more polished game.

Just because UDF is a competitor to TR, doesn't mean we can't at least grudgingly give it the respect it deserves. The game is not terrible, by any stretch of the imagination, in the eyes of most gamers.

And I hope you're not calling me a UDF fanboy. Let's keep the name calling and ad hominem attacks out of this.


It's all a matter of opinion jonesy and you have to live with that and respect that. You like UDF, I do not. I did not like the game other than its pretty graphics, so why should I give something respect in which I do not like? That makes zero sense.

That's like me saying I respect Nazi's,while not in the same category or as bad, you get my point.

It's also just like Jay said, put UDF on 360(which has more of a controller for shooter games) and it would be a best selling 360 title. That's how it is with 3PS or shooters in general

But I don't care who competes with who or if fanboys fight about whos better UDF or TR. I believe those people are idiots that do that and need to grow up. However I like what I like and I dislike what I dislike and in this case its UDF. That's just how it is

jayjay119
22nd Jul 2009, 15:26
I personally am not calling uncharted terrible. I bought it recently to re-familiarize myself with it and to see if I was too harsh on it the first time round. The story in the game is good, the environments are good, the controls are good. I wouldn't even have a problem with the amount of shooting in the game, because that is how the franchise was designed to be but for the faults that I personally find. Such as the poor cover system, you say you have found no problems with it but I find it can occasionally offer little cover. When drake aims and goes back behind cover he does not go back the place you were aiming at when you ducked, which other (to me more successful cover systems like GTA4's/ Resident Evil 5's do. Add this to the fact that the shots are unrealistic and the enemies can move faster than Drake can aim, it just makes for frustrating gameplay.

However this is not my main annoyance, i appreciate games have flaws and that's why i'm getting UDF2 to see if they have been fixes... everyone deserves a second chance and that. No, like Josh my main problem is the fanboy-ism (not calling you personally Joney) that claims UDF is more successful and innovative than TR. I appreciate both franchises for their own merits.

Jonesy2
22nd Jul 2009, 15:29
It's all a matter of opinion jonesy and you have to live with that and respect that. You like UDF, I do not. I did not like the game other than its pretty graphics, so why should I give something respect in which I do not like? That makes zero sense.

That's like me saying I respect Nazi's,while not in the same category or as bad, you get my point.

It's also just like Jay said, put UDF on 360(which has more of a controller for shooter games) and it would be a best selling 360 title. That's how it is with 3PS or shooters in general

But I don't care who competes with who or if fanboys fight about whos better UDF or TR. I believe those people are idiots that do that and need to grow up. However I like what I like and I dislike what I dislike and in this case its UDF. That's just how it is

You keep saying, "it's all a matter of opinion, it's all a matter of opinion." Well of course it is (well, most of it, anyway)! But it's okay to debate these matters nonetheless.

I do not believe your Nazi analogy works, unless you are claiming that Uncharted is actually evil, which would be a sign of excessive loyalty to TR on your part. And did you really need to confirm Godwin's law?

It's easy to claim UDF wouldn't sell well on the 360, when we'll never see it on the 360. I suspect the truth might be otherwise. Since our conclusions regarding that matter are completely dependent on how we feel toward the game, any assessment in this area really does not work as evidence to back up either point of view, as it's not independent of that point of view.

josh1122
22nd Jul 2009, 15:38
You keep saying, "it's all a matter of opinion, it's all a matter of opinion." Well of course it is (well, most of it, anyway)! But it's okay to debate these matters nonetheless.

I do not believe your Nazi analogy works, unless you are claiming that Uncharted is actually evil, which would be a sign of excessive loyalty to TR on your part. And did you really need to confirm Godwin's law?

It's easy to claim UDF wouldn't sell well on the 360, when we'll never see it on the 360. I suspect the truth might be otherwise. Since our conclusions regarding that matter are completely dependent on how we feel toward the game, any assessment in this area really does not work as evidence to back up either point of view, as it's not independent of that point of view.

