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View Full Version : When was the Reaver made?



Linikratyo
3rd Jul 2009, 21:25
Okay so this is my question:
Was the Reaver made BEFORE or AFTER the Ancient wars?

You can see the Reaver in murals during the wars and though it is said that it was a vampiric weapon, but the Ancient didn't suck blood till after the hylden wars, so I'm confused here :nut:

dumah's wraith
3rd Jul 2009, 22:48
Seems to be whenever they made the pillars (lock and key) o just at the very end of the wars, after the curse, but before the Hylden were sealed seems most likely.

Somebody suggested a while ago that maybe the Ancients had blood drinking weapons, and the Hylden put some irony into the curse.

Escaton
4th Jul 2009, 11:14
The "Ancients" were known as Vampires even before they were cursed, so the connotation "vampiric" probably just means the blade was made by their race (i.e. dwarven blade or whatever), not that it could suck blood.

Ardeth Silvereni
4th Jul 2009, 19:23
According to the Soul Reaver 2 Timeline (http://www.thelostworlds.net/LoKSeries/The_Soul_Reaver_2_Timeline.html), the Reaver was forged after the genesis of the Pillars of Nosgoth, and after the formation of the Circle of Nine. As I see the raising of the Pillars as the definitive event that ended the Vampire/Hylden war, I would say that the Reaver was forged after the war ended.

However, just because the decisive blow had been struck, the actual ending of the war might have taken several hours or days (depending on how swiftly you think the Pillars banished the Hylden from Nosgoth). The Reaver may have been forged during this time period: the banishment of the Hyden had been initiated, but not completed. Or the Reaver could have been completed some time after. As it's the Key to the Pillars' Lock, I don't think there was much delay in forging the Reaver, although it's not certain. Maybe the Vampires didn't realise they needed a key until much later.

Either way, I agree with Escaton. At whatever time the Reaver was forged, 'Vampiric' magic just means the Vampire race infused it with their brand of magic. However, if the Reaver was forged some time after the Pillars were raised - once the Vampires had started to accept their blood-drinking nature - they may have developed their magic to include elements related to blood. 'Vampiric' magic could then also imply the blood-thirst that we normally associate with the term. If not, maybe the Hylden curse that turned them into blood-drinkers was ironic, as dumah's wraith said; maybe the Hylden had heard that the Vampires were trying to make a blood-draining weapon, and tailored their curse accordingly.

Janos says the Reaver was empowered to "drain our enemies of their precious lifeblood" and I know the murals suggest that the Reaver was forged to be used in the Vampire/Hylden war, but the timeline doesn't really support that. What if the murals it is seen in aren't depicting the war that passed, but rather the war to come, where the Vampire Champion would wield the Reaver against the Hylden?

The_Hylden
6th Jul 2009, 19:48
What if the murals it is seen in aren't depicting the war that passed, but rather the war to come, where the Vampire Champion would wield the Reaver against the Hylden?

That is the most probable conclusion. It's shown with the reverence of a holy icon, to be wielded by the vampires' champion, which all sort of comes to pass (just not how depicted).

Raziel'sRevenge
7th Jul 2009, 14:54
That is the most probable conclusion. It's shown with the reverence of a holy icon, to be wielded by the vampires' champion, which all sort of comes to pass (just not how depicted).

I must agree here. Otherwise why would there be murals of the two champion's fighting and yet one of them combined (to tell the truth I'm not sure what word to use here) to make the all-powerful being depicted just before your final battle with the Elder God? There's no way that was a picture of what had come to pass, the vampires didn't even know that the Reaver would ever gain the ability to devour souls!

Armord
1st Aug 2009, 03:34
According to Defiance, Vorador forged the Reaver. In the series, Vorador was the first human to recieve the "Dark Gift" of vampirism. Considering this the vampires had already been cursed by the Hylden with bloodthirst and sterility. The Hylden cursed the vampires as a final act of their war when they were vanished to the demon's dimension. SOOOOOOOOOOoooooo.... the Reaver was forged AFTER the Pillars were built and the Circle created, we are not sure how much time passed between the Hylden banishment and the creation of the Reaver.