See your taking everything too literal(nazi thing) just to keep an argument going(if that was your intention,correct me if im wrong). But like you stated above and I keep stating, whether you personally like it or not(which I believe you'll never agree on) It is a matter of opinion with whatever you personally say and whatever I say. Nothing either of us say should be taken as a truth because what we both are spewing here is personal opinions on all matters,nothing more and nothing less.

I never said UDF WOULDNT sell on the 360, please go back and read what myself and jay have stated before saying such things. We both stated it WOULD sell on the 360 and just like the PS3, It would be a ''best selling title'',why? because its a 3PS, so it would sell well on both consoles. It's something myself and Jay have been going on about for quite a few posts and making a point about shooters/3PS in general

Again go back and please read what myself and Jay have been stating, so no more misinterpretations occur

Jonesy2
22nd Jul 2009, 15:55
Again go back and please read what myself and Jay have been stating, so no more misinterpretations occur

Perhaps I misread earlier posts. But it appears earlier posts have also been edited, so I can't say for sure whether I misremembered earlier points of this conversation.

At any rate, if we all agree Uncharted would do well on the 360, I think the criticism that UDF is a "generic"game is unwarranted. On a platform with more titles like the 360, a "generic" game should sink like a stone, certainly. I believe a generic game would sink like a stone on the PS3 as well, however. Certainly it would not get the kind of acclaim it has.

josh1122
22nd Jul 2009, 15:59
Perhaps I misread earlier posts. But it appears earlier posts have also been edited, so I can't say for sure whether I misremembered earlier points of this conversation.

At any rate, if we all agree Uncharted would do well on the 360, I think the criticism that UDF is a "generic"game is unwarranted. On a platform with more titles like the 360, a "generic" game should sink like a stone, certainly. I believe a generic game would sink like a stone on the PS3 as well, however. Certainly it would not get the kind of acclaim it has.

It would sell well because its your every day generic 3PS. As stated many times, that's the genre that's widely popular right now and people are focused on pretty graphics and not having to do anything but point a gun for 8hrs. It's just how this current gen is right now.

Back in the 90's when Tomb Raider was popular, you could've put it on Sega Saturn(it was there originally) and it would've been a seller as well. I used that example all ready to some extent but again you get the picture ( I assume). Whatever is the most popular genre, that's what is going to sell,generic or not. It's the way it is

Every generation has its genre, this one is every day run of the mil shooters. One thing I do PRAISE UDF on it stayed away from the usual 3PS and FPS color scheme of black,brown and greys only

Jonesy2
22nd Jul 2009, 16:24
It would sell well because its your every day generic 3PS. As stated many times, that's the genre that's widely popular right now and people are focused on pretty graphics and not having to do anything but point a gun for 8hrs. It's just how this current gen is right now.

Back in the 90's when Tomb Raider was popular, you could've put it on Sega Saturn(it was there originally) and it would've been a seller as well. I used that example all ready to some extent but again you get the picture ( I assume). Whatever is the most popular genre, that's what is going to sell,generic or not. It's the way it is

Every generation has its genre, this one is every day run of the mil shooters. One thing I do PRAISE UDF on it stayed away from the usual 3PS and FPS color scheme of black,brown and greys only

I think it's unfair and a bit condescending to take the attitude, "Oh, those mouth breathing casual gamers. They'll eat up any hunk of junk that's a third person shooter, you know. Lacking in brains and sophistication, they are."

Now I know what you're going to say -- that's your opinion. And you are certainly entitled to it.

I just felt the need to express that I disagree with that point of view. Third person shooters are not so revolutionary, like first person shooters were right after Doom, that people are buying them up just for the sake of getting more. Quality still counts.

josh1122
22nd Jul 2009, 17:06
I think it's unfair and a bit condescending to take the attitude, "Oh, those mouth breathing casual gamers. They'll eat up any hunk of junk that's a third person shooter, you know. Lacking in brains and sophistication, they are."

Now I know what you're going to say -- that's your opinion. And you are certainly entitled to it.

I just felt the need to express that I disagree with that point of view. Third person shooters are not so revolutionary, like first person shooters were right after Doom, that people are buying them up just for the sake of getting more. Quality still counts.