The Vampires didn't actually knew what the Reaver was meant to be other than the lock of the Pillars. The Murals were depicting it as a holy weapon in their war. Yet, they expected a Messiah to wield the Reaver and end the war (or something similar), so it's likely that the representation of the Vampire Champion was also part of this messianic prophecy, not an actual event.
Regarding the fact that it's a soul devourer weapon, the Vampires built the Elemental and Spirit Forges of the Reaver, so they might not know it exactly, but I think it was all part of the same prophecy.

Vampmaster
1st Aug 2009, 12:57
I've always had this theory that Raziel was not the first person to have free will and that the last person who did, was the person who wrote the prophacy. If that wasn't the case, Kain wouldn't be such a threat to the EG because he doesn't have free will. Also there's no way the EG would allow weapons that could hurt him (ie. Raziel, the Soul Reaver and the forges) to be created in the first place unless it was preferable to allowing Kain to complete his destiny. (The destiny that squiddy DIDN'T choose for him.)

dumah's wraith
1st Aug 2009, 21:07
According to Defiance, Vorador forged the Reaver. In the series, Vorador was the first human to recieve the "Dark Gift" of vampirism. Considering this the vampires had already been cursed by the Hylden with bloodthirst and sterility. The Hylden cursed the vampires as a final act of their war when they were vanished to the demon's dimension. SOOOOOOOOOOoooooo.... the Reaver was forged AFTER the Pillars were built and the Circle created, we
are not sure how much time passed between the Hylden banishment and the creation of the Reaver.

The Vampires didn't actually knew what the Reaver was meant to be other than the lock of the Pillars. The Murals were depicting it as a holy weapon in their war. Yet, they expected a Messiah to wield the Reaver and end the war (or something similar), so it's likely that the representation of the Vampire Champion was also part of this messianic prophecy, not an actual event.
Regarding the fact that it's a soul devourer weapon, the Vampires built the Elemental and Spirit Forges of the Reaver, so they might not know it exactly, but I think it was all part of the same prophecy.

He might have forged the Reaver when still a human

Aranor
2nd Aug 2009, 15:16
He might have but how long do humans live? And if I remember correctly the image of him forging it was not of an old man.

The_Hylden
3rd Aug 2009, 02:01
Most, I always thought, found the murals to be depicting a human Vorador, who forges the Reaver. What does longevity have to do with forging a sword? It doesn't take years... Why would he be old while forging it? Not understanding.

FearGhoul
3rd Aug 2009, 06:18
Yeah, I always assumed that he was human when he made the Reaver, and when it was done, he was finally given the gift of Vampirism. And thanks for showing us the timeline there, Ardeth, I totally forgot about that, and how it looks like it resolves the whole question of whether or not Kain was in the Underworld during that scene in Blood Omen when Mortanius turns him into a Vampire. Still is pretty strange though, since the Spectral Realm never looks like that in any of the games after.
I'm now starting to think that the Reaver was never used in the war, and that the murals showing the Vampire with the Reaver really are supposed to be depicting the future war with the Hylden that they saw coming. I used to be not sure if it was actually used in the war or not, but what people have said in this topic have finally convinced me that it wasn't.

Aranor
3rd Aug 2009, 13:53
Most, I always thought, found the murals to be depicting a human Vorador, who forges the Reaver. What does longevity have to do with forging a sword? It doesn't take years... Why would he be old while forging it? Not understanding.


Just refining the timeframe of when it was done. If Vorador was turned after the completion of the reaver that does not mean he was turned after his part was done. Their magics they put into the blade could have taken ten years. It could have taken 5 minutes. If we ever get Voradors time o fbirth by the mirals we could say he was 25 years old or there abouts. If the pictures depicted him as an old man that time could have been 60 years.

My point on longevity was in the time scale that is Legacy of Kain, a human life compared to others is rather short. Thus the time in which the reaver was made, or at least the humans part could be refined to a small portion. When that portion of time exists is still unknown.