Again your just spouting off nonsense. When have I ever stated what you said in your first paragraph. Once again you keep making up your own lines and putting them as something that is actually said, again grasping for straws.

It's fine that your expressing your disagreement, that's the whole point going on here. We don't agree on the same thing were talking about that and there is nothing wrong with that either. We agree to disagree

Jonesy2
22nd Jul 2009, 19:28
Just out of curiosity, will you support the next Tomb Raider game if it is an open world environment? And is it safe to presume you would dump TR if it became more like UDF?

a_big_house
22nd Jul 2009, 19:55
:-O WOOH its like tombraider only better!!!...*cough* lol is it gonna be on xbox 360 cuz i soo want that although it is sorta copying every detail of nepal so please pm me the answer to my question plzzz :-D xbox 360 version of it?

Ants_27_
22nd Jul 2009, 20:09
:-O WOOH its like tombraider only better!!!...*cough* lol is it gonna be on xbox 360 cuz i soo want that although it is sorta copying every detail of nepal so please pm me the answer to my question plzzz :-D xbox 360 version of it?

Plain and simple no. Naughty dog created crash bandicoot and what not and are one of Sony 1st party developers are they not? So, Sony are it's publishers (like eidos to Crystal), for some reason I am doubting myself in that statment:lol:. I'm not 100% on that but the likely hood of a naughty dog game going multi-platform is very, very slim.:nut:

It's like games such as heavy rain, GOW (God of War), Killzone e.c.t I doubt they'll go to PC or 360 or wii because aren't all of Playstation franchises all developed by Sony's 1st party developers? (Well apart from MGS 4). Just like Alan Wake won't got to Playstation, or it's highly unlikely.

Jonesy2
22nd Jul 2009, 20:25
I think Sony actually owns Naughty Dog, so no, no Uncharted for the 360.

josh1122
22nd Jul 2009, 21:27
I think Sony actually owns Naughty Dog, so no, no Uncharted for the 360.

Yeah I'm pretty sure thats the case and also everyone goes to love Crash Bandicoot though!

I just hope the crying for UDF doesn't get as bad as the people whining over wanting MGS 4 ported to 360 lol

@jonsey: sorry didnt see your comment before but I think Open World for TR, which I've stated many times is the only good thing I've heard about TR 9 so far and yes if it became like UDF id probably dump it. There's a fine line between keeping what makes TR a TR game and upgrading the franchise.

CD needs to find a way to keep the platforming,puzzles,sense of exploration to keep the TR feel but they also need to upgrade some things so that it feels new and fresh as well. A tough task and honestly I do not think they can do it.

pinkyXstary
22nd Jul 2009, 21:29
I just hope the crying for UDF doesn't get as bad as the people whining over wanting MGS 4 ported to 360 lol

I second that!

jayjay119
22nd Jul 2009, 21:52
CD needs to find a way to keep the platforming,puzzles,sense of exploration to keep the TR feel but they also need to upgrade some things so that it feels new and fresh as well. A tough task and honestly I do not think they can do it.

I sorta feel the same way, after TRU was announced as failing to meet expectations I thought we were going to see another studio take over again. Maybe that would be a good thing maybe it wouldn't. At the moment with Eidos getting a new bigger budget and CD getting a reshuffle into a smaller unit I'm keen to see what they can do.

Jonesy2
22nd Jul 2009, 21:52
I am also thinking they shouldn't go for the Uncharted route now. If they had done it before Naughty Dog, following the exciting route taken by Legend, I think it would have worked. Now TR would just be in a position of being compared to Uncharted 2, in terms of graphics, multiplayer, etc, and I think that's just a setup for overly critical reviews.

Maybe open world will work. It certainly suggests an emphasis on exploration, although it also implies meaningless combat with no goal beyond gaining experience points to unlock new combat moves.

jayjay119
22nd Jul 2009, 21:55
but does it really matter why the combat is there as long as it works? There's really only one goal that combat serves anyway and that is the temporary halting of progression. Which as long as it does its becomes meaningful!

Jonesy2
22nd Jul 2009, 22:18
It matters to me. If I need to get to the temple in order to save the world, and some goons are in the way, that fight is meaningful and the stakes are clear. If I'm just roaming around the island and the same nondescript band of thugs keep popping up for no good reason other than they want to eat my brains, that's tiresome.

josh1122
22nd Jul 2009, 23:04
Were just going to be fighting with a bow anyway so it won't be very meaningful and will be tiresome

naraku
23rd Jul 2009, 03:56
It matters to me. If I need to get to the temple in order to save the world, and some goons are in the way, that fight is meaningful and the stakes are clear. If I'm just roaming around the island and the same nondescript band of thugs keep popping up for no good reason other than they want to eat my brains, that's tiresome.

:lol: That just might be how it will be! *BRAINS*

jayjay119
23rd Jul 2009, 12:50
It matters to me. If I need to get to the temple in order to save the world, and some goons are in the way, that fight is meaningful and the stakes are clear. If I'm just roaming around the island and the same nondescript band of thugs keep popping up for no good reason other than they want to eat my brains, that's tiresome.

Well again, as Josh says its a matter of opinion. For you a band of thugs in the way of a temple you need to go to makes it clear the fight of some meaning. But for me, as it would be anywhere the combat it just a tool to prevent progress in the game and story!

Ants_27_
23rd Jul 2009, 18:34
I second that!

It was funny though:rasp:

Most of the people whining where probably fanboys that just wanted to use it against people who own PS3 and not because they really wanted the greatest game ever (perhaps I shouldn't say that on a tomb raider forum):lol::mad2:

Pulse
23rd Jul 2009, 18:39
How dare you :p

Ants_27_
23rd Jul 2009, 18:52
How dare you :p

:rasp:

a_big_house
23rd Jul 2009, 20:00
aww

jayjay119
23rd Jul 2009, 20:11
It was funny though:rasp:

Most of the people whining where probably fanboys that just wanted to use it against people who own PS3 and not because they really wanted the greatest game ever (perhaps I shouldn't say that on a tomb raider forum):lol::mad2:

Its probably true though!I don't think anyone really expected any MGS to come to 360 considering Kojima's preference for Sony's hardware! Heck I'm still shocked he is porting MGS rising 360!

Ants_27_
24th Jul 2009, 15:45
Its probably true though!I don't think anyone really expected any MGS to come to 360 considering Kojima's preference for Sony's hardware! Heck I'm still shocked he is porting MGS rising 360!


Bold = :eek:

At first I was shocked but then I felt happier knowing it was coming out on ps3:D My problem with it is that Hideo Kojima isn't directing nor writing it (he's only the producer isn't he?). And the team that worked on MGS 4 are working on Peace Walker for PSP and not rising! (at least Hideo Kojima is writing that and directing Peace walker) Besides, everyone hated Raiden up until number 4:lol:

They really love Sony's hardware (every other platform seems to get all the ports:nut:)

Anyway, Uncharted (Keep forgetting to pre-order number 2!:mad2:) is great and so is Tomb Raider but Tomb raider should perhaps consider taking a similar type of melee system! I'm trying to keep on topic. I think comments such as "that's not tomb raider" are stupid (lack of a better word), because if they want to "take control" of games again then they need to have combat and exploration nailed down (my opinion).

jayjay119
24th Jul 2009, 15:52
Bold = :eek:

At first I was shocked but then I felt happier knowing it was coming out on ps3:D My problem with it is that Hideo Kojima isn't directing nor writing it (he's only the producer isn't he?). And the team that worked on MGS 4 are working on Peace Walker for PSP and not rising! (at least Hideo Kojima is writing that and directing Peace walker) Besides, everyone hated Raiden up until number 4:lol:



I feel, for now I have said all i can about the UDF vs TR debate so i'm going back off topic. I never really doubted that it would be on PS3, considering every previous game in the series was on the PS platform primarily I doubted that Kojima was gonna turn round and exclude the entire fan base he has built up. Knowing MGS and Kojima the game will be built on PS3 and ported to 360. Also Kojima says he will be less involved with this game, but then again he was less involved with MGS3 than 1,2 or 4 and that was still a masterpiece.

Ants_27_
24th Jul 2009, 16:02
I feel, for now I have said all i can about the UDF vs TR debate so i'm going back off topic. I never really doubted that it would be on PS3, considering every previous game in the series was on the PS platform primarily I doubted that Kojima was gonna turn round and exclude the entire fan base he has built up. Knowing MGS and Kojima the game will be built on PS3 and ported to 360. Also Kojima says he will be less involved with this game, but then again he was less involved with MGS3 than 1,2 or 4 and that was still a masterpiece.


I really don't think there is much more to say about uncharted and Tomb Raider, or in this case which one is better.

True snake eater was great, though I never understood the very long ladder towards the end:scratch: Anyway, I just don't see Raiden hiding in a card board box though:D

jayjay119
24th Jul 2009, 17:23
No well if you look at the promotional posters for MGS: Rising the tag line has changed. In previous game the tag line has been Metal Gear Solid: Tactical Espionage Action. For the next game its Metal Gear Solid Rising; Lighting Bolt Action.
http://www.megghy.com/immagini/Psx/FICHE%20M/COVERS/Metal_Gear_Solid_Pal.jpg

http://www.theozissou.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/metal-gear-solid-rising2.jpg

Which makes me thing the stealth in this game will be done using Riden's speed, rather than the slower gameplay of past games.

P.S; Sorry for off topic-ness (if thats a word)

Ants_27_
24th Jul 2009, 17:46
No well if you look at the promotional posters for MGS: Rising the tag line has changed. In previous game the tag line has been Metal Gear Solid: Tactical Espionage Action. For the next game its Metal Gear Solid Rising; Lighting Bolt Action.
http://www.megghy.com/immagini/Psx/FICHE%20M/COVERS/Metal_Gear_Solid_Pal.jpg

http://www.theozissou.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/metal-gear-solid-rising2.jpg

Which makes me thing the stealth in this game will be done using Riden's speed, rather than the slower gameplay of past games.

P.S; Sorry for off topic-ness (if thats a word)

Bold - Probably my fault, so sorry:nut:

Hmmm... I wonder why they kept the solid in MGS?

Lara should team up with Raiden looking for this and that when vamp attacks... again. Then Drake turns out to be Lara's brother:( Nah, that would be the story line that would put me off tomb raider and Uncharted, permanently. If tomb raider 9 manages to nail down a story as complicated and brilliant as the whole MGS one then I will... Actually I don't know what I'll do but I would sure be happy, though people would moan about watching like 60 minute cut scene:nut:

I was trying to keep it closely related to tomb raider and uncharted while talking about Mgs, I don't think it worked, not well anyway.

jayjay119
24th Jul 2009, 17:51
I was wondering why they left the 'Solid' in too. I know 'Solid' is a reference to 'Solid Snake' but maybe its also a reference to that storyline, and Rising seems to be a continuation of something from MGS4. Well I for one would like to see a good story in TR, for the next game I would like it to be a stand alone story rather than a trilogy. However if they do, do another continuous story, I hope they map the entire thing out from the beginning to avoid all the plotholes that were present in TRU!

Ants_27_
24th Jul 2009, 17:56
Its true about the plot-holes, I think I'd be happy with one story line for one game that ends in that one game. Like the old TR's.

Jonesy2
24th Jul 2009, 19:20
I really don't think there is much more to say about uncharted and Tomb Raider, or in this case which one is better.

Don't worry. It won't be too long before we can start comparing Tomb Raider to Dark Void. Yes, Lara should have a jetpack, why shouldn't she?

jayjay119
24th Jul 2009, 19:30
It actually wouldn't surprise me if she did have one at some point jonesy! I'm sure if they could have done, they would have given her on in the Navada section of TR3 lol.

Ants_27_
26th Jul 2009, 11:24
It actually wouldn't surprise me if she did have one at some point jonesy! I'm sure if they could have done, they would have given her on in the Navada section of TR3 lol.

That is something that we should probably expect lol.